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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (2 Viewers)

Bruno2 said:
So do you view Miller as a project? Curious what others think of him. I haven't heard much talk about him being groomed as strictly a LT or if he's capable of winning the RT spot for the time being (since its obviously the weak spot on the Oline.) Then taking over at LT when Penn hangs 'em up.
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The team started Miller at LT, and Parker at RT during OTAs and rookie camp.  

I hope both stay there indefinitely.  RT might be the only question for this year, but I don't think a young guy with technique that needs to be polished is the answer there.  

If they see Miller as a LT, put him there.  If it's true his footwork is subpar, switching sides for a year seems like the absolute worst move a team could make.  

The team has Giacomi, Parker, Sharpe, Vadal, Jylan, there's a whole bunch of guys to fight over RT.  

If Penn stays healthy, we shouldn't see Miller until next year.  

 
massraider said:
The team started Miller at LT, and Parker at RT during OTAs and rookie camp.  

I hope both stay there indefinitely.  RT might be the only question for this year, but I don't think a young guy with technique that needs to be polished is the answer there.  

If they see Miller as a LT, put him there.  If it's true his footwork is subpar, switching sides for a year seems like the absolute worst move a team could make.  

The team has Giacomi, Parker, Sharpe, Vadal, Jylan, there's a whole bunch of guys to fight over RT.  

If Penn stays healthy, we shouldn't see Miller until next year.  
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I hope we do not see Giacomini or Vadal starting at RT week 1.  I do not think either of these guys are a starting caliber tackle.  I don't think we know enough about Ware or Sharpe to make that determination yet.  I think Miller is going to get a shot at being the starting RT.  I believe Gruden said something to the effect of - he's at LT now but that may not be where ends up this year - in regards to Miller playing LT at rookie camp.

 
massraider said:
If they see Miller as a LT, put him there.  If it's true his footwork is subpar, switching sides for a year seems like the absolute worst move a team could make.  

The team has Giacomi, Parker, Sharpe, Vadal, Jylan, there's a whole bunch of guys to fight over RT.  
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ICON211 said:
I hope we do not see Giacomini or Vadal starting at RT week 1.  I do not think either of these guys are a starting caliber tackle.  I don't think we know enough about Ware or Sharpe to make that determination yet.  I think Miller is going to get a shot at being the starting RT.  I believe Gruden said something to the effect of - he's at LT now but that may not be where ends up this year - in regards to Miller playing LT at rookie camp.
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@Bruno2, I don't see Miller as a project but as a rookie. His talent seems to be the real deal, but the learning curve in the NFL at LT is steep. A good progression would be developing into a dependable rotational guy this year.

Agree that forcing a guy into an unnatural position doesn't always work. But Miller has the chops to get reps in this year in rotation on both sides of the line. Would be thrilled if that happened, and would definitely help his development so he can take over the spot full time next year.

I agree that Vadal doesn't look NFL starting caliber -- Giacomini has shown that he can be at least, but he has declined with age. Ware is a project -- and a mountain at 6'7 315lb+ so will be interesting to see if he can develop at RT. Perhaps Sharpe, who normally plays LT, can also chip in on the right side.

Either way, we're still shaky overall at RT. Maybe the team believes Miller's talent can supersede the switch to the right enough for him to start. Guess we'll see in training camp how that works out.

My bet right now is Giacomini starts but it's an RTBC all year. 

 
ICON211 said:
I hope we do not see Giacomini or Vadal starting at RT week 1.  I do not think either of these guys are a starting caliber tackle.  I don't think we know enough about Ware or Sharpe to make that determination yet.  I think Miller is going to get a shot at being the starting RT.  I believe Gruden said something to the effect of - he's at LT now but that may not be where ends up this year - in regards to Miller playing LT at rookie camp.
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Yeah, I don't have full confidence in all those guys. 

One thing about Breno, I saw two HOU games on NFL Network yesterday, two DeShaun Watson amazing 400 yards and multiple TD games, 30+ point games.  Breno was the RT for both games.  My only point about mentioning all those guys is that we have candidates, some of whom are mysteries, and some that have started at RT before.  Unless Miller is a prodigy, and in September is going to be better than all other candidates at RT by a big margin, I want him to stay on the left, learn from Penn, and get his footwork right (if the draft talk is accurate).  

