What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

I need help with Collusion (1 Viewer)

S

Sdchargersfan1322

Footballguy
My league is over and evidence of collusion was sent in. Basically a member of the league paid another member of the league $80 to switch all of their draft spots.   The person that paid the $80 to switch draft spots won the league. My suggestion was putting all of the money towards next year, though the people in 1st, 2nd and 3rd place understandably want their money. Any ideas on how to handle this?

 
Interesting situation. I'm not sure how strong your case of evidence is but if the case is strong I would suggest a league vote. I would propose that the two teams involved are disqualified for the season and not allowed to participate in the future. That means everybody jumps up one spot in order of finish for the prize money.

 
More info needed.  Are you saying in this years draft Team A and Team B basically flipped draft positons and Team A payed Team B to do this (I assume this means Team A was toward the bottom of the draft and Team B was toward the top and Team A wanted the higher draft picks).  Or was it that they swapped picks every other round so that Team A got the higher pick in EVERY round?

Does your league have rules against trading draft positions - or in this case selling draft positions?  Did you not notice this during the draft?  When Team A kept picking when it was Team Bs turn?  Shouldn't it have been stopped then if there was a rule against it?  Waiting until after the season has played out seems just as shady as the act itself.

 
I would like to hear more details as well and I don't understand how this is coming to the surface now but I would assume no league allows for the trading of cash for fantasy football assets so with knowing what we know so far I'll stand by what I said above and would DQ the two owners and would not allow them to play in the future.

 
The evidence is strong, the money was exchanged for sure. Team A had pick 3 originally, and Team B had the first pick. They basically traded draft spots so Team A picked at draft spot 1 every round essentially. It was a snake draft, so second round he picked at the back of the first, etc. They originally just said that Team B wanted Zeke so he was fine taking a later draft position. You aren’t allowed to pay to switch draft spots, but draft pick trading is allowed. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sdchargersfan1322 said:
The evidence is strong, the money was exchanged for sure. Team A had pick 3 originally, and Team B had the first pick. They basically traded draft spots so Team A picked at draft spot 1 every round essentially. It was a snake draft, so second round he picked at the back of the first, etc. They originally just said that Team B wanted Zeke so he was fine taking a later draft position. You aren’t allowed to pay to switch draft spots, but draft pick trading is allowed. 
Click to expand...
This doesn’t sound like collusion to me. Sure, he shouldn’t have paid the guy, but if all they did was switch draft positions for the entire draft, I’d say no harm, no foul. 

You should make it clear that paying on the side is not allowed, but it’s not like one guy got a big advantage.

 
Sdchargersfan1322 said:
The evidence is strong, the money was exchanged for sure. Team A had pick 3 originally, and Team B had the first pick. They basically traded draft spots so Team A picked at draft spot 1 every round essentially. It was a snake draft, so second round he picked at the back of the first, etc. They originally just said that Team B wanted Zeke so he was fine taking a later draft position. You aren’t allowed to pay to switch draft spots, but draft pick trading is allowed. 
Click to expand...


kutta said:
This doesn’t sound like collusion to me. Sure, he shouldn’t have paid the guy, but if all they did was switch draft positions for the entire draft, I’d say no harm, no foul. 

You should make it clear that paying on the side is not allowed, but it’s not like one guy got a big advantage.
Click to expand...
That's my thought too. Based on the info provided, it appears no other team was disadvantaged.

 
I agree with above. This is not collusion. Really don’t see a problem at all actually. If he paid money for a draft pick I’d have a problem but all the did was flip positions- no one got an advantage.

 
I just am trying to understand.

So (*assume 12 team league)

TEAM A had the #1, #24, #25 etc

TEAM B has #3, #22, #27 etc.

So TEAM B paid TEAm A 80 bucks to switch.

did they switch teams after the draft?  Did everyone know they were switched and drafting in this new order?

SO before the season even started they swapped picks then drafted?

Not sure how I see thi as a problem - still had to draft an manage the winning team...

Don't agree with it but not real collusion in the sense as I would define it

 
This is simple really.  Assuming it's a dynasty league.  As commish you don't allow it.  The draft order is determined by order of finish and any advantaged gained by the league champion to improve his draft position cannot be allowed.  League integrity is at stake because the league champion shouldn't be allowed to improve his draft position by paying for it.  

If it's a redraft league it doesn't matter as much but as commish I wouldn't allow selling of picks.  They must be obtained via trade of other picks and be a reasonable trade.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU said:
This is simple really.  As commish you don't allow it.  The draft order is determined by order of finish and any advantaged gained by the league champion to improve his draft position cannot be allowed.  League integrity is at stake because the league champion shouldn't be allowed to improve his draft position by paying for it.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

However, in the future if two owners want to do this, they just wont tell other owners about the money exchange.

