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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Josh Rosen, Dolphins

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This is definitely a unique situation. I am sure I am forgetting, but I don’t remember a first round QB getting dealt immediately after his rookie year. With QBs being so valuable even if the Cards draft Murray keeping Rosen is not a bad idea if they can’t get what they want in trade. In fact his value could increase if he shows progress in preseason and how he handles the competition. 

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I would be pretty happy if the Skins moved a 2nd and future 4-6th rounder for Rosen. I think its unlikely Smith plays again, or at least at a level we'd want. And clearly the rest of the QBs on the roster are career backups. Now they just need to draft a #1 WR in the first and have better luck with injuries this year and they might look like a real NFL team (that has a clown of a GM and owner ;)

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51 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I would be pretty happy if the Skins moved a 2nd and future 4-6th rounder for Rosen. I think its unlikely Smith plays again, or at least at a level we'd want. And clearly the rest of the QBs on the roster are career backups. Now they just need to draft a #1 WR in the first and have better luck with injuries this year and they might look like a real NFL team (that has a clown of a GM and owner ;)

I think that would be a really good deal for the Skins. If that deal's on the table, I would imagine that the only reason AZ hasn't taken it is that they're trying to pry the Pats' first or the Giants' second.  

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Adam Schefter‏ @AdamSchefter 21m21 minutes ago

Despite being the subject of rampant trade speculation, Arizona QB Josh Rosen is expected to report to and participate in the start of the Cardinals’ off-season workout program on Monday. Some players who have been subject of trade speculation have declined to report to workouts.

Plus, the Cardinals still have not engaged in active trade discussions to date on Josh Rosen. Other teams have asked about him, but to date, the Cardinals have not shown a willingness to trade him. To date....

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6 minutes ago, squistion said:

Adam Schefter‏ @AdamSchefter 21m21 minutes ago

Despite being the subject of rampant trade speculation, Arizona QB Josh Rosen is expected to report to and participate in the start of the Cardinals’ off-season workout program on Monday. Some players who have been subject of trade speculation have declined to report to workouts.

Plus, the Cardinals still have not engaged in active trade discussions to date on Josh Rosen. Other teams have asked about him, but to date, the Cardinals have not shown a willingness to trade him. To date....

Good move by him. Put your head down and work on becoming a good QB. No matter the situation he is still collecting a decent check, might as well keep progressing.

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2 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Good move by him. Put your head down and work on becoming a good QB. No matter the situation he is still collecting a decent check, might as well keep progressing.

Wow, I read that as Arizona is expecting (counting on) him showing up rather than he has made his decision and he will show up.  Definitely an important difference, I wonder which meaning was intended?

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56 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

TL:DR version - their current situation sucks, their coach wants a QB so he doesn't get fired?

And the majority of our fanbase wants the coach, GM, and owner to get fired :bag:

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Favre was traded after 1 year, although he wasn't quite a first round pick. Drafted by Atlanta with pick 33 of the 1991 draft, traded in Feb 1992 to GB for pick 19 of the 1992 draft.

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Rosen will be a better QB than Murray, and  the Cards will regret letting him go if they do. 

 

Edited by ZenoRazon

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12 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

Rosen will be a better QB than Murray, and  the Cards will regret letting him go if they do. 

 

Maybe, and maybe. Obviously that story won’t be settled for awhile. IMO, given how hard it is to find “your guy” at QB...why not keep both?

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Just now, King of the Jungle said:

Maybe, and maybe. Obviously that story won’t be settled for awhile. IMO, given how hard it is to find “your guy” at QB...why not keep both?

Everything I've seen from Rosen tells me he either starts or will pout. I don't see keeping both as any option.

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Murray has world class speed... so theres that...  

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48 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Murray has world class speed... so theres that...  

Not even remotely close, nowhere close to National caliber speed.

Why keep talking about things you know nothing about?

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26 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

Not even remotely close, nowhere close to National caliber speed.

