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Should WW close down when the playoffs start? (1 Viewer)

Hurl Bruce

Hurl Bruce

Footballguy
I'm in a couple leagues that close the WW down when the playoffs start.  I don't know why, but they do.  Do other leagues do this? 

I don't see the point of it.  At least let the teams still alive use it.  

Anyone else dealing with something like this?

 
I'm a commish in 2 leagues and WW is open until the end.

Teams that are eliminated are locked out from making moves.  One league has a losers bracket so they stay open as well until eliminated.  I don't understand leagues that close them down.

 
That's absurd.

You should definitely stop non-playoff teams from picking people up, but most people aren't carrying a backup kicker for example, and they too occasionally get hurt.

 
rick6668 said:
I'm a commish in 2 leagues and WW is open until the end.

Teams that are eliminated are locked out from making moves.  One league has a losers bracket so they stay open as well until eliminated.  I don't understand leagues that close them down.
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Same with my 2 main leagues. Anyone still alive in the brackets can continue to make moves.

They are keeper leagues (contract/salary cap), so after the playoffs end, we revert everyone back to the end-of-regular-season rosters.  Can't keep anyone who was picked up while some teams were locked out.

 
Losers bracket rosters are locked and can't make moves. Business as usual for teams playing for the Championship.

 
Tool said:
One of my leagues does this. Doesn’t really bother me- same rules for everyone.
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I get the "same rules for everyone" thing, but closing the waiver wire just emphasizes the luck factor when players get injured. Depends on roster size/bench depth though too.

 
I'm in a league with my college roommate. He finished in like 13th place. Before Sunday's game he picks up the Buffalo D. I texted him like, "WTF?" He said he was under the impression that scores still counted toward final rankings. I was like, "No, you don't make the playoffs, you stop playing. You're locked into whatever position you finished the regular season in. And what does it even matter if you move up from 13th to 12th?"

Which is to say, we probably should lock it for teams that miss the playoffs. For teams in the consolation bracket, I prefer a "self-regulated" approach. If Bell goes down next week, don't use a waiver claim on Conner so you can use him in your seventh-place game. But if it's Sunday morning, all the competitive teams have had a chance to make their moves and you don't have a Wentz replacement, I think it's fine to grab a WW QB even if you're only playing for pride.

 
Crazy.

They should not shut down till after week 17 in dynasty/keeper leagues.

 
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One of my leagues keeps it open the other shuts it down.  I don't particularly understand shutting it down at Week 13.   A lot of leagues have short benches, so it's hard to roster a backup TE and a backup kicker.

I do agree that if you're out of the playoffs, you're locked from making moves.

 
We've had this discussion in our league, with the argument being "dance with who brung you"–that the ability to pick up someone like Foles, say, for a team that's been weak at QB could alter the playoff landscape in a way that wouldn't happen in the NFL. (Because players like Foles aren't on the NFL waiver wire).

We decided to leave it open because there are real cases where someone gets screwed by injuries in a way that doesn't happen in the NFL, i.e. your kicker getting hurt, and not being able to pick up a replacement because the waiver wire is closed. So we compromised; the waiver wire is open, but pickups cost $10, real money and against the salary cap. (Normally $1 or FAAB amount). That's enough of a disincentive that probably no one will pick up Foles, unless the Wentz owner happened to have Savage as a backup, or something like that. But if the Wentz owner happened to have Savage as a backup, he's not totally screwed.

(Just checked, he actually has Prescott).

 
In both my leagues waivers remain open until the bitter end. 

In one of the leagues we do a "loser bowl" where the last 8 teams compete for $50.  Those teams are not allowed to make waiver claims, and can only make add/drops after Thursday at 12:00 Noon. That way playoff teams only can make claims, and add/drops early week. 

 
My dynasty league has everyone competing until the end of week 16 for points. 4/12 teams basically play for free so we want to keep people active the whole season.

The league is called the Norris Dynasty and is made up of 3 fans from each of the 4 NFC North teams. The top scoring fan of each team plays for free.

 
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Our auction league rule is that only playoff teams can use bids on waivers with their remaining funds.

