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Why millennials are facing the scariest financial future of any generation since the Great Depression (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mcintyre1
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Not now like it was decades ago. We came into adulthood with more debt and the major costs associated with raising a family substantially higher. Not real dollars, adjusted dollars.
supermike80
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
There are entry level jobs paying 50k in my industry. And there are so darn many good paying jobs out there we can't fill them all. The jobs gap is enormous. Just passing the drug test alone is a monumental achievement these days.
I'm just not buying this argument one bit. There is a massive blame game going on. Student Debt, cost of living, kids are expensive..blah blah blah...To me it feels like this generation wants everything and feels slighted when they don't have it. Move out of the house, get a cheap lousy apartment with a buddy, eat a few ketchup sandwiches and ramen noodles for dinner. Realize you just don't have the funds to hit the local microbrewery with your buddies this weekend and drop $50. Oh yeah, and you don't have any right whatsoever to go on vacation anywhere that you can't get to with a car and a buddy's place to stay.
Sick sick sick of the excuses. Big pet peeve.
MAC_32
Footballguy
If you're really interested I sourced some of what I referred to in the boomer thread in ffa. I get the sense you're just a yeller though. If I'm wrong then apologies and feel free to counter or follow up on any of what I cited. Some of your comments above reminded me of a couple other nuggets, but I'm not going digging if you're just gonna bark and ignore facts. Now excuse me but I need to get to work
supermike80
Footballguy
I'm a total yeller. I don't buy a lot of the whining I see from this generation. Are there some hurdles? Of course there are. Are they new to this generation? Some are yes. I'm not gonna sit here and say that life is easy. It isn't. But it also really never was.If you're really interested I sourced some of what I referred to in the boomer thread in ffa. I get the sense you're just a yeller though. If I'm wrong then apologies and feel free to counter or follow up on any of what I cited. Some of your comments above reminded me of a couple other nuggets, but I'm not going digging if you're just gonna bark and ignore facts. Now excuse me but I need to get to work
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I actually agree with a lot of this. I remember shortly after college seeing a lot of people my age buying newer houses or even building new houses. I couldn't understand how the hell they could afford that already. They were living in newly developed neighborhoods and driving new vehicles. I knew some were benefiting from their parents money but most had to be in tremendous debt. I know far too many people who feel it's very important to keep up with the Jones'. It's one of the numerous reasons I love living in the country away from people.
supermike80
Footballguy
Ohhh...Dont EVEN get me started. Millenials will whine like little 8 year old girls cause they have 30K in student loans but are more than happy to take on a 30K car loan. WAH WAH WAH
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I'm not a big fan of the lumping of everyone together though. We're not all like that, just like I don't think all baby boomers are terrible. The generation before has to take some responsibility for how the generation after them turns out.
supermike80
Footballguy
Every generation is responsible for the one after them to a point, no question. We set these kids up this way. No knowledge of hardship, they were given everything and anything they wanted, were hardly ever told no.
We as a generation have talked about this multiple times. How the "participation awards" and the "no one loses" mindset is going to really hurt these kids in the long run. And this is one result.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
anyone know of any good studies that show what buckets people spend their monthly income on compared to 40-50 years ago?
i am sympathetic to many of the economic issues, but in a sort of parallel analysis, i am interested in what other factors may be eating into people's paychecks.
Things like the below are things that are common expenses now and wouldn't have been before. We can debate the "necessity" of these things, but as a whole, I think that there are definitely ways to trim expenses.
i am sympathetic to many of the economic issues, but in a sort of parallel analysis, i am interested in what other factors may be eating into people's paychecks.
Things like the below are things that are common expenses now and wouldn't have been before. We can debate the "necessity" of these things, but as a whole, I think that there are definitely ways to trim expenses.
Sand
Footballguy
Case in point - DC is about 90% Democrat.
Had my first in grad school earning 1k/month. Of all things I've done in life this is the last one to regret, for me at least.
Did I mention I sent him out to till the fields and build the rest of the barn? These boy children are awesome!
And us Gen Xers get ignored over and over.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Zero regret here. No matter what life throws at us. We prioritized family over savings. Isn't anymore complicated than that and we'll deal with whatever consequences get thrown our way. It just isn't the case with with many in this generation. We're a risk adverse group that prepares for the worst and hopes for the best.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Hawkeye was talking about the terrible generations. Nobody thinks Gen X is terrible -- our awesomeness is universally acknowledged.And us Gen Xers get ignored over and over.
