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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Josh Rosen, Cardinals

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21 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

as a Rosen owner I like him on the skins

Yeah he would do well. The Cards offense should be better this year though. It can't get much worse.....plus I like the Cards weapons better and the continuity Rosen would build with them. 

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Rosen is/was a top notch prospect, who had a tougher situation that any QB in the NFL last year. If the Cards are serious about taking Murray and dealing Rosen, then at least 35% of the league should be interested. I personally would rather have Rosen than any QB in this class other than Murray.

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Taking Murray at 1 and trading Rosen away looks like the right call for Arizona. Getting the QB position right is hugely important, and if they're willing to make that move then I'll count it as a big point in favor of the Cardinals' leadership.

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Just now, Yenrub said:

I would be fine with the Skins giving up a 3rd for Rosen and a 2nd for AB. We'd be champions of the offseason again....and probably losers during the season...again. :bag:

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25 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Honestly, if that is all the Cards can get, they may as well just keep Rosen. Its not like they have to get rid of him, he and Murray's deals combined would still be among the cheapest QB rooms in the NFL. 

That report seems fishy to me. Probably from somebody who wants to get Rosen on the cheap. I still think a late 1st is very possible, or 2 2nd rounders.

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42 minutes ago, travdogg said:

That report seems fishy to me. Probably from somebody who wants to get Rosen on the cheap.

:fishy::fishy::fishy:

Last year I went fishing with Salvador Dali.

He was using a dotted line.

He caught every other fish.

                                 - Steven Wright
 

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

Honestly, if that is all the Cards can get, they may as well just keep Rosen. Its not like they have to get rid of him, he and Murray's deals combined would still be among the cheapest QB rooms in the NFL. 

That report seems fishy to me. Probably from somebody who wants to get Rosen on the cheap. I still think a late 1st is very possible, or 2 2nd rounders.

 

So Rosen is twice as good as Garappolo was at the time he was traded?

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I'm confident that if the Redakins are involved, the Cardinals will wind up getting more than their asking price. It's just how things work around here. You go, Danny!

:bag:

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1 hour ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

So Rosen is twice as good as Garappolo was at the time he was traded?

Well, yeah. I mean, Rosen has 4 years left on a rookie deal, where as Jimmy G was in the final year of his deal. Also, the Patriots didn't deal him in the offseason, when they almost certainly could have gotten more, they dealt him halfway through his contract year. 

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A 3rd rounder? Wow. He was picked 10th last year in a heavy QB class and down to a 3rd rounder? Has his value really declined that much? I would be shocked if it has.

(Rotoworld) NBC Sports' Peter King was told the Cardinals might only get a third-round pick for Josh Rosen.

Analysis: "Probably a three," a "renowned NFL GM" told King. "Not what the Cardinals would think his value is." The Cardinals are reportedly planning to select Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick, meaning they need to trade Rosen. Owed a total of $1.98 million in base salary over the next three seasons with minimal roster bonuses, Rosen's contract will be extremely team-friendly for whichever organization trades for him. Teams with aging starters, like the Patriots and Chargers, will likely take a long look if Rosen is actually available.

Edited by Tool

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This smacks to me of pure BS.  I see why they would trade him.  I don't get why it would be for a 3rd? 

He is on a cheap contract. Most of his cap hit was in the signing bonus, so ARI is already on the hook for that.  There is still value in him as protection for Murray not being all that or getting hurt.  He's probably a top 3 backup QB for cheap $s.  So what's the point of trading him without getting something solid back?

More likely they get a mid 1st - early 2nd, but have to throw in a later pick back to the other team.

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1 hour ago, Brunell4MVP said:

This smacks to me of pure BS.  I see why they would trade him.  I don't get why it would be for a 3rd? 

He is on a cheap contract. Most of his cap hit was in the signing bonus, so ARI is already on the hook for that.  There is still value in him as protection for Murray not being all that or getting hurt.  He's probably a top 3 backup QB for cheap $s.  So what's the point of trading him without getting something solid back?

More likely they get a mid 1st - early 2nd, but have to throw in a later pick back to the other team.

