Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
JAX dst fake punt TD (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rickyg
- Start date
grateful zed
Footballguy
you use yahoo? 
Yeah old school league since 1999.you use yahoo?
Eta - actually like yahoo. Except for this. Why don’t you like it? It crushes MFL.
Last edited by a moderator:
Such bs. The offense wasn’t even on the field. Special teams was. It seems so cut and dry to me.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
According to NFL policy, this play was not considered to be a "Special Teams" play. It was just a regular offensive play, but with different personnel on the field.
And unfortunately, most fantasy leagues are hung up on the idea that your D/ST should not get points unless the NFL gives you permission to.
It's really a backwards way of thinking. It's like back in the old days of fantasy football, when RBs weren't allowed to get credit for receiving yards. Or when passing TDs counted as 3 points for the passer and 3 points for the receiver (after all, it would be SACRILEGE to award more fantasy points than real points! The horror!)
So, you're not going to get any points unless you happened to have started Corey Grant at RB.
And unfortunately, most fantasy leagues are hung up on the idea that your D/ST should not get points unless the NFL gives you permission to.
It's really a backwards way of thinking. It's like back in the old days of fantasy football, when RBs weren't allowed to get credit for receiving yards. Or when passing TDs counted as 3 points for the passer and 3 points for the receiver (after all, it would be SACRILEGE to award more fantasy points than real points! The horror!)
So, you're not going to get any points unless you happened to have started Corey Grant at RB.
[scooter]
Footballguy
No. The NFL considers all kick returns to be "Special Teams". Anytime the ball is kicked (and it crosses the LOS), it's a Special Teams play.
Most leagues are not set up to recognize this, because most leagues are dumb.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
As stated above until the ball is kicked it isn't a special team play, it is cut and dry to you because you are grasping for points.
RenegadeGM
Footballguy
Just because the team lines up in punt formation doesn't mean it is a special teams play. It's an offensive rushing TD. Not sure why this is so complicated.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
grateful zed
Footballguy
Some very bitter people on here, man. All I️ was saying is that I️ think it’s bs that that wouldn’t be a DST td. And I️ maintain that. I️ don’t care what the mfl rules are. Special teams were on the field and special team players scored the td. I️ understand the interpretation that it was a 4th down play and thus was registered as a rushing td.
Philosophically I️ disagree with it. No need to chastise me about my league or how I’m chasing pts. Jeez.
Eta - iPhone autocorrect glitch is wrecking the posts.
Philosophically I️ disagree with it. No need to chastise me about my league or how I’m chasing pts. Jeez.
Eta - iPhone autocorrect glitch is wrecking the posts.
Last edited by a moderator:
Wrigley
Footballguy
buck naked
Footballguy
It's always been this way. For years. Every time a similar play happens, somebody thinks it should be a special teams play. It isn't.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
So if the Steelers have Roethlisberger pooch punt on 3rd-and-forever, that shouldn't count as a special teams play because the offense was on the field? What about when the Cards/Colts used to use punter Tom Tupa as a QB? Should all of his rushing and passing stats have counted for their DSTs?rickyg said:
Judge the play based on what happened, not the personnel on the field. And what happened is they handed off (or was it direct snapped?) to Grant and he ran for a TD.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This is discussed every year. It's an offensive play - PERIOD.rickyg said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
seems you're the most bitter person in the thread to be honest.rickyg said:
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Honest question.
If a team goes to punt or kick a field goal and it's a bad snap and the kicker falls on it (it's never kicked). How is that scored?
Is that a sack for the defense? It's not a special teams blocked kick.
It is not a sack because the play was not a pass play. The kicker would be charged with negative rushing yards for the loss on the play.
ATB
Footballguy
TBF, he has a point though. The reason the play even works to begin with is because the defense thinks it is a special teams play. The punting unit is on the field (thus it is technically, for intents and purposes, a special teams play). Rather than punt the ball, the special teams unit chooses to run a trick play and either run or throw the ball for the first down, resulting in a freak instance of a resulting TD.msudaisy26 said:
How that doesn't count as a special teams play is beyond me. It's only because the NFL doesn't define it that way, but for everyone watching the game and even the other team defending the play... it is a special teams play.
CalBear
Footballguy
Following up: Garo Yepremian's attempted throw after kicking the ball was a special teams play. It counts as a blocked kick and a fumble, returned for TD by the ST. If he had successfully managed to throw it to a Dolphin, they would have been penalized for an illegal forward pass, because while he can recover it and advance the ball, he can't throw it because it's now a special teams play.
If they had direct snapped to Yepremian and he tried the same thing, it would have been scored as an INT returned for TD by the defense. And if your league penalizes for INTs and you started Yepremian, he would have gotten -2 points.
Last edited by a moderator:
Insein
Footballguy
Defensive TD which would be a moot point as Defense and ST are usually combined.
What makes special teams special is changing of possession via kick.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
How is it a defensive TD when you're on offense kicking it? If the other team didn't recover it you're technically still on offense, right?
Insein
Footballguy
I misread what you said. I thought you said a blocked kick and the blockers scored.
