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Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2018: Finalists (1 Viewer)

Yogibear

Yogibear

Footballguy
Well, the list of finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2018 was revealed last night.  Here it is:

Tony Boselli

Isaac Bruce

Brian Dawkins

Alan Faneca

Steve Hutchinson

Joe Jacoby

Edgerrin James

Ty Law

Ray Lewis

John Lynch

Kevin Mawae

Randy Moss

Terrell Owens

Brian Urlacher

Everson Walls

Looking at the list, two names stick out: Ray Lewis & Randy Moss because both were named in the documentary about the Top 100 Players of All-Time that was featured on NFL Network.  Now, keep in mind that Robert Brazile and Jerry Kramer are the Senior Finalists and Bobby Beathard is the Contributor Finalist.  But, who do you think has the best chance of getting into Canton in 2018?

 
Owens deserves to be in.

2nd in receiving yards, 3rd in receiving TDs, 8th in receptions.  His overall numbers are better than Moss'.

 
dutch said:
My vote would be:

Lewis

Urlacher

Moss

Owens

Hutchinson
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I'd put Edge in over hutch but either is a fine pick. Agree completely with the rest, those 4 should be locks.

 
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Thinking we need to start calling this the Hall of not Randy Gradishar. IMO he's the most glaring miss the hall has made through the years. I understand that's my opinion and others will have varying views. 

 
Hooper31 said:
Thinking we need to start calling this the Hall of not Randy Gradishar. IMO he's the most glaring miss the hall has made through the years. I understand that's my opinion and others will have varying views. 
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Won't disagree that he's worthy, he's woefully underappreciated as the centerpiece of one of the most fearsome Ds of his era (and this from a Raider fan), but there seem to me (IMO) to be a lot of guys that have been glaring omissions over the years:

  • Jerry Kramer 
  • Jim Marshall
  • Joe Jacoby
  • Roger Craig
  • Steve Tasker
  • Johnny Robinson
  • Ken Stabler while he was alive, Jim Plunkett now.
  • Gil Brandt
 
Hooper31 said:
Known? If you think this is true its because you WANT to think its true. 
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Did you even read the article, or have you read about the case? The victims BLOOD was in HIS LIMO how does this happen unless you either did the crime or know who did it? He plead out to prosecutors saying he would finger his friends and then gave them no info after he had a signed deal. Either he did the crime and used the system to get off, or he knew what happened and got the killer off by not giving evidence to the DA. 

Clear case of a criminal using his fame to get off, or save his friends. Why else did he give the family a settlement years later??  :no:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1793514

Add that to repeated charges he beat the pregnant mother oh his children, and he is NOT Hall of Fame Worthy. Being an elite athlete should not mean you get a free pass. The hall of fame is a shire for the best of the NFL, and I hope he does not get the votes.  

P.S. And before you throw O.J. at me he was in the hall before he had his errrrrrr legal issues. And if it was up to me he would have been removed from the hall. 

 
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Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Won't disagree that he's worthy, he's woefully underappreciated as the centerpiece of one of the most fearsome Ds of his era (and this from a Raider fan), but there seem to me (IMO) to be a lot of guys that have been glaring omissions over the years:

  • Johnny Robinson
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Robinson is that glaring historic omission for me. Was arguably the best DB in the NFL in the 60's. Has a Super Bowl ring, and played in Super Bowl 1. Jim Tyrer follows a similar argument at OT. Those Chiefs teams are very underrepresented. 

 
dutch said:
My vote would be:

Lewis

Urlacher

Moss

Owens

Hutchinson
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Why Hutchinson over Faneca? Both made the 2000s All-Decade team. Both were twice 2nd team All-Pro. Both played the same position. 

Faneca was first team All-Pro 6 times, Hutchinson 5. Hutchinson made 7 Pro Bowls, Faneca 9. Faneca has a SB ring, Hutchinson does not. 

