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QB Josh Rosen, MIN (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
They may hold him as a backup, maybe even let him start the first few weeks on what will again be a disgustingly bad offense. He is still very inexpensive and could become a commodity if he flashes.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
He costs nothing to have for this year and next, even 2021 would be chump change on Year 4 of his rookie deal...and then I think Miami gets to recoup a 3rd if he walks...but I might not have that down exactly right but it's pretty close to that. I don't see Rosen going anywhere.
He threw 2 perfectly thrown bombs yesterday down the field and they were flat DROPPED! Get him some receivers before I say he can't play.
He has no OL, no skill position players at Receiver to speak of, no defense to set him up on a short field once in a while, the kid has no chance to showcase much in 2019 and yet he is showing some flashes.
I'm seeing a great downfield arm but not enough pocket presence or ability to reading defenses to be elite. With a good run game and Oline, he might be good. He was a cheap backup for Murray, but they got rid of him, which says something.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And not an OL that could start on any of the 31 other NFL Teams, that's saying something as well. How can you have pocket presence in this offense?
I know they're tanking for Tua but I don't think Rosen will go anywhere unless someone else trades for him. TT had 450/5TDs on a team that is traditionally known as a run 1st team, it's amazing and the opponent was average but wasn't the Citadel either.
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kutta
Footballguy
Maybe it's not everyone around him. Maybe he just isn't very good.
A lot of teams had a chance at him last year, and the only taker was Miami who gave up a late second round pick. Sounds like most of the NFL doesn't think too much of him. Maybe they are right.
Maybe. I’d just point out that after the draft - which was when Arizona began to look to deal him- there weren’t really any other teams that needed a qb
kutta
Footballguy
Wait, what? If they were looking after the draft, how did he go for a second round pick?
Am I missing what you're saying?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Actually Miami got him In-Draft and AZ was serious about finding him a place to go prior to the draft, they didn't want to groom two young QBs and hope one would stick.
I understand that Rosen probably did not do everything he could in order to succeed in AZ, but I'm watching him throw and his arm is pretty good. I'd like to see him have a professional OL to work behind, not sure he has seen that to work behind. I'd like to see him leading a team not trying to TANK openly and throw football games. NFL isn't going to allow this to happen for long.
There was an article - I think in SI- about how badly Arizona botched the trade process.
kutta
Footballguy
They very well may have. But they traded him during the draft, not after. No matter how badly they botched it.
Right I misspoke. It was after day one so after draft was underway and first round was over.
kutta
Footballguy
I'm sorry, but that's just wrong too. I live in AZ, and followed this very closely. They were talking to teams before the draft, but got serious on day 1 right before the draft started. They wanted a first round pick and no one bit. That's why it went to day 2.
I'm not sure what article you are referring to, but it's wrong if they are saying the Cards weren't trying to deal him until day 2.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Let's move the discussion and shift the focus for just a minute...Arizona went for a QB with a 1st round pick 2 years in a row, that has to set back other key positions that allow a QB to function and look good, yes/no? I was impressed with Murray being able to lead his team from behind 2 weeks in a row, they've covered the spreads and Ravens were heavy favorites. But what I'm getting at is what damage to the franchise is done by going QB twice?
If you draft 1st Round twice same position it doesn't say great things about upper management and the Cards GM has been highly criticized for some of his moves. I'm not anti-Murray although I have to be honest I'm not a real believer just yet.
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That's not wrong, the trade occurred after the first round was over. That's a fact. I never said they weren't trying to deal him until day 2, just that they botched it. Here's the article:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/26/arizona-cardinals-josh-rosen-no-draft-night-trade-first-round
Max Power
Footballguy
Either play Rosen or ship him out. The Fins are a mess. An absolute train wreck.
Why trade a 2nd for a guy that you're not going to start in a rebuilding year? Then the talk of keeping him as a backup because he is cheap? Draft Tua or whoever and get a seasoned #2 QB. That's a much better way to develop a young QB. The dolphins have the third most CAP space available right now. They don't need to worry about saving money on a backup QB.
Put Tua behind that OL and see what happens. It is going to be shades of expansion Texans with David Carr.
They went too extreme with the tank job and aren't even trying to be competitive. Good luck
Why trade a 2nd for a guy that you're not going to start in a rebuilding year? Then the talk of keeping him as a backup because he is cheap? Draft Tua or whoever and get a seasoned #2 QB. That's a much better way to develop a young QB. The dolphins have the third most CAP space available right now. They don't need to worry about saving money on a backup QB.
Put Tua behind that OL and see what happens. It is going to be shades of expansion Texans with David Carr.
They went too extreme with the tank job and aren't even trying to be competitive. Good luck
kutta
Footballguy
I agree 100 percent. Drafting Rosen was a huge mistake.
