ICON211
Footballguy
Yes. I'm good with bringing in just about anyone who could take Seth Roberts role.
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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter joey
- Start date
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I am warming to the Jordy signing. I just hope it works out better then past couple former Packer receiver signings ( Javon Walker, James Jones).
My understanding is Irvin is going to move to strong side DE and play with his hand in the ground. I think that is a good move. They plan to move Edwards to DT.
Doug Martin is an upgrade over the two slappies behind Lynch.
The defense still needs a lot of work. The dline is shaping up. They need one more oass rusher then focus on DBs.
My understanding is Irvin is going to move to strong side DE and play with his hand in the ground. I think that is a good move. They plan to move Edwards to DT.
Doug Martin is an upgrade over the two slappies behind Lynch.
The defense still needs a lot of work. The dline is shaping up. They need one more oass rusher then focus on DBs.
krsone21
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
thats what i thought....but massraider`s post made it sound like he was talking about the Ryan Grant that was a RB some years back...i probably read the post wrong because massraider is one the the most knowledgeable raider fans on here
Ed Wood
Footballguy
And he WAS part-time Lynch last year. How many times did he pull himself out of a games? Too many times.
I'm gonna show my ignorance here (I know...I've shown it plenty already) but do teams typically carry 4 tailbacks on a 53-man roster? And what about TE now? Carrier, Smith, Walford and Cook? All of them can't stick, can they?
Ed Wood
Footballguy
That's great since the Raiders' top cornerback last season felt like No. 117...
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I worry too that in thinking short term with Lynch and Martin, we are sacrificing serviceable youthful depth.
We have two solid but not spectacular backs in Richard and Washington who may not be 3-down starters but have proven to be assets in the running game in tandem, as well as a yet-unproven Elijah Hood -- and at least one of these guys will need to be gone. NFL teams rarely carry more than 4 backs.
Will be interesting to see if/when we grab an RB in the draft and how much of a top tier prospect he is -- and how much this will impact our running stable this year and into the future (assuming we're not really going to carry Lynch and/or Martin longer term).
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Is it crazy to think that with all the teams trading up to try and leverage a QB-heavy draft (wonder if the Bills trade up again for a shot at Rosen, Allen, Darnold, or at worst Mayfield), we're almost guaranteed a shot at one of the following:
Derwin James
Denzel Ward
Tremaine Edmunds
Minkah Fitzpatrick
Roquan Smith
Vita Vea
with a long, long shot (but still some small probability) that a guy like Chubb drops?
Smith and Vea still seem like the guys most likely to be there for us and who I see us choosing between, the rest way less so, but I think there is a real possibility Fitzpatrick drops to us now.
Derwin James
Denzel Ward
Tremaine Edmunds
Minkah Fitzpatrick
Roquan Smith
Vita Vea
with a long, long shot (but still some small probability) that a guy like Chubb drops?
Smith and Vea still seem like the guys most likely to be there for us and who I see us choosing between, the rest way less so, but I think there is a real possibility Fitzpatrick drops to us now.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Hood was mostly on the PS last year, and has a similar build (if not Beasty style) that Lynch has (both are 5'11, with Lynch listing at 215 and Hood at 220). Would think the team would want to develop Hood as the next Thunder, but with Martin in town, and also having to think about keeping Olawale, I am not sure the Raiders see Hood as the future in that role or expendable. I just think we have not given Hood a chance to see what he's got before a decision may need to be made to jettison him for room elsewhere.
Similarly with Richard and Washington, I think they are both talented and could develop a solid role, but I just can't see the Raiders being able to keep them both (if not wanting to).
Can't keep all of these guys, and would think that if a really solid RB prospect falls to us in the midrounds, our choice becomes that much harder. Feels like with the Muscle Hamster signing, we are really forcing our hand at our position by needing to shed weight here before we truly know what we have in the younger guys.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
If I remember right, we graduated Hood to active roster for a short period and then waived him. I didn't recall any transaction after that but I just checked the official Raider roster and he does show up there. I assume we resigned him to PS.
I think Olawale may be odd man out. Keith Smith is Gruden's Jon Ritchie here. 4 backs and 1 fullback is pretty full even so.
The TE is another full one. Lee Smith and Carrier are the blocking TE that Gruden wants. Then Cook and Walford. Interesting to see who doesn't make it.
massraider
Footballguy
Traded Cordarrelle Patterson, got Pats 5th, gave one of our 6th rounders.
More important, got 3.25 mill in cap space, maybe we needed it to sign Grant, if that happens, maybe we needed it to sign the new guys.
Regarding the backs, I think none of them should feel safe. We paid a million to see if Lynch is gonna come to camp and be a player.
