Buffalo at New England

[JaxBill 4,824]

12 minutes ago, Whizzinator said:

The officials in NY who do the review agreed, and they have both the final word and the best evidence.   You should re-listen to what Romo said---he said there's a question about possession and he wasn't sure. 

How about this bozo and what he was sure about?

Mike Pereira‏Verified account @MikePereira 30m30 minutes ago

regarding the Buffalo no touchdown, nothing more irritating to an official than to make a great call and then someone in a suit in an office in New York incorrectly reverses it. It is more and more obvious that there isn't a standard for staying with the call on the field.

[Buffaloes 1,157]

Good coverage=pi. Being a pats fan must be like being a hulkamaniac in the late 80s. 

 

This league isn't even hiding it

[Gargoylez 107]

Bottom line, it's no secret the refs are bombing this year... The fact the NFL is doing next to nothing to fix it makes for a very testy results when it comes to bad calls. Benjamin's catch was a TD... And there was not enough to overturn, and they did. Very little to argue about thispoint. This happens every game though... To every team. It's already taking its toll on the ratings and continuing this will just cement the issues and push more people away....

Sorry just frustrated with the NFL.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Gargoylez

[RenegadeRoy 185]

1 minute ago, Buffaloes said:

Good coverage=pi. Being a pats fan must be like being a hulkamaniac in the late 80s. 

 

This league isn't even hiding it

If you're talking about the call on that pas to Gronk, that was pretty obvious PI. Not making a play on the ball and had a hand on Gronk's facemask.

[Whizzinator 5]

Just now, JaxBill said:

How about this bozo and what he was sure about?

Mike Pereira‏Verified account @MikePereira 30m30 minutes ago

regarding the Buffalo no touchdown, nothing more irritating to an official than to make a great call and then someone in a suit in an office in New York incorrectly reverses it. It is more and more obvious that there isn't a standard for staying with the call on the field.

As I've noted a couple times now, I think Riveron is applying a different standard for review than Pereira and Blandino did.  That explains (among other things) the ASJ reversal in the Jets game earlier this year.   I think NFL should own up to what the standard being applied actually is---and I don't think they have.

Pereira is terrific.   Worth noting that he said he's watching a review on a big-screen at a stadium and doesn't have the studio replays and all the angles and technology, so we'll see where he ultimately lands.

[JaxBill 4,824]

Just now, Whizzinator said:

As I've noted a couple times now, I think Riveron is applying a different standard for review than Pereira and Blandino did.  That explains (among other things) the ASJ reversal in the Jets game earlier this year.   I think NFL should own up to what the standard being applied actually is---and I don't think they have.

Pereira is terrific.   Worth noting that he said he's watching a review on a big-screen at a stadium and doesn't have the studio replays and all the angles and technology, so we'll see where he ultimately lands.

Exactly. He wants to leave no doubt the fix is in.

[Buffaloes 1,157]

2 minutes ago, RenegadeRoy said:

If you're talking about the call on that pas to Gronk, that was pretty obvious PI. Not making a play on the ball and had a hand on Gronk's facemask.

He batted the ball away. That's a play on the ball

[Whizzinator 5]

Just now, JaxBill said:

Exactly. He wants to leave no doubt the fix is in.

Hardly---no team has been hurt more by NY the last two years than the Patriots, who lost the league's best player for 4 games.

But I do think on replay reviews the NFL has changed the standard and not announced it.  That is pissing off Pereira and Blandino, for good reason.  

[RenegadeRoy 185]

Just now, Buffaloes said:

He batted the ball away. That's a play on the ball

I must've missed it, but his hand was tugging on Gronk's facemask.

[Whizzinator 5]

Just now, Buffaloes said:

He batted the ball away. That's a play on the ball

Watch the replay.  read the pass interference rule.  C'mon.

[wilked 1,832]

Bills kicking it when they should go for it and going for it when they should have kicked it. 

[Grigs Allmoon 838]

Stupid call to go for the fg there.

[Parrothead 3,243]

Just now, RenegadeRoy said:

I must've missed it, but his hand was tugging on Gronk's facemask.

meh..  ive seen worse not called PI-  chalked up to "letting them play"..   thing is, Pats get the calls on anything close...