No player added during the playoffs are eligible to be kept for the following season

In an attempt to prohibit playoff teams from adding true game changers that get dumped because they are perceived to be too expensive to keep for next season, players dropped the last regular season week prior to the playoffs (when non-playoff teams may dump high priced studs for potential cheap keepers) must be claimed at least for the salary they had at the time when they were dropped. If they were a $35 player in the $100 auction cap (with expansion to $140 salary cap space once the season begins), they can't be added for $1 but must be claimed for at least $35 if the playoff team has available cap space.

Could be room for improvement somewhere but it seems to work well for everyone.

 
Hurl Bruce said:
I'm in a couple leagues that close the WW down when the playoffs start.  I don't know why, but they do.  Do other leagues do this? 

I don't see the point of it.  At least let the teams still alive use it.  

Anyone else dealing with something like this?
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I have one league that shuts down during the playoffs. (that league has always had the thought of get your roster straight for the final push, I don't really agree but everyone is playing by the same rules. Injuries can come into play though and they have before)

Another that has limited pickups (two)

Other that's wide open throughout.

If you are charging for transactions I'm always of the thought to leave it open for the extra money it brings in if nothing else. 

 
We close WW after week 12.  Have 17 man roster and no-dynasty.  We believe rewarding teams that draft and trade well during the first 12 weeks of regular season.  Playoffs start week 14.   

 
My 3 re-draft leagues leave it open.

My 2 dynasty leagues shut it down UNLESS a team sustains an injury where they cannot submit a complete healthy legal line up.  For the purposes of this rule Questionable is considered not healthy.  If I have a healthy TE as my only flex option then I would have to play the TE in the flex rather than being allowed to pick up a RB for the flex position.  A player acquired cannot be offered a contract for next season and you must have free agent funds available to make the pick up.  Also you can't cut guys randomly to get around the healthy line up rule.

It seems to work.

 
My redraft I've been running goes like this

Waivers are closed once playoffs start -  we actually changed it that you are allowed one pickup during the playoffs.  Only if you are still playing in the winners bracket.

Caveat.... if you cannot field a team due to injury then you are allowed additional pickups.

We try to play with the team that "brung ya".   So a team with a little better depth will benefit if players get injured.

I hope this makes sense

 
We shut it down right before player game time of week 14.  But our benches are pretty deep and everyone knows the rules.

 
Only if benches are expanded at the same time to accomodate backup kickers and an extra defense and maybe even a third QB.

No problem with closing it to eliminated teams, but in dynasty leagues the only way to do that fairly is to revert all rosters at the end of the season to what they were when the wire closed to anyone

 
belljr said:
My redraft I've been running goes like this

Waivers are closed once playoffs start -  we actually changed it that you are allowed one pickup during the playoffs.  Only if you are still playing in the winners bracket.

Caveat.... if you cannot field a team due to injury then you are allowed additional pickups.

We try to play with the team that "brung ya".   So a team with a little better depth will benefit if players get injured.

I hope this makes sense
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This.

Big fan of locking rosters come playoffs.

 
belljr said:
My redraft I've been running goes like this

Waivers are closed once playoffs start -  we actually changed it that you are allowed one pickup during the playoffs.  Only if you are still playing in the winners bracket.

Caveat.... if you cannot field a team due to injury then you are allowed additional pickups.

We try to play with the team that "brung ya".   So a team with a little better depth will benefit if players get injured.

I hope this makes sense
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Ours locks for the playoffs with the exception of replacing an injured player.  Any pickup must be for the same position that was injured.

 
My dynasty league locks pickups for the playoffs, it’s a nice challenge to cover your second kicker etc...only exception is if a team drops somebody, that player can be claimed the next week at the salary he was dropped. 

 
stlrams said:
We close WW after week 12.  Have 17 man roster and no-dynasty.  We believe rewarding teams that draft and trade well during the first 12 weeks of regular season.  Playoffs start week 14.   
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Doesn't this also punish teams for making the playoffs and doing well with their teams?  

Are there still FA adds? Or you just don't have access to the player pool after week 12? 

 
I think it's pretty weak sauce to allow waiver moves during the Playoffs. Maybe its because Ive been playing since the late 80's, and that's a modification that seems to have come about recently. Rubs me kind of like the way kids in my son's math class are allowed to use calculators for stuff I had to figure out by hand. Big crutch. You have the entire season to prepare for the stretch run. I'm a big fan of streaming, but at some point when you start morphing into a contender, you have to modify your approach. It's hard-core competition and strategy. Especially playing high stakes, which is mostly what I do. At some point those who make the cut have to bring the roster they curated to the table and see how it pans out with no extra help. Sink or swim. Injuries are part of game and playoff rosters should be big enough to allow teams to be prepared to weather them.