Why keep talking about things you know nothing about?

:fishing:

 

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Bleacher Report's Matt Miller reports the Cardinals have "at least two offers" for Josh Rosen.

The Cardinals are trying to "save face" and get as a close to a first-rounder as possible for Rosen. That's unlikely after Rosen's rookie struggles, but teams could up their offers closer to the draft. Rosen has a more polished track record than every non-Kyler Murray quarterback in this year's class.

SOURCE: Bleacher Report

Apr 5, 2019, 4:25 PM

 

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ESPN's John Keim believes there's a "solid chance" the Redskins will trade for Josh Rosen.

With Air-Raid enthusiast Kliff Kingsbury enamored with reigning Heisman winner Kyler Murray, Rosen is probably a goner in Arizona. The Cardinals want a first-rounder for Rosen but the odds of that happening are slim to none. Meanwhile Washington needs a quarterback in the worst way—it would be a surprise if Alex Smith plays again coming off a horrific leg injury while journeyman Case Keenum is merely a placeholder. Barring a trade up in the first round, the Redskins won't draft until the 15th pick, at which point Murray, Dwayne Haskins and Drew Lock could all be gone. It's now or never for hot-seat head coach Jay Gruden, who may need to pull a rabbit out of his hat in order to keep his job. Rosen could be that rabbit.

RELATED: 

Washington Redskins

SOURCE: ESPN.com

Apr 7, 2019, 10:06 AM

 

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If the Skins trade for Rosen and draft Garrett Bradbury in the 1st they got a great chance of making the playoffs. 

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5 minutes ago, Milkman said:

If the Skins trade for Rosen and draft Garrett Bradbury in the 1st they got a great chance of making the playoffs. 

Building from the line is crazy important no doubt, but can the Skins afford NOT to take a WR before round 3??? That's my biggest concern. They need a true #1 that can be impactful right away, not a project for down the road...

Edited by ffmail4me

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

Building from the line is crazy important no doubt, but can the Skins afford NOT to take a WR before round 3??? That's my biggest concern. They need a true #1 that can be impactful right away, not a project for down the road...

The draft is very deep with WR talent......imo Rosen is a frachise QB and I'd love to see what ge can do behind a dominant OL. 

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30 minutes ago, Milkman said:

The draft is very deep with WR talent......imo Rosen is a frachise QB and I'd love to see what ge can do behind a dominant OL. 

I agree, but I'm curious what your definition of franchise qb is. 

What player/s would you compare him to, not by his abilities but by his franchise qb potential (I realize these go hand in hand... I'm not asking for a player comparison, rather franchise value conparison)? A high level Brady/Brees/Rodgers type? Or a middle of the line Stafford/Cousins/Eli Manning type? 

Edited by Dr. Dan

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48 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I agree, but I'm curious what your definition of franchise qb is. 

What player/s would you compare him to, not by his abilities but by his franchise qb potential (I realize these go hand in hand... I'm not asking for a player comparison, rather franchise value conparison)? A high level Brady/Brees/Rodgers type? Or a middle of the line Stafford/Cousins/Eli Manning type? 

He has top 5 QB in the NFL ceiling imo. I don't see elite best QB ever ceiling but def think you can build a SB contender with him under center. 

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15 minutes ago, Milkman said:

He has top 5 QB in the NFL ceiling imo. I don't see elite best QB ever ceiling but def think you can build a SB contender with him under center. 

That's great. I see him as a potential top 10 after his rookie year, but I saw top 5 when I drafted him. He's a cerebral quarterback, which I like a lot. 

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NBC Sports' Peter King believes Washington is the "favorite in the clubhouse" to trade for Josh Rosen.

