Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Faust

Dynasty & Redraft: QB Josh Rosen, Cardinals

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

 Josh Rosen 14 games    13 starts - 45 sacks    320 yards    10.3 SK%

Sam Darnold 13 games    13 starts - 30 sacks    204 yards     6.8 SK%

Josh Allen 12 games    11 starts - 28 sacks    213 yards     8.0 SK%

The main difference in their play that I see from these numbers is that Rosen was sacked a lot more than the other two.

The top pass rush defense based on sacks per game last year was Pittsburgh who averaged 3.2 sacks per game. 

Rosen was sacked 3.4 times per game on the year.  Statistically the defenses he faced ranked 7th in terms of pass rush 

Darnold was sacked 2.30 times per game,  Statistically he faced the 14th easiest schedule of pass rush teams.  

Josh Allen was sacked 2.33 times per game.  Statistically he faced the 16th or average easiest pass rush.

Baker Mayfield was sacked 1.78 times per game.  Statistically he faced the 4th toughest pass rush.. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Over the final 3 games

  •  Rosen was sacked at an average of 5.33 times per game
  • Darnold 3 times per game
  • Allen and Mayfield were sacked .667 times per game

On the the year Rosen got sacked at a rate higher than the best sacking defense in the league.  His pass protection got worse and fell apart over the final 3 games. 

Rosen's QB passer rating was 80 when throwing from a clean pocket.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Really?  One example?  The NFL history is loaded with successful QB stories who had bad years when they started as rookies. 

.

There’s a difference between a bad year and looking like a complete bust. As I said, all the other rookie QB’s had their issues last year, but none looked like a bust except Rosen. It’s rare that a QB goes from looking as bad as Goff and Rosen and really turns it around. 

Goff did it with a coaching change so everyone thinks Rosen will too. It’s not that easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, kutta said:

There’s a difference between a bad year and looking like a complete bust. As I said, all the other rookie QB’s had their issues last year, but none looked like a bust except Rosen. It’s rare that a QB goes from looking as bad as Goff and Rosen and really turns it around. 

Goff did it with a coaching change so everyone thinks Rosen will too. It’s not that easy.

 

I’ve said it year after year after year.  Making definitive judgments about a QB’s future in the NFL based upon their play as a rookie can be a serious mistake.  No position has a greater learning curve or more information and technique to ingest and incorporate.  That’s goes to all levels of performance.  Some insight?  Sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

I’ve said it year after year after year.  Making definitive judgments about a QB’s future in the NFL based upon their play as a rookie can be a serious mistake.  No position has a greater learning curve or more information and technique to ingest and incorporate.  That’s goes to all levels of performance.  Some insight?  Sometimes.

No definitive judgement here. Just saying I don’t understand the excitement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Darnold and Allen got much better as the season progressed, I am not sure that Rosen did (although I admittedly did not follow him as closely).

I'm not saying that the book is closed on Rosen and that he's a bust, but the narrative that he struggled while the other rookies looked competent because his situation was so much worse when compared to the others is false. The Jets or Bills don't have anyone close to Larry Fitzgerald or David Johnson on their roster and all three offensive lines were putrid, the difference being Darnold and Allen were better equipped to avoid the rush as they're more athletic than Rosen.

The idea that Josh Allen and Sam Darnold were any better than Rosen was to me is what is false as shown by the numbers I posted.

Yes Darnold had more total passing yards but his adjusted yards per attempt was still pretty mediocre relative to other QB.

Josh Allen was a worse passer than Rosen was.

So if Rosen is such a big disappointment then these two rookie QBs were too.

I think they were rookies and not worth judging them based on their rookie seasons.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Biabreakable said:

The idea that Josh Allen and Sam Darnold were any better than Rosen was to me is what is false as shown by the numbers I posted.

ok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

The idea that Josh Allen and Sam Darnold were any better than Rosen was to me is what is false as shown by the numbers I posted.

Numbers do not reflect the play of Darnold or Josh Allen and how they improved over the season.

They were not getting sacked on the same rate of Rosen, if they had been their numbers would have suffered but lets be honest.  Darnold and Allen showed improvement and Rosen did not.  I do not think the pressure he faced can be dismissed.  I think the pressure he faced had a direct effect on his numbers and the pressure got worse at the end of the year.

Darnold and Allen showed improvement but for anyone saying Rosen is a bust after his rookie season when he was sacked at a higher rate than the highest sacking defense is also not honest.  

