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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Josh Rosen, Bucs

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7 minutes ago, kutta said:

I’m just not so sure they would trade Rosen because he is a “problem.” It’s a good bet that any QB drafted at the 10th pick would be pretty disturbed if the team drafted another QB at 1.01 the following year.  Not sure that’s ever happened before, and there’s no doubt it would cause a ruckus on the team. 

If they are going to draft Murray, they need to trade Rosen. It will be a big issue no matter who starts if they are both on the team day one.

Closest I can think of is the Bucs taking Steve Young #1 in the 84 supplemental of USFL players then taking Vinny in 87 at #1. Bucs thought Young was a bust after only 2 seasons. But yeah, they got rid of him to make room for Vinny. The best thing that could've happened to him. Rosen to the Chargers makes too much sense. I'm not even high on Rosen, but it seems like a no brainer for both teams if AZ is sold on Kyler.

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Makes a ton of sense for the Redskins need wise and money wise. Compensation would be a question and the Redskins being the Redskins might wait to see how the top ten goes.

I would think the Cardinals would hit the accept button tomorrow if the Skins offer the 15th for him. Colt now maybe having a second procedure on his leg?  Allen just needs to get this done.  Of course, goes back to fit with Gruden. I have no idea how that would work and don't pretend too. I assume Rosen fits the scheme pretty well but who knows. Murray and Rosen becoming a nice storyline for this draft.

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54 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Makes a ton of sense for the Redskins need wise and money wise. Compensation would be a question and the Redskins being the Redskins might wait to see how the top ten goes.

I would think the Cardinals would hit the accept button tomorrow if the Skins offer the 15th for him. Colt now maybe having a second procedure on his leg?  Allen just needs to get this done.  Of course, goes back to fit with Gruden. I have no idea how that would work and don't pretend too. I assume Rosen fits the scheme pretty well but who knows. Murray and Rosen becoming a nice storyline for this draft.

I would hope they would wait and see how the draft shakes out before giving up the first for Rosen. I'd feel a lot better about a 2nd and using that 1st for a WR. I just don't think its realistic to win in today's NFL with Doctson, Quick, Quinn, and Richardson as your WR core. 

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1 minute ago, ffmail4me said:

I would hope they would wait and see how the draft shakes out before giving up the first for Rosen. I'd feel a lot better about a 2nd and using that 1st for a WR. I just don't think its realistic to win in today's NFL with Doctson, Quick, Quinn, and Richardson as your WR core. 

No doubt they need a WR. Would be nice if Doctson clicked with whoever they bring in. Doctson going into his 4th season and contract year I think. I actually just traded Delaine Walker straight up for Doctson on an orphan team I just picked up. Spitball against the wall but you never know. Walker coming off an injury and being 35 figured why not. Solid TE starters on the squad.

QB more important than WR regardless but at this point, the Skins have tons of holes.  Unless the plan is to tank for next season not sure Snyder would go for that. If your plan was to tank not sure why you get Case Keenum.

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27 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

 If your plan was to tank not sure why you get Case Keenum.

 

To give your ticket holders the appearance that you’re trying to be more competitive without actually meaningfully improving your team?

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12 hours ago, ericttspikes said:

Closest I can think of is the Bucs taking Steve Young #1 in the 84 supplemental of USFL players then taking Vinny in 87 at #1. Bucs thought Young was a bust after only 2 seasons. But yeah, they got rid of him to make room for Vinny. The best thing that could've happened to him. Rosen to the Chargers makes too much sense. I'm not even high on Rosen, but it seems like a no brainer for both teams if AZ is sold on Kyler. 

Dallas took Steve Walsh and Aikman back to back as well.

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SportsNet New York's Ralph Vacchiano reports that the New York Giants are exploring a trade for Arizona Cardinals QB Josh Rosen.

Rosen's trade market is one unknown variable in the Kyler Murray to the desert saga. On the surface, there aren't too many teams who need a starting quarterback, but the Giants are one of them. "At the moment [the Giants] have no idea if Rosen is, or ever will be, available," but if the Giants were to trade for Rosen, it would assuredly mean Murray would be the 1st overall pick. Oddsmakers currently give Murray an 80% chance that the former Sooner will be the first player off the board.