Over the weekend, ESPN's John Keim reported there is a "solid chance" Washington trades for Rosen. The Cardinals are infatuated with Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray, so it seems like a foregone conclusion Rosen will be moved before the draft. The Giants reportedly are "not in love" with Rosen, leaving Washington as the only real suitor unless a team with an older quarterback like the Chargers or Patriots decides to get involved. Rosen did not play well as a rookie, but he was in a bad situation and, most importantly, is on a cheap contract over the next three seasons. The team which ends up trading for him will be getting a bargain.

RELATED: 

Washington Redskins

SOURCE: Football Morning in America

Apr 8, 2019, 7:24 AM

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15 hours ago, Milkman said:

He has top 5 QB in the NFL ceiling imo. I don't see elite best QB ever ceiling but def think you can build a SB contender with him under center. 

Wow. I’ll go on record saying he’ll be extremely average at best, and probably worse than that.

He just didn’t show anything last year to make me think he has top 5 potential. 

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6 minutes ago, kutta said:

Wow. I’ll go on record saying he’ll be extremely average at best, and probably worse than that.

He just didn’t show anything last year to make me think he has top 5 potential. 

I'm not trying to argue he was good last year (because the whole offense wasn't), but I've been doing a deep dive on Gamepass.  I'm a Rosen dynasty owner but could only subject myself to so much Cardinals football in season last year.  Upon further review I think he acquitted himself much better than he's given credit for.  Off the top of my head he had a couple of killer throws from the Chargers game, including one that Kirk flat out dropped.  To be fair he also threw a ghastly pick to Derwin James in the flat.  The real X factor in Rosen's development is where he ultimately gets traded.  Just about anywhere would beat what the Cardinals rolled out there last season.  If it is indeed the Redskins hard to get super excited long term. 

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28 minutes ago, kutta said:

Wow. I’ll go on record saying he’ll be extremely average at best, and probably worse than that.

He just didn’t show anything last year to make me think he has top 5 potential. 

 I agree with you (and I'm not comparing Gruden to McVay because, duh), but Goff didn't show anything his rookie year and looks much better now.  Point being that one's performance in his rookie year does not have to be indicitave of what he will do the rest of his career.  That being said, I'm skeptical that a move from Arizona to Washington will boost Rosen's chances at success.

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26 minutes ago, coachoneill said:

 If it is indeed the Redskins hard to get super excited long term. 

Right now, sure, they have no real WR talent, their OL was injured most of last season, and their RB situation is inconclusive. 

What if the grab NKeal Harry round 2? Assuming they give up their 1st. 

I could see the future being much brighter for him long term than you make it out to be. I agree, it's not the best place of all the rumored destinations, but it's not a wasteland either... depending on the draft.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Right now, sure, they have no real WR talent, their OL was injured most of last season, and their RB situation is inconclusive. 

What if the grab NKeal Harry round 2? Assuming they give up their 1st. 

I could see the future being much brighter for him long term than you make it out to be. I agree, it's not the best place of all the rumored destinations, but it's not a wasteland either... depending on the draft.

You make a good point in that fantasy situations/supporting casts can be quickly turned around (in perception and or reality).  I think part of my skepticism comes from my college coaching background.  Granted Jay Gruden has produced some good fantasy offenses but he feels relatively milquetoast to me scheme wise.  Granted Kingsbury could flame out tremendously, but as a Rosen owner I was excited to see what a non strictly "NFL" offense would look like in Arizona.   Rosen probably not the guy to maximize true "triple option" type RPO's but I was curious to see how an Air Raid structured offense would look in the NFL. 

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6 minutes ago, coachoneill said:

You make a good point in that fantasy situations/supporting casts can be quickly turned around (in perception and or reality).  I think part of my skepticism comes from my college coaching background.  Granted Jay Gruden has produced some good fantasy offenses but he feels relatively milquetoast to me scheme wise.  Granted Kingsbury could flame out tremendously, but as a Rosen owner I was excited to see what a non strictly "NFL" offense would look like in Arizona.   Rosen probably not the guy to maximize true "triple option" type RPO's but I was curious to see how an Air Raid structured offense would look in the NFL. 