[RenegadeRoy 185]

Just now, Parrothead said:

meh..  ive seen worse not called PI-  chalked up to "letting them play"..   thing is, Pats get the calls on anything close...

I don't think it was really that close, and I also prefer the let them play mentaltiy, but Gronk is usually on the other end of close PI calls.

[IvanKaramazov 15,486]

1 minute ago, Grigs Allmoon said:

Stupid call to go for the fg there.

I have to agree.  We needed a TD there.  Even making the FG wasn't going to be enough.

[GroveDiesel 6,818]

7 minutes ago, Whizzinator said:

As I've noted a couple times now, I think Riveron is applying a different standard for review than Pereira and Blandino did.  That explains (among other things) the ASJ reversal in the Jets game earlier this year.   I think NFL should own up to what the standard being applied actually is---and I don't think they have.

Pereira is terrific.   Worth noting that he said he's watching a review on a big-screen at a stadium and doesn't have the studio replays and all the angles and technology, so we'll see where he ultimately lands.

Here's the thing, the "irrefutable evidence" wording is encod d in the rulebook. If Riveron is using a different standard, then he is knowingly breaking NFL rules.

[Craig_MiamiFL 1,793]

TD Lewis

[bostonfred 25,442]

The good news is it looks like that call didn't really impact the game. 

[ShamrockPride 4,454]

Scoreless since being forced to settle for 3 by the refs.

[Whizzinator 5]

2 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Here's the thing, the "irrefutable evidence" wording is encod d in the rulebook. If Riveron is using a different standard, then he is knowingly breaking NFL rules.

I agree with that, but what I think he'd say (and no doubt Goodell) is they are just interpreting the words differently which is their prerogative.

They have been pretty consistent this year in overturning calls without much deference.  That is why loyal-to-on-field-refs Pereira has been increasingly critical of it.  I think they are getting more overall calls right this way, but it blows up the flow of the game and has to be hard for the on-field guys.  

To me, as a longtime fan, part of the issue is the on-field guys are worse than ever and the league office more sensitive to the criticism than ever and that's led to what I think is a bad situation where a lot of calls get heavy review, and sometimes reversals, that might have stood in the past.    Sometimes (as today) it serves the interest of getting the right result, but not at all sure the process is worth it.

[IvanKaramazov 15,486]

1 minute ago, ShamrockPride said:

Scoreless since being forced to settle for 3 by the refs.

Yeah, as terrible as the officiating has been, it's not their fault that the Bills can't generate anything resembling consistent offense.  Lots of self-inflicted wounds.

(Right on cue as I'm typing this).

[SengerCJ 767]

Aren’t the bills fighting for a playoff spot? Just haven’t felt any desperation from them in this second half. Trying a 50 yard field goal on 4th and 1 was a big sign. 

[Grigs Allmoon 838]

57 minutes ago, SengerCJ said:

Aren’t the bills fighting for a playoff spot? Just haven’t felt any desperation from them in this second half. Trying a 50 yard field goal on 4th and 1 was a big sign. 

One thing you won't see out of this team is desperation. It could be 4th down and goal from the 20 in the super bowl with 1 second to go and Tyrod would either dump it off to an RB for 2 yards or run around and take a sack. Cant risk an interception...

Edited December 24, 2017 by Grigs Allmoon

[bostonfred 25,442]

Congratulations to Tom Brady on his record setting 28th win against the bills, the most by any qb against a single opponent, breaking the previous record of 27 held by Tom Brady.

The bills are 122-118 against the rest of the NFL during that time, and 119-105 since 2002 against everyone but the patriots.  

[The Duff Man 950]

4 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Congratulations to Tom Brady on his record setting 28th win against the bills, the most by any qb against a single opponent, breaking the previous record of 27 held by Tom Brady.

The bills are 122-118 against the rest of the NFL during that time, and 119-105 since 2002 against everyone but the patriots.  

I think they said when the Pats won last time that Brady had the record for the most wins in Buffalo of any QB....including Bills QBs. Can't remember the time frame, maybe since he joined the league?

