Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
QB Josh Rosen, MIN (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
That’s got nothing to do with it. If AZ is committed to taking Murray then they’ve lost some leverage on Rosen’s trade value. Other teams understand that so they aren’t going to offer premium value.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Plus the team that trades for him already loses a year of his rookie contract, which has value.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Josh Rosen 4 year rookie deal>>>>>>>>>any of these QBs on a 5 year deal, especially after Murray
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
If that were true, you would have seen the trade for a 1st rounder consumated well before now. There is some very real unknowns whether Rosen, Murray, or Haskins has the best career. If it is the slam dunk you seem to think it is, someone would have stepped up - especially teams on the backside of the first round.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
why give what hes worth when his current team has lost practically most of its leverage?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Because there are multiple teams competing for Rosen. If the talent gap were as wide as you seem to think it is, someone would have stepped up already. AZ devalued Rosen by showing serious interest in Murray, but if Rosen were truly that head and shoulders above all the QBs in this class (or all but one) that devaluation would have been minimal.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I think Arizona is trying to get too much, and they have at least 1 offer on the table and are waiting it out to see who caves first.
Yes, if he is better than Haskins then a team should be easily willing to give up a top 10 pick
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I don’t know if it’s that they’re trying to get too much. As the draft nears and then starts, there will be a couple of teams realizing that they have a choice of Lock/Jones or they can instead opt to Rosen. That’s when I think AZ will get its optimal value. They can afford to wait. I would be hard pressed to believe that on day 2 that someone wouldn’t put up a 2nd rounder for Rosen, and that’s the offer on the table (allegedly) right now.
It’s a gamble, but what’s the worst thing that happens? They get stuck for a year with 2 good young QBs and let them compete with each other and choose the better of the two to move forward with?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'm not really seeing how Arizona has lost any leverage by showing interest in Murray, or even if they take Murray. QB is an entirely different animal than other positions, and Murray and Rosen combined would still make less than half of a lot of starting QB's. They can absolutely sit tight, and wait for a 1st rounder.
On a somewhat related note, when it comes to teams having to decide to draft a QB, or attempt to trade for Rosen, I think Rosen wins almost every comparison. Maybe not Haskins, though I slightly prefer Rosen to Haskins, especially if he can be had for a late 1st, or 2020 1st.
When it comes to guys like Lock, or especially Jones, I don't even see an argument for them over Rosen. Frankly, I don't know what makes either of them better than Will Grier, for that matter, who is projected anyway from early round 2, to early round 4.
On a somewhat related note, when it comes to teams having to decide to draft a QB, or attempt to trade for Rosen, I think Rosen wins almost every comparison. Maybe not Haskins, though I slightly prefer Rosen to Haskins, especially if he can be had for a late 1st, or 2020 1st.
When it comes to guys like Lock, or especially Jones, I don't even see an argument for them over Rosen. Frankly, I don't know what makes either of them better than Will Grier, for that matter, who is projected anyway from early round 2, to early round 4.
Catbird
Footballguy
Unless teams don't think Rosen has the talent, I don't know why AZ would NOT wait until at least very close to the draft to accept an offer. With AZ taking Murray, and NYG likely to take Haskins, WAS is wandering around without a starting QB and there are at least 6 or 8 other teams (MIA, CIN, NE, OAK, LAC, DEN, PIT?, NO?) in serious need of a QB to groom as a their future starter. Each of these to-be-groomed kids needs to have at least the high upside of being a, NFL franchise QB. As it becomes clear that Murray and Haskins are gone, the other several teams are going to more clearly and see that Lock and Jones are going to cost them their 1st this year, and likely a good bit more to trade up. Rosen at a cheaper price? If two take Lock and Jones, that leaves at least 7 teams looking to next year in a class that may have 2 great QBs, maybe even 3 or 4, but those will all cost 1st rounders plus probably another chunk to move up into the 2020 star QB derby. It gets very speculative and will get very expensive very quickly.
In that climate and with that need, I would be glad to give up my later 1st this year for Rosen instead of waiting for next year to compete with 6 or 7 or more teams for whatever that class brings to the table - particularly if I am the Pats or Chargers or Steelers and know my next year's first won't bring me squat without trading a fortune to move way up.
Looking at that future, Rosen begins to look extremely cheap as a 1st rounder, even with the uncertainty in his first year. Discount QBs rookie years in bad offenses! If I were AZ, I'd be watching what develops (and thinking that an early 1st or late first plus may show up) at least until the draft begins.
In that climate and with that need, I would be glad to give up my later 1st this year for Rosen instead of waiting for next year to compete with 6 or 7 or more teams for whatever that class brings to the table - particularly if I am the Pats or Chargers or Steelers and know my next year's first won't bring me squat without trading a fortune to move way up.
Looking at that future, Rosen begins to look extremely cheap as a 1st rounder, even with the uncertainty in his first year. Discount QBs rookie years in bad offenses! If I were AZ, I'd be watching what develops (and thinking that an early 1st or late first plus may show up) at least until the draft begins.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
That's exactly it, except I think their threshold here is a 1st. They have little to lose by keeping him. QB's are the most precious commodity in the NFL, there's zero reason to move him cheap.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
In the most recent PFF YouTube posting they discussed Josh Rosen and his current worth. The main guy, have no idea what his name is, said he did not feel Rosen had a final grade based on last year and said other NFL QBs that struggled their rookie seasons and went onto solid careers so he referenced their predraft college grades and the ones who struggled but went on to successful careers had high college grades.
Josh Rosen had a high PFF grade.
Todd McShay posted his current grades of how he put this year's QB class in with other 'current' grades and he had Rosen with a top-ten grade.