 
Michael Gehlken
‏@GehlkenNFL
DE Fadol Brown having quality reps today as edge rusher vs. RT Jylan Ware. He’s made a leap in Year 2.  Browns GM John Dorsey courted him late in 2017 as rookie on Raiders’ practice squad. Brown looks poised to make 53-man roster this year.

 
krsone21 said:
Michael Gehlken
‏@GehlkenNFL
DE Fadol Brown having quality reps today as edge rusher vs. RT Jylan Ware. He’s made a leap in Year 2.  Browns GM John Dorsey courted him late in 2017 as rookie on Raiders’ practice squad. Brown looks poised to make 53-man roster this year.
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I hope he's right and it's not just a case of Ware being a waste of roster space.

 
Oakland fans, what kind of impact do you think Martavis can have?  Giving up a 3rd for him was decent enough capital.

 
Sarlakticacid said:
I was disappointed with the pants effort but dude still has moves

was he there to DJ for that session?
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Yep -- slim-leg track pants. Times have changed. 

Exciting to hear guys like Whitehead and Marquel Lee stepping up in OTAs, as it gives me hope that our defensive middle will not be as patchwork as it seems. We'll see as they put the pads on through camp.

In other (unsurprising) news, Mack looks like he'll be a holdout when mandatory minicamp begins. Not sure we have leverage over timing given that between him and Donald, neither of them want to be first, but we seem to have been preparing for the $20M hit this will likely be through roster moves, so whenever it happens we should be prepared to pony up gladly for Mack's services.

 
So every year i go to the Boxing hall of fame in Canastota NY ...one of the events is a banquet ........i skipped it for the first time ...and guess who showed up to honor his friend Jim Grey who inducted ...Mark Davis...i cant believe it ...im pissed 

 
Speaking of Mark Davis...

i was watching the Stanley Cup Finals, and in the last game in Vegas, who was sitting right at ice level behind the goalie but Mark Davis. Man, you can recognize that hair cut from a million miles away. 

 
Raiders continue to fill out their 90 man roster with depth, bringing in DTs Frostee Rucker and Ahtyba Rubin. 

I don't expect either to make the final roster -- both journeymen are past prime and largely ineffective and I don't expect them to be anything but pushing the younger guys in camp competition. Maybe provide some learning opportunities, but it's not like these guys have flashed enough to warrant that their skill set is worth passing on.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Raiders continue to fill out their 90 man roster with depth, bringing in DTs Frostee Rucker and Ahtyba Rubin. 

I don't expect either to make the final roster -- both journeymen are past prime and largely ineffective and I don't expect them to be anything but pushing the younger guys in camp competition. Maybe provide some learning opportunities, but it's not like these guys have flashed enough to warrant that their skill set is worth passing on.
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100% agree.  

Part of me wonders if all these vets weren't brought in to increase the professionalism of the team.  Every important member of the team is young, and I wonder if the coaching staff figured all the young defenders wouldn't benefit more from watching vets work, than beating out a UDFA with no chance.

 
massraider said:
100% agree.  

Part of me wonders if all these vets weren't brought in to increase the professionalism of the team.  Every important member of the team is young, and I wonder if the coaching staff figured all the young defenders wouldn't benefit more from watching vets work, than beating out a UDFA with no chance.
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McKenzie did this three years ago but he brought in IIRC something like 12 total super bowl rings and the Raiders went 12-4. That isn't what is happening now, Rubin and Rucker aren't key components of Super Bowl champions who are aging out, they're just experienced NFL players. Big deal.

For some reason I worry that Gruden is going to age the roster prematurely by giving preferential treatment to experience over ability. 

 
Chaka said:
McKenzie did this three years ago but he brought in IIRC something like 12 total super bowl rings and the Raiders went 12-4. That isn't what is happening now, Rubin and Rucker aren't key components of Super Bowl champions who are aging out, they're just experienced NFL players. Big deal.

For some reason I worry that Gruden is going to age the roster prematurely by giving preferential treatment to experience over ability. 
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same.  regardless of his statements to the contrary, i think gruden is stuck in the past

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Waldman has a really great and insightful "contrarian" article on the Raiders' skill positions and why they may be undervalued. But what really resonated with me is how Waldman very credibly points out that, rather than having the game pass him by, Gruden knows EXACTLY what he is doing to bolster the team's strengths at the same time as he is attacking the weaknesses inherent in today's NFL defenses -- something Gruden wouldn't be doing if he truly lost sight of today's NFL game.

For example, today's Ds favor nickel fronts -- 6 in the box (4 up, 2 LBs) and an extra CB to counter today's spread 3 or 4 receiver sets. Personnel in these D's is physically much different these days as well -- lighter, quicker LBs and safeties who are built to cover a wider range. 