Suck it up, and dance with the girl you brought to the party. YMMV.

 
nittanylion said:
I think it's pretty weak sauce to allow waiver moves during the Playoffs. Maybe its because Ive been playing since the late 80's, and that's a modification that seems to have come about recently. Rubs me kind of like the way kids in my son's math class are allowed to use calculators for stuff I had to figure out by hand. Big crutch. You have the entire season to prepare for the stretch run. I'm a big fan of streaming, but at some point when you start morphing into a contender, you have to modify your approach. It's hard-core competition and strategy. Especially playing high stakes, which is mostly what I do. At some point those who make the cut have to bring the roster they curated to the table and see how it pans out with no extra help. Sink or swim. Injuries are part of game and playoff rosters should be big enough to allow teams to be prepared to weather them.

Suck it up, and dance with the girl you brought to the party. YMMV.
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I agree. I'm in a few league that cut off waivers and I'm good with it. If you are whole season depends on 1-2 week play then DFS is for you. I hate seeing teams that put in work all-season have it come down to waiver pickup last week or two and about 90+% of the time the player is only worth picking up because someone got hurt and elevated.

There is a reason fantasy leagues don't use week 17. Some of those reasons bleed into the earlier weeks.

 
My one issue with waivers running through the payoffs is worst-to-first.

During the season, you have the chaff that will take the guys who are emerging. When you're down to only four teams that are active, a good to very good team is getting the best freee agent in front of a very good to great team. In a 2-QB league, someone who is 2-9 in week 12 isn't going to become a championship contender because they can pick up Garappolo, but in Week 15, Foles could make a difference in that same league. The bottom teams are no longer able to make moves, so the #3 and 4 seeds can benefit simply because other teams are locked out.

 
CalBear said:
We've had this discussion in our league, with the argument being "dance with who brung you"–that the ability to pick up someone like Foles, say, for a team that's been weak at QB could alter the playoff landscape in a way that wouldn't happen in the NFL. (Because players like Foles aren't on the NFL waiver wire).

We decided to leave it open because there are real cases where someone gets screwed by injuries in a way that doesn't happen in the NFL, i.e. your kicker getting hurt, and not being able to pick up a replacement because the waiver wire is closed. So we compromised; the waiver wire is open, but pickups cost $10, real money and against the salary cap. (Normally $1 or FAAB amount). That's enough of a disincentive that probably no one will pick up Foles, unless the Wentz owner happened to have Savage as a backup, or something like that. But if the Wentz owner happened to have Savage as a backup, he's not totally screwed.

(Just checked, he actually has Prescott).
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The league i run does almost the same.  $2 and $3 transactions during the regular season.........but for the playoffs, every team gets 3 Emergency moves at $6 each.
Plan ahead.........but there is a parachute IF you need it.....but it will cost you more.  If an owner wants to pick up a player bad enough, he'll pay the extra $$.

By charging a fee during the regular season and elevating it during the playoffs, it eliminates some of the exact "shenanigans" that i've read on this Shark Pool over the last 20 years.     

Count me in the corner that i don't want owners just pulling up the "current weekly expert ranking list" and saying....."let me just pick up the Flavor of the Week DEFENSE and start them this week.. And do the same next week,.....and the week after".   I guess i equate this to the Stock Mkt and would ask you:  Do you want a bunch of Day Traders in your league?   or Growth Stock owners in your league?

 
I know this only closely parallels the original question, but I think its important for guys to at least think about this.

 There is virtually zero reason to close waivers, for any team , championship bound or not.

(Now, if the entire league votes for a specific set of circumstances or rules, then abide by that accordingly, of course...but I'm saying generally)

 I understand someone saying "that team is out of it, why should he be allowed to get a player that may help me??" BUT THATS A SHORTSIGHTED SELF CENTERED POINT OF VIEW.  Put yourself in the losers shoes, that guy paid his cash to start the season just like you did. He wants to get his fantasy experience just like you do when you are making a playoff run. Even if many guys don't pay as much attention, you can't rob the guy who is trying to win as many games as he can, even in a lost season. Who are you to say "you are out of it, you can't make any more moves"?