 

Personally I like Rosen’s chances to be a startable QB, but he has not shown franchise QB traits yet.  No one is going to pay franchise prices for him no matter how cheap his contract is.  

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Just now, Bronco Billy said:

 

Personally I like Rosen’s chances to be a startable QB, but he has not shown franchise QB traits yet.  No one is going to pay franchise prices for him no matter how cheap his contract is.  

Exactly. Draft status means nothing after the first year. Statistics don’t lie, and players are judged by these metrics as well as wins. Unfortunately for Arizona, Rosen didn’t provide good numbers or wins. We’ll find out soon enough but I’m thinking 3rd is most likely unless Skins overpay with a 2nd (they would be the most likely since our GM is an idiot) 

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38 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Personally I like Rosen’s chances to be a startable QB, but he has not shown franchise QB traits yet.  No one is going to pay franchise prices for him no matter how cheap his contract is.  

That's the point though.  If nobody is willing to pay a late 1st/high 2nd, I don't see why ARI would trade him.  I get that teams like MIA, WAS, etc would like to have him and that for a 3rd rounder he'd be a smart move for many teams.  But from ARI's perspective, it's cheaper to keep him as a quality backup in case Murray gets hurt.  Rosen may not like it.  But tough break.  Sit on the bench and be ready if you are needed.

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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just because on former GM says ye is worth about a 3 doesnt mean that is his value. if a team pays more than a 3 they are hardly "over paying." For crying out loud a week ago if someone said your QB needy team could get Josh Rosen for a 2nd youd probably have said it's a bargain. Now one FORMER GM says hes kaybe worth a 3, and suddenly a GM paying a 2nd is an idiot

 

I'll wait for people to call BB an idiot for paying a 2nd in the event he pulls the trigger 

Edited by Dr. Dan

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1 hour ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Personally I like Rosen’s chances to be a startable QB, but he has not shown franchise QB traits yet.  No one is going to pay franchise prices for him no matter how cheap his contract is.  

I think he has shown flashes of a franchise QB it's just that offense scheme was so bad last year it's harder to see it. He showed great touch at times and I liked how he reacted to adversity. If I'm the skins I'm giving up a 2nd pretty happily. 

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1 hour ago, Brunell4MVP said:

That's the point though.  If nobody is willing to pay a late 1st/high 2nd, I don't see why ARI would trade him.  I get that teams like MIA, WAS, etc would like to have him and that for a 3rd rounder he'd be a smart move for many teams.  But from ARI's perspective, it's cheaper to keep him as a quality backup in case Murray gets hurt.  Rosen may not like it.  But tough break.  Sit on the bench and be ready if you are needed.

I like this take. Sit him on the bench and try to set him up to have an amazing preseason against the 2nd/3rd teamers. Then sit for the year and his value probably goes up come this time next year. Will still have 2 years left on the rookie deal. Can probably get a 2nd if that's not what people are already offering.

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38 minutes ago, FreshiZ said:

I like this take. Sit him on the bench and try to set him up to have an amazing preseason against the 2nd/3rd teamers. Then sit for the year and his value probably goes up come this time next year. Will still have 2 years left on the rookie deal. Can probably get a 2nd if that's not what people are already offering.

next years QB class is pretty good. I disagree that his value will be higher next year 

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26 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

next years QB class is pretty good. I disagree that his value will be higher next year 

Ya, good point. I still like the take of just keeping him if really a 3rd is all that's being offered. Injuries happen, maybe he's valued higher than next year's 2nd tier rookie QB's, etc...

If he shows well in preseason and all he does is sit all year but is a good teammate, I doubt his value will drop from where it is now.

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2 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

He’s worth a 1 still and they shouldn’t move him for less

Sometimes you just gotta cut your losses

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2 hours ago, Milkman said:

I think he has shown flashes of a franchise QB it's just that offense scheme was so bad last year it's harder to see it. He showed great touch at times and I liked how he reacted to adversity. If I'm the skins I'm giving up a 2nd pretty happily. 

I'd agree with that. There are actually a bunch of similarities between Rosen's 2018 and Goff's 2016.