I don't see any objective statistical measure that would support Hutchinson over Faneca. So, I'm curious why I've seen his name mentioned a few times in this thread and Faneca's not once. Not looking for a debate, just curious. 

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Why Hutchinson over Faneca? Both made the 2000s All-Decade team. Both were twice 2nd team All-Pro. Both played the same position. 

Faneca was first team All-Pro 6 times, Hutchinson 5. Hutchinson made 7 Pro Bowls, Faneca 9. Faneca has a SB ring, Hutchinson does not. 

I don't see any objective statistical measure that would support Hutchinson over Faneca. So, I'm curious why I've seen his name mentioned a few times in this thread and Faneca's not once. Not looking for a debate, just curious. 
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Both are going to the hall so I picked the one that had a career not marred by playing for the Steelers. 

 
dutch said:
Both are going to the hall so I picked the one that had a career not marred by playing for the Steelers. 
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Good point.  Wearing the black and gold often has a deleterious effect on a player's chances to make the Hall of Fame.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Good point.  Wearing the black and gold often has a deleterious effect on a player's chances to make the Hall of Fame.
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Don't know about all that but it does point to poor judgement and major character issues which in itself should block someone from immediate induction, a la Owens, etc...

 
Ray Lewis is in first ballot.  The murder rap was long enough ago I don't think it comes up, and based on his play he's a first balloter without question.

Owens should get in.  He should have been a first balloter, but I think his numbers overcome the bias this year.

Hutchinson should be a lock.  7 pro bowls, 5 first team All Pro's, undisputed best player at his position for a good chunk of his career.  However Faneca has waited longer, and has more pro bowls and more all pros, and also considered one of the best.  I think Faneca gets in this year and Hutchinson waits.

I'm not sure if both Lewis and Urlacher get in, and if both Moss and Owens get in.  My hunch is that Urlacher waits a year and gets in next year.  Moss I think gets in this year, but there's a chance he waits a year too.  I'll call Moss to get in for now.

Last spot I think is either Lynch or Dawkins.  Lynch - 9 pro bowls, 2 all-pro. 736 tackles, 26 int's, 16 forced fumbles.  Dawkins has  9 pro bowls, 4 all pro. 895 tackles, 37 ints, 36 forced fumbles.  Dawkins clearly superior, but slight chance they put Lynch in first due to waiting longer.  I'll go Dawkins here though.

Lewis, Owens, Faneca, Moss, Dawkins.

 
dutch said:
Don't know about all that but it does point to poor judgement and major character issues which in itself should block someone from immediate induction, a la Owens, etc...
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:lmao:

My post was also a joke, based largely on the fact that many on this board feel the Steelers are over-represented in the HOF.

 
hoffman0001 said:
Did you even read the article, or have you read about the case? The victims BLOOD was in HIS LIMO how does this happen unless you either did the crime or know who did it? He plead out to prosecutors saying he would finger his friends and then gave them no info after he had a signed deal. Either he did the crime and used the system to get off, or he knew what happened and got the killer off by not giving evidence to the DA. 

Clear case of a criminal using his fame to get off, or save his friends. Why else did he give the family a settlement years later??  :no:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1793514

Add that to repeated charges he beat the pregnant mother oh his children, and he is NOT Hall of Fame Worthy. Being an elite athlete should not mean you get a free pass. The hall of fame is a shire for the best of the NFL, and I hope he does not get the votes.  

P.S. And before you throw O.J. at me he was in the hall before he had his errrrrrr legal issues. And if it was up to me he would have been removed from the hall. 
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What does any of this have to do with his play? 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
What does any of this have to do with his play? 
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You should go ask Pete Rose about that.

Yes, yes, I know -- different sport, different selection committees, criteria, etc. I get it.

But the underlying principal is the same -- the sentiment that what you do off the field is just as important as on the field is one that more than a few share. Including the NFL, who has gone to great lengths to protect the shield, hold players accountable to their off-field actions even beyond what is deemed in court. 