 Its no difference if a team is 1-7 in week 8 is it? He won't be making the playoffs, are we going to rob him of making moves trying to win as well? Where do we draw the line if thats the case? In week 4 when his team is dilapidated and injury riddled?  (and it looks like he has no chance then as well) Can he not make moves then too?

 Think long term.  Some guys want to get the full fantasy experience, and even if they are out of the winners bracket, they still try and win every game and improve their overall records long term.

At the end of the day, I would rather notch yet another win to my overall fantasy record.....and yes I'm that serious about it. I don't want to lose a game EVER, NEVER. I try and win them all. I don't care if I'm out of it. (sure I might not spend as much time agonizing over a lineup decision, but you can bet your ### I am trying to put my best team out there)  I want to win every ####### game I can, period, end of story. If its the difference of me going 5-8 or 4-9, so what, I am trying to win them all. You cannot rob me of that opportunity, I paid my cash to start the season like everyone else. I take pride in my overall win/loss record, and so should you all. Try to be the best manager you can be, even in a lost season.

 Not only that, here is another ironclad reason to allow roster moves FOR ALL TEAMS , not just the "contending teams".

 SIDE BETS - Many guys in my leagues like to talk smack/$hit, and also bet on the side in their matchups, even if they can't win the championship. Let them have a chance to make the best team they can.

Its nothing for guys to bet $50 or $100 on their individual matchups in many of my leagues, even in small leagues where the winner might only get $350-$550. In fact I have standing wagers with guys in my leagues, an "open bet" if they want. Sight unseen, no roster questions. At the start of the season, I tell them all if they want to bet $50 per game against me, they have a bet. Period.  Long term I am well ahead on these, and most don't take it except 1-2 of the more knowledgeable guys.

 Let the waivers run as they should all season.  Playing the waiver wire game, is every bit as important in week 16 , just like it is all the way through the season. Play and plan for it accordingly. If you don't consider the end-of-season ramifications all along, then you aren't taking everything into consideration. Thats on you as a fantasy owner.

 TZM

 
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TZMarkie said:
I know this only closely parallels the original question, but I think its important for guys to at least think about this.

 There is virtually zero reason to close waivers, for any team , championship bound or not.

(Now, if the entire league votes for a specific set of circumstances or rules, then abide by that accordingly, of course...but I'm saying generally)

 I understand someone saying "that team is out of it, why should he be allowed to get a player that may help me??" BUT THATS A SHORTSIGHTED SELF CENTERED POINT OF VIEW.  Put yourself in the losers shoes, that guy paid his cash to start the season just like you did. He wants to get his fantasy experience just like you do when you are making a playoff run. Even if many guys don't pay as much attention, you can't rob the guy who is trying to win as many games as he can, even in a lost season. Who are you to say "you are out of it, you can't make any more moves"?

 Its no difference if a team is 1-7 in week 8 is it? He won't be making the playoffs, are we going to rob him of making moves trying to win as well? Where do we draw the line if thats the case? In week 4 when his team is dilapidated and injury riddled?  (and it looks like he has no chance then as well) Can he not make moves then too?

 Think long term.  Some guys want to get the full fantasy experience, and even if they are out of the winners bracket, they still try and win every game and improve their overall records long term.

At the end of the day, I would rather notch yet another win to my overall fantasy record.....and yes I'm that serious about it. I don't want to lose a game EVER, NEVER. I try and win them all. I don't care if I'm out of it. (sure I might not spend as much time agonizing over a lineup decision, but you can bet your ### I am trying to put my best team out there)  I want to win every ####### game I can, period, end of story. If its the difference of me going 5-8 or 4-9, so what, I am trying to win them all. You cannot rob me of that opportunity, I paid my cash to start the season like everyone else. I take pride in my overall win/loss record, and so should you all. Try to be the best manager you can be, even in a lost season.

 Not only that, here is another ironclad reason to allow roster moves FOR ALL TEAMS , not just the "contending teams".

 SIDE BETS - Many guys in my leagues like to talk smack/$hit, and also bet on the side in their matchups, even if they can't win the championship. Let them have a chance to make the best team they can.

