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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Josh Rosen, Cardinals

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I'm surprised there's not more buzz about this guy. he seems to be one of, if not the smartest QB in this class, a film rat, and showing amazing leadership skills. 

IMO, he has the opportunity and potential to be the best qb out of this class and the next big thing. I'm really surprised the hype is on a few other QBs

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I'm surprised there's not more buzz about this guy. he seems to be one of, if not the smartest QB in this class, a film rat, and showing amazing leadership skills. 

IMO, he has the opportunity and potential to be the best qb out of this class and the next big thing. I'm really surprised the hype is on a few other QBs

Agreed. Nothing but positive news coming out so far. But, he’s got a pretty good guy in front of him. But that guy is always hurt.

IF Bradford stays healthy, it could be awhile before Rosen sees the field. But he won’t stay healthy...

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Bradford is average at best. The only thing he excels at is generating big contracts and getting teams to make stupid trades for him.

Poor yards per attempt, poor completion percentage, poor pocket awareness, mediocre TD percentage, decent interception percentage. Don't know why people still buy into him.

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I’m a strong believer in Rosen’s talent and had he and Mayfield neck & neck as the best QBs in this draft, with Rosen having a very slight edge, in this class right up to the draft.  When Mayfield went to CLE and Rosen dropped to 10 going to AZ it spooked me and made me go with Mayfield instead - with no regrets, I’ll add.  I thought there was something I just must have missed on Rosen and I like the opportunity in CLE better.

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3 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

I’m a strong believer in Rosen’s talent and had he and Mayfield neck & neck as the best QBs in this draft, with Rosen having a very slight edge, in this class right up to the draft.  When Mayfield went to CLE and Rosen dropped to 10 going to AZ it spooked me and made me go with Mayfield instead - with no regrets, I’ll add.  I thought there was something I just must have missed on Rosen and I like the opportunity in CLE better.

I took Rosen right after Mayfield. I was happy with either one. I agree on them being neck and neck and Mayfield with a better opportunity. I'm just surprised at the hype train being slow out of the gates

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10 hours ago, kutta said:

Agreed. Nothing but positive news coming out so far. But, he’s got a pretty good guy in front of him. But that guy is always hurt.

IF Bradford stays healthy, it could be awhile before Rosen sees the field. But he won’t stay healthy...

If you look at the top six rookie QBs drafted you will hear positive stories with the top-two but we also hear Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson getting a lot of hype and even Mason Rudolph.  Report circulate of at least one veteran in front of them on the depth chart has been looking good, even reports of Joe Flacco has looking sharper than he has in years.

I go back to how I saw it before the draft where Rosen looked like the best prospect with his remarkable footwork and accuracy but was concerned about his long-term health so for fantasy I was targeting Mayfield.  I'm in a Browns heavy fantasy league so I stand no shot to get Mayfield so I'm hoping to land Rosen in our rookie draft.

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I'm not the least bit concerned about his injury history. 

An ambiguous shoulder surgery described as a debridement of the rotator cuff after a sack (fluke). this is not a huge deal, and I'll explain":

people view the rotator cuff as a single thick tendon, like the Achilles. when people tear their rotator cuff they envision a rope frayed or torn in half. nkt the case. the rotator cuff is a large flat tendon, think of it like a blanket. now consider you have a small tear in that blanket, not a big deal; the blanket is still strong and functions how it's supposed to. A rotator cuff debridement is basically trimming a frayed area.of your blanket so that it doesnt get further ripped up in the washer/dryer. it functions just fine. I would wager a bet that the vast vast majority of posters in this forum, old and young, have some degree of tearing in your rotator cuff. doesnt need to be painful or limiting. everyone has it. 

Concussions are another concern for people. a common misconception is that concussions are like sprains: once you get one you're likely to get more. not entirely true. Many people get multiple concussions, but this is more dire to their playing style than the concussion predisposing to more concussions. it is true, however, that symptoms of a concussion can get worse and longer lasting on the second, third, and so on. many concussions can be fluke hits, many can be from learning how to take a hit, or it could be from a poor OL. in the end, I'm confident that coaches at the professional level are going to coach this part of his game up, teach him decision making and how to better take a hit. I'm not worried about past concussions because that was on a different team under different circumstances 

 

interestingly enough, Mayfield has an almost identical injury history: 2 concussions close to each other and a knee strain 

Edited by Dr. Dan

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Concussions are another concern

It was the length he held out with the concussion suggesting a severe concussion which does cause me to question his 'long-term' health.

EDIT:   I'm still targeting him but I would take Mayfield if he somehow drops.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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13 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

It was the length he held out with the concussion suggesting a severe concussion which does cause me to question his 'long-term' health.

EDIT:   I'm still targeting him but I would take Mayfield if he somehow drops.

he missed one game each... the average concussion takes 10-14 days to recover from according to one of the MDs who helped create the NFL concussion protocol. even he said players going back within a week are likely being rushed, or the concussion was terribly mild

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41 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

he missed one game each... the average concussion takes 10-14 days to recover from according to one of the MDs who helped create the NFL concussion protocol. even he said players going back within a week are likely being rushed, or the concussion was terribly mild

As I said, he is the guy I'm currently targeting but if Mayfield was available I'd take him over Rosen due to long-term health concerns.