In the extemely unusual case where a blocked kick was picked up by the kicking team and advanced for a TD, that would mean the ball had not travelled past the line of scrimmage. I'm sure there are specific rules outlining this but if the ball doesn't cross the line of scrimmage in the air via kick, it's not yet a special teams play. It's an offensive play. Offensive TD for the individual lucky enough to grab it and run for the score. Much like a fumbled ball scooped for a score.
ATB
Footballguy
You know what I'm saying though. I even acknowledged that the NFL defines it this way. But that's not the discussion, here. It's whether the NFL should define it this way, because again... for everyone but the dictionary that play was a special teams play. Special teams were on the field. The punter was on the field... and that's the only reason a trick play like that works... because everyone assumes it is a punt (which is the special teams unit).
Actually the bad snap would be scored as a fumble (aborted) on the center, and the kicker falling on it would get the recovery. He would only lose yardage if he ran after scooping up the bad snap.
Now if the kicker GETS the snap, runs around and gets tackled, then it would be a negative rush or sack depending on whether or not he was judged to be attempting to pass.
So if he just fell on it who does the loss of yards get charged to? Team rushing? I always thought the person that recovered the fumble would get the loss of yardage charged to them.
They go the same place that losing yards on a fumble go. If your RB rushes six gets hit, the ball pops out, and is recovered four yards behind where the RB was hit, the RB gets the six rush yards and the lost fumble. No one gets credit for the four yards it moved while unpossessed. This usually shows up in live scoring as "yardage changed on change of possession" or some such.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I saw a list of football rules for a high school association (so I am guessing it would be similar in the NFL):
"Fumble – Bad Handoff
A ball carrier is charged with a rushing attempt when he possesses a ball handed him by the quarterback or another back. If he fumbles, the yards (plus or minus) are measured from the line of scrimmage to the point of recovery (by him, a teammate or an opponent) Remember for any fumble the player must have possessed the ball. On a snap for a field goal or a punt, if the snapper’s action causes the ball to bounce past or over the punter’s head, and the punter recovers behind the line of scrimmage, the fumble is charged to the snapper and loss of yards on the play are team yards lost. If the punter picks up the bad snap and does not make it back to the line of scrimmage the lost yards is a team loss. If he goes beyond the line of scrimmage he is given a rush and the yards gained from the line of scrimmage.
Ex. 1 – Back 22 takes a handoff and runs 15 yards and fumbles. A teammate or opponent recovers 5 yards in advance but does not advance. Credit the back with a rush and a 20-yard gain and a fumble recovery for the individual who recovered. If the player who recovers the fumble advances the original ball carrier gets the yards to the point of recovery; the recovering player gets a fumble recovery and the return yards from the point of the recovery to where his run ends.
Ex. 2 – Back 25 takes the handoff at the five-yard line, runs to the one where he fumbles the ball into the end zone. If he recovers credit him with the score and a 5-yard run. If a teammate or opponent recovers – give the back a 5 yard run and (a) if a teammate recovers give him the recovery and the points of the score; or (b) if an opponent recovers give him the fumble recovery and if he downs the recovered ball – no yards – it is a touchback, however if the opponent advances the ball from the end zone, credit him with a recovery and measure his return yards from the goal line. If a teammate recovers, credit him with a fumble recovery and the score but no yards.
Ex 3 – Back 22 tries to take a handoff from the QB but the exchange is not completed and the ball is fumbled one yard behind the line of scrimmage. The fumble normally is given to the quarterback – charge him with a rush and positive or negative yards at the point of recovery."
I'm 100% sure this one is different in the NFL. Just look at any of the crazy fumblerooski multilateral games. The total yardage of the play is not assigned to tye first guy to carry. He gets yards to the point of his fumble or lateral, tyen the next guy gets yards till his, etc.
Okay, it was a special teams play. I don’t think I’ve seen a set of league rules under which that would matter.
Scoring systems usually award points according to the type of score that occurred.
Rushing TDs are credited to the runner. Passing TDs are credited to the passer. Receiving TDs are credited to the receiver. Made field goals are credited to the kicker.
Return TDs are credited to the D/ST (and in some scoring systems to the individual returner as well). That’s the only kind of touchdown that the D/ST gets credit for.
The touchdown being discussed in this thread was a rushing TD, not a return TD, so credit goes to the runner, not the D/ST.
Personnel doesn’t matter. When a wide receiver throws a touchdown pass on a trick play, he gets credit for a passing TD (and the quarterback doesn’t). When the up back rushes for a touchdown on a fake punt, he gets credit for a rushing TD (and the D/ST doesn’t). It’s the the type of score that matters, not the position or personnel group of the person who scored it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
For this one, it depends on the time of the game. Inside two minutes of each half I believe the only offensive player that can advance the ball on the fumble is the ball carrier. Not sure what happens for accounting purposes the rest of the time.
Pretty sure additional yardage from forward fumbles are still not credited to the fumbling player.
The flap a few years back about offensive-fumble recovery touchdowns illustrated that. Guy fumbles into the endzone at the one, teammate recovers. Teammate gets a recovery TD, runner gets yardage to the 1 only.