MAC_32
Footballguy
The biggest mistake millennials make with spending is dining out. Our spending dwarfs previous generations.
I've never thought to look up cable costs in prior decades. I imagine it's little different now vs. then, but just go back a few years and a noticeable difference probably existed. If I remember right, vehicle costs now are not marginally different than prior generations. But phone and internet - they are necessities and anyone that tries to argue otherwise isn't worth your time & energy. Sure, you can cut them, but all that will do is put you behind everyone else.
The greatest differences relate to housing, health/child care, and education.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Now THIS we agree on. Seriously. What were your peers thinking when it came to this stuff.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
i was more thinking of costs that were non-existent or minimal in previous generations. For instance, 40-50 years ago, there was no cable or internet and many people only had 1 car. I am curious how these "luxuries" affect monthly budgets today. (and perhaps there are expenses that cut the other way too and are non-existent now). I am also not expecting everyone to be a Luddite, but I am probably especially thinking of how to think about what you are doing in your 20s so that you are really living within or below your means and/or really considering the value of where your money goes so that you can be set up for future success. While I acknowledge a number of the pressures, I'm still not sure that most of it can't be mitigated by proper planning and avoiding various "traps" that get you stuck. (my daughter starts high school this year. coincidence?)
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think with good planning and sensible decision making most traps in your 20's can be avoided. Like you said, there are some new costs now vs. then but they're offset by things you may have paid for but are now non-existent. i.e. having 2 cars may be relatively new, but you don't get beaten up with interest and they also make cars better than they used to so they last longer if you maintain it and don't pile on the miles.
I mentioned housing, health/child care, and education because those are the hurdles that I think need to be the macro focus of any 20-something's budget. I'm sure education is not new news and to at least some degree housing too. But health/child care, I think that's the trap. Those line items massacre a budget unlike ever before - 8-10% of your annual take home just to pop a kid out (no complications), 13-15% to get someone to watch them, and another 9-11% just to insure them. That's just the bare minimum - accounting for average costs on the average salary for someone in their late 20's in Ohio. If you're smart about financing a home just the daycare and the insurance is a second mortgage payment. A year with a new kid obviously substantially more.
So as you're thinking about recommendations for your daughter when it comes to budgeting - you may not want to start with all of that, but I think it's where you need to end up. Starting off simple - not buying $5+ coffee's, making your own meals rather than grabbing a sandwich every day, cost of commuting, etc. Long view has to come in sooner rather than later though. In order to take advantage of the prime savings years and have kids before the risks increase she should plan to have college paid for and a house locked up by about age 24 then get enough stashed away for kids over the next couple years so she can pop them out in her late 20's/early 30's without needing to hit pause on savings too.
Or just do what many in my generation are doing - and don't have kids.
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supermike80
Footballguy
Because so many of you are selfish little whiners and don't want to sacrifice for another human being.MAC_32 said:
Period
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Then I was successful in conveying my feelings about this. It's a huge source of irritation for me.
The Commish
Footballguy
To be fair, it is laced with a touch of irony and smothered in hypocrisy. PULL YOURSELF UP BY YOUR BOOTSTRAPS PEOPLE!!!!!!
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Why the middle class is shrinking
The Shrinking Middle Class
Shrinking Middle Class Threatens Global Growth, Stability
6 findings that show the dire state of America's middle class
Middle class shrinking as incomes stagnate, costs rise: OECD
All of those links are recent and from reputable news sources. Some would say right leaning news sources.
The Shrinking Middle Class
Shrinking Middle Class Threatens Global Growth, Stability
6 findings that show the dire state of America's middle class
Middle class shrinking as incomes stagnate, costs rise: OECD
All of those links are recent and from reputable news sources. Some would say right leaning news sources.
supermike80
Footballguy
So what? Guess they should just quit then. The world is stacked against them. Poor suffering little kids.
These stats suck
The “middle class,” counted as people earning between 75% and 200% of the median income in each country, has shrunk since the mid 1980s from 64% to 60% of the population of richer countries. To this I say BFD. 4% means what? Nothing at all. Zip.
The shrinking of America’s middle class may have finally ground to a halt. Just over half (52%) of American adults lived in middle-class households in 2016, up slightly from 51% in 2011, but down from 54% in 2001 and 61% in 1971, according to recent data released by the Pew Research Center, a nonprofit think tank in Washington, D.C.