---------------------------------------------------------------

NFL Draft Injury Analysis – Josh Rosen’s History…

... biggest concern stems from the fact he was diagnosed “twice” with a concussion within a month. Typically concussion-like symptoms subside after 10 days but that does not necessarily mean the brain is ready for severe contact again. In fact, a mild concussion takes at least 3 months for the brain to fully heal;

Rosen’s Injury History

Rosen may have entered 2017 healthy, but he certainly didn’t finish it that way. During his junior year in 2017, Rosen suffered two concussions in less than a month. As we’ve seen with many other players, subsequent concussions in a short time period raise a major concern about a player’s long-term health. Research suggests that players who experience more than one concussion throughout their career are more likely to experience an additional concussion at a later date. This effect increases as a player suffers more concussions. In other words, a player with five concussions is much more likely to get another concussion compared a player who’s only had two. Concussions are very hard to predict, but we do know that Rosen is at a slightly increased risk for missing time due to a concussion. If he lands behind a poor offensive line early in his career, and he takes more hits than other QBs, his career length could be shortened if he experiences a concussion early on in his career.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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47 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

As I said, he is the guy I'm currently targeting but if Mayfield was available I'd take him over Rosen due to long-term health concerns.

---------------------------------------------------------------

NFL Draft Injury Analysis – Josh Rosen’s History…

... biggest concern stems from the fact he was diagnosed “twice” with a concussion within a month. Typically concussion-like symptoms subside after 10 days but that does not necessarily mean the brain is ready for severe contact again. In fact, a mild concussion takes at least 3 months for the brain to fully heal;

Rosen’s Injury History

Rosen may have entered 2017 healthy, but he certainly didn’t finish it that way. During his junior year in 2017, Rosen suffered two concussions in less than a month. As we’ve seen with many other players, subsequent concussions in a short time period raise a major concern about a player’s long-term health. Research suggests that players who experience more than one concussion throughout their career are more likely to experience an additional concussion at a later date. This effect increases as a player suffers more concussions. In other words, a player with five concussions is much more likely to get another concussion compared a player who’s only had two. Concussions are very hard to predict, but we do know that Rosen is at a slightly increased risk for missing time due to a concussion. If he lands behind a poor offensive line early in his career, and he takes more hits than other QBs, his career length could be shortened if he experiences a concussion early on in his career.

that is completely incorrect. I don't have material right now to refute it, doc's presentation is at my desk. I specifically remember him talking about this and refuting it adamantly. correlation does not equal causation 

the rest, yes I agree. I just wanted to point out that Mayfield sustained 2 concussions close together as well, but yet you seem to have no concerns about his long term health.

Edited by Dr. Dan
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On 6/16/2018 at 11:35 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

, a mild concussion takes at least 3 months for the brain to fully heal;

Speaking as a neuropsychologist who studies and treats concussions, this is complete and utter b.s.  

We honestly don’t know when the physical brain has fully “healed.”  Rodent and animal models are of little help.  Human studies are far worse for obvious reasons.  But, we know that the metabolic crisis is generally resolved within a few days to weeks and complete resolution of symptoms occurs within a couple of weeks for the vast majority of adults (a little longer for pediatric patients).

But, there is no “at least 3 months” to this.  

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On 6/16/2018 at 11:57 AM, Dr. Dan said:

that is completely incorrect. I don't have material right now to refute it, doc's presentation is at my desk. I specifically remember him talking about this and refuting it adamantly. correlation does not equal causation 

the rest, yes I agree. I just wanted to point out that Mayfield sustained 2 concussions close together as well, but yet you seem to have no concerns about his long term health.

This.  

Practically everything that physical therapist wrote is wrong.

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Quote

Josh Rosen completed 6-of-13 passes for 41 yards with no touchdowns or interceptions Saturday in the Cardinals' preseason opener against the Chargers.

The tenth overall pick entered the game with 1:52 remaining in the first quarter and played up until halftime, when he was replaced by third-stringer Mike Glennon. The second unit did Rosen no favors as center Daniel Munyer struggled snapping the football while the offensive line had the rookie QB running for his life. Rosen had his moments including a 21-yard completion to Gabe Holmes in the second quarter, though ultimately it was not a memorable debut for the former UCLA Bruin. Beat writer Kent Somers of the Arizona Republic said the 21-year-old didn't look like "the most NFL-ready quarterback" on Saturday while adding that Rosen's performance did little to threaten Sam Bradford's job security.

Aug 12 - 9:56 AM

 

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54 minutes ago, saintfool said:

anyone see how the kid looked? o-line didn't do him any favors apparently...

He looked fine. Decent pocket presence and scrambling ability. The second string (actually third but second now) center sucked bad and rolled every other ball to him, so that hurt. He looked pretty accurate overall.

I’d say he didn’t do anything to really upgrade him, but he also didn’t do anything to downgrade him.

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19 hours ago, saintfool said:

anyone see how the kid looked? o-line didn't do him any favors apparently...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcPqFcv04vo

That center should be unemployed ASAP.  