SOURCE: SportsNet New York

Mar 27, 2019, 8:51 AM

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5 minutes ago, Faust said:

portsNet New York's Ralph Vacchiano reports that the New York Giants are exploring a trade for Arizona Cardinals QB Josh Rosen.

Evan Silva‏Verified account @evansilva 3h3 hours ago

#Giants smartly trying to create leverage in Eli extension talks.

Evan Silva added,

ProFootballTalkVerified account @ProFootballTalk

Report: Giants will explore a trade for Josh Rosen https://wp.me/p14QSB-aW4G

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According to Joel Klatt of Fox Sports, three teams are "very interested" in acquiring Josh Rosen from the Cardinals.

Those three teams are the Chargers, Giants and Patriots. It makes sense as Philip Rivers, Tom Brady and Eli Manning are all nearing the finish line and Rosen would be an ideal successor for any of the three. Per Klatt, one team has already offered Arizona a second-round pick for Rosen, though the Cardinals are apparently holding out for a first-rounder. With newly-minted coach Kliff Kingsbury making no effort to hide his infatuation with reigning Heisman-winner Kyler Murray, the Cardinals may not have much leverage in trade discussions. Rosen labored through a difficult rookie season in 2018, though coaching turnover and a weak supporting cast were at least partially to blame for his struggles. The 22-year-old would probably benefit from a change of scenery.

RELATED: 

New England Patriots

, New York Giants

, Los Angeles Chargers

SOURCE: Undisputed on Twitter

Mar 27, 2019, 2:37 PM

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On 3/25/2019 at 10:06 PM, ericttspikes said:

Closest I can think of is the Bucs taking Steve Young #1 in the 84 supplemental of USFL players then taking Vinny in 87 at #1. Bucs thought Young was a bust after only 2 seasons. But yeah, they got rid of him to make room for Vinny. The best thing that could've happened to him. Rosen to the Chargers makes too much sense. I'm not even high on Rosen, but it seems like a no brainer for both teams if AZ is sold on Kyler.

Aikman - Steve Walsh. 

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NFL Films senior producer Greg Cosell said he would rather have Arizona Cardinals QB Josh Rosen than Ohio State Dwayne Haskins.

It seems to be a foregone conclusion at this point that the Arizona Cardinals will select Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray No. 1 overall and trade last year's first-round pick Josh Rosen. Cosell not only prefers Rosen because he's a "cleaner thrower of the football" but when factoring in cost he also makes more sense. "if I’m the Giants and I could give up a two and get Rosen, I would absolutely do it." Acquiring Rosen for a second-round pick and still having two firsts in 2019 to surround him with talent seems like an optimal decision. Optimizing a team hasn't been Giants GM Dave Gettleman's specialty so far, but he has a chance to prove otherwise in the upcoming weeks. Haskins' landing spot and draft position could be heavily impacted by the trade for Josh Rosen.

SOURCE: New York Daily News

Mar 30, 2019, 12:43 PM

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I didn't watch any of Rosen's games last season, but did he really look so bad that suddenly he's worse than guys like Lock or Jones? I was under the impression that all of the first round qbs from last season were held in much higher regard than this class.

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3 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

I didn't watch any of Rosen's games last season, but did he really look so bad that suddenly he's worse than guys like Lock or Jones? I was under the impression that all of the first round qbs from last season were held in much higher regard than this class.

 

That’s got nothing to do with it.  If AZ is committed to taking Murray then they’ve lost some leverage on Rosen’s trade value.  Other teams understand that so they aren’t going to offer premium value.

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37 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

That’s got nothing to do with it.  If AZ is committed to taking Murray then they’ve lost some leverage on Rosen’s trade value.  Other teams understand that so they aren’t going to offer premium value.

Plus the team that trades for him already loses a year of his rookie contract, which has value.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Plus the team that trades for him already loses a year of his rookie contract, which has value.

But the rest of the contract is so affordable.  Basically, get 4 years at 20 million and that includes picking up the option. You can't beat that. 

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28 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Plus the team that trades for him already loses a year of his rookie contract, which has value.