 
JohnnyU said:
This is simple really.  As commish you don't allow it.  The draft order is determined by order of finish and any advantaged gained by the league champion to improve his draft position cannot be allowed.  League integrity is at stake because the league champion shouldn't be allowed to improve his draft position by paying for it.
Click to expand...
And if its a redraft where you pull numbers out of a hat?

 
Pwingles said:
I agree with this.

However, in the future if two owners want to do this, they just wont tell other owners about the money exchange.
Click to expand...
That won't work because the commish sets the draft order and the rules governing the draft order sets the draft order.

 
Not seeing a problem. If someone wants to give me $80 to switch draft position for a draft, I'm all over it.

Strange that there is even a rule for this. I'll out draft the guy to begin with. Plus now I have $80 of his.

 
Pwingles said:
he said trading picks was allowed
Click to expand...
If it's a dynasty league, not redraft, league integrity comes into play again.  The team with the better pick cannot just trade them for money, he / she must trade for players or other picks for them.  If it's a redraft league it doesn't matter as much but as commish I wouldn't allow selling of picks.  They must be obtained via trade of other picks and be a fair trade.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If they switched draft spots and he paid $80 then slap them and make a new rule. If the $80 was exchanged after he won then I’d call it collusion. If it wasn’t an issue  back in August/September then it shouldn’t be an issue because he won. 

 
Things still seem a little fuzzy on what exactly happened but in any league you should be allowed to trade any fantasy assets for real cash. If that happened this should have been addressed immediately and not allowed. I'm still unclear as to when it was discovered cash was exchanged for fantasy assets but that is important. If it was discovered at the start of the season and no action was taken it seems like this was handled poorly. If it was recently discovered I would still say I would DQ the teams involved. If it was discovered at draft time and no action was taken then shame on the league and the commissioner should be thrown out for not addressing it right away.

 
With the details being as vague as they are I am going to assume that the guy that won the league paid 80 dollars to switch draft spots and I see no problem with it. The fact it is being brought up after the guy won makes this sound like sour grapes. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you can trade draft picks than I don't see a problem.

When I 1st read the thread title my original reaction was, of course you need help with collusion.How can you do collusion by yourself?

 
I dont see this as collusion but more as a violation of league/fantasy football rules.

In redraft leagues all draft spots are presumed to be even (as long as it is a snake draft).  The 1st pick in one round gets the end of the next... and each of us have a favorite position we would probably prefer to draft from.  So I dont see any problem with someone moving up or down in a draft if they take all those picks throughout all rounds.  Now if there is a rule about $ or services or ___ not being allowed to trade for players then they violated that (and probably the spirit of fair fantasy football league play).

I believe this has to be redraft since the guy who moved up did it because he said he "wanted to take Zeke."  The only way Zeke is available is if this is redraft.
 

 
I think I'm siding with the rest of you.  I don't see it as a big deal if trading draft picks is allowed already.  If he didn't gain a distinct advantage over anyone else then I don't see a problem.  Sounds like he just drafted and managed his team better than everyone.

 
JohnnyU said:
If it's a dynasty league, not redraft, league integrity comes into play again.  The team with the better pick cannot just trade them for money, he / she must trade for players or other picks for them.  If it's a redraft league it doesn't matter as much but as commish I wouldn't allow selling of picks.  They must be obtained via trade of other picks and be a fair trade.
Click to expand...
I think its re draft, and i am saying , if they chose to swap picks, even through the entire draft, there is nothing wrong with that on the surface.

So the issue is the money, which i also think is shady. But in the future, after the OP or his commish or whoever decides to reverse that deal and make it clear that its not allowed... that people can still do it.

If you are suggesting that trading draft picks in re draft hurts league integrity, I think thats kinda silly. But then again, I also was told this weekend that chopping a prize pool in championship games, is the same as collusion and should be grounds for not being invited back to a league/quitting a league

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Collusion is the act of one team(person) intentionally helping another team(person) win(get better) to also benefit in the positive outcome (often part of the prize pool or something of the like).

I don’t see this here.  Unless you can prove that team B benefitted from team A’s win in a predetermined deal it’s not collusion.   

 
@Sdchargersfan1322 you need to clear up some questions people have if you want good feedback.  Although it sounds like this may not be going the way you intended/wanted it to go and you may have abandoned the thread.  Hopefully that's not the case.

Is it redraft or dynasty?   How/when did people find out that this $80 was traded?

I think I'm with everyone else, that 1 or 3 doesn't really make that much of a difference.  Curious how the draft went.. if they said it was because he wanted Zeke, did team A take Bell #1 overall?  #1 overall was a curse in almost all redrafts this year as most took DJ there anyways. 

Either way, if draft picks are tradeable then this isn't that big of an issue.  If someone paid $80 to make an unfair trade in the season to stack a team that's one thing.  But we're talking about a draft pick where #3 was arguably a better pick than #1 this year anyways. 