Good point, I guess I didnt really look at the scheme. 

However in at least one of my fantasy leagues: in 2016 and 2017, Cousins last two years with Washington he was QB5 both seasons

Now, scoring in that league is a little goofy... no penalties for INTs, so I am not sure where Cousins finished in other leagues, but he was a top 5 talent under Jay Gruden...

 

Edited by Dr. Dan

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50 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

 I agree with you (and I'm not comparing Gruden to McVay because, duh), but Goff didn't show anything his rookie year and looks much better now.  Point being that one's performance in his rookie year does not have to be indicitave of what he will do the rest of his career.  That being said, I'm skeptical that a move from Arizona to Washington will boost Rosen's chances at success.

I agree that QB's can improve. I just don't see how people can say he has top 5 potential and can win a SB. 

Of course he can improve. He had a horrible season last year. Only way to go is up.

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6 minutes ago, kutta said:

I agree that QB's can improve. I just don't see how people can say he has top 5 potential and can win a SB. 

Of course he can improve. He had a horrible season last year. Only way to go is up.

As I showed above, Cousins had 2 top 5 seasons in my league (one in 2016 according to Fantasy Pros)

According to Fantasy Pros, Alex Smith was QB4 in 2017. 2015 Bortles and Palmer were QB4 and QB5. 

Joe Flacco has won a superbowl. So has Foles. 

I dont see it so ridiculous that Rosen could have a top 5 season, and/or could win a SB. Worse QBs than him (IMO) have done it. 

If anything this history shows how worthless the QB position is in 1QB leagues

Edited by Dr. Dan

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Again, I know he was in a bad situation last year. But he was just really really bad.

Formatting sucks here, but the last number is QBR. Rosen is at the bottom of all qualifying QB's.

RK    PLAYER    PTS ADDED    PASS    RUN    PENALTY    TOTAL EPA    QB PLAYS    RAW QBR    TOTAL QBR

1   Patrick Mahomes, KC    77.2    101.0    11.7    3.2    126.0    722    82.0    81.8
2    Drew Brees, NO    60.1    80.2    5.4    6.2    100.5    562    81.9    80.8
3    Mitchell Trubisky, CHI    39.3    43.1    22.1    3.8    80.3    565    72.8    73.0
4    Ben Roethlisberger, PIT    53.5    89.3    8.7    5.1    113.5    762    73.0    71.7
5    Andrew Luck, IND    48.1    84.4    5.0    4.3    103.0    741    71.5    71.7
6    Tom Brady, NE    35.9    63.6    4.4    4.7    82.6    643    68.8    70.5
7    Philip Rivers, LAC    38.1    65.8    -0.9    1.3    79.1    595    71.2    70.0
8    Jameis Winston, TB    32.0    37.8    10.8    5.4    65.6    485    71.8    68.3
9    Matt Ryan, ATL    44.8    60.2    7.4    4.9    92.9    722    70.6    67.9
10    Jared Goff, LAR    29.9    60.8    0.6    4.4    79.9    665    65.4    65.9
11    Russell Wilson, SEA    25.1    32.0    11.0    2.6    69.0    571    65.1    65.6
12    Carson Wentz, PHI    21.2    39.8    1.8    3.1    58.5    488    64.9    64.3
13    Deshaun Watson, HOU    26.4    31.8    17.0    3.8    79.5    702    63.0    64.1
14    Kirk Cousins, MIN    21.8    57.3    -5.1    2.2    71.8    718    60.6    61.9
15    Andy Dalton, CIN    18.4    35.4    2.0    3.4    50.6    433    64.6    61.8
16    Aaron Rodgers, GB    14.3    25.1    17.8    3.2    70.0    737    56.8    60.4
17    Dak Prescott, DAL    17.1    35.1    12.2    2.1    71.7    693    58.6    57.7
18    Joe Flacco, BAL    11.0    30.1    2.9    4.6    43.4    441    58.7    57.3
19    Marcus Mariota, TEN    4.1    14.6    6.7    4.8    42.2    471    53.1    55.6
20    Cam Newton, CAR    13.3    41.7    8.4    0.0    62.6    629    57.4    55.6
21    Nick Mullens, SF    5.9    23.6    -2.8    1.8    29.0    334    56.2    54.2
22    Matthew Stafford, DET    1.7    25.8    4.2    4.2    49.2    647    50.9    53.8
23    Baker Mayfield, CLE    9.4    34.8    0.9    3.6    51.5    580    55.7    53.6
24    Josh Allen, BUF    2.9    -1.8    24.1    3.5    35.6    461    52.3    52.2
25    Eli Manning, NYG    2.3    30.2    2.0    2.4    54.8    684    51.2    51.6
26    Alex Smith, WSH    4.6    17.8    5.5    2.9    35.0    422    53.8    49.4
27    Derek Carr, OAK    -1.2    27.3    2.5    0.2    50.8    669    49.3    49.0
28    Sam Darnold, NYJ    -3.0    23.5    3.3    -1.1    36.6    510    47.9    48.4
29    Case Keenum, DEN    -4.0    26.9    4.2    3.5    50.6    685    47.9    46.9
30    Blake Bortles, JAX    -8.6    9.3    11.6    -1.6    30.5    515    44.1    45.8
31    Lamar Jackson, BAL    -1.2    6.6    13.8    0.4    27.7    338    48.7    45.1
32    Ryan Tannehill, MIA    -18.0    -6.3    3.6    0.8    13.4    363    33.1    35.4
33    Josh Rosen, ARI    -35.3    -13.6    3.3    1.2    7.9    491    26.6    25.9