Thought experiment: If Aaron Hernandez had Gronk's stats, would you still vote him in? For me, I can't deny that his off-field actions might come into play in terms of getting my vote.

 
hoffman0001 said:
It's the hall of fame, character matters. Next your going to vote for ray rice. who care if he beats women, he has the numbers (I know he does not, but I'm using him as an example). This is not just about stats...
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It's not supposed to matter one bit. That's not my criteria, it's theirs. 

Ray Lewis may be a scumbag but there aren't any rational people who think he committed the murders. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Won't disagree that he's worthy, he's woefully underappreciated as the centerpiece of one of the most fearsome Ds of his era (and this from a Raider fan), but there seem to me (IMO) to be a lot of guys that have been glaring omissions over the years:

  • Jerry Kramer 
  • Jim Marshall
  • Joe Jacoby
  • Roger Craig
  • Steve Tasker
  • Johnny Robinson
  • Ken Stabler while he was alive, Jim Plunkett now.
  • Gil Brandt
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There is no case for Marshall aside from longevity and there is no case for Plunkett beyond 2 ringz.

The case for Tasker is that maybe he was the best special teams player of all time. One problem with that is can anybody even come close to proving Tasker is even a top 10 special teams player of all time? How do we know Tasker was better than Dave Whitsell and Bill Malinchak (Tasker types from an earlier era)? Most viewing this post would have to Google Whitsell and Malinchak just to find out if I am not making up names. Before the late 1980s, special teams aces didn't get much press at all and we didn't have 50 different TV shows a week focused on NFL stuff.  

The second problem is that even if we were to come up with some proof that Tasker is the best special teams player ever, is that still something good enough to get him into the Hall of Fame? How many key plays did he make on a per game basis? Two? One? Something less than one? 

 
Fariq said:
There is no case for Marshall aside from longevity and there is no case for Plunkett beyond 2 ringz.

The case for Tasker is that maybe he was the best special teams player of all time. One problem with that is can anybody even come close to proving Tasker is even a top 10 special teams player of all time? How do we know Tasker was better than Dave Whitsell and Bill Malinchak (Tasker types from an earlier era)? Most viewing this post would have to Google Whitsell and Malinchak just to find out if I am not making up names. Before the late 1980s, special teams aces didn't get much press at all and we didn't have 50 different TV shows a week focused on NFL stuff.  

The second problem is that even if we were to come up with some proof that Tasker is the best special teams player ever, is that still something good enough to get him into the Hall of Fame? How many key plays did he make on a per game basis? Two? One? Something less than one? 
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So right on Tasker.  As a lifelong Bills fan I've always wondered where the idea that Tasker is hof worthy came from.  He did squat on offense, didn't play defense, made minimal contribution to the return game and scored a total of 9tds in his career.  Was he a beloved figure on a team full of high powered personalities?  Yes, but that's all it was.  His hype is even worse than the hype that got Ray Guy inducted and Guy at least made some tangible contribution to his team success.

 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
It's not supposed to matter one bit. That's not my criteria, it's theirs. 

Ray Lewis may be a scumbag but there aren't any rational people who think he committed the murders. 
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Either he was involved or his friends were and he covered it up. Look at the case. It was dirty at the time and it's still dirty. Why did he settle with the family of the victims? He used his $ in influence to get off. He also had several allegations that he beat pregnant women....what kind of person are YOU if you just gloss over that? 

 
hoffman0001 said:
Either he was involved or his friends were and he covered it up. Look at the case. It was dirty at the time and it's still dirty. Why did he settle with the family of the victims? He used his $ in influence to get off. He also had several allegations that he beat pregnant women....what kind of person are YOU if you just gloss over that? 
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I'm a horrible, horrible person who is part of the problem with this country. 

Do you really need an explanation on why a high profile public figure with wealth settled with the victims families rather than let it drag it out in court? 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
I'm a horrible, horrible person who is part of the problem with this country. 

