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CNN: Why Trump is still winning (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bozeman Bruiser
- Start date
unckeyherb
Footballguy
It sounds like you won't give him credit for anything then. Its almost a year into his presidency. He's had an affect on the Stock market. Its still climbing. You can be unimpressed and I imagine you will be with anything he does. That doesn't mean these aren't wins for millions of people that voted for him-and even some who didn't.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
If he kept his mouth shut and didn't do sooooo many stupid things then I may be able to appreciate some of the things he's done more. So far I feels he's done more damage than good.
I still don't know how pulling out of the Paris Accord is a win. I know some like it but that alone doesn't make it a win. What's the major benefit? I'm honestly curious because I don't know and no one has giving a good reason that I've seen.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Sorry but no, it doesn't count as him "still winning" if he accomplishes a thing that every president does and that was inevitable the moment he won the election. If you're going to declare appointing a Supreme Court Justice to be a win, why not go ahead and declare every Cabinet appointment as a win too? If you're gonna be disingenuous about it might as well tally every win you can.
I agree with you about the market and jobs. I wasn't trying to say it's continuing to grow because of Obama, I was just pointing out that whatever credit you want to give to Trump for those things, you have to give tenfold to Obama.
I appreciate your thoughts, and I think some of the things you listed can be counted as positives of the Trump presidency for some. But the article wasn't saying that Trump is "still winning" because he is doing things that a president can do or because the economy continues to hum along. The premise was that Trump is "still winning" because of identity politics or something (wasn't entirely clear). How have the left's identity politics enabled the "wins" you listed? I think the author's point was that Trump continues to be empowered because his adversaries are picking the wrong battles, but the things you listed are things that could have happened even if Trump's approval rating was at 5% and was on the verge of an impeachment conviction.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Fair enough on the first point. He cancels out anything he does with idiocy and half to zero truths.
Regarding the Paris accord, many on here will probably flame me as a climate denier, but I'd say that its a win for a few reasons. The agreement was financially brutal to a country like the US. It would have cost us trillions of dollars over the next 20ish years, it would have hurt manufacturing in the US, oh and the net results on the climate are projected to be negligible. MIT did a study indicating that while costing the world trillions of dollars, the global mean temp change by the year 2100 would be 0.2 degrees C. I'm all for making smart decisions with regard to the climate but sometimes "doing something is better than doing nothing" actually isn't true. Doing something that will hamstring us financially and results in no recognizable change, is not a good thing. Also, its not like this negates companies from continuing the push for cleaner energy.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Every time you post your drivel about Trump and sexual assault and don’t preface it with the word “alleged” you are being inaccurate and misleading.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Thanks for a detailed answer. I won't call you a climate denier as I don't believe everything I hear either. Some of that data has been proven wrong or was altered or something like that which makes it hard for me to trust the reports.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Please feel free to call me out on it, then. Just so long as you stick around to discuss those allegations so we can evaluate whether I really am being inaccurate and misleading. I welcome a respectful discussion on the issue.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
unckeyherb
Footballguy
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
There was a story at the beginning of the year that said some scientists were altered data. I'm not sure if that was proven true or not. Here is the story, https://science.house.gov/news/press-releases/former-noaa-scientist-confirms-colleagues-manipulated-climate-records I think it may have been debunked though.
boots11234
Footballguy
You know, there was a time when democrats also supported tax cuts/reformes. They decided to sit this one out and I think it is going to come back and bite them.lazyike said:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I would think that one big part of "winning" would be earning the support of the electorate. Trump hit a 32% approval rating earlier this week (Pew). I think an argument could be made that whatever small policy gains he's made (or at least claimed), the damage he is doing to the Republican Party brand as a new generation of voters hits the rolls has erased or will erase many of those gains after his term is completed.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I see. That doesn't have anything to do with the Paris Accord though, nor the cost vs result analysis that was done in the MIT study.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
No, I was just talking about being a climate denier. I sometimes have my doubts about some of the climate claims as well.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Maybe. Reagan hit somewhere around 40% in the early 80's and he's the sacred cow of conservatives. Again, its probably too early to tell. FWIW, republicans that campaigned and won on promises of repeal of Obamacare only to not repeal Obamacare have done far more to hurt their brand than anything Trump has done. They've kind of validated his position that most of the establishment in government doesn't give a #### about the concerns of its constituents.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
That time is called a "recession." That's also a time when many economists support tax cuts. We're not in one now, which is one of many reasons why virtually nobody in either group supports the tax bill.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
St. Ron had a much larger and whiter conservative base behind him. The electorate has become more racially diverse since 1984 and will become even more so with each passing election. Reagan might have been a sly old minority-baiter in his own right (welfare queens and hippies who smelled like Cheetah) but he didn't go out of his way to appease a small racist group with outright slurs. Minorities of all kinds value a government that values them in return and Trump has categorically placed himself on a team that doesn't.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Bravo @unckeyherb for engaging in a civil manner. I may not agree...but finally someone trying to do it the right way.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I support cuts or reform.
I don't support cuts that mainly target corporations or the rich in the manner which these did. Nor do I support cuts when there is such a large increase in spending going on. And I don't support massive cuts that add greatly to the deficit.
Yet...spending cuts to areas of need or areas that actually help people.
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Problem is that since Republicans made those Obamacare repeal promises the electorate has changed their mind where nearly 60% now like Obamacare however many would support making some changes to it. McCain voting against simply repealing might have rescued the GOP from making a mistake. They promised to "repeal and replace" not just repeal.