Edited by Bracie Smathers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Numbers do not reflect the play of Darnold or Josh Allen and how they improved over the season.

They were not getting sacked on the same rate of Rosen, if they had been their numbers would have suffered but lets be honest.  Darnold and Allen showed improvement and Rosen did not.  I do not think the pressure he faced can be dismissed.  I think the pressure he faced had a direct effect on his numbers and the pressure got worse at the end of the year.

Darnold and Allen showed improvement but for anyone saying Rosen is a bust after his rookie season when he was sacked at a higher rate than the highest sacking defense is also not honest.  

Well the idea that two of these players improved as the season wore on while Rosen did not seems a bit subjective to me, especially under the circumstances that you describe.

Just looking at the game by game numbers it does seem like Rosen was playing a bit better in his earlier games. He had a solid game against the Vikings in week 4 for example. His last 6 games were pretty bad. Meanwhile Sam Darnold had a good 3 game stretch near the end of the season against BUF, HOU, GB before a bad game vs NE in the final game of the year. 

So from that perspective Darnold showed some improvement at the end of the season, Rosen did not.

It is a very small sample size however with perhaps some recency bias thrown in if one looks at it this way.

Josh Allen pretty consistently stunk as a passer all season. His best game was week 17 against the Dolphins, but we all know these last games with nothing on the line can be fluky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

There is a reason that AZ is apparently willing to part with “a bird in the hand”.

if Murray wasn't the (arguably) the top pick for this draft and AZ didn't have the top pick in the draft, would this still be true? what if AZ didn't have a top 5 pick, or what if the clear top 5 picks in this draft wasn't a QB? would there be still this much talk about AZ moving on from Rosen as a given? I would think not. they're in a tough spot. Murray could just as easily be a bust #1 pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Well the idea that two of these players improved as the season wore on while Rosen did not seems a bit subjective to me, especially under the circumstances that you describe.

Just looking at the game by game numbers it does seem like Rosen was playing a bit better in his earlier games. He had a solid game against the Vikings in week 4 for example. His last 6 games were pretty bad. Meanwhile Sam Darnold had a good 3 game stretch near the end of the season against BUF, HOU, GB before a bad game vs NE in the final game of the year. 

So from that perspective Darnold showed some improvement at the end of the season, Rosen did not.

It is a very small sample size however with perhaps some recency bias thrown in if one looks at it this way.

Josh Allen pretty consistently stunk as a passer all season. His best game was week 17 against the Dolphins, but we all know these last games with nothing on the line can be fluky.

Of course it’s subjective - most player analysis is. It goes deeper than the numbers.

I watched every snap Rosen took last year, and my untrained, uneducated viewpoint is that he just isn’t that good of a QB. He looked scared and was very inaccurate, missing some wide open easy plays.

I am NOT saying he’s a bust. I am NOT saying he sucks. I’m saying that I don’t understand why Skins and Broncos fans are happy he may be going to their team. He just didn’t show much to make me think he’s going to be a good QB. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you Kutta.

I haven't seen much of Rosens 1st year. The game against the Vikings stands out to me as he played pretty well for a rookie in that game.

The only rookie who I think stood out by the numbers was Mayfield. Russell Wilson was good as a rookie. I think this is what they are hoping for if they draft Murray which would be an upgrade.

If the price is only a 3rd or 4th round pick then it would be s bargain. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After film study, Chris Cooley was unimpressed with Josh Rosen’s rookie year

The Redskins are in the market for a quarterback. The Cardinals own the No. 1 pick in next month’s draft and might use it to select Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray, which would make Josh Rosen, the quarterback Arizona traded up to draft in the first round last year, expendable.

Rosen, who fell to No. 10 in the 2018 draft after being talked about as a potential No. 1 pick in the weeks beforehand, may not cost a potential trade partner a first-round pick. An NFL general manager and ex-Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner told NBC Sports columnist Peter King that the second-year pro’s value is a third-round selection. Former Redskins tight end Chris Cooley agrees and doesn’t want to see Washington part with much more to acquire the former UCLA star.

“The reason you can do a third is because he does have some upside, he has a year under his belt, and if a third doesn’t work, it’s acceptable,” Cooley said on this week’s “Cooley at the Park” podcast. “I can’t give up a second for a guy I’m unsure of.”

