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I think people took things the wrong way, I didn't mean it as a slam to compare the two. Cassel is still playing and has over 100 TDs in his career.
I think the point is JG is going to (potentially) get more than $13m/per if Stafford signed for $25/m.
Exactly. The Broncos gave Brock 4 years, 18 per year. Pretty sure JG will warrant north of $20.Scooby1974 said:
How do you know he didn't?voiceofunreason said:
The Pats tried to extend JG for 6 months. They tried to get him on high end back up money. JG wants starter money and to actually play. There was no deal to be made. All they could do was franchise him, and they weren’t going to shell out $40 million next year on QB’s. And they wanted to save the franchise tag tomise on Butler if they have tovoiceofunreason said:
Of all the speculation about the circumstances surrounding his trade from NE... this one seems the most plausible to me. The pats are always ahead of the curve when it comes to personnel decisions, which makes this one happening at the eleventh hour seem strange.
Statorama suggested 6 years, 78mm as appropriate compensation for Garappolo, which equates to 13mm per year. In a market where Stafford gets 25 a year and Brock gets 18 a year, 13 a year as a target offer to sign Garappolo is probably not realistic.
Actually, he said he would have made the trade if a deal like that was in place. He may feel he's worth more money, but not more money plus the draft pick.
You're probably right, but I'd try to structure it like Mike Glennon's. Basically average $15M but provide an out after one year.
I would imagine any deal will have to include a significant amount MORE guaranteed money than whatever the franchise tag will cost, so a deal like that is pretty much not possible.
Exactly...why would he sign that...it is a fact of life that QBs get overpaid in the NFL...there are a 1,000 examples...if he gets to the open-market San Fran will regret it...
Do we have to get into this again? I don't have much free time so I'll just say my bit and leave it at that if that's ok. I've been out of the country for a few weeks... I just researched Jimmy Garappolo news for 5 minutes to reply, so I am definitely missing some things, but it looks like one of the scenarios I predicted played out:
Kind of like reaching for a guy you want in fantasy or dynasty- if he’s your guy then you go get your guy. Your premise makes sense, but I don’t think he will cost astronomically more to sign, and who cares if you pay him an extra 2mil a year, if the team is winning you’ll make it back. If he becomes the franchise qb they seem to think he can be then it’s a small price to pay, if you’re wrong it sets you back several years. If he would have come in and petermanned it up then they know they need to look elsewhere. He would have cost a lot without much tape to go off of, now they can be more comfortable with signing him long term.Do we have to get into this again? I don't have much free time so I'll just say my bit and leave it at that if that's ok. I've been out of the country for a few weeks... I just researched Jimmy Garappolo news for 5 minutes to reply, so I am definitely missing some things, but it looks like one of the scenarios I predicted played out:
Jimmy has played himself into a position where the 49ers now have to break the bank to keep him or drop $23.5M to franchise him for one year. Had they left him rotting on the bench in New England they (1) certainly could've signed him cheaper (would there be competition? Yes, but would an unknown get a larger contract than he'll be getting now? Undoubtedly not.), (2) would have a 2nd round pick, and (3) would be drafting from a higher spot. But hey, maybe this extra time in the system will be more valuable than that. Sure seems like he learned things pretty quickly so I'm guessing the extra time won't make a tangible difference. From what I read before, Shanahan really wanted him, so all they really bought with this large loss in draft capital (and cap space) was peace of mind that signing him will (probably) be the right move.
So in summary:
If they can't reach a long term contract due to this trade (and time for him to showcase his skills) and he signs elsewhere in 2019 (or 2020 if they franchise him twice), this trade will have hosed them (unless by some miracle they win a championship next year - if so, who cares about 2019?). If they can reach a long term deal with him - like they were going to in the offseason anyway - then all they did was flounder draft capital and pay a lot more for his contract for some peace of mind. So while I think signs are certainly pointing to SF bringing JG over for 2018 as a good move (something we wouldn't have known with any level of confidence until next year without the trade), I still think this trade was very poor strategy. I know you kept saying "there's going to be competition to sign him" but you can't pretend that SF wouldn't have won that bidding war with their cap space and you have to admit the result of that bidding war would've been a much cheaper contract that what he's going to demand now. I mean, thinking about it from a slightly different angle: we all know he's going to get paid more now than he was going to before he got showcased, and if SF can afford this contract, they could've afforded the lesser contract they would've paid him. And if they have to franchise him, that $23.5M for one year is probably only about $10M shy of what they would've had to guarantee him for a 4 year contract. I don't even want to think about the guaranteed money he's going to get now.