Do you really need an explanation on why a high profile public figure with wealth settled with the victims families rather than let it drag it out in court? 
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Yeah he used $$$ to make his problems go away it's quite clear. Just another reason HOF voters should take a pass. Why don't you put your fan-boy, hero worship aside and call a dog a dog. Either he did the deed, or knew more than he hold, and a murderer walked free. SCUM BAG.....I don't care if he won titles or was a stud player. He was a bad person. 

 
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My Guesses -

(I'm guessing they make TO wait a couple more years)

Steve Hutchinson

Alan Faneca

Ray Lewis  (this speech should be epically terrible)

Randy Moss

Brian Dawkins

 
hoffman0001 said:
Yeah he used $$$ to make his problems go away it's quite clear. Just another reason HOF voters should take a pass. Why don't you put your fan-boy, hero worship aside and call a dog a dog. Either he did the deed, or knew more than he hold, and a murderer walked free. SCUM BAG.....I don't care if he won titles or was a stud player. He was a bad person. 
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Lol, I don't even like Ray Lewis. 

Have a great day dude. 

 
hoffman0001 said:
Yeah he used $$$ to make his problems go away it's quite clear. Just another reason HOF voters should take a pass. Why don't you put your fan-boy, hero worship aside and call a dog a dog. Either he did the deed, or knew more than he hold, and a murderer walked free. SCUM BAG.....I don't care if he won titles or was a stud player. He was a bad person. 
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Is this thread supposed to be the players we would vote in or expect to be voted in? 

He's getting voted in. That's pretty much settled. You want character to be considered. I agree. I'd bet a few voters won't vote for him. But, we don't know that he did anything illegal, we're guessing. We aren't guessing whether he's one of the best players of his generation.

 
-OZ- said:
Is this thread supposed to be the players we would vote in or expect to be voted in? 

He's getting voted in. That's pretty much settled. You want character to be considered. I agree. I'd bet a few voters won't vote for him. But, we don't know that he did anything illegal, we're guessing. We aren't guessing whether he's one of the best players of his generation.
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Where there is smoke there is fire, and this always smelled like something rotten. As we saw with OJ, justice does not always work right (unless your in the 5% that think he was innocent). Simply saying "he has not convicted" is letting a bad man who worked the system get off. 

Are you saying that if OJ was not in the HOF already, and he was put up for nomination he should just get in? At some point "tarnishing the shield" is a factor. Just ask people who are being suspended over questionable things. 

Why should Elliot be suspended over something he was never convicted of, but that's not a factor with the HOF?

BTW this is also why I think OWENS should never get in. He was a cancer and a horrible example of what an NFL player should aspire to. Not HOF worthy at all. 

 
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Fariq said:
There is no case for Marshall aside from longevity and there is no case for Plunkett beyond 2 ringz.

The case for Tasker is that maybe he was the best special teams player of all time. One problem with that is can anybody even come close to proving Tasker is even a top 10 special teams player of all time? How do we know Tasker was better than Dave Whitsell and Bill Malinchak (Tasker types from an earlier era)? Most viewing this post would have to Google Whitsell and Malinchak just to find out if I am not making up names. Before the late 1980s, special teams aces didn't get much press at all and we didn't have 50 different TV shows a week focused on NFL stuff.  

The second problem is that even if we were to come up with some proof that Tasker is the best special teams player ever, is that still something good enough to get him into the Hall of Fame? How many key plays did he make on a per game basis? Two? One? Something less than one? 
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You're simply wrong. Nomination committees were seriously considering Marshall as a senior finalist just this past August but fell short.

For QBs, multiple SBs absolutely seems to be a consideration in getting a nod. Feel free to disagree, but to state there is no case is too overt and poor an attempt of masking subjectivity as fact.