Cooley, who has since warmed to the idea of trading a second-round pick for Rosen, came away unsure of the quarterback after studying his film at UCLA and from his rookie year, during which he threw for 11 touchdowns with 14 interceptions. Cooley acknowledged the caveats required when evaluating Rosen’s performance last year, including the fact that Arizona’s offensive line was rated the worst in the league by Pro Football Focus. Rosen also worked under two offensive coordinators, including a first-time coordinator in Byron Leftwich, and he faced a stingier collection of pass defenses than his fellow rookie QBs.

Still, Cooley noted Rosen was sacked 45 times in 13 games, one more sack than the Redskins’ injury-riddled offensive line allowed all season. Even more concerning, Rosen fumbled 10 times.

“That’s absolutely, undeniably, unacceptable,” Cooley said. “Massive, massive concerns about protecting the ball. … Interceptions and throws into traffic and bad throws I can take in a quarterback’s first year. Go ask Peyton Manning [who threw 28 interceptions as a rookie]. The ball security stuff in the pocket, I can’t accept."

While Cooley said Rosen had double the number of bad plays as good plays as a rookie, he did some things well, such as avoiding and sensing pressure and making intermediate timing throws from the pocket. Cooley said Rosen appeared confident and did a good job trusting his receivers on 50-50 balls.

“It’s a tough league as a rookie; it is for every young quarterback, and it was for Josh Rosen. But I want to start with the understanding that a guy who made most of his throws in college and made a living throwing down the field doesn’t have that luxury in the NFL,” Cooley said. “You love that he has the ability to do it and the sense to do it, but you don’t love that that’s his only ability.”

Rosen has a big arm, but Cooley was unimpressed with his accuracy on short throws as a rookie.

“I watched four games of cut-ups and saw him incomplete nine screens at least,” Cooley said. “He can’t throw a screen. His underneath touch, he’s throwing picks on screens, trying to speed it up and throw it hard at a back, and the D-lineman’s intercepting him. He’s getting it batted on screens; he can’t change his arm angle to get it around a D-lineman. His sense on screens was horrendous."

Cooley also criticized Rosen’s accuracy, vision and decision-making outside of the pocket.

“His throws on the move, rhythm, timing, understanding of getting the ball out on the move — unbelievably awful,” said Cooley, who added that he came across at least 10 other throws by Rosen that should’ve been intercepted during his film study. “… He can’t throw on the move. He’s great under center; he’s great with a base under him. But he misses throws, and he’s late on throws all the time."

Given Cooley’s assessment of Rosen, one might be surprised that he would support the Redskins giving up assets to acquire him.

“The thing I like about Rosen is you don’t need to teach him to be a quarterback at all,” Cooley said on Kevin Sheehan’s podcast this week. “He is capable of doing NFL quarterback things, all the way from the snap to the point where the ball is released. You need to coach him up on understanding and seeing coverage better, which is not uncommon. I think you can teach a guy to read the field better. … He’s a guy you can build around.”

Rosen, who has three years remaining on his $17.5 million rookie contract, would also be a bargain relative to the quarterbacks the Redskins could acquire in free agency.

“If you could trade a second [for Rosen], that’s actually intriguing,” Cooley said Thursday during an interview with Doc Walker on The Team 980. “I think [Arizona will] get more than a third for him. I think the second is something I’d be willing to take a risk on.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/8/2019 at 7:29 AM, Biabreakable said:

Josh Rosen 14 games    13 starts    217 completions    393 attempts    55.2%    2278 yards    11 TD    14 int    4.8 AY/A    66.7 rating    45 sacks    320 yards    10.3 SK%
Sam Darnold 13 games    13 starts    239 completions    414 attempts    57.7%    2865 yards    17 TD    15 Int    6.1 AY/A    77.6 rating    30 sacks    204 yards     6.8 SK%
Josh Allen 12 games    11 starts    169 completions    320 attempts    52.8%    2074 yards    10 TD    12 Int    5.4 AY/A    67.9 rating    28 sacks    213 yards     8.0 SK%

The main difference in their play that I see from these numbers is that Rosen was sacked a lot more than the other two.

Rosen had a lower completion percentage than Darnold, lower yards per completion, and a lower TD rate, in addition to a higher sack rate. That 1.3 AY/A gap is pretty big and it doesn't account for the sacks.

Looking at various advanced stats, Rosen was at or near the bottom of the barrel in pretty much any QB stat, and most of the other rookies were generally below average but never as bad as Rosen.