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44 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

He’s worth a 1 still and they shouldn’t move him for less

Most qb needy teams are in the top 10, and hes not worth a top 10 pick. 2nd is fair imo, especially if it is high. 

Rosen does AZ no good on their bench when they could get a decent player round 2 who can contribute day 1. 

sure, they can hold him if no one matches their price... then they have sunk back to back 1st round picks into the QB position... which is just a waste of high picks. Get a 2nd or even a 3rd rounder and you get at least something.

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On 3/3/2019 at 1:46 PM, travdogg said:

Rosen is/was a top notch prospect, who had a tougher situation that any QB in the NFL last year. If the Cards are serious about taking Murray and dealing Rosen, then at least 35% of the league should be interested. I personally would rather have Rosen than any QB in this class other than Murray.

👍

He would be the second QB drafted and the Cards have already paid a chunk of his salary. If I liked him, I would be on the phone now with the Cards.

The Cards will get a 1st for him.

Edited by metoo
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1 minute ago, Shawnky said:

What losses?

That you may not get a top 10 pick for him in a trade but if you know he's not your guy, then just move on with an acceptable loss

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7 minutes ago, FreshiZ said:

That you may not get a top 10 pick for him in a trade but if you know he's not your guy, then just move on with an acceptable loss

They weren't getting a top 10 pick for him in any scenario.

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Pats liked Rosen a lot coming out of college.  Would think they'd offer pick 64. Not sure if Cards would take that or not.

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13 hours ago, Brunell4MVP said:

That's the point though.  If nobody is willing to pay a late 1st/high 2nd, I don't see why ARI would trade him. 

I could see a few reasons:

1. They would have spent the 1.01 and 1.10 in consecutive seasons to have a starting and backup QB - with one of the worst rosters in the NFL. At least trading Rosen for a third allows them to add some talent at another position - and the 1.10 is a sunken cost anyway.

2. Can you imagine the tension in the QB room with Rosen and Murray together? Sure this can be overcome to some degree but it presents an awkward situation and the concept of teamwork is lost.

3. One of the QBs is not going to get developed properly as there are only so many reps to go around - especially once the season starts.

4. If Rosen gets relegated to being a backup, his value only goes down. If you think getting a third sucks now, how about a seventh next offseason?

5. These two QBs are very dissimilar in their styles, meaning the whole offence would need to change if Murray went down with injury. I'm not sure Rosen fits the air-raid offense.

6. A veteran that is similar in style and that can work with Murray, say like a Tyrod Taylor is likely a better fit.

 

With all that said, the report of Arizona only getting a third is most likely bunk at this point. A lo of misinformation spreads this time of year. I could see a late first or an early to mid-second still being in play. Sure Rosen was poor last season, but he was in a bad offense and is still young. He had the talent that lead to him being a consensus top 10 pick in most mocks and the actual NFL draft.

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I think the Redskins end up giving their second and a late pick - it makes a ton of sense given their situation to get this done.

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Albert Breer‏Verified account @AlbertBreer

I know @PSchrags mentioned it, but it's worth reiterating this, on Cards QB Josh Rosen. Check out his cash outlay the next 3 years ...

  • 2019: $1.28 million
  • 2020: $2.08 million
  • 2021: $2.88 million

That's $2.08 million per. Or in b/w what the 32nd and 33rd picks last year got.

9:28 AM - 4 Mar 2019

-----------------------------------------

Bradford couldn't produce in that offense and got benched, his OC got fired during the season and was replaced by a guy who never called plays, his offensive line was one of the worst in the league last , his HC got fired after only one year, his #1 WR had to be talked off the retirement ledge, his top rookie WR got injured and sent to IR.  When he wasn't under pressure and had a clean pocket he had a 'decent' QB passer rating.

I find it funny that everything about that situation was toxic, even his GM got busted for DWI last summer but yeah, it is all him.  

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45 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

 

I find it funny that everything about that situation was toxic, even his GM got busted for DWI last summer but yeah, it is all him.  

 

I don’t think too many people are saying that everything that happened last year in AZ was all Rosen’s fault.

