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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Josh Rosen, Bucs

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On 4/9/2019 at 6:33 PM, Dr. Dan said:

personally I think Murray 1.1 is a smoke screen

Can you explain what the point of that would be?

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3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Can you explain what the point of that would be?

To generate interest in 1.1. from a team like Oakland maybe, who are picking high, might like him, and would trade up. 

Maybe AZ is just waiting until draft day to trade Rosen, but it seems like they havent been too interested in moving him. And I wouldnt blame them for waiting until draft day to move him, as his value would be higher. I just wouldnt be surprised if AZ traded out or didnt take him

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Or NYG since Kyler Murray is at their training facility today.

6 and 17 not enough for the 1 (according to the chart) but its a good start

 

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3 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

To generate interest in 1.1. from a team like Oakland maybe, who are picking high, might like him, and would trade up. 

Maybe AZ is just waiting until draft day to trade Rosen, but it seems like they havent been too interested in moving him. And I wouldnt blame them for waiting until draft day to move him, as his value would be higher. I just wouldnt be surprised if AZ traded out or didnt take him

The flat Earth society totally agrees.

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On 4/10/2019 at 1:23 PM, DexterDew said:

i think there is a good chance of this if the Raiders have a buyer for Carr

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/15/kyler-murray-cardinals-nfl-draft-peter-king-fmia/?cid=fmiatw

Suppose the Raiders, picking fourth, and coach Jon Gruden, who was openly covetous of Murray at the combine, decide that three of their five first-round picks in the next two drafts are worth using to get the first pick. Theoretically, suppose the Raiders trade the fourth and 27th picks in round one this year, plus one of their two first-rounders next year, to deal up to Arizona’s pick, and the Raiders take Murray. Then suppose they could recoup one of those first-round picks by trading quarterback Derek Carr to Miami or Washington or the Giants for a 2020 first-rounder. Over the next four years, the Raiders would save about $13 million a year by paying a first-pick quarterback an average of $8.5 million a year, as opposed to the $21.5 million average on the remaining four seasons of Carr’s contract.

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24 minutes ago, DexterDew said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/15/kyler-murray-cardinals-nfl-draft-peter-king-fmia/?cid=fmiatw

Suppose the Raiders, picking fourth, and coach Jon Gruden, who was openly covetous of Murray at the combine, decide that three of their five first-round picks in the next two drafts are worth using to get the first pick. Theoretically, suppose the Raiders trade the fourth and 27th picks in round one this year, plus one of their two first-rounders next year, to deal up to Arizona’s pick, and the Raiders take Murray. Then suppose they could recoup one of those first-round picks by trading quarterback Derek Carr to Miami or Washington or the Giants for a 2020 first-rounder. Over the next four years, the Raiders would save about $13 million a year by paying a first-pick quarterback an average of $8.5 million a year, as opposed to the $21.5 million average on the remaining four seasons of Carr’s contract.

He lost me at the bolded part. No one is giving close to a 1st for Carr. Why would he be worth any more than Tannehill at this point?

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1 hour ago, DexterDew said:

for one, never been injured like Tannehill. Younger.

Carr broke his lower leg in half. The dolphins didn't dump an expensive QB that was ruined from injury only to turn around and give a 1st for a MORE expensive QB that was ruined from injury because he's a year and change younger. 

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34 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Carr isn’t netting a 1st in trade 

I was going to post this too, then I just figured I'd let it go. 

No way anyone would give up a 1st for Carr. Any 1st round rookie qb is a better investment 

I'd be surprised if Carr netted anything higher than a 5th 

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1 hour ago, jtd13 said:

Carr broke his lower leg in half. The dolphins didn't dump an expensive QB that was ruined from injury only to turn around and give a 1st for a MORE expensive QB that was ruined from injury because he's a year and change younger. 

Carr's injury ruined him?  That's news to me.

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2 minutes ago, Shawnky said:

Carr's injury ruined him?  That's news to me.

He's been a bad NFL QB in 2 seasons since the injury. I think it's likely the injury changed his career trajectory for the worse. 

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4 minutes ago, Shawnky said:

Carr's injury ruined him?  That's news to me.

 

Just now, jtd13 said:

He's been a bad NFL QB in 2 seasons since the injury. I think it's likely the injury changed his career trajectory for the worse. 