[Gargoylez 107]

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/263347/kelvin-benjamin-td-reversal-distorts-nfls-replay-review-system-again

For anyone who thinks this isn't a problem...

[IvanKaramazov 15,486]

1 hour ago, The Duff Man said:

I think they said when the Pats won last time that Brady had the record for the most wins in Buffalo of any QB....including Bills QBs. Can't remember the time frame, maybe since he joined the league?

This.  Obviously Kelly has more wins, but that was a different era.

[wilked 1,832]

2 hours ago, bostonfred said:

Congratulations to Tom Brady on his record setting 28th win against the bills, the most by any qb against a single opponent, breaking the previous record of 27 held by Tom Brady.

The bills are 122-118 against the rest of the NFL during that time, and 119-105 since 2002 against everyone but the patriots.  

Congratulations! 

[BobbyLayne 7,116]

2 hours ago, Gargoylez said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/263347/kelvin-benjamin-td-reversal-distorts-nfls-replay-review-system-again

For anyone who thinks this isn't a problem...

That was ridiculous 

Every week I become less of a fan of the NFL

[Godsbrother 5,473]

19 hours ago, Whizzinator said:

That one was not nearly as close at it looked---the angle from the back, where you see the toe drag, looks like a clear catch.  But the issue is he bobbled the ball---on the reverse angle, where you can see ball moving and the feet, it's clear the second foot had finished the drag and was back up and ball was still moving.  No possession.  Then the second foot touched down out of bounds.

Don't think this will be controversial once people really see the right replay, it was a close to no-brainer reversal in the end

Yeah it was such a no brainer that it took more than 5 minutes, multiple angles, super slow motion for the league to make a call that still looks like a TD to most fans.

This is the problem with the NFL and the replay rules.  If it takes more than 60 seconds to analyze the call on the field should stand. 

 

[Road Warriors 143]

2 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Yeah it was such a no brainer that it took more than 5 minutes, multiple angles, super slow motion for the league to make a call that still looks like a TD to most fans.

This is the problem with the NFL and the replay rules.  If it takes more than 60 seconds to analyze the call on the field should stand. 

 

This is not a bad solution... a time limit on review.  For "indisputable" evidence, it shouldn't take stitching together multiple angles with stop action HD frame-by-frame analysis.  Indisputable should also be obvious.  The availability of technology is a huge part of the over-analysis of catch/no catch.  To me, the Benjamin play is the poster child for "the ruling stands" regardless of how it was called on the field.  

[BobbyLayne 7,116]

Official to Bills: I don’t know why it was overturned

[BobbyLayne 7,116]

A video from Sunday’s game shows Bills quarterback Tyrod Taylor and coach Sean McDermott both talking to the officials on the sideline, seeking an explanation for why the ruling on the field of a touchdown was reversed to incomplete. But that change was made by the league’s head of officiating, Al Riveron, and the officials in the stadium couldn’t explain what Riveron was thinking.

“That’s a hell of a throw, and a catch, I thought,” deep judge Mark Hittner told Taylor.

McDermott then asked, “How is that incomplete?” to which Hittner replied, “I don’t know.”

The point of instant replay is supposed to be fixing obvious errors — the kind of mistake that anyone can easily see. If the error isn’t obvious to an NFL official, it’s hard to see how it could be a mistake obvious enough that it should have been overturned. Riveron has a problem on his hands if his own officials are acknowledging to the players and coaches on the sideline that they don’t know what Riveron was thinking.

[brun 702]

That TD reversal was difficult for Bills fans and Pats haters to take. It is also a negative for fans in general and probably the Bills offense because of how long it took.

Pretty much agree with @Godsbrother

As a quality guy, I would like to see the NFL put some boundaries around the replay process that are similar to the way most companies do for visual inspection where they specify lighting, distance, time. In this case the equipment and reviewers are already in control of the league. They could allow the initial reviewer 60 seconds. If he/she is still uncertain or needs confirmation, a 2nd reviewer can have 30 seconds. That's it. No more review (except of course for the broadcast crew and TV and radio people who will complain how they still got it wrong).

[parrot 925]

The rulebook does specify a 60 second limit for reviews.  Doesn't seem like it is being enforced.