McShay's QB grades: 2019 NFL draft class vs. first-rounders since 2016
-----------------
GRADE: 90
Kyler Murray, Oklahoma (2019)
Current ranking for 2019: No. 12 overall
----------------
Dwayne Haskins, Ohio State (2019)
Current ranking for 2019: No. 13 overall
---------------
GRADE: 89
Drew Lock, Missouri (2019)
Current ranking for 2019: No. 18 overall
--------------------------------------------------------------
Go to the link to see which others McShay gave high grades to and where they rank compared to Rosen and other pre-draft QB grades.
Josh Rosen had a high PFF grade.
Todd McShay posted his current grades of how he put this year's QB class in with other 'current' grades and he had Rosen with a top-ten grade.
McShay's QB grades: 2019 NFL draft class vs. first-rounders since 2016
If you were curious, here are how he has three of the QBs from this draft class ranked.
-----------------
GRADE: 90
Kyler Murray, Oklahoma (2019)
Current ranking for 2019: No. 12 overall
----------------
Dwayne Haskins, Ohio State (2019)
Current ranking for 2019: No. 13 overall
---------------
GRADE: 89
Drew Lock, Missouri (2019)
Current ranking for 2019: No. 18 overall
--------------------------------------------------------------
Go to the link to see which others McShay gave high grades to and where they rank compared to Rosen and other pre-draft QB grades.
Zyphros
Footballguy
By my count, I see 8 teams that SHOULD be interested in Rosen
Broncos, Dolphins, Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Jaguars, Titans, Redskins
Some are questionable like the Broncos or Steelers who have "their guy" right now, but Flacco is a backup at this point and Ben could retire any second. I wonder if Elway is kicking himself that he could of had Rosen instead of Flacco. He's a pocket passer after all.
Broncos, Dolphins, Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Jaguars, Titans, Redskins
Some are questionable like the Broncos or Steelers who have "their guy" right now, but Flacco is a backup at this point and Ben could retire any second. I wonder if Elway is kicking himself that he could of had Rosen instead of Flacco. He's a pocket passer after all.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Zyphros
Footballguy
Good call, forget them for a second. Still early for my brain to think more than 8 I guess.
The reality is that every team in the league should be inquiring to find out the asking price. Taking him on just to flip him later for a profit should be pursued.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Definitely, but I think your missing that teams with good incumbent QB's would pay what I assume is a high price for him. If he was just available for a 2nd rounder, I can't imagine a team that wouldn't make that deal, even if they had Aaron Rodgers for example. That's a huge win to show him off in pre-season and add the "he learned behind Rodgers" card to Rosen's resume when shopping him again the year after. But the price is likely higher than that to sway teams with good starters in place out of that running. Wherever he goes or even if he stays, I really like his outlook for the future. He showed one hell of a lot for his team when his coach was in WAY over his head.
rockaction
Footballguy
Seems like if you value Rosen at 1.16 or 1.17 you make that deal if you're Washington.
That slot is not as far off as your deal sounded to me at first.
Per Pro-Football-Reference's draft calculator/table, Washington's first pick is worth 1050 points and their 3rd is worth 210
AZ's third is worth 265, leaving us with 995, which is around 1.16-1.17.
eta* edited for clarity and why I ran the numbers. Thanks for the compliment, Milkman. Good work on the hypo.
Last edited by a moderator:
Milkman
Footballguy
Awesome info! Thanks! I like Rosen and think it makes sense for the Skins to trade for him. They could win the NFC East next year if he's their starting QB imo......
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
This is definitely a unique situation. I am sure I am forgetting, but I don’t remember a first round QB getting dealt immediately after his rookie year. With QBs being so valuable even if the Cards draft Murray keeping Rosen is not a bad idea if they can’t get what they want in trade. In fact his value could increase if he shows progress in preseason and how he handles the competition.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
I would be pretty happy if the Skins moved a 2nd and future 4-6th rounder for Rosen. I think its unlikely Smith plays again, or at least at a level we'd want. And clearly the rest of the QBs on the roster are career backups. Now they just need to draft a #1 WR in the first and have better luck with injuries this year and they might look like a real NFL team (that has a clown of a GM and owner 
)
)
rockaction
Footballguy
I think that would be a really good deal for the Skins. If that deal's on the table, I would imagine that the only reason AZ hasn't taken it is that they're trying to pry the Pats' first or the Giants' second.I would be pretty happy if the Skins moved a 2nd and future 4-6th rounder for Rosen. I think its unlikely Smith plays again, or at least at a level we'd want. And clearly the rest of the QBs on the roster are career backups. Now they just need to draft a #1 WR in the first and have better luck with injuries this year and they might look like a real NFL team (that has a clown of a GM and owner
squistion
Footballguy
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 21m21 minutes ago
Despite being the subject of rampant trade speculation, Arizona QB Josh Rosen is expected to report to and participate in the start of the Cardinals’ off-season workout program on Monday. Some players who have been subject of trade speculation have declined to report to workouts.
Plus, the Cardinals still have not engaged in active trade discussions to date on Josh Rosen. Other teams have asked about him, but to date, the Cardinals have not shown a willingness to trade him. To date....
Despite being the subject of rampant trade speculation, Arizona QB Josh Rosen is expected to report to and participate in the start of the Cardinals’ off-season workout program on Monday. Some players who have been subject of trade speculation have declined to report to workouts.
Plus, the Cardinals still have not engaged in active trade discussions to date on Josh Rosen. Other teams have asked about him, but to date, the Cardinals have not shown a willingness to trade him. To date....
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Good move by him. Put your head down and work on becoming a good QB. No matter the situation he is still collecting a decent check, might as well keep progressing.