So what does Gruden do? Commits to leveraging the heavy battering ram we have in Lynch and sheds Olawale for a true smashmouth FB who helped lead the way for one of the leagues most prolific rushing attacks. Signs a guy like Martin who has plenty of question marks, but is in every way more of true fill-in for Lynch than scatbacks Washington or Richard could ever be. Attacking modern day lighterweight Ds in their true area of weakness.

Gruden is also best utilizing the skillset of his team -- Penn and Osemele can be nasty roadgraders, and the selection of Miller, along with Hudson and Jackson, forms a solid core all the way across the line that will allow us to get the most out of the left side while they still have the chops.

Rather than having the game leave him behind, Gruden is adeptly zigging while the league continues to zag. Waldman also points out that this is a tried and true formula -- the success of the Ravens and Seahawks over the last five years was predicated on the same dedication to churning out production in yards and attempts, in overpowering Ds through sheet volume and intent of will.

It's the part of the season where my glasses tend to be very rosy with hope and expectation. But this was a great article that backs my optimism in thinking this Raider team, if they stay healthy, execute, get the most out of their players and their overall commitment, will be much closer to their 2016 form than their 2017 debacles.  
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This is what I have been saying. It has been clear Gruden is attacking the lightweight D's that have gone small and fast due to the hyper focus on the passing game. 

The only thing thay threw me and I am curious to see how it plays out was hiring Cable for the Oline. Our Oline being built for the power block scheme and Gruden building towards that then bringing Cable who is a ZBS guru. I have read that there are concepts of the ZBS with pin and pull that can work together but that is above my pay grade so I will take it on faith.

 
Chaka said:
McKenzie did this three years ago but he brought in IIRC something like 12 total super bowl rings and the Raiders went 12-4. That isn't what is happening now, Rubin and Rucker aren't key components of Super Bowl champions who are aging out, they're just experienced NFL players. Big deal.

For some reason I worry that Gruden is going to age the roster prematurely by giving preferential treatment to experience over ability. 
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I know its early on in the process and it's all speculation now, but I disagree. Here's why: 

The draft proved one thing, the Gruden camp has put a premium on OTs and protecting Carr. They got younger on the Oline.

They have youth mixed with experience on the Dline. I can see Carradine and Rubin possibly making the final roster, but Rucker, I doubt it. I gotta believe Hurst and Hall will see a lot of snaps.

The LBs have youth with Morrow getting a lot of reps. I can see him playing a lot this year. With Johnson being a coach on the field. 

The secondary has to be improved. After watching the re-air of the Raiders, KC game today on the NFL Network, sending Smith and Amerson out the door has to be a positive. They were garbage... Conley and Melvin should be a huge upgrade. Right? Hopefully...

I think the addition of Gilchrist to the safety group will be a huge improvement. 

To me the WR group of Jordy, Cooper, Bryant and Roberts sounds a lot better than Crabtree, Coop, Roberts and Holton.

Bottom line, theres a bunch of youth scattered all over the roster. The downside is,  most of them are unproven. The vets were brought in to push the young guys. You all really think the likes of Leon Hall, Rucker etc are going to see more playing time than the young players? I for one doubt it. But that's just my opinion. 

 
Bruno2 said:
I know its early on in the process and it's all speculation now, but I disagree. Here's why: 

The draft proved one thing, the Gruden camp has put a premium on OTs and protecting Carr. They got younger on the Oline.

They have youth mixed with experience on the Dline. I can see Carradine and Rubin possibly making the final roster, but Rucker, I doubt it. I gotta believe Hurst and Hall will see a lot of snaps.

The LBs have youth with Morrow getting a lot of reps. I can see him playing a lot this year. With Johnson being a coach on the field. 

The secondary has to be improved. After watching the re-air of the Raiders, KC game today on the NFL Network, sending Smith and Amerson out the door has to be a positive. They were garbage... Conley and Melvin should be a huge upgrade. Right? Hopefully...

I think the addition of Gilchrist to the safety group will be a huge improvement. 

To me the WR group of Jordy, Cooper, Bryant and Roberts sounds a lot better than Crabtree, Coop, Roberts and Holton.

Bottom line, theres a bunch of youth scattered all over the roster. The downside is,  most of them are unproven. The vets were brought in to push the young guys. You all really think the likes of Leon Hall, Rucker etc are going to see more playing time than the young players? I for one doubt it. But that's just my opinion. 
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I like this better, Cooper, Nelson, Bryant, Switzer, and Ateman.  Compared to Cooper, Crabtree, Roberts, Patterson and Holton. Notice how I left out Roberts in the first grouping. Even though it won't be a cap savings I think Roberts may be on his way out the door.