 
Another vote for still being unclear exactly what was exchanged. If Team A drew 3rd pick and Team B drew, 12th, did they swap draft positions all the way through or just specific picks/rounds?

We have a rule in our redraft league that you can't bring any form of outside compensation (money) into a league transaction. It's easy to spot in a league with simple settings because the transactions usually don't appear to make any sense. In more complex leagues (trading picks) it could be difficult to detect.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU said:
If it's a dynasty league, not redraft, league integrity comes into play again.  The team with the better pick cannot just trade them for money, he / she must trade for players or other picks for them.  If it's a redraft league it doesn't matter as much but as commish I wouldn't allow selling of picks.  They must be obtained via trade of other picks and be a fair trade.
Click to expand...


kutta said:
Based upon the OP, I’m pretty sure we are talking redraft here. I agree that it shouldn’t be allowed in dynasty.
Click to expand...
He mentioned serpentine draft. That pretty much locks in either an initial dynasty or redraft.  Most likely redraft.

 
kutta said:
This doesn’t sound like collusion to me. Sure, he shouldn’t have paid the guy, but if all they did was switch draft positions for the entire draft, I’d say no harm, no foul. 

You should make it clear that paying on the side is not allowed, but it’s not like one guy got a big advantage.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:  Making a big deal over nothing. Not even collusion.

Pay the people the money they're due and if don't want to happen again then install something for the future. Definitely case of sour grapes. Funny this just comes to light one day after the season finished. It's not collusion but a smart move by the owner getting $80 to simply swap spots in a redraft league serpentine draft.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hell most years I am the 11 or 12 pick and wouldn't have it any other way.  Seems to be more value on the whiparound.  On the rare occasion that I have a top 4 pick I'd sell it for a lower pick without hesitation (if there were not rules against it).  Someone dumb enough to pay my entry free (or most of it) to simply swap draft positions?  Sign me up.  Roster management is WAAAAAY more important than draft position most years just due to the nature of the sport.  So many injuries.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
Yup sounds like a bunch of bitter, sore losers.  
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm kind of confused by trying to fix an August "problem" after Christmas.  

Sdchargersfan1322 said:
My suggestion was putting all of the money towards next year, though the people in 1st, 2nd and 3rd place understandably want their money. Any ideas on how to handle this?
Click to expand...
This doesn't seem like a well reasoned solution.

Pay the money out.

Adjust your rules accordingly so it doesn't happen again.

Trading draft picks is allowed, but I don't see how swapping draft positions is an equitable trade. Moving up two spots in the first round is worth a late 2nd/early 3rd. That's a trade. Swapping draft positions isn't an even trade, but I guess somebody thought it was worth their $80 fee. Make a rule for next year if you don't want that to repeat, but you can't make up a rule now or roll the money over to next year just because four months later people don't like the end result.

 
Pwingles said:
I think its re draft, and i am saying , if they chose to swap picks, even through the entire draft, there is nothing wrong with that on the surface.

So the issue is the money, which i also think is shady. But in the future, after the OP or his commish or whoever decides to reverse that deal and make it clear that its not allowed... that people can still do it.

If you are suggesting that trading draft picks in re draft hurts league integrity, I think thats kinda silly. But then again, I also was told this weekend that chopping a prize pool in championship games, is the same as collusion and should be grounds for not being invited back to a league/quitting a league
Click to expand...
No I didn't insinuate that if it's a redraft it hurts league integrity, that was for dynasty leagues.

 
JohnnyU said:
No I didn't insinuate that if it's a redraft it hurts league integrity, that was for dynasty leagues.
Click to expand...
trading draft picks in general? or is this also in response to the money thing? Obviously the money aspect is sketchy no matter what the format of the league.

I must be mis understanding you. Certainly you are not saying trading draft picks in a dynasty league is in and of itself detrimental to the league integrity, right?

 
Pwingles said:
trading draft picks in general? or is this also in response to the money thing? Obviously the money aspect is sketchy no matter what the format of the league.

I must be mis understanding you. Certainly you are not saying trading draft picks in a dynasty league is in and of itself detrimental to the league integrity, right?
Click to expand...
No, trading draft picks for picks is fine, no matter what the league is, as long as it is a fair trade.  Trading picks for money isn't fine for dynasty leagues, period..  However, if someone is willing to give money just to swap positions in a REDRAFT league (say it's a serpentine draft) and they are that stupid, then have at it I guess.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sdchargersfan1322 said:
My league is over and evidence of collusion was sent in. Basically a member of the league paid another member of the league $80 to switch all of their draft spots.   The person that paid the $80 to switch draft spots won the league. My suggestion was putting all of the money towards next year, though the people in 1st, 2nd and 3rd place understandably want their money. Any ideas on how to handle this?
Click to expand...
Was he paid at the beginning of the year to swap spots and if so why wasn't the team or teams who ratted him out upset about it then?   You can't wait all season to complain about something after its all over and you didnt win.   Was it a matter of the owner who won saying after the fact...hey dude thanks for trading me at the  draft here is 80 bucks since I won?   Either way I dont see it as collusion  but rather bad business practice. 

 
gotcha

Part of the constitution in both of my Dynos is that you cannot give something for nothing, and you cannot exchange assets in return for IRL considerations. We dont really have a problem with shady stuff in my leagues, but if it did happen, there would be a set of rules that it violated, for us to deal with it.