Yeah, I'd agree with jtd on that... His arrow seemed to be pointing up at about the time of his injury. Hes been completely different since. 

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Maybe ruined is too strong a word. My point is there is little more hope for Carr than there is for Tannehill at this point, and the dolphins just dumped Tannehill. They aren't going after Carr even if he costs a 2nd, much less a 1st. 

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Different?  Sure, I can agree with that.  I can also agree that he's been worse, but far from a ruined career.  I think the state of the franchise has something to do with that.  I'd like to see him moved honestly.

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3 hours ago, DexterDew said:

for one, never been injured like Tannehill. Younger.

He wasn’t even a first round pick when he was drafted and has been very up and down (more down) since then. How would they get a first for him?

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3 hours ago, jtd13 said:

He's been a bad NFL QB in 2 seasons since the injury. I think it's likely the injury changed his career trajectory for the worse. 

While I certainly don't think Carr is worth a 1st, I would disagree that he's been a bad QB the last 2 years. He's been league average. Pretty much interchangeable with a guy like Stafford, and not all that far behind Kirk Cousins. Carr had a pretty good year last year, considering his top weapon for most of the year was Jared Cook.

For what its worth, I'd rather have Carr than Daniel Jones going forward, of course as this is a Rosen thread, I feel obligated to mention, I'd take Rosen over either of them. Or over Stafford or Cousins for that matter.

Edited by travdogg

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My friend who is a Giants fan really wants Rosen. Honestly, as a Cowboys fan, I wouldn't mind him for a relatively cheap price, but young QBs like him almost never come for less than a 2nd. If they trade for him, then trade Dak to a team for a first and 2nd, lol. Not sure who would bite on that, but maybe someone does.

My thinking is that the Cowboys would have Rosen on his rookie contract and then wouldn't have to give Dak a huge extension. They could then come to terms with Zeke pretty easily and afford to keep Byron Jones too, who for the better half of last season, was the premiere CB in the NFL. Out of Zeke, Byron, and Dak, I'd rather give up Dak and replace him with someone like Rosen or even a Ryan Fitzpatrick type.

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1 hour ago, QuizGuy66 said:

Can't imagine Cardinals would bite on just the #78 pick from Dolphins.  I think a 2nd round pick is the more realistic price point - leverage or no.

-QG

I've never understood why Arizona has to trade Rosen if they draft Murray. The combined salaries, would still be less than most of the league is spending at QB. 

If I were Arizona, its a 1st rounder(wouldn't have to be 2019) or Rosen stays, if that means he stays, then oh darn, we've got potentially the best backup QB in the NFL, and can go through the same process next year, when he's still got 3 years left on his rookie deal. Or maybe, a Bradford in 2016 like situation happens, where some team loses a starter before the season.

This idea of trading a top-10 pick, a year later for far less than investment, just because we took another player at the position feels foolish to me.

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9 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I've never understood why Arizona has to trade Rosen if they draft Murray. The combined salaries, would still be less than most of the league is spending at QB. 

If I were Arizona, its a 1st rounder(wouldn't have to be 2019) or Rosen stays, if that means he stays, then oh darn, we've got potentially the best backup QB in the NFL, and can go through the same process next year, when he's still got 3 years left on his rookie deal. Or maybe, a Bradford in 2016 like situation happens, where some team loses a starter before the season.

This idea of trading a top-10 pick, a year later for far less than investment, just because we took another player at the position feels foolish to me.

Same school of thought that ridiculed the Skins for drafting Cousins in the same draft they drafted RGIII in - turned out "well" for the Skins...if you consider at least having Cousins for a few years to get you over the sting of RGIII being awful before Cousins left town "well."  

I agree with you - If I was AZ, I'd keep Rosen and raft Murray.

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1 hour ago, Fat Nick said:

Same school of thought that ridiculed the Skins for drafting Cousins in the same draft they drafted RGIII in - turned out "well" for the Skins...if you consider at least having Cousins for a few years to get you over the sting of RGIII being awful before Cousins left town "well."  

I agree with you - If I was AZ, I'd keep Rosen and raft Murray.

But would Rosen want to stay??  Given he has been vocal, I doubt it.

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49 minutes ago, stlrams said:

But would Rosen want to stay??  Given he has been vocal, I doubt it.

I mean...he did sign a contract and all...