Josh Rosen 4 year rookie deal>>>>>>>>>any of these QBs on a 5 year deal, especially after Murray

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Josh Rosen 4 year rookie deal>>>>>>>>>any of these QBs on a 5 year deal, especially after Murray

 

If that were true, you would have seen the trade for a 1st rounder consumated well before now.  There is some very real unknowns whether Rosen, Murray, or Haskins has the best career.  If it is the slam dunk you seem to think it is, someone would have stepped up - especially teams on the backside of the first round.

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2 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

If that were true, you would have seen the trade for a 1st rounder consumated well before now.  There is some very real unknowns whether Rosen, Murray, or Haskins has the best career.  If it is the slam dunk you seem to think it is, someone would have stepped up - especially teams on the backside of the first round.

why give what hes worth when his current team has lost practically most of its leverage? 

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

why give what hes worth when his current team has lost practically most of its leverage? 

 

Because there are multiple teams competing for Rosen.  If the talent gap were as wide as you seem to think it is, someone would have stepped up already.  AZ devalued Rosen by showing serious interest in Murray, but if Rosen were truly that head and shoulders above all the QBs in this class (or all but one) that devaluation would have been minimal.

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29 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Because there are multiple teams competing for Rosen.  If the talent gap were as wide as you seem to think it is, someone would have stepped up already.  AZ devalued Rosen by showing serious interest in Murray, but if Rosen were truly that head and shoulders above all the QBs in this class (or all but one) that devaluation would have been minimal.

I think Arizona is trying to get too much, and they have at least 1 offer on the table and are waiting it out to see who caves first. 

Yes, if he is better than Haskins then a team should be easily willing to give up a top 10 pick

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9 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I think Arizona is trying to get too much, and they have at least 1 offer on the table and are waiting it out to see who caves first. 

Yes, if he is better than Haskins then a team should be easily willing to give up a top 10 pick

 

I don’t know if it’s that they’re trying to get too much.  As the draft nears and then starts, there will be a couple of teams realizing that they have a choice of Lock/Jones or they can instead opt to Rosen.  That’s when I think AZ will get its optimal value.  They can afford to wait.  I would be hard pressed to believe that on day 2 that someone wouldn’t put up a 2nd rounder for Rosen, and that’s the offer on the table (allegedly) right now.

It’s a gamble, but what’s the worst thing that happens?  They get stuck for a year with 2 good young QBs and let them compete with each other and choose the better of the two to move forward with?

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According to SNY's Ralph Vacchiano, the Giants aren't sure if they prefer Josh Rosen to the quarterbacks available in this year's draft.

This comes on the heels of a report from Fox Sports' Joel Klatt that New York is one of at least three teams interested in Rosen, who would be expendable if the Cardinals draft Kyler Murray as many expect. While nothing is set in stone, new coach Kliff Kingsbury is a long-time admirer of Murray, who he sees as a strong fit for his Air-Raid offense. Despite an underwhelming rookie campaign, Rosen still has first-round pedigree and would be a logical replacement for over-the-hill Eli Manning. So far, the Giants have shown minimal interest in both Murray, who they feel is too short, and immobile Ohio State QB Dwayne Haskins.

RELATED: 

New York Giants

SOURCE: SNY

Mar 31, 2019, 8:10 AM

 

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22 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

As the draft nears and then starts, there will be a couple of teams realizing that they have a choice of Lock/Jones or they can instead opt to Rosen.  That’s when I think AZ will get its optimal value.  

I agree

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I'm not really seeing how Arizona has lost any leverage by showing interest in Murray, or even if they take Murray. QB is an entirely different animal than other positions, and Murray and Rosen combined would still make less than half of a lot of starting QB's. They can absolutely sit tight, and wait for a 1st rounder.

On a somewhat related note, when it comes to teams having to decide to draft a QB, or attempt to trade for Rosen, I think Rosen wins almost every comparison. Maybe not Haskins, though I slightly prefer Rosen to Haskins, especially if he can be had for a late 1st, or 2020 1st.

When it comes to guys like Lock, or especially Jones, I don't even see an argument for them over Rosen. Frankly, I don't know what makes either of them better than Will Grier, for that matter, who is projected anyway from early round 2, to early round 4.