More important, got 3.25 mill in cap space, maybe we needed it to sign Grant, if that happens, maybe we needed it to sign the new guys.
Regarding the backs, I think none of them should feel safe. We paid a million to see if Lynch is gonna come to camp and be a player.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Richard and Washington are similar backs. Don't see the need for that so one of them is probably gone.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Patterson makes sense. I don't remember much love for gadget type stuff from Gruden. The Pats did us a favor of clearing from our books and giving us a bit of a higher pick.
Gruden wants crisp routes ran with precision. Patterson... not so much.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Agree with the rest of youse -- Patterson played hard, brought some explosiveness and dynamism to our offense and was a credit to ST, but never seemed to stand out and contribute outside of the jet sweep. While he was solid at that play, it seemed to be the only trick in the bag and when CP was out on the field, you knew either the play that was being called, or that he was out there as decoy.
A lot of change, and a lot of uncertainty at how all of these changes will play out. But if this shakes us out of the path we were on through last year and allows us to fill the considerable gaps on this team to give us a fighting chance to stay ahead in the division and get into the playoffs, let's do it, baby.
A lot of change, and a lot of uncertainty at how all of these changes will play out. But if this shakes us out of the path we were on through last year and allows us to fill the considerable gaps on this team to give us a fighting chance to stay ahead in the division and get into the playoffs, let's do it, baby.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I don’t believe Richard or Washington are anywhere close to a solution at RB. Both have been e tremely inconsistent and Richard is more of a liability given all the fumbles.
msommer
Footballguy
Yet, this summer there were those in the previous threads that saw him as a viable WR3 candidate.
GL to BB teaching him new tricks...
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Speaking of raiders wr, who will back up Jordy? There could be a deep dynasty stash for when he misses time.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I was a big proponent of Patterson. Not so much for being a viable #3 but rather his ability to open the playbook up and add another ripple to the offense. Instead, we got an offense that got even more unimaginative and sophomoric under Downing. Hell, he could have been given more go routes to try to use his speed to open up things.... not like it would be any different if he droppoed the ball from Roberts. I think Patterson could have done more under a more competent coach but as far as being a true WR? No.
I think NE is looking at it as a low cost upgrade to return game and ability to add to the offense as discussed above. They certainly have the ability to use guys to create gameplans. He isn't a top WR but he has a specific skill set that cam add value. Just not tge calue Gruden wants. I would like to see the Patriots try to make him a big part of the offense because if so he is likely to give Brady a stroke with his route running.
kaso
Footballguy
Have to say that I'm getting pretty excited about the NFL draft and the Raiders 10th overall selection. In the past, being in 10 was that odd spot of hoping to land one of the top 10 overall guys while hoping that a team ahead of you selected someone out of the blue that would at least allow for a choice of one of the remaining two top 10 guys.
But this draft is starting to shape up in the favor of the Raiders, imo.
Not hard to argue that picks 1 through 3 are going to be QBs. The challenge will be in which team is picking at spot 2 - NYG or Buffalo.
1. Cleveland - QB
2. NYG/Buffalo - QB
3. Jets - QB
4. Cleveland - Barkley... or trade back? Which allows for Buffalo or even Miami to try to get infront of Denver and select a QB.
5. Broncos - QB?!...
Or if Cleveland stays, and the Broncos don't select a QB, then there is a chance that either the Bucs or Bears trade back to allow for someone to come up and grab a QB.
And all of a sudden, the Raiders are ~5 picks away from landing one of the top non-QB players in the draft.
Edited to add: Sorry Stoppin' Tom - didn't realize that you made basically the exact same post a few comments back.
But this draft is starting to shape up in the favor of the Raiders, imo.
Not hard to argue that picks 1 through 3 are going to be QBs. The challenge will be in which team is picking at spot 2 - NYG or Buffalo.
1. Cleveland - QB
2. NYG/Buffalo - QB
3. Jets - QB
4. Cleveland - Barkley... or trade back? Which allows for Buffalo or even Miami to try to get infront of Denver and select a QB.
5. Broncos - QB?!...
Or if Cleveland stays, and the Broncos don't select a QB, then there is a chance that either the Bucs or Bears trade back to allow for someone to come up and grab a QB.
And all of a sudden, the Raiders are ~5 picks away from landing one of the top non-QB players in the draft.
Edited to add: Sorry Stoppin' Tom - didn't realize that you made basically the exact same post a few comments back.
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I don't think there was much confidence that he would be a solid WR3 as opposed to hope that it might pan out that way to fill the hole that Roberts/Horton haven't yet-- but that's my perspective.
