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Trump and the 16 women

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10 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

not believable IMO

Sounds very believable to me. That's the exact method that Trump described to Billy Bush.

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Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

At what mark in that video does Carroll say that?

Should be "...rape is sexy." 

But it was still really freaking weird.

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Just now, parasaurolophus said:

Should be "...rape is sexy." 

But it was still really freaking weird.

Yes, that was odd

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Should be "...rape is sexy." 

But it was still really freaking weird.

I think in watching that (the whole interview, not a mid-sentence truncation) it occurs to me that this is the same problem that Paula Jones and Broaderick and maybe others had, only flip. - Jones and Broaderick were basically Arkansas women who sounded hickish and really basically lower-middle class. I think there were certain ears to whom that sounded let's say cheap or dumb at the time to I dunno let's say the ears of the elite in the media and in political circles (Apologies for fumbling with that but I think you get my point). I think here we have a woman who is basically an intellectual - wrote for SNL, wrote for Elle, attended Uptown Manhattan parties with Donald Trump types - and her rationalizations are going to sound weird to many ears in middle and suburban or rural America. However, I find her more than believable. I have space in my head for believing both Paula Jones and Jean Carroll.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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6 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Sounds very believable to me. That's the exact method that Trump described to Billy Bush.

You must have missed where donald dismissed this by saying she isn't his type. CASE CLOSED.

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3 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

"Most people think of rape as being sexy." She's not saying "rape is sexy." She's making a social commentary. She's a Manhattan intellectual trying to make an esoteric, ivory tower point in the middle of a serious conversation, it certainly doesn't affect her credibility IMO.

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1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

"Most people think of rape as being sexy." She's not saying "rape is sexy." She's making a social commentary. She's a Manhattan intellectual trying to make an esoteric, ivory tower point in the middle of a serious conversation, it certainly doesn't affect her credibility IMO.

Don’t you find her mindset on rape weird or odd , no? It certainly seems Anderson Cooper is taken aback by it. 

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10 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

“Rape as being sexy”

You're missing whole sentences there, amigo.

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4 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Don’t you find her mindset on rape weird or odd , no? It certainly seems Anderson Cooper is taken aback by it. 

She's saying that people in American society have a weird mindset. She isn't describing her own. Check out late night cable TV some time to see how rape scenes are characterized, our culture is full of it.

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8 minutes ago, HellToupee said:
11 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

"Most people think of rape as being sexy." She's not saying "rape is sexy." She's making a social commentary. She's a Manhattan intellectual trying to make an esoteric, ivory tower point in the middle of a serious conversation, it certainly doesn't affect her credibility IMO.

Don’t you find her mindset on rape weird or odd , no? It certainly seems Anderson Cooper is taken aback by it. 

I don't find it odd that she believes that the majority of people think that rape is sexual.

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22 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

"Most people think of rape as being sexy." She's not saying "rape is sexy." She's making a social commentary. She's a Manhattan intellectual trying to make an esoteric, ivory tower point in the middle of a serious conversation, it certainly doesn't affect her credibility IMO.

So what you're say is a Rupert Murdoch, Fox News media arm, is trying to smear the message and a woman that claims to have been raped?  I don't know. Sounds pretty out there. 

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39 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Don’t you find her mindset on rape weird or odd , no? It certainly seems Anderson Cooper is taken aback by it. 

I assume you didn’t watch Game of Thrones.  Or any of the other hundreds of tv shows and movies where rape is depicted as sexy. 

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45 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

I don't find it odd that she believes that the majority of people think that rape is sexual.

That isnt what she said. 

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23 minutes ago, Herb said:

Oh come on. You're an intelligent dude, Ren. I like reading most of your posts, despite your dogged insistence on denial of Russian involvement in our elections, among other things. You and I agree on quite a lot outside of the foibles of the current news cycle.

But the bolded is absurd, IMO. There are a LOT of Anti-Trumpers here (myself included) that are very much NOT deferential to any part of the Democratic party, specifically the "corporate wing" of it. Like a domestic violence victim, we've been driven into the arms of the Democratic party by the abusive ####### that is the presently- constituted GOP.

