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Who has the Right-of-Way? (1 Viewer)

Who has the Right of Way?

  • Car A - arriving first, turning left

    Votes: 14 38.9%

  • Car B - arriving second, turning right

    Votes: 21 58.3%

  • Whomever has the bigger car

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • Total voters
    36
S

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
So, two cars approach an intersection from opposite directions on side streets.  The cross-road is a major road.  The intersection is a 2-way stop for the side streets.

Car A gets to the intersection first, and is turning left - northbound.  Car B gets to the intersection second, and is turning right - northbound - i.e. they are both turning onto the major road, traveling in the same direction.

Car A has to wait 15-20 seconds for traffic to clear to safely make the left turn.  Car B has to wait 10-15 seconds for traffic to clear to safely make the right turn.  Both cars have come to a complete stop, and were at the intersection for a period of time before going.

When traffic clears on the cross-road - who has the right-of-way?  Car A, who got to the intersection first, or Car B, who is making the right turn?

 
I don’t know the correct answer but my answer is Car A.  I would treat it the same way I would a four-way stop for order.  The difference here is it’s infrequent in that situation that Car B won’t be able to get moving first so in practice I think Car B will go first the majority of the time.

 
AAABatteries said:
I don’t know the correct answer but my answer is Car A.  I would treat it the same way I would a four-way stop for order.  The difference here is it’s infrequent in that situation that Car B won’t be able to get moving first so in practice I think Car B will go first the majority of the time.
Click to expand...
I think its Car B - I think the car turning left has to yield to all traffic in the intersection, while the car turning right has to yield to cross-traffic, or cars already in the intersection.

:shrug:

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think its Car B - I think the car turning left has to yield to all traffic in the intersection, while the car turning right has to yield to cross-traffic, or cars already in the intersection.

:shrug:
Click to expand...
Sure if Car B has a gap to turn right that isn’t a gap for Car A to turn left. What if a gap opens up at the same time for both?  Then the car that got to the intersection first has right of way. 

 
This is California:

California Vehicle Code Section 21801(a) "The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left or complete a u-turn upon a highway or turn left into public or private property or alley shall yield the right of way to all vehicles approaching from the opposite direction which are close enough to constitute a hazard at any time during the turning movement and shall continue to yield the right of way to the approaching vehicles until the left or u-tun can be made with reasonable safety"

 
mr roboto said:
Sure if Car B has a gap to turn right that isn’t a gap for Car A to turn left. What if a gap opens up at the same time for both?  Then the car that got to the intersection first has right of way. 
Click to expand...
I am fairly certain that if Car B were traveling straight across the intersection - it would definitely have the right of way in this scenario.

 
This is NJ

At a multi-way stop or stop intersection, a motorist
must yield to the motorist on the right if both motorists get there at the same time.
A motorist should also yield to another motorist already stopped at the intersection.

:shrug:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is Ohio:

(A) The operator of a vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right of way to any vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley approaching from the opposite direction, whenever the approaching vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley is within the intersection or so close to the intersection, alley, private road, or driveway as to constitute an immediate hazard.

Car turning right would have to be considered "so close to the intersection as to constitute an immediate hazard".

 
These statutes are written without reference to a controlled intersection (ie stop sign). 

For a normal left turn - yes you yield to all other traffic (including someone turning right onto the road your turning left onto). 

If you both have a stop sign it’s whoever arrived to that stop sign first. 

 
mr roboto said:
Not if the other traffic also has a stop sign. Then you take turns. Otherwise turning left at s busy 4 way stop would be nearly impossible. 
Click to expand...
4-way stops have specific rules on right of ways - where you yield to cars who are at the intersection first, and when cars approach at the same time, you yield to cars on the right.

But, those rules are limited to 4-way stops - which this was not.

 
Car B.  Once Car A can't make use of it's right of way (it got there first), it's OK for Car B to go (because Car A can't).

 
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Sinn Fein said:
4-way stops have specific rules on right of ways - where you yield to cars who are at the intersection first, and when cars approach at the same time, you yield to cars on the right.