Watching that, I get the sense that he wants to be more of a touch, accuracy passer.  He had that one intermediate throw down the seam, without much zip on it, but it seemed to me that was his intention, thread the needle.  I think he needs to get the feel for when to do that, and when to zip it.  Can't be Chad Pennington every play, they'll start picking you off.  

He had a pass in the flat, could have been a Pick-6.  That, to me, was a young QB realizing these NFL guys break on the ball for real.  Feel like I've seen every young QB throw that ball. 

Not scared of pressure, that's clear.  Great to see, but he's not built to take a lot of punishment, so the Cards priority should be building a wall in front of him.  

Not as great a start as others, but nothing terrible.  He's accurate, and that's most important.  

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40 minutes ago, massraider said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcPqFcv04vo

That center should be unemployed ASAP.  

Watching that, I get the sense that he wants to be more of a touch, accuracy passer.  He had that one intermediate throw down the seam, without much zip on it, but it seemed to me that was his intention, thread the needle.  I think he needs to get the feel for when to do that, and when to zip it.  Can't be Chad Pennington every play, they'll start picking you off.  

He had a pass in the flat, could have been a Pick-6.  That, to me, was a young QB realizing these NFL guys break on the ball for real.  Feel like I've seen every young QB throw that ball. 

Not scared of pressure, that's clear.  Great to see, but he's not built to take a lot of punishment, so the Cards priority should be building a wall in front of him.  

Not as great a start as others, but nothing terrible.  He's accurate, and that's most important.  

I thought those balls had enough zip on them.  Not Stafford zip, but pace.  Just an easy smooth motion makes it look that way.

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Josh Rosen completed 10-of-16 passes for 107 yards and a touchdown in the Cardinals' second preseason game.

Rosen came in on the third series after taking a beating behind the second-team offense line last week. He rebounded from his rough debut, throwing a 13-yard strike to Christian Kirk on his first drive. Sam Bradford is locked in as the Cardinals' Week 1 starter, but there's a lot to like with Rosen's post-draft development. Rosen may need a Bradford injury to see rookie-year starts.

Aug 17 - 10:24 PM

 

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6 minutes ago, Faust said:
Quote

Josh Rosen completed 10-of-16 passes for 107 yards and a touchdown in the Cardinals' second preseason game.

Rosen came in on the third series after taking a beating behind the second-team offense line last week. He rebounded from his rough debut, throwing a 13-yard strike to Christian Kirk on his first drive. Sam Bradford is locked in as the Cardinals' Week 1 starter, but there's a lot to like with Rosen's post-draft development. Rosen may need a Bradford injury to see rookie-year starts.

Aug 17 - 10:24 PM

Well then!

 

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

He lookes good. I'm super excited about him and DJ. 

I’d add Kirk in there too. He really looked good and him and Rosen seem to have something going on.

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26 minutes ago, kutta said:

I’d add Kirk in there too. He really looked good and him and Rosen seem to have something going on.

Yeah I saw that too. Definitely will be watching closer. I like what I've seen so far. 

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Cardinals OC Mike McCoy is giving first-round QB Josh Rosen freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage.

McCoy gave Philip Rivers free reign of the offense during his time in San Diego and it appears Rosen will be afforded a similar level of freedom. "The headset cuts off at 15 seconds, so he can’t say everything," said Rosen. "He wants us to be able to try to fix things here and there." The 10th overall pick struggled somewhat in his first outing but fared much better in his second preseason game Friday against New Orleans. The 21-year-old will begin his career as the backup to veteran Sam Bradford.

Source: azcardinals.com 

Aug 20 - 1:37 PM

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7 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

I don't get putting a rookie in when you're in a 2-minute drill at the end of the game. Very strange.

:shrug:  Starting QB just finished the last three drives - Int, Int, Fumble

 

How much worse does he have to be?

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Hopefully he starts next week. I like Rosen. Seemed like a goofy kid a couple if years ago at UCLA, but last season he got to the next level and carried them with the offense. I think he’s got the goods. 

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3 minutes ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Why would you throw him into the fire like that?  Not the end of the world but that's not how to do it.  And against the Bears D?  Dumb.

Who cares? Why wait for the right time? he's going to be successful regardless. 

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16 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

:shrug:  Starting QB just finished the last three drives - Int, Int, Fumble

 

How much worse does he have to be?

The team should be worried about putting Rosen in a position to succeed, not go 4-12 instead of 3-13.

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7 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

The team should be worried about putting Rosen in a position to succeed...

Unless they're going to trade him, that ship sailed awhile ago. 

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6 minutes ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Why would you throw him into the fire like that?  Not the end of the world but that's not how to do it.  And against the Bears D?  Dumb.

 Very dumb. Coaching staff looks overmatched right now.

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25 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

The team should be worried about putting Rosen in a position to succeed, not go 4-12 instead of 3-13.

Well that means they would have to trade him out of Zona

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Man Rosen looks good. Guy has a tight spiral. looks smooth when he releases it. just hope AZ doesnt screw him up throwing him to the wolves. Take a lesson from KC

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