 
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Yeah, I like Seth Roberts because he made a couple really clutch catches two years ago but he has been so inconsistent, and had what seems like far more terrible drops so I could easily see him not making the final roster.

 
Chaka said:
Yeah, I like Seth Roberts because he made a couple really clutch catches two years ago but he has been so inconsistent, and had what seems like far more terrible drops so I could easily see him not making the final roster.
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Yeah people seem to remember his drops a lot more than his clutch catches. I think Roberts gets a bad rap being the undrafted free agent while Cooper gets the pass because he's the uber-talented 1st round draft pick. But Coop has been way more inconsistent. I'm anxious to see if Gruden is able to light a fire under his a$$ this season. 

 
I've had a chance to catch a couple NFL replays on my staycation this week. As luck would have it, two of them were Texans games (vs Pat's and Hawks) and the Colts v. Steelers.

I specifically watched Giacomini against two good defensive fronts and I gotta say, I feel much better about the signing. I didn't see him give up one sack against the Pat's and the Hawks. And he was really active in the run game. The Texans had him pulling a lot. And he was getting out there and making crucial blocks to spring Miller. I'm sure he wasn't perfect, but to my untrained eye, he definitely looked like he was doing his job most of the time. I think he'll do a fine job at RT until one of the young guys is ready.

The Colts v. Steelers was interesting because I wanted to see how Melvin held up against Brown/Bryant/Shuster.  And again, I thought he played really well against one of the best WRs and WR trios in the league last season.  He held Brown without a TD and one of his lowest yardage outputs of last year. Melvin held Brown in check all game until one of the final plays of the game where Ben extended the play and Brown broke free of Melvin. 

Bottom line, somebody has been watching a lot of tape in the Raiders organization. Two names in FA this year that no one really blinked an eye at might just as well be huge contributors this season for the Raiders. If they do turn it around, Giacomini and Melvin are two unassuming players that just might be making a difference come October. 

 
Losing Martavis would be a huge blow to the Raiders.  I am sick.

Also, the Steelers absolutely fleeced the Raiders if Martavis does not play again. 

 
One LV reporter with the story, saying Raiders 'fear' another suspension.

None of the NFL info guys with any confirmation.   

Rapaport:

There is some issue with Martavis Bryant, but it’s not clear if it’ll cause a delay (like last year before camp), a quick fix via paperwork or a suspension. All was well when Bryant met at the NFL Offices in late April
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Vic Tafur:

#Raiders WR Martavis Bryant has not been notified by the NFL yet of any pending discipline, I am told.
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I'm in wait and see mode.  If it's true, there'll be plenty of time to question the move (It's questionable, period, really).  

 
massraider said:
One LV reporter with the story, saying Raiders 'fear' another suspension.

None of the NFL info guys with any confirmation.   

Rapaport:

Vic Tafur:

I'm in wait and see mode.  If it's true, there'll be plenty of time to question the move (It's questionable, period, really).  
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I gotta think they checked into this stuff before giving up a 3rd rounder for him.

 
Bruno2 said:
I gotta think they checked into this stuff before giving up a 3rd rounder for him.
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I'm sure they did but that wouldn't prevent Bryant from ####### up after the deal.  Maybe he missed a test or a diluted sample or he just came up dirty. 

 
From what I have read on the twitters, whatever the perceived violation is a “grey area” meaning it was a missed test or some nonsense. I have always wonder about punishing a player for a missed test. Can’t they take a sample of hair and determine if a player violated the drug policy? My understanding is a hair sample is the most accurate test over a longer period. Seems ridiculous to punish someone cuz they miss a pee test.

 
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32 Counter Pass said:
From what I have read on the twitters, whatever the perceived violation is a “grey area” meaning it was a missed test or some nonsense. I have always wonder about punishing a player for a missed test. Can’t they take a sample of hair and determine if a player violated the drug policy? My understanding is a hair sample is the most accurate test over a longer period. Seems ridiculous to punish someone cuz they miss a pee test.
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well if you miss it they presume you missed because you knew you were dirty....its not like they dont warn you

 
32 Counter Pass said:
From what I have read on the twitters, whatever the perceived violation is a “grey area” meaning it was a missed test or some nonsense. I have always wonder about punishing a player for a missed test. Can’t they take a sample of hair and determine if a player violated the drug policy? My understanding is a hair sample is the most accurate test over a longer period. Seems ridiculous to punish someone cuz they miss a pee test.
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A missed test is not grey area, it is spelled out to be a failed test in the CBA.

If there is any grey area it is likely to be in the amount and potentially a difference between the a sample and the b sample

 
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