But, those rules are limited to 4-way stops - which this was not.
Click to expand...
So in a scenario where you are waiting to turn left onto a busier roadway that has no stop sign and there are other cars approaching the intersection from the other side (also with a stop sign), you would be content to let the gaps go by over and over so long as there were other cars across from you going straight or turning right?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wow.  Everyone should know this.  When you are turning left, you have to yield to all cars coming from the opposite way, whether they go straight or turn right.

The only exception is if there is a specific right turn lane with a yield sign.

 
rick6668 said:
Car turning left must yield.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/traffic_talk_who_has_the_right.html
Click to expand...
Church said the reason this statute causes confusion is because it does not specifically reference stop signs (Side note: "Traffic signals" are lights, whereas stop signs are "traffic control devices").

And just to be clear, Church points out that it's not technically correct to say anyone has the "right of way" in this situation.

"Even though we talk about who has the right of way, I even do it, the Michigan Vehicle Code actually says who YIELDS the right of way," Church said. "Perhaps a bit esoteric, but that is how the statute is worded."

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Car B should be gone by the time traffic "clears" in the scenario above.  
Click to expand...
Car B was not "gone" in the scenario above...

Car B waited for traffic to clear the intersection, and began making the right turn, when Car A accelerated quickly into the left turn.  Car B, being prudent, and paying attention, then stopped to avoid the collision.

 
Jayrod said:
Wow.  Everyone should know this.  When you are turning left, you have to yield to all cars coming from the opposite way, whether they go straight or turn right.

The only exception is if there is a specific right turn lane with a yield sign.
Click to expand...
Even if you were there 5 minutes before the other car shows up?

I posted NJ.  shrug

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Trick question.  Both have the right of way.  Because the major road they are turning on is a 4 lane road.

Now can we figure out why people always screw up a 4-way stop?  Somehow it always turns into 1 car going at a time.  The two cars opposite each other should go together so you always have 2 cars moving at once.  There's always that one passive driver that screws up the rotation.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
belljr said:
Even if you were there 5 minutes before the other car shows up?
Click to expand...
In this situation - where you are waiting 5 minutes -  you need a traffic signal at the intersection.  And, you probably need to make a right turn, and then do a U-turn at a controlled intersection...

 
shadyridr said:
Only in scenarios where you are both sitting at the stop sign obviously
Click to expand...
Same scenario.

I am turning left.  Pull up to stop sign.

I'm sitting there for a good 2 to 3 minutes.

Car opposite approaches Stop sign to turn right.

I now have to yield to him?

 
Ok. Let me try one more time. 

You arrive at the intersection to turn left. A few seconds later another car arrives to turn right. Neither of you can go. A gap opens up that’s only big enough for one of you. You ‘yield’ to the right turner and the gap closes. You stay, he goes. Now a car has arrived that’s going straight across the intersection after the right turner turned. Another gap opens that only really big enough for one. You ‘yield’ to him and let him go too. 

I mean this just doesn’t seem right. I know ‘left yields’  but that’s IN the intersection. Do you ‘yield’ the right to enter an intersection as well?

 
doowain said:
Trick question.  Both have the right of way.  Because it's a 4 lane road.

Now can we figure out why people always screw up a 4-way stop?  Somehow it always turns into 1 car going at a time.  The two cars opposite each other should go together so you always have 2 cars moving at once.  
Click to expand...
Its not a 4-lane road.  Its a 3-lane road.  1 lane in either direction, with a turning lan in the middle - which was clear at the time.

 
belljr said:
Same scenario.

I am turning left.  Pull up to stop sign.

I'm sitting there for a good 2 to 3 minutes.

Car opposite approaches Stop sign to turn right.

I now have to yield to him?
Click to expand...
Apparently. This happens a good deal in the Chicago area. I’m sure out east too. 

 
I like Mr Robotos example also.

Car A approaches to turn left like previous.

Car B approaches opposite 10 seconds later.