Good thoughts on Tasker -- my argument here for the problems you raise is for the nomination/voting committee to recognize ST contributions, come up with some criteria (official or not, as I don't think there are official criteria around inclusion for other positions). No reason why the same kinds of comparisons that happen between other positions can't be considered for STs -- but in my opinion, no reason not to consider the contributions of guys like Tasker, Brian Mitchell, Hester, etc.as meaningful to the game.

Because they are. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
You're simply wrong. Nomination committees were seriously considering Marshall as a senior finalist just this past August but fell short.

For QBs, multiple SBs absolutely seems to be a consideration in getting a nod. Feel free to disagree, but to state there is no case is too overt and poor an attempt of masking subjectivity as fact.
Click to expand...


Plunkett is a great guy and was instrumental in two Raiders Super Bowl wins. I could write the same sentence and insert "Eli Manning" and "Giants" were I wrote "Plunkett" and "Raiders." Then I could make Plunkett look bad compared to Manning if we compare their year-by-year performances not to each other (as they would always be unfair to an older era QB) but to their contemporaries. Plunkett was rarely considered a top 10 QB whereas Manning sometimes was considered as such.

Marshall does not have a career littered with honors. Page and Eller were much more decorated linemen on the same team. I have never seen anyone make a convincing case for Marshall aside from his longevity and I guess also that he played on a good team.     

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Good thoughts on Tasker -- my argument here for the problems you raise is for the nomination/voting committee to recognize ST contributions, come up with some criteria (official or not, as I don't think there are official criteria around inclusion for other positions). No reason why the same kinds of comparisons that happen between other positions can't be considered for STs -- but in my opinion, no reason not to consider the contributions of guys like Tasker, Brian Mitchell, Hester, etc.as meaningful to the game.

Because they are. 
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There is no doubt that guys like Tasker, Mitchell, Hester, Josh Cribbs, Bill Bates, Whitsell, Malinchak, Chuck Latourette, Elbert Shelley, Rufus Porter, Bennie Thompson, Rusty Tillman, and many others made important contributions to special teams units. I just don't know that what those type of guys did was impactful enough to elevate them to PFHOF inductions.

It can be rough to make comparisons of any kind especially to another sport, but a guy like Tasker might be like a dangerous pinch hitter in baseball like Matt Stairs was late in his career. "Oh no, they probably will bat Stairs in the pitcher's spot in the next inning. We're gonna have to get so-and-so warmed up in the pen."    

 
hoffman0001 said:
Where there is smoke there is fire, and this always smelled like something rotten. As we saw with OJ, justice does not always work right (unless your in the 5% that think he was innocent). Simply saying "he has not convicted" is letting a bad man who worked the system get off. 

Are you saying that if OJ was not in the HOF already, and he was put up for nomination he should just get in? At some point "tarnishing the shield" is a factor. Just ask people who are being suspended over questionable things. 

Why should Elliot be suspended over something he was never convicted of, but that's not a factor with the HOF?

BTW this is also why I think OWENS should never get in. He was a cancer and a horrible example of what an NFL player should aspire to. Not HOF worthy at all. 
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OJ served jail time, albeit not for what you're referring. So no he shouldn't be in.

I get your point, really I do. But I think there's a difference between putting a player in the HOF who has a questionable incident, and suspending a player 6 games for an incident. Now if the conduct would warrant a lifetime ban instead of a suspension of less than half a season, it should also keep him out of the hall. 

If Darren Sharper is able to get nominated, Ray deserves to get in. (I would support a ban on convicted felons from the game and the hall). 

 
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-OZ- said:
OJ served jail time, albeit not for what you're referring. So no he shouldn't be in.

I get your point, really I do. But I think there's a difference between putting a player in the HOF who has a questionable incident, and suspending a player 6 games for a similar incident. Now if the conduct would warrant a lifetime ban instead of a suspension of less than half a season, it should also keep him out of the hall. 