I like that they corrected it and took a risk on Murray. It’s a hard thing to do - admit a mistake and move on from it. So yes, drafting a QB in back to back years is a big mistake. But the mistake was Rosen, not Murray.
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kutta
Footballguy
dipandglide
Footballguy
I’m not buying Miami taking a QB high 100%. They are a dumpster fire and need to rebuild the whole roster, if Rosen shows anything, they can rebuild other positions and give him a 1-3 year shot. If not, they can get a QB high in ‘21/22 rather than throw one to the wolves in ‘20.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
If you follow the team closely, if you read Armondo Salguero who covers the team...Tank for Tua has been an open game plan for months.dipandglide said:
But i don't disagree that a QB can't succeed on this team right now.
rockaction
Footballguy
When he's in, this guy leads the league in aDOT by about ten yards or so at sixteen yards, four more than his nearest competitor, you guessed it, Ryan Fitzpatrick. Mad Bombers of Ineptitude Unite!
Interesting. Small sample size for Rosen. Fitzpatrick is one of the best at avoiding sacks (only 72 in his last 49 starts before Miami) while Rosen must be among the worst. When Rosen has time, he could be money. But I expect a lot of 3 and outs. Maybe he connects with the unicorn late after the point spread is safe.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, my comment was actually fairly neutral one way or the other about him being good; he seems to like or want to throw deep in that small sample size where he's not the starter (which could indeed affect a ton of things).
As far as throwing to The Unicorn, I'd be happy with that.
dipandglide
Footballguy
He throws a nice ball. He had several nice throws dropped last week and more this week. You need players to hold up their end of things if you want to succeed.
I hope he gets a fair shake if Miami ends up taking a QB high in ‘20. I would love it if my Broncos signed him.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
One post above:
Should have said "...barring injury or inevitable poor performance because he is Josh Rosen."
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
But he was the most NFL-ready quarterback of the 2018 draft . . .
GM Chris Grier is on the hot seat for giving up a late 2nd for Rosen. Josh makes some wow throws, which is why he may have been drafted with the 10th overall pick. But he doesn't see the field or have good pocket presence. He would need a great oline and good weapons to succeed, like the Rams of 2017 & 2018. Apparently no other team was interested.
Going further on Grier, he apparently overruled owner Ross' preference in the 2018 draft for Lamar Jackson, who would've made more of a splash.
Max Power
Footballguy
Rosen has played two seasons behind historically bad offensive lines.
Last season Arizona has 7 offensive linemen go on IR, to include all 5 starters.
PFF ranked the Dolphins OL as the worst in the league before the season started. That rank was given when Tunsil was still on the team too. They've changed their start starting OL lineup 5 times in 5 games. I think they also have the worst average draft position starting OL in the league in the well.
Add to the fact that he has played for 3-13 Steve Wilks and now 0-5 Brian Flores as his head coaches.
I'm not saying the kid is good or will become good, but how can anyone be accurately evaluated considering the above.
Last season Arizona has 7 offensive linemen go on IR, to include all 5 starters.
PFF ranked the Dolphins OL as the worst in the league before the season started. That rank was given when Tunsil was still on the team too. They've changed their start starting OL lineup 5 times in 5 games. I think they also have the worst average draft position starting OL in the league in the well.
Add to the fact that he has played for 3-13 Steve Wilks and now 0-5 Brian Flores as his head coaches.
I'm not saying the kid is good or will become good, but how can anyone be accurately evaluated considering the above.
The barometer in Miami is that he couldn't beat out Fitzpatrick in practice or in the preseason. But Fitzpatrick has game, so maybe that's not fair. The local reporters said he had trouble picking up the offense. In real games, he hasn't been good at looking off defenders, reading defenses or avoiding sacks. As you state, his olines have been horrible. In addition, the skill position talent has been below average, except for DJ in Arizona. He'll probably start some games later in the year, but he's likely an NFL backup QB. Fitzpatrick has a 2 year contract, maybe he'll be the mentor to Miami's QB of the future.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I think Miami traded down or something with New Orleans prior. I would have to look but it felt like on Draft Night that Miami got him for a swan and he also is low salary and a back up that could blossom in a year or two.
We've seen franchises take QBs #1 or top5 overall and somehow it's the back up, the guy who was a 3rd rounder like Kirk Cousins who ends up being the better pick.
Hard to evaluate Rosen with such a terrible team around him.
Edit to add: Pieced the trade details...
So we lost a 2nd, 4th and 2020 5th,
We got back Rosen a 6th and a 2020 2nd.
2nd vs 2020 2nd-wash....4th vs a 6th-Not huge deal, and Future 5th vs Josh Rosen...we got him cheap.
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