ANY/A
6.77    Baker Mayfield
6.74    Nick Mullens
5.99    Lamar Jackson
5.24    Sam Darnold
4.74    Jeff Driskel
4.37    Josh Allen
3.53    Josh Rosen

Passing DVOA
8.1%    Baker Mayfield
4.2%    Nick Mullens
-9.2%    Lamar Jackson
-15.1%    Sam Darnold
-16.2%    Jeff Driskel
-35.9%    Josh Allen
-53.0%    Josh Rosen

QBR
54.2    Nick Mullens
53.6    Baker Mayfield
52.2    Josh Allen
48.4    Sam Darnold
45.1    Lamar Jackson
31.6    Jeff Driskel
25.9    Josh Rosen

PFF Grade
84.5    Baker Mayfield
65.3    Josh Allen
64.7    Sam Darnold
64.6    Nick Mullens
56.0    Lamar Jackson
52.7    Jeff Driskel
49.1    Josh Rosen

Rosen is last in all 4, Mayfield is first in 3 and second in the other, and the other guys move around (with Mullens generally near the top and Driskel generally near the bottom).

Edit: Though Mullens & Driskel weren't rookies. They came up in my PFR search I guess because it was the first season where they made it onto a regular season roster but Mullens entered in the NFL in 2017 and Driskel in 2016.

Edited by ZWK
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, ZWK said:

Rosen had a lower completion percentage than Darnold, lower yards per completion, and a lower TD rate, in addition to a higher sack rate. That 1.3 AY/A gap is pretty big and it doesn't account for the sacks.

Looking at various advanced stats, Rosen was at or near the bottom of the barrel in pretty much any QB stat, and most of the other rookies were generally below average but never as bad as Rosen.

ANY/A
6.77    Baker Mayfield
6.74    Nick Mullens
5.99    Lamar Jackson
5.24    Sam Darnold
4.74    Jeff Driskel
4.37    Josh Allen
3.53    Josh Rosen

Passing DVOA
8.1%    Baker Mayfield
4.2%    Nick Mullens
-9.2%    Lamar Jackson
-15.1%    Sam Darnold
-16.2%    Jeff Driskel
-35.9%    Josh Allen
-53.0%    Josh Rosen

QBR
54.2    Nick Mullens
53.6    Baker Mayfield
52.2    Josh Allen
48.4    Sam Darnold
45.1    Lamar Jackson
31.6    Jeff Driskel
25.9    Josh Rosen

PFF Grade
84.5    Baker Mayfield
65.3    Josh Allen
64.7    Sam Darnold
64.6    Nick Mullens
56.0    Lamar Jackson
52.7    Jeff Driskel
49.1    Josh Rosen

Rosen is last in all 4, Mayfield is first in 3 and second in the other, and the other guys move around (with Mullens generally near the top and Driskel generally near the bottom).

Looking at it based on these metrics Rosen looks a lot worse.

The Cardinals had a new coaching staff and then fired OC midseason which looks like it was not a change for the better as Rosen regressed after this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Charley Casserly now blasting Josh Rosen.

"Doesn't work hard enough. Doesn't study enough. Doesn't connect with teammates. Goes off the game plan."

"Josh Rosen, when you go to your new team, you find out what time the janitor comes in. Then you come in and open the place up."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, beef said:

Charley Casserly now blasting Josh Rosen.

"Doesn't work hard enough. Doesn't study enough. Doesn't connect with teammates. Goes off the game plan."

"Josh Rosen, when you go to your new team, you find out what time the janitor comes in. Then you come in and open the place up."

Someone should let old man Casserly that the Internet doesn't forget.....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Someone should let old man Casserly that the Internet doesn't forget.....

Neither does rock and roll.

 

Signed,

Bob Seger

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Someone should let old man Casserly that the Internet doesn't forget.....

Casserly is an idiot, and his opinion holds zero value. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Won't happen, but the Rams should trade for him and move Goff before they need to pay him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Faust said:

They have Arizona to be the favorite? Seriously?

 

While their is a lot of chatter about the Cardinals potentially drafting Kyler Murray with the No. 1 pick in the 2019 draft and trading Rosen, Arizona still has to be seen as the favorite for Rosen in 2019. He's on a very affordable rookie contract the Cardinals, who could use the No. 1 pick to help the team at another position. The team traded up to land Rosen with the No. 10 pick in 2018 and it would mark a dramatic shift to move on from him after just one season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Tool said:

They have Arizona to be the favorite? Seriously?