- 49ers trade early 2nd round pick
- 49ers win 4 meaningless games (maybe 5)
- 49ers lower draft position from top 2 to maybe outside top 10
- Jimmy G gains additional contract negotiation leverage; SF will now have to pay out the nose to keep him
- ownership gains peace of mind he's their QB
- Jimmy gains extra time with playbook that he seemingly didn't need
So yes, I agree he looks like a good fit. I never said he would bust or even took a stance of any kind on his fit or talent - I'm no scout or high level talent evaluator. I said this trade was a bad move strategically and I still think so.
Maybe you're right, but I think he could've been signed to a Brock-like contract (at the time, everyone knew Brock was an overpay - I think people would consider a Brock contract for JG to be fair). If they sign him for only ~$8M more than that, or even $15M more than that, then sure, not a ton of harm done in that regard. If they have to pay him $23.5M for one year and then sign him to a mega deal a year later, then yes, a ton of harm done.
Agreed - in addition, local sports radio was saying the day they got him that they’d essentially locked in at least a 24 million dollar franchise tag, which is why they were proponents of starting him to see what they had.
There aren’t enough words for how strongly I disagree with all of this.
I don't get it either. You typically have to invest draft capital and salary for a franchise QB. These teams are not paupers.
He's an unrestricted FA. They could have signed him without trading for him for LESS than they are going to have to pay now that he's looked legit. They were going to sign him anyway. They just paid a high 2nd, dropped down 8-12 spots in the draft, and increased his contract price to win some meaningless games. Not a smart trade.
Typically yes. But the 49ers didn't have to. They strangely chose to anyway, though.
No, you're not. Read my post before that one.
So much dumb in this post it’s laughable.Do we have to get into this again? I don't have much free time so I'll just say my bit and leave it at that if that's ok. I've been out of the country for a few weeks... I just researched Jimmy Garappolo news for 5 minutes to reply, so I am definitely missing some things, but it looks like one of the scenarios I predicted played out:
Jimmy has played himself into a position where the 49ers now have to break the bank to keep him or drop $23.5M to franchise him for one year. Had they left him rotting on the bench in New England they (1) certainly could've signed him cheaper (would there be competition? Yes, but would an unknown get a larger contract than he'll be getting now? Undoubtedly not.), (2) would have a 2nd round pick, and (3) would be drafting from a higher spot. But hey, maybe this extra time in the system will be more valuable than that. Sure seems like he learned things pretty quickly so I'm guessing the extra time won't make a tangible difference. From what I read before, Shanahan really wanted him, so all they really bought with this large loss in draft capital (and cap space) was peace of mind that signing him will (probably) be the right move.
So in summary:
If they can't reach a long term contract due to this trade (and time for him to showcase his skills) and he signs elsewhere in 2019 (or 2020 if they franchise him twice), this trade will have hosed them (unless by some miracle they win a championship next year - if so, who cares about 2019?). If they can reach a long term deal with him - like they were going to in the offseason anyway - then all they did was flounder draft capital and pay a lot more for his contract for some peace of mind. So while I think signs are certainly pointing to SF bringing JG over for 2018 as a good move (something we wouldn't have known with any level of confidence until next year without the trade), I still think this trade was very poor strategy. I know you kept saying "there's going to be competition to sign him" but you can't pretend that SF wouldn't have won that bidding war with their cap space and you have to admit the result of that bidding war would've been a much cheaper contract that what he's going to demand now. I mean, thinking about it from a slightly different angle: we all know he's going to get paid more now than he was going to before he got showcased, and if SF can afford this contract, they could've afforded the lesser contract they would've paid him. And if they have to franchise him, that $23.5M for one year is probably only about $10M shy of what they would've had to guarantee him for a 4 year contract. I don't even want to think about the guaranteed money he's going to get now.