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2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

As I showed above, Cousins had 2 top 5 seasons in my league (one in 2016 according to Fantasy Pros)

According to Fantasy Pros, Alex Smith was QB4 in 2017. 2015 Bortles and Palmer were QB4 and QB5. 

Joe Flacco has won a superbowl. So has Foles. 

I dont see it so ridiculous that Rosen could have a top 5 season, and/or could win a SB. Worse QBs than him (IMO) have done it. 

If anything this history shows how worthless the QB position is in 1QB leagues

I'll agree that anything can happen. We can always disregard bad years and say, "well, other people have done it so this guy can too."

My point is that Rosen actually didn't show one thing that gave me hope that he can improve and be a top 5 QB. The only way we can say he may be really good is to make the "other people have done it so he can too" leap. Which we can do about any player at any time.

Edited by kutta

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39 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Good point, I guess I didnt really look at the scheme. 

However in at least one of my fantasy leagues: in 2016 and 2017, Cousins last two years with Washington he was QB5 both seasons

Now, scoring in that league is a little goofy... no penalties for INTs, so I am not sure where Cousins finished in other leagues, but he was a top 5 talent under Jay Gruden...

 

Yea I think irrespective of particular scoring system, Cousins had several years where he was very viable.  It might be too much to hope for that with Rosen on the team as currently constructed.  Then again Gruden may be gone after this season either way.  As a dynasty owner I just hope he lands some place where he's wanted and the coaching staff/front office is willing to build around him and let him take his lumps.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

Right now, sure, they have no real WR talent, their OL was injured most of last season, and their RB situation is inconclusive. 

What if the grab NKeal Harry round 2? Assuming they give up their 1st. 

I could see the future being much brighter for him long term than you make it out to be. I agree, it's not the best place of all the rumored destinations, but it's not a wasteland either... depending on the draft.

Skins aren't giving up their fist. Already reported it would be their 2nd and a future mid round pick. So if anything Skins will hopefully draft a WR in the 1st, or at worst, 3rd round pick. I would be disappointed if they don't come away with at least 2 WRs when this draft is over. I am actually confident in Quinn in the slot, but Doctson and Richardson are depth not starters IMO. 

