Disagree that there are any other QBs who could force a trade of an obvious heir-apparent like that. Can't think of another situation roughly similar where the heir apparent got traded against the will of the coach.You probably could find this on any NFL team, but it's the Pats, so it's blown out of proportion.
Disagree that there are any other QBs who could force a trade of an obvious heir-apparent like that. Can't think of another situation roughly similar where the heir apparent got traded against the will of the coach.You probably could find this on any NFL team, but it's the Pats, so it's blown out of proportion.
If you include the caveat of 40yo QB, I think you're right.Disagree that there are any other QBs who could force a trade of an obvious heir-apparent like that. Can't think of another situation roughly similar where the heir apparent got traded against the will of the coach.
So we know 100% that's what happened? Again, it's the hated Pats so of course people want to picture Brady crying, stomping his feet and whining to Kraft to get his way.Disagree that there are any other QBs who could force a trade of an obvious heir-apparent like that. Can't think of another situation roughly similar where the heir apparent got traded against the will of the coach.
As discussed in the many Jimmy G threads, what else were the Pats going to do? Brady won the SB last year and is going to be MVP this year. They realistically could not have afforded to pay both guys and would have had to franchise Garoppolo. No way were they shelling out $45 million on two players at the same spot. All they could do was trade JG.Disagree that there are any other QBs who could force a trade of an obvious heir-apparent like that. Can't think of another situation roughly similar where the heir apparent got traded against the will of the coach.
Exactly. Of course this was a Kraft decision, and many other teams have had to make this decision. This is so weird because Brady is old but playing well and Jimmy G looked so good at the end of the season.As discussed in the many Jimmy G threads, what else were the Pats going to do? Brady won the SB last year and is going to be MVP this year. They realistically could not have afforded to pay both guys and would have had to franchise Garoppolo. No way were they shelling out $45 million on two players at the same spot. All they could do was trade JG.
But if Kraft knew he was sticking with Brady, didn't they have to trade Jimmy to at least get something for him? This all comes down to NE sticking with Brady and their probably not being a question of it.Or wait until the end of the year and trade Brady. The Patriots had a dynasty in place that could have stretched for 25+ years -- unprecedented in the NFL, if not all of sports.
The author of the story was just on ESPN, and said Brady didn't force the trade and he didn't report that.Disagree that there are any other QBs who could force a trade of an obvious heir-apparent like that. Can't think of another situation roughly similar where the heir apparent got traded against the will of the coach.
People are funny. For several years there have been threads here that Jimmy G was a JAG and a future bust. He had a couple decent outings last year. Then they traded him this year.Or wait until the end of the year and trade Brady. The Patriots had a dynasty in place that could have stretched for 25+ years -- unprecedented in the NFL, if not all of sports.
I think the one thing that gives it credence is the way Garoppolo played in SF.This reporter has had an axe to grind with New England and has written other unflattering articles in the past citing unnamed sources and whispers in the wind.
Most of what he discussed this go round has been discussed by local reporters for weeks and months.
However, his hot take that the band will break up after this the final tour is new and IMO his take alone.
I think he does a lot of connecting of dots and extrapolation to reach his conclusions. For example, a 103 year old man had a class of water just before he died. Therefore he must have drowned.
As others have said, many successfully teams have had cases of butting heads. In this case, it’s somehow notable because people are sick of the Patriots and want them to go away.
The real meat in the piece, which as a Pats fan I 100% believe to be true, is the stuff about Guerrero and the friction/hostility between him and the Pats medical staff and the players getting caught in the middle. That stuff has been hinted at for a while and Brady's TB12 greasy snake-oil farm that leaches onto the Patriots organization is a significant problem for the team.
A lot of the rest of this reads like fan fiction. Garrapolo and Brady are pretty tight - They share an agent and are part of Brady's Kentucky Derby posse. Fact is that the Pats couldn't keep both QBs beyond this season and Belichick ended up getting the best value that he could for Jimmy G at a time that he had the least amount of leverage.
If Kraft in any way gave Bill an order with regards to player personnel and how to handle the Brady/Jimmy situation then I will not be shocked if he walks after this year. Will be surprised if he doesn't actually.BB probably is peeved they couldn’t keep Garrapolo. But I don’t see that translate to he’s done and catching the first flight out of town.
This was the tone he had when I saw him on ESPN. Basically the article started because he figured something HAD to be wrong in the Pats organization because Jimmy got traded on the last day of the trade deadline.Wickersham was just interviewed on Boston radio. Things that caught my attention . . .
The people he spoke with were used for background and were not interviewed to be main sources or go on the record. He said no one provided any specifics but the universal theme was that there was a sense of unease and and air of tension all season long.
He also said he tied in his conclusions with articles written by other reporters. Although he didn't come out and say it, it sounded like he had made up his mind what he thought was a plausible situation developing and went in asking people to confirm his suspicions. He did say that none of the people gave him any specific examples and they were all describing how they felt and how the mood was.
He did say that across the board the people he interviewed said this may have been BB's best year coaching, as BB has done an exceptional job diffusing the situation and keeping things calm and well under control. The presumption was that egos and personalities came to the forefront this season, more than in season's past, and BB did a great job keeping people focused and on point and to limit any distractions.