 

While their is a lot of chatter about the Cardinals potentially drafting Kyler Murray with the No. 1 pick in the 2019 draft and trading Rosen, Arizona still has to be seen as the favorite for Rosen in 2019. He's on a very affordable rookie contract the Cardinals, who could use the No. 1 pick to help the team at another position. The team traded up to land Rosen with the No. 10 pick in 2018 and it would mark a dramatic shift to move on from him after just one season.

why not? he is already on the team, surely they should be the favorite in the odds. 

 

Do you have a team that is more likely than AZ? I may be inclined to take the field over your #1 favorite 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Faust said:

Josh Rosen trade rumors: 5 possible NFL teams for Arizona Cardinals quarterback in 2019

We asked azcentral sports voters that earlier this week to get the pulse for trading the Arizona Cardinals quarterback.

The winner of the poll? The Arizona Cardinals.

Cheap rookie deal for years.  No reason to move him but now five teams rumored to have interest so it boils down to one question. 

Why take a low-ball offer? 

If something make sense then it makes sense but saying the Cards can only get so much means they have to or should move Rosen doesn't make sense.

They don't have to move him and they shouldn't move a player on a cheap rookie deal for a low-ball offer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/8/2019 at 12:03 PM, Bronco Billy said:

 

I’ve said it year after year after year.  Making definitive judgments about a QB’s future in the NFL based upon their play as a rookie can be a serious mistake.  No position has a greater learning curve or more information and technique to ingest and incorporate.  That’s goes to all levels of performance.  Some insight?  Sometimes.

What he said. There's no better example than Eli too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Cheap rookie deal for years.  No reason to move him but now five teams rumored to have interest so it boils down to one question. 

Why take a low-ball offer? 

If something make sense then it makes sense but saying the Cards can only get so much means they have to or should move Rosen doesn't make sense.

They don't have to move him and they shouldn't move a player on a cheap rookie deal for a low-ball offer.

Most backups stink in the NFL. In my opinion, a team needs to make it in the Cards best interest to trade him or they should just keep him.

He's 22. 

Kyler Murray may have less of a chance of busting as the (probable) #1 pick but he still has a high likelihood just like other rookies- he's accomplished nothing in the NFL. Maybe he struggles. There's no way of knowing if Murray is gonna hold up to injuries. If he can truly adjust and adapt to NFL Ds etc. We're all over Sooners QBs because of Baker but did we all forget Landry Jones and Sam Bradford? 

Rosen is 2.5 mil per. The Cards will spend more on a backup if he gets moved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bri said:

Most backups stink in the NFL. In my opinion, a team needs to make it in the Cards best interest to trade him or they should just keep him.

He's 22. 

Kyler Murray may have less of a chance of busting as the (probable) #1 pick but he still has a high likelihood just like other rookies- he's accomplished nothing in the NFL. Maybe he struggles. There's no way of knowing if Murray is gonna hold up to injuries. If he can truly adjust and adapt to NFL Ds etc. We're all over Sooners QBs because of Baker but did we all forget Landry Jones and Sam Bradford? 

Rosen is 2.5 mil per. The Cards will spend more on a backup if he gets moved.

I agree he's young and cheap but I'll add he's still got untapped upside so absolutely no reason to move him unless they get a good offer.

I am high on Kyler Murray.  I really like him more than most.

The only way trading Rosen enters the conversation IMHO is because the incredible fit with the new HC in Arizona makes drafting him a 'possibility' with the first pick so that opens the door for trading Rosen if they get a decent offer.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Bri said:

Most backups stink in the NFL. In my opinion, a team needs to make it in the Cards best interest to trade him or they should just keep him.

He's 22. 

Kyler Murray may have less of a chance of busting as the (probable) #1 pick but he still has a high likelihood just like other rookies- he's accomplished nothing in the NFL. Maybe he struggles. There's no way of knowing if Murray is gonna hold up to injuries. If he can truly adjust and adapt to NFL Ds etc. We're all over Sooners QBs because of Baker but did we all forget Landry Jones and Sam Bradford? 

Rosen is 2.5 mil per. The Cards will spend more on a backup if he gets moved.