True that -- not sure if Patterson could have developed into more than just a jet sweep guy, but the coaching/play calling certainly never gave him any chance to find out.
Pats lost Slater and Lewis, both big attributes to the Pats' ST game, and CP fills that gap for them. Maybe BB can find a way to develop his talent in ways we never gave him a shot to.
LawFitz
Footballguy
BB will get a great deal out of Patterson. He'll start the season doing returns and gunner work, but will finish the season a key contributor to their offense as well, even if just as a slot WR / 3rd down RB hybrid. I will miss Mr. Flashy, but this is the Gruden show now and clearly Chuckie sees better fits elsewhere for his scheme. :(
massraider
Footballguy
Because of the way this draft class is shaking out, we are going to get a shot at a top defender, something we cannot plan on in the future.
With three QBs going before us, MINIMUM, and probably 4, and maybe 5 (I would not be surprised to see Lamar Jackson get taken), if we assume Chubb, Barkley, and Nelson going before us, we'll be looking at Edwards, Smith for sure, but I hope Landry and Hurst are on that list. Getting a pass rusher is vital to helping this defense.
We should be thinking about Derwin James as well. We have safeties, but he's just so damn good.
With three QBs going before us, MINIMUM, and probably 4, and maybe 5 (I would not be surprised to see Lamar Jackson get taken), if we assume Chubb, Barkley, and Nelson going before us, we'll be looking at Edwards, Smith for sure, but I hope Landry and Hurst are on that list. Getting a pass rusher is vital to helping this defense.
We should be thinking about Derwin James as well. We have safeties, but he's just so damn good.
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
Sounds like we made an offer but he is looking to see what else he may get. I don't think the market will be too robust for him so I think we can bring him back and not over pay.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
We really need a WR at some point. I still think the Raiders draft a RB in the mid rounds if one falls to them as well simply because there are a lot of good RBs this year. But, I get your point and totally agree. Take the BPA for D early and often.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
As excited as I am about who out of the top prospects might drop to us in a very QB-needy top of the draft (liek Fitzpatrick or Ward, if I am putting money on who actually we're going to be looking at, the greatest probability is the choice between Roquan Smith and Vita Vea.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
As would I, but consensus seems to value Trumaine Edmunds a little more at the LB position (who I can't see lasting until us -- certainly if he's still there by the 9ers pick @#9, that's where he'll go) and I can't help but think if a guy like Minkah Fitzpatrick is there for us, I would want him a little more than Smith or Vea given greater relational/positional importance of CB/Ss in the league.
We're getting a blue chipper regardless, so as long as we go BPA on D at #10, excited regardless of who falls to us.
massraider
Footballguy
I don't think Vea is a serious consideration.
Below average pass rushers are not top 10 picks, and run stuffing DTs aren't either.
Below average pass rushers are not top 10 picks, and run stuffing DTs aren't either.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
What is pretty clear is Reggie values big, strong men in the trenches and CBs with length. Every draft you will hear him say player X is "country strong." We see evidence of this in their pursuit of DBs. Reggie prefers taller CBs with long arms. Conley is a taller CB, as was Hyden. Rashaan Melvin is a very tall CB. So if history is our guide it is not likely they draft Ward. Likely, R. Smith may not be a consideration because of his size. My guess is the guys in play are Vea, D. James, and Edmunds IMO. (I am assuming Fitzpatrick and Chubb will be long gone by their pick)
massraider
Footballguy
Raiders traded Olawale to Dallas.
I liked Olawale, but did we actually just get something for a fullback?
I liked Olawale, but did we actually just get something for a fullback?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Bills almost lock to trade up again if they find a dance partner.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles RobinsonVerified account @CharlesRobinson
A league source tells Yahoo Sports the Buffalo #Bills will explore trade scenarios to move into the top five picks in the #NFL draft (QB-needy #Jets hold 6th pick). Talks are expected to materialize after first week of free agency and intensify at the Orlando owner's meetings.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vontaze isn't a three down LB or the long term answer at MLB. Not sure if he will be their but Roquan Smith is really good.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sigmund Bloom @SigmundBloom 1d1 day ago
Sigmund Bloom Retweeted Ben Natan
“As much as I love Tremaine Edmunds, Roquan Smith is among the top three best players in this class, period.”
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I liked Jamazing too, and sad to see him go, but writing was on the wall when we signed Keith Smith. Gruden likes his guys and glad he's molding the team to his own vision aggressively, even if it means letting loose players I've come to like and respect.Likely Gruden sees Smith as more of an every-down blocker and less of the H-back specialist Olawale was, and it's a continuance of the signal that we're going to commit more to running the ball, which should open up our playbook (PA, less pressure in the defensive backfield as teams crowd the box, makes us less predictable, etc.).