Sarcasm and my personal feelings about players having so much say in staying with an organization or not, I understand what you're saying.  If the Cards came flat out and said, "Murray will be our starter, Rosen will back him up," I get Rosen's concerns.  If they made it a fair, open competition, Rosen should put-up or shut-up.  While I doubt any team drafts a QB at 1.1 to bench him after he loses to the incumbent in camp, they can at least make it look like it's based on talent!

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4 hours ago, travdogg said:

I've never understood why Arizona has to trade Rosen if they draft Murray. The combined salaries, would still be less than most of the league is spending at QB. 

If I were Arizona, its a 1st rounder(wouldn't have to be 2019) or Rosen stays, if that means he stays, then oh darn, we've got potentially the best backup QB in the NFL, and can go through the same process next year, when he's still got 3 years left on his rookie deal. Or maybe, a Bradford in 2016 like situation happens, where some team loses a starter before the season.

This idea of trading a top-10 pick, a year later for far less than investment, just because we took another player at the position feels foolish to me.

I think they have to trade Rosen if they draft Murray. There would just be too many issues in the locker room. All last year the entire team thought Rosen was going to be the guy going forward. Now the very next year they draft someone else to be the man. Keeping both of them will cause splits in the team - it's human nature. Getting rid of Rosen forces the team to unite behind Murray.

I think it's a given they trade Rosen if they draft Murray.

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3 minutes ago, kutta said:

I think they have to trade Rosen if they draft Murray. There would just be too many issues in the locker room. All last year the entire team thought Rosen was going to be the guy going forward. Now the very next year they draft someone else to be the man. Keeping both of them will cause splits in the team - it's human nature. Getting rid of Rosen forces the team to unite behind Murray.

I think it's a given they trade Rosen if they draft Murray.

I guess I just disagree with the bolded. I mean if Rosen were somebody who had a bunch of cache in the league, I could see that point. But he has 1 season, of mostly poor play. If Murray outplays Rosen, everyone will get behind Murray regardless of what they thought of Rosen. Likewise, If Murray can't get the team to rally behind him over Rosen, then he has no business going #1. 

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And for that matter, how many players from last year's locker room will realistically be on the team this season?

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16 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I guess I just disagree with the bolded. I mean if Rosen were somebody who had a bunch of cache in the league, I could see that point. But he has 1 season, of mostly poor play. If Murray outplays Rosen, everyone will get behind Murray regardless of what they thought of Rosen. Likewise, If Murray can't get the team to rally behind him over Rosen, then he has no business going #1. 

I think we forget that these guys are human and make friendships and bonds. If I hire someone as a director and let him run a team for a year and tell everyone that he's their boss for the foreseeable future, then hire another guy and demote the first guy, there's going to be issues. There just is.

We will see what happens. But I'd be shocked if they didn't get rid of Rosen if they draft Murray.

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3 minutes ago, kutta said:

I think we forget that these guys are human and make friendships and bonds. If I hire someone as a director and let him run a team for a year and tell everyone that he's their boss for the foreseeable future, then hire another guy and demote the first guy, there's going to be issues. There just is.

We will see what happens. But I'd be shocked if they didn't get rid of Rosen if they draft Murray.

I would say the opposite.  People worry way too much about that stuff and forget that ultimately all of these guys are employees.  In my work place I've seen plenty of employees around me get promoted and demoted, had peers become team leaders, team leaders who are friends get demoted, etc.  That's just life and they need to grow up if they can't handle it.

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2 minutes ago, kutta said:

I think we forget that these guys are human and make friendships and bonds. If I hire someone as a director and let him run a team for a year and tell everyone that he's their boss for the foreseeable future, then hire another guy and demote the first guy, there's going to be issues. There just is.

But that's not the correct analogy.  You hired someone as a director and told everyone he was their boss, then you got fired.  The new president came in and touted a shiny new director that he likes.

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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the three "primary" suitors for Josh Rosen are the Giants, Chargers, and Dolphins.

SNY's Ralph Vacchiano recently reported the G-Men have "no interest" in sending the No. 6 or No. 17 pick to Arizona in exchange for Rosen. Unless GM Dave Gettleman has wavered on his hard-nosed stance of refusing to offer their No. 37 selection, too, it's likely the second-year UCLA product lands elsewhere. Miami's interest connects with Peter King's report that no team has done more work on Rosen the past few weeks than the Dolphins. The Fins could potentially offer their second- (No. 48 overall) or third-rounder (No. 78) if the front office deems Rosen a prospect worth building around.