I don't see Rosen taking well to Murray being drafted. I can see Rosen pretty much demanding a trade and being an issue in the room if Murray was drafted and Rosen would not fit the new offense that the Cards would install for Murray. Make no mistake if they decide to draft Murray they are trading Rosen.  Cards can wait till draft day or during the draft to move him so to give them all the options available to them or maybe get the best deal possible. I like the idea of trading him before the draft if you have decided on Murray why wait? I don't think the price is going to change that much for Rosen. The fact that we are not in the room with the coaching staff and front office of the Cards we are all just in a wait and see mode.  

Edited by osubuckeyeman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Bri said:

Most backups stink in the NFL. In my opinion, a team needs to make it in the Cards best interest to trade him or they should just keep him.

He's 22. 

Kyler Murray may have less of a chance of busting as the (probable) #1 pick but he still has a high likelihood just like other rookies- he's accomplished nothing in the NFL. Maybe he struggles. There's no way of knowing if Murray is gonna hold up to injuries. If he can truly adjust and adapt to NFL Ds etc. We're all over Sooners QBs because of Baker but did we all forget Landry Jones and Sam Bradford? 

Rosen is 2.5 mil per. The Cards will spend more on a backup if he gets moved.

Arizona signed Brent Hundley this offseason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, osubuckeyeman said:

I don't see Rosen taking well to Murray being drafted. I can see Rosen pretty much demanding a trade and being an issue in the room if Murray was drafted and Rosen would not fit the new offense that the Cards would install for Murray. Make no mistake if they decide to draft Murray they are trading Rosen.  Cards can wait till draft day or during the draft to move him so to give them all the options available to them or maybe get the best deal possible. I like the idea of trading him before the draft if you have decided on Murray why wait. I don't think the price is going to change that much for Rosen. The fact that we are not in the room with the coaching staff and front office of the Cards we are all just in a wait and see mode.  

A lot of people seem to have this thinking about the O. I disagree and think it's untrue. Granted Rosen can't run like Murray and keep plays alive but it's not like the WRs and TEs are going to suddenly be doing cartwheels or some weird stuff. As long as Rosen can hit the slants, screens, and posts, the guy play in this O. There are countless contrasts through NFL history that have proven this true. I mean I didn't see Flacco running a ton nor Lamar Jackson becoming a pocket QB. Young had no trouble in Walsh's O that was built for Montana's pocket presence. I do think they need to reconsider some linemen and look for more lateral ability to aid Murray, but it's not like fast linemen have trouble blocking in-line. I think this is so overblown now and it's just part of the process like two months ago when Murray was too small. It's just a dance we do.

I don't know Rosen's personality and haven't read up on him. Yeah you're right, he can't be a poison in the QB room but even in my little reading about this, I haven't seen anything bad about the guy.

Again backup QBs stink in the NFL. I'm old enough to remember when it was fairly normal to have competitions. I don't see why the Cards can't tell Rosen if he doesn't like it, then beat Murray out and just let it all play out. 

There are only so many teams with starting QB openings and it seems like the college darlings can fill those. If you think this way, then the problem becomes that there isn't a team with a starting QB opening. I think this is an enormous problem for the Cards. If there were ten starting openings and six special college QBs, they'd have four suitors. Everyone seems all set now. (What they need to do is fly him to NJ and let the Giants work him out as much as they want) I think they're looking at teams with questionable starters and that's guys like Mariota where the team has faith in the QB but it could change with another bad year. Those teams aren't giving up a high pick for Rosen. What if their questionable starter pans out?  I think the market is absolutely awful for the Cards to "sell" him as a starter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Arizona signed Brent Hundley this offseason.

I haven't read that he wowed the Packers like Aaron Rodgers did backing up Favre, so this guy is like Cardale Jones to me. Hey I remember you from college, where ya been?

If he is special, then I'd skip drafting Murray but again, I've read nothing like that.

The Cards line is meh so they probably have to have three QBs this season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

why not? he is already on the team, surely they should be the favorite in the odds. 

 

Do you have a team that is more likely than AZ? I may be inclined to take the field over your #1 favorite 

I think the problem is he’s very Cutleresque. I don’t see him playing well with others. Good luck with him in the locker room. Better to move on for everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bri said:

I don't know Rosen's personality and haven't read up on him. Yeah you're right, he can't be a poison in the QB room but even in my little reading about this, I haven't seen anything bad about the guy.

There was nothing but bad stuff about his attitude before the draft last year.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bri said:

I haven't read that he wowed the Packers like Aaron Rodgers did backing up Favre, so this guy is like Cardale Jones to me. Hey I remember you from college, where ya been?