As to getting something for a FB, on the face of it we nabbed the Cowboys' FB on a team-friendly deal while the Cowboys needed to trade down to get our FB (swapping their 5th for our 6th). I'm no cap expert, but we may have come out ahead or at best broke even.
Either way, time to use whatever we have to finally sew up Bowman. We should be letting loose of Walford to ensure we get that deal done and bring in a WR3 like Hurns or even Decker. Not huge boosters of either WRs but they are definitely serviceable and much better than the options we have behind Coop and Jordy.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
It is even better than that.... we got something for a fullback we were going to cut.
massraider
Footballguy
Suh is visiting.
?
Raider Twitter bout to go crazy.
?
Raider Twitter bout to go crazy.
ICON211
Footballguy
I suspect he will go to the highest bidder, which will most likely not be us, but the Raiders could really use an interior pass rush.
I'm not so sure. He's made his money. And he is a West coast guy. I can see him going to Oakland or Seattle.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Given the frequent flyer miles Suh is racking up (New Orleans, Tennesee, Los Angeles, and now us), I doubt he is visiting so many teams with an eye of taking a pay cut, as opposed to seeing how he can increase his value by creating a bidding situation.Bruno2 said:
Agree with @ICON211 that he'll go to a higher bidder, which given our cap situation, won't be us. Said another way, why would we pass on paying big bucks to a guy playing in a position of desperate need like Malcolm Butler, Tru Johnson, or a make a run at Fuller, but then pay those big bucks to Suh?
We would gain some Jack Tatum/Bill Romonowski-like dirtiness back, but at too high a cost.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Not expecting anything to come put of it but you don't know unless you try. I like that we are bringing him in for a visit and I am sure they will pitch him hard even if they don't offer the most cash. I put our chances at less than 10%
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
he will play for the most money regardless of teamICON211 said:
massraider
Footballguy
Two important things to remember:
1. He's been a free agent for a few days. He's not received a monster offer from someone that has blown everyone else away. It's clearly a different market for him now than it was three years ago.
2. More important, if he's visiting, it means the money is close. He's not coming to Oakland to get a free dinner. His agent has already discussed parameters with every team. It's not like they don't talk money until he flies in.
Our cap is in a great long term place, being tight for one year is not a problem. We can do a signing bonus, and a guaranteed roster bonus/salary for next year to get him to any two year dollar amount is necessary. This team can carry huge numbers next year for Mack, Cooper, and Suh, and still have 30-40 mill in cap space without a problem.
1. He's been a free agent for a few days. He's not received a monster offer from someone that has blown everyone else away. It's clearly a different market for him now than it was three years ago.
2. More important, if he's visiting, it means the money is close. He's not coming to Oakland to get a free dinner. His agent has already discussed parameters with every team. It's not like they don't talk money until he flies in.
Our cap is in a great long term place, being tight for one year is not a problem. We can do a signing bonus, and a guaranteed roster bonus/salary for next year to get him to any two year dollar amount is necessary. This team can carry huge numbers next year for Mack, Cooper, and Suh, and still have 30-40 mill in cap space without a problem.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I think the Raiders would have to beat the Rams offer by a fairly large margin to get Suh to pass up on Donald, Phillips and L.A. NV state income tax doesn't kick in for two more years, so that's not a big help, if looking to protect the cap beyond year two when structuring the deal. I perceive Suh to be a cap-space eating dominant player, but not a cornerstone team leader. Only way I can get on board with signing him to a big deal is it pays him considerably less than Mack. That said, he's a top 5 DL in his prime and would fill a huge hole in the lineup. Adding Suh, Gunther and another class of rookies could do wonders for the D.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
I think the prospect of playing with Irvin and Mack has to be appealing to him. With Suh clogging up the middle and Irvin and Mack on the edges, and dare I say, a healthy Conley on one side, this defense would get infinitely better. Is he worth the money someone is going to pay to get him? Probably not....but I think it will be pretty close. I say sign him if we can and cut somewhere else to make room.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Reportedly restructured Lynch deal to save a little money in cap but made it largely guaranteed. All indications is Gruden is all on board with Lynch being his main focus in the run game.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Suh cancelled his visit with us. Not shocked. I don't think we were ever in serious contention.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Solid move for both sides -- frees cap space, gives Lynch a little more love (despite his aloofness, he was a top 15 back in yardage on a much lower # of carries as he barely cracked 200) to hopefully motivate him to be the battering ram we need him to be.
While I won't get down on the opportunity cost of missing out on Suh, if he does go to the Rams, really looks like they are the team to beat next year. Eagles deserve their props, but man that Rams team is shaping up to be scary.
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