I left the Presidential portion of my 2016 ballot blank because I hated Trump as a candidate but strongly disliked Hillary as well. Trump has proven to be such an absolute disaster, however, that I barely care who the Dem nominee will be (although hopefully not Biden). I know they'll be an improvement, so they have my vote, despite the fact that prior to Trump, the functionality and corruption of the two parties were barely distinguishable from each other and completely deserving of the scorn any of us felt toward them.

Thanks Herb, always thought of you as a moral and considered person on here.

I think it'd only be an improvement in terms of superficial fluff like presidential decorum.  But I'm actually glad Trump made a mockery of the office, so I differ from most people in that regard.  I'm more offended by the tangible actions they take than the words they say.  Trump is a lying conman?  Well no ####.  Every president in my lifetime was a lying conman.  That's the whole point of the job is to be a lying conman.  Lie about the wars, lie about helping the working class, lie about endless corruption in Washington, on and on, forever.  

But I phrased it that way for a reason- I'm talking about people that are completely obsessed with Trump.  That Trump is some nightmare we can all wake up from, if only we could get someone that talks nice and does the West Wing posturing again.  But those days are over.  Trump is a direct result of the policies of past administrations.  The conditions that led to his rise were decades in the making.  They are not resisting Trump by blindly supporting Democrats with no condition, because Democrats serve the same donors that Trump does.  They're not helping us by aligning with neverTrump neocons and attacking him from the right.  Thinking like this only gets us an even worse and more effective Trump the next time they inevitably fail again.  

Yes, it's probably not fair to paint the most emotionally charged opponents of his as low information voters.  But this late night antiTrump culture/ Mueller fetishizing / endless 24/7 Trump newscycle reality show, whatever you want to call it, reeks of privilege to me.  Maybe we can put some Mueller Reports in the water in Flint so that people can drink the water again.  Maybe we can airdrop some Mueller Reports over Yemen and these typhoid-inflicted, wartorn children can eat that.  Maybe we can commission Raytheon and Lockheed Martin to print some Mueller Reports so the US will stop doing war crimes.  Maybe then this sideshow distraction will stop eating up time and energy from stuff that actually matters.  It's such a joke.  

The media class, political class, intelligence complex, they've effectively turned Trump into a windfall for ratings and political capital.  They know people aren't looking at the system on a large scale when they are made to focus their hatred on Trump.  These institutions have avoided meaningful introspection for a very simple and powerserving reason.  Because to do so would be to admit their own failures in creating a system (which they profited immensely off of) where President Trump became possible.  It's like people can only resist him on the corporate state's terms. 

I'm not sure I'm explaining this well, and it feels like I've made this post several times before.  But it's disheartening that this monomaniacal fixation on Trump is still so dominant in Dem (and some Republican) circles.  Because if they do not understand those things, that our problems are the byproduct of a gross bipartisan system rather than one party and one president, they will never get fixed.  

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2 hours ago, Misfit said:

I really don't understand how 30% of the population doesn't believe any sexual assault allegations against a guy who has repeatedly bragged about being a sexual predator.

They believe it.

But they’re looking for an excuse not to because he’s on their team. 

I know how this goes. I’m guilty of it. Not politically, but I’ve been a huge fan of two athletes who were credibly accused of rape: Ben Roesthlisberger and Kobe Bryant. I didn’t know if either guy was guilty (still don’t) and frankly I wasn’t looking to find out. If there had been a videotape of either one assaulting some girl that would have been the end of my support, but short of that I was willing to stay a fan- because these guys were important to my teams! 

So I get it. I understand how these guys can insist that Trump is Innocent. I wouldn’t call it an  admirable attitude though. 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

That Trump is some nightmare we can all wake up from, if only we could get someone that talks nice and does the West Wing posturing again.  But those days are over.  Trump is a direct result of the policies of past administrations.  The conditions that led to his rise were decades in the making. 

I’m sorry but this actually reads like a paean to Trump. I’m also struck how people turn off their values for him. We’re discussing how Trump treats women. I’d imagine you’re rather revulsed by such behavior, and actually I’m sure you are. But as I understand it I’m supposed to turn that value system that I *share with you *off because (assumably) ‘the system is corrupt’? No, sorry you change things by taking a stand. That doesn’t mean you have to put a Biden sticker on your car but it’s a simple thing to decry corruption in governance when you see it. 

