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Shooting at Texas church

648 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Or a vehicle attack, or a stabbing. The mode isn't the issue, it's the motive.

Oh shove it up your ###.

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6 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

 Man kills 26 people in a church, including children, and the people that want to see guns like these more closely regulated are "unsavory". 

What a screwed up nation we live in.

You must have skipped the part where I said to start performing more checks.

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4 minutes ago, Homer J Simpson said:

Oh shove it up your ###.

Classy.

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22 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Probably not be defenseless.

No, I think you have it wrong there buddy

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

Classy.

At times, it can be tough to not get emotional. Especially after yet another senseless slaughter of a mass of people.

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4 minutes ago, Kal El said:

You must have skipped the part where I said to start performing more checks.

You never said that.

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You know who has one of lowest homicide by firearm rates in the world? England, really makes you think.

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1 minute ago, DallasDMac said:

At times, it can be tough to not get emotional. Especially after yet another senseless slaughter of a mass of people.

Do you think I'm not upset? I am. Very much so. These are fellow believers senselessly slaughtered for no reason beyond being present with the shooter! Forgive me if I don't appreciate being told to shove my opinion up my ###. I figured my "Classy" response was simpler than telling him to #### off.

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1 minute ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

You never said that.

Go back and read. I clearly said we need a mental health care overhaul. While I admittedly didn't say so exactly, I would hope that the use of such checks was implied.

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9 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Classy.

Right back at ya.

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

Go back and read. I clearly said we need a mental health care overhaul. While I admittedly didn't say so exactly, I would hope that the use of such checks was implied.

Sorry, your implication must have gotten lost somewhere near your excellent point about how a vehicle or knife could have killed 26 people in a church in the span of 5 minutes.

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1 minute ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Sorry, your implication must have gotten lost somewhere near your excellent point about how a vehicle or knife could have killed 26 people in a church in the span of 5 minutes.

Please tell me how many people were killed by a truck in Nice a few years back. Then tell me how many schoolchildren were stabbed in China by a crazed man.

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1 hour ago, Otis said:

Just don’t even know what to say about these anymore. Awful. 

Also, you guys argue about stupid crap just hours after a bunch of children were shot. Get a grip. 

I guess we could move discussion over to one of twenty other threads about previous mass shootings.  But which one :shrug:

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3 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Please tell me how many people were killed by a truck in Nice a few years back. Then tell me how many schoolchildren were stabbed in China by a crazed man.

You are not very good at this

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2 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Please tell me how many people were killed by a truck in Nice a few years back. Then tell me how many schoolchildren were stabbed in China by a crazed man.

And how many people died since then in mass shootings here in the US? 

Why didn't this guy use a truck or a knife?

 

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

Please tell me how many people were killed by a truck in Nice a few years back. Then tell me how many schoolchildren were stabbed in China by a crazed man.

Approximately 85 and 25 IIRC.

Now what?

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Mass killings like this have become routine to the point where the shock factor is no longer there.  A couple years ago, this thread would have been 10 pages minimum by now.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Eephus said:

I guess we could move discussion over to one of twenty other threads about previous mass shootings.  But which one :shrug:

The mass shooting thread where the killer used a truck or a knife would seem most appropriate to this discussion. 

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7 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Approximately 85 and 25 IIRC.

Now what?

My point is no matter the choice of weapon, the motive is what matters.

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1 hour ago, pantherclub said:

That's just weird 

Not so much these days. My former church has a congregation of about 1500, lots of people roaming the campus at all times on Sunday. There is a uniformed police office in the parking lot who randomly walks the grounds. Plenty of former police in the congregation as well as a dedicated security team that watches over the kids area and offering as it is taken and counted. I'm sure a number of them carry as quite a few have concealed carry permits but I've never asked just assumed.

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Just now, Kal El said:

My point is no matter the choice of weapon, the motive is what matters.

While this sounds good at a high level, it ignores the detail that some tools are more efficient than other tools. Fewer weapons to chose from is a good thing. 

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4 minutes ago, Kal El said:

My point is no matter the choice of weapon, the motive is what matters.

Elementary, my dear Watson

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4 minutes ago, Kal El said:

My point is no matter the choice of weapon, the motive is what matters.

Of course the motive matters. So does the weapon. So does the availability of the weapon. So does the killer's access to the weapon. All of it matters. You seem to be trying to avoid gun control as an issue, and it's very much an issue.

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4 hours ago, Kal El said:

To be fair, a gun can't do anything on its own. I'm not saying they're right, but mental health in this country must be overhauled.

Having a gun changes peoples mentality.