Its nothing for guys to bet $50 or $100 on their individual matchups in many of my leagues, even in small leagues where the winner might only get $350-$550. In fact I have standing wagers with guys in my leagues, an "open bet" if they want. Sight unseen, no roster questions. At the start of the season, I tell them all if they want to bet $50 per game against me, they have a bet. Period.  Long term I am well ahead on these, and most don't take it except 1-2 of the more knowledgeable guys.

 Let the waivers run as they should all season.  Playing the waiver wire game, is every bit as important in week 16 , just like it is all the way through the season. Play and plan for it accordingly. If you don't consider the end-of-season ramifications all along, then you aren't taking everything into consideration. Thats on you as a fantasy owner.

 TZM
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Is it redraft?

Because you wouldn't even be on the schedule to bother setting a lineup.  You'd have no matchup

Shrug

 
belljr said:
Is it redraft?

Because you wouldn't even be on the schedule to bother setting a lineup.  You'd have no matchup

Shrug
Click to expand...


 Yes, I am in redraft.   (But my commentary is geared towards virtually anyone in any league that is able to set a lineup and has a matchup)

 We usually play on Yahoo, and we always have games scheduled. Even the last place teams have head to head matchups there. At least of right now we do, even the last place teams in week 15.

In all my leagues we have games/matchups listed and can slot in and out accordingly.  If that changes to a "select few" teams during week 16, then that may be the case, I can't remember offhand.

 But I think any team that can field a lineup and has an opponent, can and should be able to make moves in any scenario.  Obviously any fantasy host that allows, CBS, Yahoo, ESPN, whichever the case may be.

 Sometimes people forget side bets.  Even in a matchup where you are a 20 point underdog (by projections), you can still "agree" to a bet, or points to make it a fair bet.

I have had seasons where I won more in side bets than I paid out in said league for entry fees. (thereby turning a lost season into a cash winner overall) Not to mention each win improves my overall win/loss record to boot.

Betting individual matchups is another topic though, and I get that some people don't do it.

 TZM

 
That's my point though.  After week 13 for us

Nothing is added to your overall record we stop accumulating

 
One of my leagues closes them down after Week 13.  The only exception, if you are unable to field a full lineup the commissioner will allow you to replace an injured player from the same position with one off the waiver wire in order to field a full lineup.

My other league allows waiver moves for teams as long as they are still alive in the playoffs.  

I prefer the second league - because by changing to a different set of rules in the playoffs just doesn't make sense.  I get the idea behind it - they want you to win with the team that got you there. However, if by being an active waiver wire manager got you there then how is it right to take away that strategy in the playoffs?

 
We allow waivers through the playoffs.  Way too many random injuries/suspensions/benchings to limit it.  No trades, though.

 
LittlePhatty said:
I get the "same rules for everyone" thing, but closing the waiver wire just emphasizes the luck factor when players get injured. Depends on roster size/bench depth though too.
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That's my thought, injuries happen. But I'm almost exclusively in Dynasty leagues where there's just not much left on the wire anyway. Some decent IDP but the best offensive players picked up in any of the leagues in the last month was RSJ or Peyton Barber. Probably not going to make much of a difference.

Todem said:
Crazy.

They should not shut down till after week 17 in dynasty/keeper leagues.
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I could go either way with this but for dynasty if you keep the wire open for playoff teams either make the players unkeepable or keep the wire open for everyone.

 
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Shutting down waivers during the playoffs has to be one of the dumbest ideas in fantasy football.  Streaming for one, and second, if a star player has a serious injury it gives bad teams who didn't make the playoffs an opportunity to improve their roster if it's a dynasty league.  Not to mention taking into consideration the teams already in the playoffs that may need to make an important pick up in case of injury.

/thread

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Doesn't this also punish teams for making the playoffs and doing well with their teams?  

Are there still FA adds? Or you just don't have access to the player pool after week 12? 
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I believe it rewards deeper teams if injuries occur so again putting emphasis on draft, FA and trades the 1st 12 weeks,,  We're also avoiding any one sided trades between a team that is out of the running and teams that are competitive.  Our FA works where last place team drafts first and so on.  At the end of the season there may be owners who are not paying attention so this may help a lower level playoff team to the detriment of really good team ... 

 
stlrams said:
I believe it rewards deeper teams if injuries occur so again putting emphasis on draft, FA and trades the 1st 12 weeks,,  We're also avoiding any one sided trades between a team that is out of the running and teams that are competitive.  Our FA works where last place team drafts first and so on.  At the end of the season there may be owners who are not paying attention so this may help a lower level playoff team to the detriment of really good team ... 
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No offense but that’s a bit ridiculous. 