 
Mr. Know-It-All said:
Hell most years I am the 11 or 12 pick and wouldn't have it any other way.  Seems to be more value on the whiparound.  On the rare occasion that I have a top 4 pick I'd sell it for a lower pick without hesitation (if there were not rules against it).  Someone dumb enough to pay my entry free (or most of it) to simply swap draft positions?  Sign me up.  Roster management is WAAAAAY more important than draft position most years just due to the nature of the sport.  So many injuries.
Click to expand...
This. I don’t care where I draft and if someone is gonna pay my buyin for me then even better. Free rolling and just manage as usual? I’d play with house money any day

 
Sdchargersfan1322 said:
The evidence is strong, the money was exchanged for sure. Team A had pick 3 originally, and Team B had the first pick. They basically traded draft spots so Team A picked at draft spot 1 every round essentially. It was a snake draft, so second round he picked at the back of the first, etc. They originally just said that Team B wanted Zeke so he was fine taking a later draft position. You aren’t allowed to pay to switch draft spots, but draft pick trading is allowed. 
Click to expand...
lol 1st Pay the monies 2nd Id try to consider some rules 3rd I'm afraid I can't begin to explain more because of the apparent PEBKAC   It appears that IF I was drafting "last" I could mysteriously somehow trade to move up and take the Top pick no questions asked (Unless I Win of course)  Once Step one is completed. I'd return and ask for some assistance and direction to help avoid such anguish in the League

It appears a shame that because of a W another manager feels owed anything more than a high five

 
Pwingles said:
I think its re draft, and i am saying , if they chose to swap picks, even through the entire draft, there is nothing wrong with that on the surface.

So the issue is the money, which i also think is shady. But in the future, after the OP or his commish or whoever decides to reverse that deal and make it clear that its not allowed... that people can still do it.

If you are suggesting that trading draft picks in re draft hurts league integrity, I think thats kinda silly. But then again, I also was told this weekend that chopping a prize pool in championship games, is the same as collusion and should be grounds for not being invited back to a league/quitting a league
Click to expand...
I have never heard this before and think this is ridiculous.  The prize pool has no impact on the championship game.  People should be able to split the prize pool however they want - they have earned the right to play for the title and the prize pool is thiers.  As long as the teams put forth their best teams there is no collusion.

 
CaptainJT said:
I have never heard this before and think this is ridiculous.  The prize pool has no impact on the championship game.  People should be able to split the prize pool however they want - they have earned the right to play for the title and the prize pool is thiers.  As long as the teams put forth their best teams there is no collusion.
Click to expand...
I've heard it before, the line is BS but some people believe you need to play exactly how the rules, including payouts are written.  

 
-OZ- said:
I've heard it before, the line is BS but some people believe you need to play exactly how the rules, including payouts are written.  
Click to expand...
lol really?  NEVER have heard this... what kind of control freak would tell the champion he's not allowed to give some of HIS OWN money to the 2nd place guy? 

Is he allowed to take him out for lunch?  What's he allowed to order?

 
More than anything, I’m stunned two teams would go to these lengths for $80. I guess everyone has a price. 

 
Why on earth is this just now an issue? Has OP addressed this? 

Surely you guys noticed the switch at the draft? I don't see how it wasn't apparent to anyone who wasn't blackout drunk...

Bizzare thread. Needs more info from OP, but right now as I understand it, I'd vote sore/oblivious losers and not collusion. 

 
Just to beat a dead horse some more.  If this was a random selection of draft spots in a serpentine redraft league and all these two teams did was exchange the number they drew out of the hat then there is absolutely nothing wrong with this and I would have no issue with it happening every year if someone was stupid enough to pay to exchange draft positions.  This is not collusion and has absolutely no bearing on the season whatsoever.  No advantage gained by switching draft spots.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

F
My Commissioner is Cheating
Replies
17
Views
1K
massraider
massraider
Tonycarpenter
Dynasty 2024 Draft pick Candidates Mid 2023 Season ranking
Replies
0
Views
1K
Tonycarpenter
Tonycarpenter
eighsse2
General Dynasty Strategy: "Evergreen"
Replies
9
Views
927
Tonycarpenter
Tonycarpenter

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top