RELATED: 

Miami Dolphins

, New York Giants

, Arizona Cardinals

SOURCE: The Adam Schefter Podcast

Apr 22, 2019, 2:07 PM

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Just now, FreeBaGeL said:

I would say the opposite.  People worry way too much about that stuff and forget that ultimately all of these guys are employees.  In my work place I've seen plenty of employees around me get promoted and demoted, had peers become team leaders, team leaders who are friends get demoted, etc.  That's just life and they need to grow up if they can't handle it.

We're talking about people in their 20s and early 30s at the oldest.  Most people working in an office environment are far older and more mature than these kids.

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1 hour ago, tangfoot said:

But that's not the correct analogy.  You hired someone as a director and told everyone he was their boss, then you got fired.  The new president came in and touted a shiny new director that he likes.

Right. That's even worse for morale.

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I would say the opposite.  People worry way too much about that stuff and forget that ultimately all of these guys are employees.  In my work place I've seen plenty of employees around me get promoted and demoted, had peers become team leaders, team leaders who are friends get demoted, etc.  That's just life and they need to grow up if they can't handle it.

I guess we'll see how it plays out.

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a lot of what if's for a guy who 100% gets traded in the next 3 days if they're taking murray.

they'll get a 2nd at best.

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I wonder what changed with Washington. For a while it was nearly a done deal. Wonder if they soured or Cardinals said they needed more than they wanted to pay 

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Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer reports that the Arizona Cardinals have been in contact with the Dolphins, Redskins, Chargers, and Giants in regards to a trade for Josh Rosen.

Breer anticipates a Rosen trade to happen prior to the first pick to avoid these teams filling up their quarterback needs with the 2019 prospects, which will help us mock drafters. As it sits now, the Cardinals are very likely to select Kyler Murray at 1st overall, but guessing where Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, and Daniel Jones will end up is difficult. Of the teams listed above, the Redskins and Giants are the two most likely to leave draft night with a future franchise quarterback.

SOURCE: Sports Illustrated

Apr 22, 2019, 7:19 PM

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ESPN's Dianna Russini reports the Washington Redskins are not pursuing a trade for Josh Rosen.

Russini also mentions that the Cardinals are open to keeping Rosen on the roster through the draft with the option of trading him in the summer if they do draft Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray 1st overall, something that is very likely at the moment. The Cardinals are probably finding it difficult to find trading partners for Rosen before the draft, so trading him post-draft to a team that faces a quarterback injury post-draft could be worthwhile. Obviously, there would be a lot of criticism and they'd need to juggle the headache of having two top-10 picks at the same position.

SOURCE: Dianna Russini on Twitter

Apr 24, 2019, 7:58 AM

 

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Cardinals coach Kliff Kingsbury said Josh Rosen "was a top-10 pick for a reason."

Despite persistent rumors about the Cardinals replacing him with Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray, Rosen has shown up to all offseason activities, and his coach at least wants people to believe the quarterback has been impressive. "I think Josh has done everything humanly possible to show what type of quarterback he is, what type of competitor he is," Kingsbury said. "I’ve said it all along, I couldn’t be more impressed with his approach. He’s a great player." Perhaps Kingsbury really has been impressed and the Cardinals really will pass on Murray, but this is more likely an attempt to build Rosen's value before he is traded away on Thursday.

SOURCE: Arizona Republic

Apr 23, 2019, 10:21 PM

 

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ESPN's Josina Anderson reports the Chargers trade talks for Josh Rosen have cooled "based on their evaluations of rookie quarterbacks."

Anderson also reports that the Kyler Murray camp isn't as confident as they once were at being the 1st overall pick and that "one team" could trade up to select him if the Cardinals elect to keep Rosen. That "one team" is unlikely to be the Bolts since they pick 28th overall, but they must have an interest in at least one of the Day 1 or 2 quarterbacks to cut off Rosen trade talks. If it's one of the consensus top-4 quarterbacks, they'd likely need to facilitate a trade up, but it may make more sense to find a Day 2 or 3 quarterback instead. The Chargers also have Tyrod Taylor as Rivers' backup, so it's not a huge need with Rivers still playing at a high level.

SOURCE: Josina Anderson on Twitter

Apr 24, 2019, 9:30 AM

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