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Unless teams don't think Rosen has the talent, I don't know why AZ would NOT wait until at least very close to the draft to accept an offer. With AZ taking Murray, and NYG likely to take Haskins,  WAS is wandering around without a starting QB and there are at least 6 or 8 other teams  (MIA, CIN, NE, OAK, LAC, DEN, PIT?, NO?) in serious need of a QB to groom as a their future starter. Each of these to-be-groomed kids needs to have at least the high upside of being a, NFL franchise QB. As it becomes clear that Murray and Haskins are gone, the other several teams are going to more clearly and see that Lock and Jones are going to cost them their 1st this year, and likely a good bit more to trade up. Rosen at a cheaper price? If two take Lock and Jones, that leaves at least 7 teams looking to next year in a class that may have 2 great QBs, maybe even 3 or 4, but those will all cost 1st rounders plus probably another chunk to move up into the 2020 star QB derby. It gets very speculative and will get very expensive very quickly. 

In that climate and with that need, I would be glad to give up my later 1st this year for Rosen instead of waiting for next year to compete with 6 or 7 or more teams for whatever that class brings to the table - particularly if I am the Pats or Chargers or Steelers and know my next year's first won't bring me squat without trading a fortune to move way up. 

 

Looking at that future, Rosen begins to look extremely cheap as a 1st rounder, even with the uncertainty in his first year. Discount QBs rookie years in bad offenses! If I were AZ, I'd be watching what develops (and thinking that an early 1st or late first plus may show up) at least until the draft begins. 

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Lot of teams should offer their first for Rosen. He is a better prospect than Haskins and light years better than Lock or loljones. 

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12 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

Lot of teams should offer their first for Rosen. He is a better prospect than Haskins and light years better than Lock or loljones. 

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

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On 3/31/2019 at 10:14 AM, Bronco Billy said:

 

I don’t know if it’s that they’re trying to get too much.  As the draft nears and then starts, there will be a couple of teams realizing that they have a choice of Lock/Jones or they can instead opt to Rosen.  That’s when I think AZ will get its optimal value.  They can afford to wait.  I would be hard pressed to believe that on day 2 that someone wouldn’t put up a 2nd rounder for Rosen, and that’s the offer on the table (allegedly) right now.

It’s a gamble, but what’s the worst thing that happens?  They get stuck for a year with 2 good young QBs and let them compete with each other and choose the better of the two to move forward with? 

That's exactly it, except I think their threshold here is a 1st.  They have little to lose by keeping him.  QB's are the most precious commodity in the NFL, there's zero reason to move him cheap. 

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In the most recent PFF YouTube posting they discussed Josh Rosen and his current worth.  The main guy, have no idea what his name is, said he did not feel Rosen had a final grade based on  last year and said other NFL QBs that struggled their rookie seasons and went onto solid careers so he referenced their predraft college grades and the ones who struggled but went on to successful careers had high college grades.  

Josh Rosen  had a high PFF grade.

Todd McShay posted his current grades of how he put this year's QB class in with other 'current' grades and he had Rosen with a top-ten grade.

McShay's QB grades: 2019 NFL draft class vs. first-rounders since 2016

Quote

 

Note: The "as a prospect" blurbs are how we viewed each player coming out of college. The grades are from my final evaluations before they were drafted.

Josh Rosen, Arizona Cardinals(2018)

Pre-draft ranking: No. 9 overall

As a prospect: "Accuracy, touch and timing are his best traits. He throws from a balanced base and gets the ball out on time. He lacks ideal mobility, and turnovers have been an issue (26 INTs and seven fumbles lost in 30 starts), but the reality is that Rosen carries an elite grade based solely on his tape. If a quarterback-needy team at the top of the draft passes on Rosen, it will have everything to do with concerns regarding his durability and football character."

In the NFL: Rosen won just three of his 13 starts in 2018 and threw three more interceptions than touchdowns on the year. His first season in the NFL didn't have many highlights, but he also was victim to a weak supporting cast in Arizona. With trade rumors already starting for the former UCLA quarterback, Rosen might soon have a change of scenery.

 

If you were curious, here are how he has three of the QBs from this draft class ranked.