If he is special, then I'd skip drafting Murray but again, I've read nothing like that.

The Cards line is meh so they probably have to have three QBs this season

I don’t think anyone thinks he’s special - you mentioned how much a backup QB would cost them if they drafted Murray and traded away Rosen. I was just saying they have a backup in place already.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

I think the problem is he’s very Cutleresque. I don’t see him playing well with others. Good luck with him in the locker room. Better to move on for everyone.

where do you get this info? I cant find anything that suggests this anywhere

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

wish the Skins would offer a 3rd and get this over with ;)

That should not even come close to getting him. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

where do you get this info? I cant find anything that suggests this anywhere

I’d have to look around, which I’m probably too lazy to, but that was the narrative before the draft. How much if that was misinformation you never know but he does seem a bit prickly. I just can’t see him being happy to sit in the bench for the cards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I don’t think anyone thinks he’s special - you mentioned how much a backup QB would cost them if they drafted Murray and traded away Rosen. I was just saying they have a backup in place already.

oh I misunderstood, sorry

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

I’d have to look around, which I’m probably too lazy to, but that was the narrative before the draft. How much if that was misinformation you never know but he does seem a bit prickly. I just can’t see him being happy to sit in the bench for the cards.

the only thing I can find predraft os that hes a considered a spoiled rich kid. Nothing that he doesnt get along with others or is a loner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i guess i can agree with the cutleresque comment since Rosen has always been that too laid back and no sense of urgency kind of a guy throughout his college career. but i don't know about the implication here that he's a locker room issue. lack of leadership qualities? maybe. in that sense that cutler comparison hits home. he was definitely known to show immaturity early on at UCLA and did not apologize for it.

it is interesting to see hundley land here. i thought rosen had backed up hundley as a freshman, turns out they didn't overlap. but rosen did play as a freshman in a system that was built for hundley. (neuheisel scounted hundley, one of the top 3 dual threat qb's coming out of high school in the country; mora scouted rosen, rated the best high school qb in the country; mora coached both exclusively after neuheisel got the boot before hundley's freshman season). both careers derailed though because of horrendous oline plays, albeit it was largely injury related to the center and both guard positions. seemingly cursed positions for the bruins during that time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Benjamin Allbright is hinting on twitter that he's headed to the Chargers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pigskin Fanatic said:

i guess i can agree with the cutleresque comment since Rosen has always been that too laid back and no sense of urgency kind of a guy throughout his college career. but i don't know about the implication here that he's a locker room issue. lack of leadership qualities? maybe. in that sense that cutler comparison hits home. he was definitely known to show immaturity early on at UCLA and did not apologize for it.

it is interesting to see hundley land here. i thought rosen had backed up hundley as a freshman, turns out they didn't overlap. but rosen did play as a freshman in a system that was built for hundley. (neuheisel scounted hundley, one of the top 3 dual threat qb's coming out of high school in the country; mora scouted rosen, rated the best high school qb in the country; mora coached both exclusively after neuheisel got the boot before hundley's freshman season). both careers derailed though because of horrendous oline plays, albeit it was largely injury related to the center and both guard positions. seemingly cursed positions for the bruins during that time.

 

Well considering he really wanted to go to Stanford but blew his chances by being overbearing is the words used or something to that effect. So yes he has some history. I really don't mind him being a bit of a questioner of how things are done and why. I like my QB to be smart but you have to be able to work with people on that and to say he has not rubbed people the wrong way in his football life seems to be wishful thinking. My opinion is there is no way they keep both. I think the market is a question mark. A team that misses out perhaps due to a trade up or whatnot might be willing to pay more then than before the draft. If this is a smoke screen by the Cardinals hats off to them. The Cards have me convinced they are taking Murray but passing up on Bosa might be very difficult. We are not in the building so very hard to judge how he interacts with the coaching staff and players. I assume keeping both would be an issue. And if they draft Murray as the number one pick this is not a competition it's Murray's job and Rosen is smart enough to see that. I like the kid just hope he lands somewhere he get's his shot. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m just not so sure they would trade Rosen because he is a “problem.” It’s a good bet that any QB drafted at the 10th pick would be pretty disturbed if the team drafted another QB at 1.01 the following year.  Not sure that’s ever happened before, and there’s no doubt it would cause a ruckus on the team. 

If they are going to draft Murray, they need to trade Rosen. It will be a big issue no matter who starts if they are both on the team day one.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.