I just want you to know I’m not accusing you of something here (seriously, cheers) I’m just speaking as someone who’s grown up in a culture of corrupt government. Cynicism and apathy begets worse behavior. I’m Just telling you this from experience.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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Guess who?

Name one sports team, university, publicly-held company, etc. that would accept a person like this as their standard bearer?

8:38 AM · Oct 8, 2016 ·

"The president has denied it. I have no reason to .— you know, no. He's denied it and that's all I needed to hear."

11:15 AM · Jun 25, 2019

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24 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

"The president has denied it. I have no reason to .— you know, no. He's denied it and that's all I needed to hear."

Seems consistent.

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4 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

"Most people think of rape as being sexy." She's not saying "rape is sexy." She's making a social commentary. She's a Manhattan intellectual trying to make an esoteric, ivory tower point in the middle of a serious conversation, it certainly doesn't affect her credibility IMO.

Sure, but you have to admit it’s weird.  That’s my point - I’m not using it to discredit her, I’m just saying it’s really weird.  To me at least.

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7 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Sure, but you have to admit it’s weird.  That’s my point - I’m not using it to discredit her, I’m just saying it’s really weird.  To me at least.

I wish it was to me. 

If you call it rape very few people think of it as sexy. 

But the actions that constitute rape? Oh, absolutely. The majority of media of all types screams at us all day that it’s sexy. All the time. And it’s therefore ingrained in us that it is. 

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27 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Sure, but you have to admit it’s weird.  That’s my point - I’m not using it to discredit her, I’m just saying it’s really weird.  To me at least.

I agree it comes across as weird. HT was right in that Cooper cuts away pretty quickly. There are other ‘weird’ aspects like the whole backstory of what Trump was doing in the Bergdorff’s ladies section, and Caroll sort of taunting him. 

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21 minutes ago, Rove! said:

Julie Swetnick says :hey: 

You are in the wrong thread.  Swetnick was a Kavanaugh accuser, not Trump.

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33 minutes ago, Rove! said:

Julie Swetnick says :hey: 

What would possibly cause you to post this? 

Why not just post “I am a Trump supporter; therefore I have to find a way to slam this current accuser and make her out to be a sleazy liar!” ? 

That would be more honest. 

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28 minutes ago, timschochet said:

What would possibly cause you to post this? 

To get reactions.  Don't give them.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

What would possibly cause you to post this? 

 

Because Judy Munro-Leighton is a less familiar reference?

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6 hours ago, Misfit said:

I agree with you on a number of issues, but you come across as pessimistic about everything.  Serious questions for you: What do you want in a POTUS?  Are there any people currently running for office that you would be proud to vote for?

Well, I'm an anarchist- it's not something they really give you an option to vote for.  But I like Mike Gravel a lot.  I actually registered as a Democrat (Independent whole life prior) just to vote for him in the primaries.  But KY's Democratic party doesn't let you participate in the primary if you changed designation after December 2018.  Cool

I don't agree with him on economic stuff really.  But if someone's talking about sending Henry Kissinger to the Hague I'm with them 100%.  

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I don’t believe any Trump supporter in this forum genuinely believes that every single one of these women is lying about the sexual assault/rape allegations against Trump.  

They just overlook it.   

 

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6 hours ago, zoonation said:

I don’t believe any Trump supporter in this forum genuinely believes that every single one of these women is lying about the sexual assault/rape allegations against Trump.  

They just overlook it.   

 

Look, all rich guys with power do it -- it's part of being an alpha male.  Besides, Trump has since found God and learned from his past.  He is a good guy now. 

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8 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Look, all rich guys with power do it -- it's part of being an alpha male.  Besides, Trump has since found God and learned from his past.  He is a good guy now. 

Also, rich and powerful guys get unjustly accused of sex crimes all the time because they're rich and powerful. I long for a nation where rich and powerful guys can get a fair shake.

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I just can’t get past that answer “She’s not my type.” Every woman I know that hears that cringes- including my step-mother in law, who has been a Trump supporter. She thinks he’s a pig though. 