- 49ers trade early 2nd round pick
- 49ers win 4 meaningless games (maybe 5)
- 49ers lower draft position from top 2 to maybe outside top 10
- Jimmy G gains additional contract negotiation leverage; SF will now have to pay out the nose to keep him
- ownership gains peace of mind he's their QB
- Jimmy gains extra time with playbook that he seemingly didn't need
So yes, I agree he looks like a good fit. I never said he would bust or even took a stance of any kind on his fit or talent - I'm no scout or high level talent evaluator. I said this trade was a bad move strategically and I still think so.
Was it to win meaningless games or the opportunity to evaluate JG and give him time and experience in their system?
Any WR who wants to earn a bigger paycheck should want to come to SF now.
The extra money they MAY need to pay him and dropping down 6-10 spots in the draft is more than offset by knowing the team has a franchise QB locked up.
Do we have to get into this again? I don't have much free time so I'll just say my bit and leave it at that if that's ok. I've been out of the country for a few weeks... I just researched Jimmy Garappolo news for 5 minutes to reply, so I am definitely missing some things, but it looks like one of the scenarios I predicted played out:
Jimmy has played himself into a position where the 49ers now have to break the bank to keep him or drop $23.5M to franchise him for one year. Had they left him rotting on the bench in New England they (1) certainly could've signed him cheaper (would there be competition? Yes, but would an unknown get a larger contract than he'll be getting now? Undoubtedly not.), (2) would have a 2nd round pick, and (3) would be drafting from a higher spot. But hey, maybe this extra time in the system will be more valuable than that. Sure seems like he learned things pretty quickly so I'm guessing the extra time won't make a tangible difference. From what I read before, Shanahan really wanted him, so all they really bought with this large loss in draft capital (and cap space) was peace of mind that signing him will (probably) be the right move.
So in summary:
If they can't reach a long term contract due to this trade (and time for him to showcase his skills) and he signs elsewhere in 2019 (or 2020 if they franchise him twice), this trade will have hosed them (unless by some miracle they win a championship next year - if so, who cares about 2019?). If they can reach a long term deal with him - like they were going to in the offseason anyway - then all they did was flounder draft capital and pay a lot more for his contract for some peace of mind. So while I think signs are certainly pointing to SF bringing JG over for 2018 as a good move (something we wouldn't have known with any level of confidence until next year without the trade), I still think this trade was very poor strategy. I know you kept saying "there's going to be competition to sign him" but you can't pretend that SF wouldn't have won that bidding war with their cap space and you have to admit the result of that bidding war would've been a much cheaper contract that what he's going to demand now. I mean, thinking about it from a slightly different angle: we all know he's going to get paid more now than he was going to before he got showcased, and if SF can afford this contract, they could've afforded the lesser contract they would've paid him. And if they have to franchise him, that $23.5M for one year is probably only about $10M shy of what they would've had to guarantee him for a 4 year contract. I don't even want to think about the guaranteed money he's going to get now.
- 49ers trade early 2nd round pick
- 49ers win 4 meaningless games (maybe 5)
- 49ers lower draft position from top 2 to maybe outside top 10
- Jimmy G gains additional contract negotiation leverage; SF will now have to pay out the nose to keep him
- ownership gains peace of mind he's their QB
- Jimmy gains extra time with playbook that he seemingly didn't need
So yes, I agree he looks like a good fit. I never said he would bust or even took a stance of any kind on his fit or talent - I'm no scout or high level talent evaluator. I said this trade was a bad move strategically and I still think so.
you don't even believe this, I think jet lag might have gotten the best of you. 
The 49ers made a great trade. They didn't how good JG was going to be but they made a move and it looks like a great decision so far. Dropping back in the draft is a small price to pay for finding your starting QB. That is a big problem that many teams will struggle with this offseason. SF can fill other holes.
Exactly.
None of that means diddly in comparison to the confidence that they have solved the position. Every single team in the league would give this up for the free preview and to make sure the position is solved. And if they don't sign him at all they'll get a 3rd compensatory pick back. Miniscule investment.
THis is a silly argument. What they lost in draft capital WAS ABSOLUTELY worth KNOWING they got their franchise QB. Even if they had managed to sign him in the off-season (which is a TERRIBLE assumption), they likely would have hedged a little with a pick or two.