If Darren Sharper is able to get nominated, Ray deserves to get in. (I would support a ban on convicted felons from the game and the hall). 
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Anyone can be nominated if they played. Lewis was a bad man and a poor representative of the NFL. He used money and influence and lied to the authorities (he was convicted of this) and a murderer (if it was him or someone else) got away with killing two people because of his not doing the right thing. There was victims blood in his car and he says "I don't know what happened"?He then settled with the family to make the story go away. He even says things like "I live with what happened every day",. If he was 100% innocent of wrong-doing why would he be "living with it",? Why would he settle the lawsuit? 

 
Fariq said:
Plunkett is a great guy and was instrumental in two Raiders Super Bowl wins. I could write the same sentence and insert "Eli Manning" and "Giants" were I wrote "Plunkett" and "Raiders." Then I could make Plunkett look bad compared to Manning if we compare their year-by-year performances not to each other (as they would always be unfair to an older era QB) but to their contemporaries. Plunkett was rarely considered a top 10 QB whereas Manning sometimes was considered as such.

Marshall does not have a career littered with honors. Page and Eller were much more decorated linemen on the same team. I have never seen anyone make a convincing case for Marshall aside from his longevity and I guess also that he played on a good team.     
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Whether Plunkett deserves or not to be in the Hall of Fame is a long debate, and one that seems to break down between hardware vs stats. Funny that you mention Eli in that like Plunkett, there is a similar debate over them both in terms of Hall of Fame vs Hall of Very Good At Times.

Point isn't to make that debate -- I've laid out my reasons for Plunkett for HOF elsewhere on this board that can likely be found via search. Point is, the argument can and has been made either way. We should all be careful in positioning our opinion as fact ("Plunkett is the most overlooked guy for HOF," or "There is no case for Plunkett to be a HOFer") in light of these long-standing existing, and subjective, debates.

Let's apply this to the statement above: "Marshall does not have a career littered with honors."

Here are some of his many honors:

  • SB champion (1969)
  • 4× consecutive Pro Bowl (1968–1971)
  • 4× Second-team All-Pro (1964, 1968, 1969, 1971)
  • Minnesota Vikings No. 70 retired
  • Minnesota Vikings Ring of Honor
  • NFL record for opponent fumbles recovered (30)
Guys like Largent, Fouts, Dickerson, even the great Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell (and a few others) don't have SB championships (and to be clear, Marshall was an instrumental part of that SB-winning team, unlike a guy with multiple rings who did squat like Damon Huard and Jared Lorenzen). HOFers Riggins and Ray Nitschke only went to one Pro Bowl. 

So again, comparatively -- and more importantly, subjectively -- Marshall does have a career that is arguably more littered with honors than some of those with busts already.

The fact that he was nominated and considered just six months ago as a senior finalist shows that there was a case to get him into the conversation regardless of whether you think so or not.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Guys like Largent, Fouts, Dickerson, even the great Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell (and a few others) don't have SB championships (and to be clear, Marshall was an instrumental part of that SB-winning team, unlike a guy with multiple rings who did squat like Damon Huard and Jared Lorenzen). HOFers Riggins and Ray Nitschke only went to one Pro Bowl. 

So again, comparatively -- and more importantly, subjectively -- Marshall does have a career that is arguably more littered with honors than some of those with busts already.
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Sorry but you are losing credibility by arguing for Marshall and including names like Largent, Fouts, Dickerson, Sayers, and Campbell in your argument. There is nothing gained for your argument in bringing those other guys into the discussion and suggesting that 'comparatively' and 'subjectively' Marshall has more honors than them. :crazy:  

 
hoffman0001 said:
Anyone can be nominated if they played. Lewis was a bad man and a poor representative of the NFL. He used money and influence and lied to the authorities (he was convicted of this) and a murderer (if it was him or someone else) got away with killing two people because of his not doing the right thing. There was victims blood in his car and he says "I don't know what happened"?He then settled with the family to make the story go away. He even says things like "I live with what happened every day",. If he was 100% innocent of wrong-doing why would he be "living with it",? Why would he settle the lawsuit? 
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He probably did something bad, no argument there. I don't know what happened, anyone who does isn't talking. I don't like the guy.  