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33 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Look, all rich guys with power do it -- it's part of being an alpha male.  Besides, Trump has since found God and learned from his past.  He is a good guy now. 

As long as Trump supporters feel they are benefiting from him being President, like their 401k, then they will continue to ignore everything he does.  It's going to take a lot for them to change their minds, just look at the farmers who continue to support him.

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On 6/25/2019 at 1:02 PM, Widbil83 said:

Come on!  I just read about this and the video is 100 times more cringeworthy than I ever dreamed. :lmao:  Anderson Cooper couldn’t get to break fast enough. Surprised CNN actually aired this to be honest.  

Have another drink Jean Carroll, sheesh. Why would they ever air that, oh it's CNN I forgot.

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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

I just can’t get past that answer “She’s not my type.” Every woman I know that hears that cringes- including my step-mother in law, who has been a Trump supporter. She thinks he’s a pig though. 

I kind of find the criticism of this comment strange. I cant figure out why it matters at all. The only way you find that comment offensive is if you believe he raped her. If you believe that, then such a comment seems like the last thing that you should be caring about. It basically suggests that had he given a different answer you would find what he did less awful. 

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

I kind of find the criticism of this comment strange. I cant figure out why it matters at all. The only way you find that comment offensive is if you believe he raped her. If you believe that, then such a comment seems like the last thing that you should be caring about. It basically suggests that had he given a different answer you would find what he did less awful. 

He's making light of the situation with that remark.   Either that or he is implying that he only rapes women that are his type.  Either way it is a callous thing to say, which is par for the course with the guy.

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4 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I kind of find the criticism of this comment strange. I cant figure out why it matters at all. The only way you find that comment offensive is if you believe he raped her. If you believe that, then such a comment seems like the last thing that you should be caring about. It basically suggests that had he given a different answer you would find what he did less awful. 

The answer is offensive for several reasons: first because it implies that rape and sex are the same. Second because it suggests that had he found her attractive then he would have raped her and that’s supposed to be OK. Third because it objectifies women. 

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4 hours ago, irish eyes said:

Have another drink Jean Carroll, sheesh. Why would they ever air that, oh it's CNN I forgot.

CNN has to give the viewers their hourly dose of Trump outrage, but this is what happens when you don’t vet your stories and will just air anything.   

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18 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I kind of find the criticism of this comment strange. I cant figure out why it matters at all. The only way you find that comment offensive is if you believe he raped her. If you believe that, then such a comment seems like the last thing that you should be caring about. It basically suggests that had he given a different answer you would find what he did less awful. 

It registers utter contempt for the alleged victim. You have to have a complete lack of empathy to say something like this.

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20 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I kind of find the criticism of this comment strange. I cant figure out why it matters at all. The only way you find that comment offensive is if you believe he raped her. If you believe that, then such a comment seems like the last thing that you should be caring about. It basically suggests that had he given a different answer you would find what he did less awful. 

It’s totally callous about a brutal act and also an obvious cheap lie.

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Even if you love the guy it should be pretty simple to figure why the remark was inappropriate.

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27 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:
4 hours ago, timschochet said:

I just can’t get past that answer “She’s not my type.” Every woman I know that hears that cringes- including my step-mother in law, who has been a Trump supporter. She thinks he’s a pig though. 

I kind of find the criticism of this comment strange. I cant figure out why it matters at all.

Let me try to illustrate why it matters with these two sample exchanges:

Reporter: Did you rape that woman?
Regular Person: No! I would never rape anyone!

Reporter: Did you rape that woman?
Trump: No. She's not my type.

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Just now, timschochet said:

The answer is offensive for several reasons: first because it implies that rape and sex are the same. Second because it suggests that had he found her attractive then he would have raped her and that’s supposed to be OK. Third because it objectifies women. 

This isn't something I want to spend too much time on. I just found your comments weird because like I said it implies that had he said something more polite you would not be as mad about the situation. You flat out said you can't get past what he said, and you have made at least one other post about it as well. That is really strange to me. Literally the first thing that popped in my head was...oh so if he was a real nice guy when asked about it you would be cool with it? I know that isn't true, it is just how it read to me. Take it however you want, I am moving along and I am definitely not in anyway trying to say you are only upset because of what he said. 

 

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