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2 hours ago, kutta said:

I'll agree that anything can happen. We can alwasy disregard bad years and say, "well, other people have done it so this guy can too."

My point is that Rosen actually didn't show one thing that gave me hope that he can improve and be a top 5 QB. The only way we can say he may be really good is to make the "other people have done it so he can too" leap. Which we can do about any player at any time.

i saw some stat about the Cardinals o-line awhile back. it was something like "opposing defenses in the backfield rate" and that for AZ it was worst in the league over recent years. this kind of stat - and i wish i could remember it - was not just about Rosen getting sacked a ton. it was about sustain blocks for run blocking and pass pro. Rosen may or may not be "top 5" in time but no one would look ready for the NFL under those circumstances. David Johnson has one single 100+ yard rushing game last year for cryin out loud. he had Fitz as the only reliable passing target. nevermind they ditched their OC midseason and turned it over to novice OC Byron Leftwich. this was a travesty of a team which is why they fired their head coach after one season. it was a disaster. who else can you say would be credible at the position under those circumstances?

my point is that you're not going to see much out of Rosen like that. you're better off looking at the college tape to see his potential than at the rookie tape. if you weren't a fan of his college tape then last season won't change your mind either.

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19 minutes ago, saintfool said:

i saw some stat about the Cardinals o-line awhile back. it was something like "opposing defenses in the backfield rate" and that for AZ it was worst in the league over recent years. this kind of stat - and i wish i could remember it - was not just about Rosen getting sacked a ton. it was about sustain blocks for run blocking and pass pro. Rosen may or may not be "top 5" in time but no one would look ready for the NFL under those circumstances. David Johnson has one single 100+ yard rushing game last year for cryin out loud. he had Fitz as the only reliable passing target. nevermind they ditched their OC midseason and turned it over to novice OC Byron Leftwich. this was a travesty of a team which is why they fired their head coach after one season. it was a disaster. who else can you say would be credible at the position under those circumstances?

my point is that you're not going to see much out of Rosen like that. you're better off looking at the college tape to see his potential than at the rookie tape. if you weren't a fan of his college tape then last season won't change your mind either.

Again, I agree last year was really bad for the Cards. And while the coaching was horrible, maybe some of the horribleness of this offense was due to the QB too.

He had a lot of weaknesses coming out of college - arm strength, decision making, and leadership questions being the big three, IMO. He did nothing last year to show he was past some of these concerns. I'm just not sure why people are making the leap that he has.

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11 minutes ago, kutta said:

Again, I agree last year was really bad for the Cards. And while the coaching was horrible, maybe some of the horribleness of this offense was due to the QB too.

He had a lot of weaknesses coming out of college - arm strength, decision making, and leadership questions being the big three, IMO. He did nothing last year to show he was past some of these concerns. I'm just not sure why people are making the leap that he has.

i'll put you in the camp that didn't like him at UCLA then? my point, put, is that you're not going to see *anything* - improvement or otherwise - under the catastrophic circumstances he played under last year. if the opposing defense is in the backfield on most plays before you complete the snap then what can anyone expect a play to be other than utter trash? i get the fact that he looked terrible but at the end of the day, there was a reason he looked terrible. change that somehow and you'll get a more accurate reading of his ability.

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3 minutes ago, saintfool said:

i'll put you in the camp that didn't like him at UCLA then? my point, put, is that you're not going to see *anything* - improvement or otherwise - under the catastrophic circumstances he played under last year. if the opposing defense is in the backfield on most plays before you complete the snap then what can anyone expect a play to be other than utter trash? i get the fact that he looked terrible but at the end of the day, there was a reason he looked terrible. change that somehow and you'll get a more accurate reading of his ability.

I get it. I don't know how else to express my thoughts on him.

We'll just agree to disagree on him. Time will tell.

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