-----------------

GRADE: 90

Kyler Murray, Oklahoma (2019)

Current ranking for 2019: No. 12 overall

----------------

Dwayne Haskins, Ohio State (2019)

Current ranking for 2019: No. 13 overall

---------------

GRADE: 89

Drew Lock, Missouri (2019)

Current ranking for 2019: No. 18 overall

--------------------------------------------------------------

Go to the link to see which others McShay gave high grades to and where they rank compared to Rosen and other pre-draft QB grades.

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ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports the Redskins are "doing genuine due diligence" on Josh Rosen.

Washington will possibly get back Alex Smith in 2020 and brought in Case Keenum as a stopgap, but their quarterback situation is far from settled. Given that uncertainty, trading for last year's No. 10 overall pick on a team friendly deal would be an excellent move if the price is right. Rosen has also been linked with the Giants, Chargers, and Patriots.

RELATED: 

Washington Redskins

SOURCE: Chris Mortensen on Twitter

Apr 2, 2019, 7:43 AM

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9 hours ago, Faust said:

 

 

Do it Washington.........even if it takes your 1st round pick. Maybe you get AZ 3rd back too. 

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By my count, I see 8 teams that SHOULD be interested in Rosen

Broncos, Dolphins, Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Jaguars, Titans, Redskins

Some are questionable like the Broncos or Steelers who have "their guy" right now, but Flacco is a backup at this point and Ben could retire any second.  I wonder if Elway is kicking himself that he could of had Rosen instead of Flacco.  He's a pocket passer after all.  

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2 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

By my count, I see 8 teams that SHOULD be interested in Rosen

Broncos, Dolphins, Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Jaguars, Titans, Redskins

Some are questionable like the Broncos or Steelers who have "their guy" right now, but Flacco is a backup at this point and Ben could retire any second.  I wonder if Elway is kicking himself that he could of had Rosen instead of Flacco.  He's a pocket passer after all.  

What about the Giants?

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

What about the Giants?

Good call, forget them for a second.  Still early for my brain to think more than 8 I guess.  

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Patriots should also be interested if the cost of acquisition is the right value.

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4 hours ago, Zyphros said:

By my count, I see 8 teams that SHOULD be interested in Rosen

Broncos, Dolphins, Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Jaguars, Titans, Redskins

Some are questionable like the Broncos or Steelers who have "their guy" right now, but Flacco is a backup at this point and Ben could retire any second.  I wonder if Elway is kicking himself that he could of had Rosen instead of Flacco.  He's a pocket passer after all.  

The reality is that every team in the league should be inquiring to find out the asking price.  Taking him on just to flip him later for a profit should be pursued.

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2 hours ago, tangfoot said:

The reality is that every team in the league should be inquiring to find out the asking price.  Taking him on just to flip him later for a profit should be pursued.

Definitely, but I think your missing that teams with good incumbent QB's would pay what I assume is a high price for him.  If he was just available for a 2nd rounder, I can't imagine a team that wouldn't make that deal, even if they had Aaron Rodgers for example.  That's a huge win to show him off in pre-season and add the "he learned behind Rodgers" card to Rosen's resume when shopping him again the year after.  But the price is likely higher than that to sway teams with good starters in place out of that running.  Wherever he goes or even if he stays, I really like his outlook for the future.  He showed one hell of a lot for his team when his coach was in WAY over his head.  

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16 hours ago, Milkman said:

Redskins should offer their 1st, 3rd for Rosen and Ari 3rd........

Seems like if you value Rosen at 1.16 or 1.17 you make that deal if you're Washington. 

That slot is not as far off as your deal sounded to me at first.  

Per Pro-Football-Reference's draft calculator/table, Washington's first pick is worth 1050 points and their 3rd is worth 210

AZ's third is worth 265, leaving us with 995, which is around 1.16-1.17. 

eta* edited for clarity and why I ran the numbers. Thanks for the compliment, Milkman. Good work on the hypo.  

Edited by rockaction
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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

Seems like you value Rosen at 1.16 or 1.17 if you make that deal if you're Washington. 

That's not as far off as your deal sounded.  

Per Pro-Football-Reference's draft calculator/table, Washington's pick is worth 1050 points and their 3rd is worth 210

AZ's third is worth 265, leaving us with 995, which is around 1.16-1.17. 

Awesome info! Thanks! I like Rosen and think it makes sense for the Skins to trade for him. They could win the NFC East next year if he's their starting QB imo......

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