You avoid 1-sided trades between a team out of the running & a competitive team by having 1. Ethical league members who don’t cheat, and 2. A voting process to veto shady deals, then 3. Kicking people out who try to pull shady crap like that. 

Another name for a “1-sided trade between a team out of the running & a competitive team” is “collusion” and it is universally unacceptable. 

It also fails to reward deeper teams - because even a deeper team might lost a starting RB at the beginning of the playoffs and then wouldn’t be able to get the backup. 

I find your logic to be deeply flawed here. Locking waivers doesn’t reward anyone. It only screws teams that suffer injury late rather than early. Just a punishment for bad timing and making the playoffs. 

“Your guy got hurt week 7? No problem! Your guy got hurt week 14? Screw you, pal - you should have had a deeper team!”

to me this is nonsensical, but hey - it’s your league. Each to their own. 

 
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When Owners know in advance that there's an upcoming waiver deadline, Owners prepare for the upcoming waiver deadline. If they don't, it's on them.

Playoffs are not called "the second season" for nothing. A Playoff Tournament, in my opinion, should have it's own set of risk/rewards and strategies.

Running a gauntlet, by definition, is never easy and not always fair. A lot like life. No matter how you slice it, being skilled or being prepared isn't always enough. No matter how much a League tries to legislate it out, luck finds a way to have some degree of impact. There's no way around it. You have to be lucky, too.

 
Clearly a distinction needs to be made between strict redraft and all forms keeper/dynasty.

Redraft:, no problem in shutting waivers for those eliminated from (the winner's bracket of) the playoffs. If done, I like the idea mentioned above of letting the losers bracket make their pickups after the winners' bracket has had their opportunity.

Dynasty/keeper: If those eliminated are prevented from making pickups, then as someone mentioned above, all rosters should revert to their state when the first team(s) were locked out of waivers.  Cannot allow winning teams to get a shot at waivers for players that they can then keep "forever" while some teams do not have the same opportunity to improve their team "forever".

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
No offense but that’s a bit ridiculous. 

You avoid 1-sided trades between a team out of the running & a competitive team by having 1. Ethical league members who don’t cheat, and 2. A voting process to veto shady deals, then 3. Kicking people out who try to pull shady crap like that. 

Another name for a “1-sided trade between a team out of the running & a competitive team” is “collusion” and it is universally unacceptable. 

It also fails to reward deeper teams - because even a deeper team might lost a starting RB at the beginning of the playoffs and then wouldn’t be able to get the backup. 

I find your logic to be deeply flawed here. Locking waivers doesn’t reward anyone. It only screws teams that suffer injury late rather than early. Just a punishment for bad timing and making the playoffs. 

“Your guy got hurt week 7? No problem! Your guy got hurt week 14? Screw you, pal - you should have had a deeper team!”

to me this is nonsensical, but hey - it’s your league. Each to their own. 
Click to expand...
How would you feel if you're the #1 seed and the #6 seed guy picks up someone on waiver.  Big time Rb goes down and his replacement picked by #6 seed beats you on the playoffs.  Does that reward the better team all year long?  Seems ridiculous...

 
rick6668 said:
I'm a commish in 2 leagues and WW is open until the end.

Teams that are eliminated are locked out from making moves.  One league has a losers bracket so they stay open as well until eliminated.  I don't understand leagues that close them down.
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leagues with deep benches close down the ww. We don't have ww during play-offs.We draft 21 players so we have deep benches,and not much left on ww this time of year anyways.

 
stlrams said:
How would you feel if you're the #1 seed and the #6 seed guy picks up someone on waiver.  Big time Rb goes down and his replacement picked by #6 seed beats you on the playoffs.  Does that reward the better team all year long?  Seems ridiculous...
Click to expand...
Does it really matter whether that happens in week 13 or week 14? It's part of the game.

 
Our league locks as soon as the playoffs start for every team, the only caveat being if a player is placed on IR you can replace him with a free agent from the same position.

Our rosters are deep enough to carry and extra Kicker, QB, Defense, etc. if you are savvy enough to do so, if you want to go into the playoffs without that's up to you. 

 
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