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Just now, Politician Spock said:

While this sounds good at a high level, it ignores the detail that some tools are more efficient than other tools. Fewer weapons to chose from is a good thing. 

Very true. However, someone hellbent on killing will use whatever tools they have at their disposal. Besides, accounts say he shouldn't have gotten a gun due to his history. I have no issue keeping guns out of the hands of crooks. That's why we need better mental health checks as part of that process.

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1 minute ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Having a gun changes peoples mentality.

How so? Knowing I have mine means I'm better equipped to protect my family, but I can only speak for myself. 

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Link

Quote

A man who lives next to the church grabbed his own rifle and engaged the gunman, said Freeman Martin, the regional director of the Texas Department of Public Safety.

"The suspect dropped his rifle, which was a Ruger AR assault-type rifle and fled from the church," Martin said.

The man then chased the gunman, Martin said.

When police spotted the suspect's vehicle a short time later at the county line, they found the gunman inside -- dead of a bullet wound.

"At this time, we don't know if it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound or if he was shot by the local resident," Martin said.

 

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Just now, Kal El said:

Very true. However, someone hellbent on killing will use whatever tools they have at their disposal. Besides, accounts say he shouldn't have gotten a gun due to his history. I have no issue keeping guns out of the hands of crooks. That's why we need better mental health checks as part of that process.

Think about what you just said.... he shouldn't have gotten a gun due to his history.... but he obtained one anyway.

How does better mental health checks keep guns out of people hands that already shouldn't be able to get them?

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Just now, Politician Spock said:

Think about what you just said.... he shouldn't have gotten a gun due to his history.... but he obtained one anyway.

How does better mental health checks keep guns out of people hands that already shouldn't be able to get them?

Good question. To that end, I do not know. I also don't know how this person got theirs.

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

Very true. However, someone hellbent on killing will use whatever tools they have at their disposal. Besides, accounts say he shouldn't have gotten a gun due to his history. I have no issue keeping guns out of the hands of crooks. That's why we need better mental health checks as part of that process.

I agree that someone hellbent in killing will find a way, but I think it’s also true that ready access and the effectiveness offered by something like an AR15 can be a tipping point to someone who may not be hellbent necessarily but who goes over the edge when they have access to a weapon like that.

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Thoughts and feelings for those affected directky by this tragedy, those arguing about what happened should just count their blessings that they were not affected directly by this.

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3 minutes ago, Kal El said:

How so? Knowing I have mine means I'm better equipped to protect my family, but I can only speak for myself. 

So much more willing to have a confrontation. So much more "standing your ground" or "getting upset with a attitude".

I deal with high-profile private personal security and its undeniable the effect it has on people not only who carry a weapon, but even have ready access to it at their home, car or office.

Edited by BigSteelThrill

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14 minutes ago, Underachievers said:

Mass killings like this have become routine to the point where the shock factor is no longer there.  A couple years ago, this thread would have been 10 pages minimum by now.  

 

I'm not the only one who has noticed that.

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4 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Very true. However, someone hellbent on killing will use whatever tools they have at their disposal. Besides, accounts say he shouldn't have gotten a gun due to his history. I have no issue keeping guns out of the hands of crooks. That's why we need better mental health checks as part of that process.

A dishonorable discharge from the USAF is a federal offense that's the equivalent of a felony.  Does Texas require background checks for weapons purchases that would discover something like this?

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5 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Very true. However, someone hellbent on killing will use whatever tools they have at their disposal. Besides, accounts say he shouldn't have gotten a gun due to his history. I have no issue keeping guns out of the hands of crooks. That's why we need better mental health checks as part of that process.

Do you honestly think he would have killed 26 people with a truck or a knife? 

This is a gun issue...not a mental health issue. 

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2 minutes ago, T J said:

I agree that someone hellbent in killing will find a way, but I think it’s also true that ready access and the effectiveness offered by something like an AR15 can be a tipping point to someone who may not be hellbent necessarily but who goes over the edge when they have access to a weapon like that.

Without a doubt.

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5 minutes ago, Kal El said:

How so? Knowing I have mine means I'm better equipped to protect my family, but I can only speak for myself. 

Well, it makes you nuts for gun rights that can't see how much they are ####### up this country. You put on your blinders.

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Just now, eoMMan said:

Do you honestly think he would have killed 26 people with a truck or a knife? 

This is a gun issue...not a mental health issue. 

Easily. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 with a truck. This guy have easily loaded enough explosives into a truck and sent it towards the church.

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3 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Easily. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 with a truck. This guy have easily loaded enough explosives into a truck and sent it towards the church.

This again?

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