As you both wait.

Car C Car D pull up behind Car B.

Car A now has to wait for all 3 cars?!@#?!?

 
mr roboto said:
Sure if Car B has a gap to turn right that isn’t a gap for Car A to turn left. What if a gap opens up at the same time for both?  Then the car that got to the intersection first has right of way. 
Click to expand...
Left turns always yield. If it were a 4 way stop you'd be right, but in this case, a grey area, I think B gets it on a technicality, even though I think A deserves to go first.

 
I've always looked at it like this. Is the guy over there a dumb-### mother-####er when it comes to driving?

Almost always the answer is yes. So I yield until they figure their #### out. Then I go. 

 
belljr said:
Same scenario.

I am turning left.  Pull up to stop sign.

I'm sitting there for a good 2 to 3 minutes.

Car opposite approaches Stop sign to turn right.

I now have to yield to him?
Click to expand...
Absolutely not, IF there is an opening for you to turn.  However, if there is not, he is in his right to make his turn.

 
doowain said:
Absolutely not, IF there is an opening for you to turn.  However, if there is not, he is in his right to make his turn.
Click to expand...
oh I agree - I assume we are fighting for the "same gap" - not he had a chance to turn right and I couldn't but he didn't

 
Harry Manback said:
Left turns always yield. If it were a 4 way stop you'd be right, but in this case, a grey area, I think B gets it on a technicality, even though I think A deserves to go first.
Click to expand...
I mean in actual practice if you both start your turn at the same time Car A will likely tuck right in behind Car B. #### right of way it’s like synchronized swimming. 

 
belljr said:
I like Mr Robotos example also.

Car A approaches to turn left like previous.

Car B approaches opposite 10 seconds later.

As you both wait.

Car C Car D pull up behind Car B.

Car A now has to wait for all 3 cars?!@#?!?
Click to expand...
Those other cars all have to make full stops in which case Car A gets his opportunity to turn left.  If there is still traffic I believe Car A would have to continue yielding when there is an opening.

 
mr roboto said:
I mean in actual practice if you both start your turn at the same time Car A will likely tuck right in behind Car B. #### right of way it’s like synchronized swimming. 
Click to expand...
This is how it should have worked, imo.

In this case Car A cut off Car B, but Car B (right turn) still had time to tuck in behind Car A.

At this particular intersection, at this particular time - morning rush hour - traffic is mostly going in one direction, and the flow of traffic is essentially controlled by a stop light at the next intersection.  So, when there is a gap in traffic, it tends to be big enough for many cars to safely get though this two-way stop.

 
Sinn Fein said:
This is how it should have worked, imo.

In this case Car A cut off Car B, but Car B (right turn) still had time to tuck in behind Car A.

At this particular intersection, at this particular time - morning rush hour - traffic is mostly going in one direction, and the flow of traffic is essentially controlled by a stop light at the next intersection.  So, when there is a gap in traffic, it tends to be big enough for many cars to safely get though this two-way stop.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s just something where you all start rolling through the stop sign so as many people can get out before the next wave comes. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
This is Ohio:

(A) The operator of a vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right of way to any vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley approaching from the opposite direction, whenever the approaching vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley is within the intersection or so close to the intersection, alley, private road, or driveway as to constitute an immediate hazard.

Car turning right would have to be considered "so close to the intersection as to constitute an immediate hazard".
Click to expand...
Haven't read through the entire thread ... but the California and Ohio laws you've cited don't cover the situation you've described in the OP. The CA and OH laws you've cited cover vehicles turning off of a 'major' road (well, for OH, more major than 'an alley, private road, or driveway') onto 'lesser' roads. The cars in your OP are doing the opposite -- going from lesser roads onto major roads. IMHO, that makes a big difference and brings the typical stop-sign rules into play.

A lot depends on the nature of the 'major' road in the OP. Two lanes separated by a double line, with traffic going 35-45 mph in opposite directions? Or four lanes going each way at 55-60 mph with a huge median? Or something else?

 
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