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43 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

I don’t think too many people are saying that everything that happened last year in AZ was all Rosen’s fault.

You and I are on record from last year where we had Rosen as the top QB before the draft and we are also on record as changing gears to Baker Mayfield and haven't looked back.

Obviously Mayfield, Darnold, and even Allen have produced much better or flashed franchise QB potential yet Josh Rosen has not lost his footwork or accuracy within the pocket if he has a clean pocket.

He played in 14 games and started 13.

Over his first 11 games/10 starts he was sacked 29 times with 7 fumbles and 3 lost fumbles.

Over his final 3 games/3 starts he was sacked 16 times with 3 fumbles and 3 lost fumbles.

His protection fell apart at the end of the year.  He had 10 of his 11 TDs over the first 11 games he played but only 1 over the final three games.  Protection helps all QBs but it really helps rookie QBs who are learning.

Baker Mayfield over his first 7 games/6 starts was sacked 22 times. (10 TDs)

Over his final 7 games/7 starts he was sacked 3 times. (17 TDs) 

Mayfield has one of the top interior offensive lines in the league and the OTs stepped up once the OC was replaced and the protections schemes were improved.  Protection is essential for a rookie/young QB to gain confidence/improve.  I think Rosen still has skills but they need to protect him.  

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2 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

I don’t think too many people are saying that everything that happened last year in AZ was all Rosen’s fault.

i think the narrative is going this direction, at least around this board, and it's really tough to put it on him. coming out of college I was hoping he'd land somewhere he can sit for at least one year, I didn't think he was NFL ready. but he's got enough talent that I still think he can be a franchise QB. the problems in AZ was so varied that a first year QB had no chance of succeeding. look at DJ's production, that team needs work. not sure what it was, there was zero chemistry anywhere on that offense.

2 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

You and I are on record from last year where we had Rosen as the top QB before the draft and we are also on record as changing gears to Baker Mayfield and haven't looked back.

Obviously Mayfield, Darnold, and even Allen have produced much better or flashed franchise QB potential yet Josh Rosen has not lost his footwork or accuracy within the pocket if he has a clean pocket.

He played in 14 games and started 13.

Over his first 11 games/10 starts he was sacked 29 times with 7 fumbles and 3 lost fumbles.

Over his final 3 games/3 starts he was sacked 16 times with 3 fumbles and 3 lost fumbles.

His protection fell apart at the end of the year.  He had 10 of his 11 TDs over the first 11 games he played but only 1 over the final three games.  Protection helps all QBs but it really helps rookie QBs who are learning.

Baker Mayfield over his first 7 games/6 starts was sacked 22 times. (10 TDs)

Over his final 7 games/7 starts he was sacked 3 times. (17 TDs) 

Mayfield has one of the top interior offensive lines in the league and the OTs stepped up once the OC was replaced and the protections schemes were improved.  Protection is essential for a rookie/young QB to gain confidence/improve.  I think Rosen still has skills but they need to protect him.  

:goodposting: sucks for him to have this same offensive line problem through college and then come to the pros to have the same. i hope AZ does trade him to a better situation, even if he is a backup for a year or two. staying in AZ will kill this kid's career early.

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Where do you Josh Rosen dynasty owners think he will end up and where do you want him to go? If he is traded.

 

I think he ends up in Washington for the 15th overall.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Where do you Josh Rosen dynasty owners think he will end up and where do you want him to go? If he is traded.

 

I think he ends up in Washington for the 15th overall.

 

 

My guess is a second and another late round pick. Likely Washington's #46, that's a win-win for both Wash & Ari. Ari recoups a solid value pick in the mid-2nd, Wash keeps their 1st with the 5th year option and gets Rosen with a super cheap contract for 3 years and a 5th year option to balance out Alex Smith's ridiculously stupid contract.

Skins could then use their 1st on a WR for Rosen. Ari could use that extra 2nd pretty much anywhere. Makes a lot of sense, so it probably won't happen.

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

I seriously doubt the Redskins give up their 1st rounder. 

surely you cant be serious

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