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RBM
Footballguy
Ivanka Trump✔@IvankaTrump
The Hispanic unemployment rate dropped to 4.7% - the LOWEST in the history of the United States. This Administration and @realDonaldTrump are working hard to create opportunities for all Americans…and we are just getting started! #MAGA#JobsReport https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf …
The Hispanic unemployment rate dropped to 4.7% - the LOWEST in the history of the United States. This Administration and @realDonaldTrump are working hard to create opportunities for all Americans…and we are just getting started! #MAGA#JobsReport https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf …
sho nuff
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
That's what I was thinking. I just looked at the unemployment trend it looks like it was going to hit that number regardless if he was President or not. I have yet to see what he's done specifically to improve that number.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Ive asked numerous times...to numerous posters who try to bring up jobs and the economy. For some reason...nobody answers the question.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Well, with regards to the economy, the market is still climbing and by the way, its not a zero sum game. Obama had a hand in it, no question. That doesn't mean Trump doesn't and Trump's claims to being a positive force in these matters doesn't nullify the previous administration's role . I think a fair argument could be made that this in in part due to an expectation of new tax policy, deregulation, maybe infrastructure spending-all things that are based on Trump being President. Its up over 20% from last year. He's had a hand in that.
Unemployment has gone from 5% last year at this time to 4.1% now. If he can get it to 3.9% I'd say that's a huge win for him as that hasn't been accomplished since Bill Clinton left office. Job gains are down, but that's at least in part, a reflection on the lower unemployment rate. Manufacturing job gains are up 150,000 from last year.
Unemployment has gone from 5% last year at this time to 4.1% now. If he can get it to 3.9% I'd say that's a huge win for him as that hasn't been accomplished since Bill Clinton left office. Job gains are down, but that's at least in part, a reflection on the lower unemployment rate. Manufacturing job gains are up 150,000 from last year.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Taking credit for having a hand in it is great, I wish he would do that. My biggest issue is how he's trying to come off as it being all him, taking full credit and how people take that as gospel.
I keep wondering how much those numbers would be different if someone else was President. The US was already on pace for those numbers you posted. Is Trump responsible for keeping them on pace or was it inevitable?
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unckeyherb
Footballguy
I think that is debatable. I believe Trump, though he is far from able to articulate it, is on a team that values Americans, period, and doesn't pander to identity politics, which is kind of the point of the initial article. I also think its debatable that dems actually value minorities beyond the polls. Take a long drive through my city-a city that has had non-stop democrat leadership since 1952-and give me a convincing, cogent argument that democrats value minorities or a possess a plan to improve their way of life.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I agree, I wish he'd throw the twitter in the garbage.
I'd wager that if Hillary were president the prospect of more restrictive regulations and higher taxes would have us not at record highs in the market. But that's a guess.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
The stupid minorities should totally ignore Donald ranting about "Mexican rapists" and Moslems being automatically suspect because of their religion. The stupid black people should just ignore that Donald's DOJ is doing nothing while red state legislatures systematically make it more difficult for poor people, mostly minorities, to vote.
So, yeah, let's have a debate. For my first argument, let's look at the growing diversity of the Republican Party, of which Trump is the de facto head.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
People like you are the reason this country can't have a discussion with itself. Ridiculous, unhelpful, irrelevant post that completely mis-characterizes anything and everything I've said. I see no sign of having a useful debate with someone that would dial up the rhetoric BS to 11 right out of the gate.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Tell us more about how Hillary Clinton would have gotten tax increases through a Republican-controlled House and Senate. Tell us about why she would have even tried.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
The question was whether the market would be where it is now if it was someone else in office. That someone else would have been Hillary. My point was that I do not believe she would have been pro-deregulation, for tax cuts, etc. So I do not believe the market would be where it is today if someone else was in office.
Dedfin
Footballguy
Dedfin
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
If Trump were to raise taxes on the middle class and pass another 5% tax cut for companies and the wealthy, I bet stocks would go up even more. Should we do that?
Is a high stock market our goal as a country, should that be the measure of success of policy?
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Well well well....look who brought peace to the Middle East.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-even-left-backs-trump-jerusalem-140444255.html
massraider
Footballguy
Sorry, this is fake news.
How would a handbag designer have real unemployment numbers?
I heard during the election it was 25, 30, 40%.
Pretty sure it's impossible for unemployment rate to drop from the 40% her father told us about, to whatever fake news number she's using.
Come on now, be better than that.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
This is a weird characterization of an article that acknowledges that the decision prompted a wave of Palestinian protests and drew warnings of a "third Intifada" in the very first paragraph. I mean, I guess it's good that all Israelis support a policy that sides unreservedly with Israel, but that's a long way from "bringing peace to the Middle East." We're not really concerned with Israeli on Israeli violence.
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squistion
Footballguy
Indeed, it has been so peaceful in the Middle East after Trump's announcement on Jerusalem.
Anytime you paint an entire group as such and such it is bogus and I have accurately pointed out many instances and not in a single case was it met with anything but attacks.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
No you're right. Lets raise taxes on businesses to stifle growth and push more jobs beyond our borders. Hopefully the market will tank because, honestly, is that really a goal?
ETA: This was all in response to whether Trump has any valid wins. If you think that a record high stock market is not only, NOT a win for him but actually shouldn't even be a goal, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
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adonis
Footballguy
It's a metric, not the metric.
It's good that it's up, but it's up at the expense of many other metrics that likely won't be in support of Trump. People who pimp the stock market highs as evidence of Trump's win, don't talk about at what cost those market records are coming at.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
What "team" is Trump on?
And whatever "team" that is, you don't think it panders to identity politics?
And what city do you live in?
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I wasn't trying to call you out, I'm literally saying I like the alternate spelling, don't see it too often anymore.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
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