More evidence that this is a bunch of made up gibberish. Stop it.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
The intent was 100% driven by preparation. If the goal is family then to minimize risks with having kids late while also not hitting pause on savings then the average person needs to start saving as a teenager - is that age 13? 15? 17? Does that person need to continue to work through college? How much of the college bill is mom/dad planning to foot? Will mom/dad give an interest free loan to their kid for a down payment on a house? Will they just make it for them? Is moving home post-grad an option? If grad school is in the picture is it immediate? or something to circle around to later? There's more, but that's enough to start. The point is these sorts of questions need to be deliberated when the child is a teenager. If it is not done then your child will not have enough time to prepare for the kids vs. savings decision should they be married in their late 20's.
The health/child care piece is where we ####ed up, which is why I focused on that piece. Kids are expensive. Of course they are. Just not now like they ever were before.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't disagree with your thought at all. I get it. But I also took the time to read what you typed and process it too.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I just appreciate that he owned up to being a yeller from the outset, so i didn't waste any more time on him. Can't talk economics and budgeting with someone who refuses to acknowledge the realities of today vs. prior and how it influences decision making. There's a whole lot more to this subject too.
i.e. Our generation is taking our health a lot more seriously. Yes, there are a lot of fat people. There's very little in the middle ground though. We have watched our parents health deteriorate as they near and get to retirement and in many cases the source can be drawn back to decisions made when they were younger, developing habits they're unable/unwilling to kick as they age. So our generation's response has been wellness - eating better, not smoking, drinking less, getting plenty of rest, making time to exercise, etc. We do this both for a healthier body and mind now, but also for sustainability purposes. Boomers are struggling to make it to their desired age in their 60's, but we're preparing to working into our 70's. And obviously want to be physically and mentally able to enjoy at least some of that time too. So we don't work ourselves to death then make time to exercise, rest, and ensure healthy eating. We work hard when we are working, but the law of diminishing returns is very real. Everyone has their own unique bell curve. Healthy people generally have a longer curve, but it's still there. And some days you'll need to go down it a few notches, but you then need to take the time to reset after and return to your normal curve. The objective is to start going down that curve as infrequently as possible though. So boomers that worked themselves to death have a tendency to look at the sort of behavior and call it lazy. Nah, it's just smart. It's efficient. But it's different. So it's lazy.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
on the child care piece, is that actually more expensive now? what did someone do decades ago if they needed it? and shouldn't that be a net positive if it enables both parents to work. now, there are situations where the time and associated costs with the second parent working (transportation, clothes, meals, etc.) barely make it sensible to work (at least from a financial standpoint). but otherwise, how is childcare negatively affecting the bottom line moreso than 40 years ago?MAC_32 said:
I guess there are stats on this indicating that child care costs have increased at a much greater rate than inflation?
The Commish
Footballguy
Decades ago, costs were such where two incomes weren't required if you were responsible with your money. Today? I have run across dozens of families who do everything correctly and still have to rely on two incomes (that are still just barely better than one income 20 - 30 years ago)
MAC_32
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I understand that. I’m just trying to drill down specifically on the childcare costs.
and in a larger sense also trying to drill down on why the larger household income isn’t necessary. (Thanks to Mac for a lot of the stats.)
Max Power
Footballguy
Elizabeth Warren wrote a book about it. The two income trap. Once women started joining the workforce in record numbers, families were bringing in more money and that drove prices for things like housing and childcare up. Now families almost need two incomes to keep up with the Joneses.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I think more than anything, the costs of medical care and health insurance premiums and co-pays has jumped a lot in the last 40 years. If you had a family with 2 young kids in 1979, it probably cost a lot less (even adjusting for inflation) to provide medical care for them. Plus, 40 years ago people starting out in the work force were often offered pensions at large companies. Nothing like that exists today.
How do you know they are responsible with their money? What's their collective IQ? I ask because I doubt you really know these things. Maybe it was the phase "have run accross". That's like you met them at Walmart yet somehow you know everything about them.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Because many of them I worked with extensively when they reached out to the charities I gave time to. Some of them up to 2 years trying to help them get a new start. I've used many of their stories on these boards in the systemic racism threads, housing threads, homelessness threads etc. Of course they are all anecdotes and I know that, but that's how I know they are responsible with their money...in many cases I have handcrafted their budgets for them and helped them maintain them.