I do think the football HOF should add character as official criteria. I also think convicted felons (depends I guess on the felony but as a general rule) shouldn't be allowed back into the league. 

But as things stand, Ray is getting in.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Whether Plunkett deserves or not to be in the Hall of Fame is a long debate, and one that seems to break down between hardware vs stats. Funny that you mention Eli in that like Plunkett, there is a similar debate over them both in terms of Hall of Fame vs Hall of Very Good At Times.

Point isn't to make that debate -- I've laid out my reasons for Plunkett for HOF elsewhere on this board that can likely be found via search. Point is, the argument can and has been made either way. We should all be careful in positioning our opinion as fact ("Plunkett is the most overlooked guy for HOF," or "There is no case for Plunkett to be a HOFer") in light of these long-standing existing, and subjective, debates.

Let's apply this to the statement above: "Marshall does not have a career littered with honors."

Here are some of his many honors:

  • SB champion (1969)
  • 4× consecutive Pro Bowl (1968–1971)
  • 4× Second-team All-Pro (1964, 1968, 1969, 1971)
  • Minnesota Vikings No. 70 retired
  • Minnesota Vikings Ring of Honor
  • NFL record for opponent fumbles recovered (30)
Guys like Largent, Fouts, Dickerson, even the great Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell (and a few others) don't have SB championships (and to be clear, Marshall was an instrumental part of that SB-winning team, unlike a guy with multiple rings who did squat like Damon Huard and Jared Lorenzen). HOFers Riggins and Ray Nitschke only went to one Pro Bowl. 

So again, comparatively -- and more importantly, subjectively -- Marshall does have a career that is arguably more littered with honors than some of those with busts already.

The fact that he was nominated and considered just six months ago as a senior finalist shows that there was a case to get him into the conversation regardless of whether you think so or not.
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No offense but Marshall won an NFL title his team was flattened in SB IV, so technically he was the league champion as the Super Bowl was only an exhibition game until the leagues merged in 70'. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Whether Plunkett deserves or not to be in the Hall of Fame is a long debate, and one that seems to break down between hardware vs stats. Funny that you mention Eli in that like Plunkett, there is a similar debate over them both in terms of Hall of Fame vs Hall of Very Good At Times.

Point isn't to make that debate -- I've laid out my reasons for Plunkett for HOF elsewhere on this board that can likely be found via search. Point is, the argument can and has been made either way. We should all be careful in positioning our opinion as fact ("Plunkett is the most overlooked guy for HOF," or "There is no case for Plunkett to be a HOFer") in light of these long-standing existing, and subjective, debates.

Let's apply this to the statement above: "Marshall does not have a career littered with honors."

Here are some of his many honors:

  • SB champion (1969)
  • 4× consecutive Pro Bowl (1968–1971)
  • 4× Second-team All-Pro (1964, 1968, 1969, 1971)
  • Minnesota Vikings No. 70 retired
  • Minnesota Vikings Ring of Honor
  • NFL record for opponent fumbles recovered (30)
Guys like Largent, Fouts, Dickerson, even the great Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell (and a few others) don't have SB championships (and to be clear, Marshall was an instrumental part of that SB-winning team, unlike a guy with multiple rings who did squat like Damon Huard and Jared Lorenzen). HOFers Riggins and Ray Nitschke only went to one Pro Bowl. 

So again, comparatively -- and more importantly, subjectively -- Marshall does have a career that is arguably more littered with honors than some of those with busts already.

The fact that he was nominated and considered just six months ago as a senior finalist shows that there was a case to get him into the conversation regardless of whether you think so or not.
Click to expand...
Plunkett has no business in the hall of fame unless he buys a ticket or is a guest of an inductee.  IMO Eli is the same thing but has a case to be argued(especially if you say Joe Namath is in).

 
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