Wickersham mostly ducked the question on whether he spoke with BB, TB, or Senior Kraft. All he offered was that he send the team a summary of the article asking for comment and the team essentially said his reporting was riddled with inaccuracies and debunked some things as entirely inaccurate.
Part of why BB is so miffed is he thought he had set the team up for long term success once he left by bringing in JG. One of the things that BB wants to do is show that he alwasys did have the best interest in the team in mind and that they could sustain their success once he was gone. Now he has to worry about finding a successor to Brady and hope the team will continue to win once BB is gone.
I still don't get where Wickersham was able to deduce that BB will be gone after this season. There seems to be nothing leading to that conclusion except for the reporter's speculation. It was clear everyone internal to the Patriots still thought the world of BB.
I have been thinking this as well -- Garropolo's play down the stretch has drastically altered evaluation of the trade.People are funny. For several years there have been threads here that Jimmy G was a JAG and a future bust. He had a couple decent outings last year. Then they traded him this year.
Suddenly the entire universe knew that JG is the next Tom Montana. And now they should have gotten 8 first round picks for him. The Pats were supposed to trade last year’s SB MVP and this year’s MVP? Get out of town.
It’s no secret the Pats wanted to keep Jimmy G, but there wasn’t a way to do it. Somehow now the universe is imploding?
BB probably is peeved they couldn’t keep Garrapolo. But I don’t see that translate to he’s done and catching the first flight out of town.
If the Patriots knew that already, why trade Brissett? He isn't great but by trading both backups they left themselves exposed this year and got a little lucky Hoyer was cut. Was Phillip Dorsett worth leaving them exposed if they expected to deal Jimmy G before the deadline? Was Belichik that down on him?As discussed in the many Jimmy G threads, what else were the Pats going to do? Brady won the SB last year and is going to be MVP this year. They realistically could not have afforded to pay both guys and would have had to franchise Garoppolo. No way were they shelling out $45 million on two players at the same spot. All they could do was trade JG.
Belichick's soul + Brady's soul = at least a few more years. Unless the Devil wrote a front loaded contract that expires in a few more weeks.Every empire crumbles (see the bible). Usually about every 200 years. I don't think Brady and Belichick can live that long however.
I believe Brady and Belichick went to the same crossroads in Mississipi that Robert Johnson went to when he sold his soul to the devil in order to play the guitar so well.Belichick's soul + Brady's soul = at least a few more years. Unless the Devil wrote a front loaded contract that expires in a few more weeks.
Yeah the Brissett trade doesn't seem to fit with the timeline of decision making. Maybe Belichick expected to see decline enough in Brady this season to justify signing Jimmy G and when that wasn't the case, changed plans. At the time of the Brissett trade, I believe that Pats were thin at WR. But to your point, that is not the way you would go about adding depth at that position if you were planning all long to part ways from Jimmy.If the Patriots knew that already, why trade Brissett? He isn't great but by trading both backups they left themselves exposed this year and got a little lucky Hoyer was cut. Was Phillip Dorsett worth leaving them exposed if they expected to deal Jimmy G before the deadline? Was Belichik that down on him?
Yeah, the rumor for the past few years is that JMcD was reluctant to leave for another HC position because he was in no rush to take another job when he could stay as BB's heir apparent. So if he does end up leaving this year, that could mean he's sick of waiting around for BB to retire. Or it could just mean that he's ready to be a HC now and likes one of the opportunities that's available.McDaniels & Patricia both interviewing for HC positions is also odd, because what is the succession plan for post-Belichick? Wouldn't it involve one of these guys, especially McDaniels?
The Pats wanted to keep JG. They had discussions with him and his agent on how to keep him around. However, the talks were focused on keeping JG as the backup and him taking high end back up money with no guarantees when he could start. JG wanted to play and wanted starter money. A deal could not be reached. As discussed already, no way is a tem going to franchise a guy and not play him.If the Patriots knew that already, why trade Brissett? He isn't great but by trading both backups they left themselves exposed this year and got a little lucky Hoyer was cut. Was Phillip Dorsett worth leaving them exposed if they expected to deal Jimmy G before the deadline? Was Belichik that down on him?
The Devil added a fifth year team option. He can also move on from them after next year with a minimal amount of dead money (and for the record, I'm talking literal dead money.)Belichick's soul + Brady's soul = at least a few more years. Unless the Devil wrote a front loaded contract that expires in a few more weeks.
The Devil added a fifth year team option. He can also move on from them after next year with a minimal amount of dead money (and for the record, I'm talking literal dead money.)
Of course, we all know how this is going to end: Pats playing one last game against a team of demons (well, 10 demons plus Vontaze Burfict) with their souls on the line, and then pulling a Charlie Daniels and winning a golden football.
Clearly, though, if the Pats had to do it over again, they would have traded Jimmy G before the draft last year, when they most likely could have gotten more than a two. So I guess the question is, what changed their minds? One theory I've heard is that they wanted to see how Brady looked in his age 40 season; once it became clear that he wasn't pulling a Peyton, they felt comfortable moving Jimmy. But I suspect we'll never know the real answer.The Pats wanted to keep JG. They had discussions with him and his agent on how to keep him around. However, the talks were focused on keeping JG as the backup and him taking high end back up money with no guarantees when he could start. JG wanted to play and wanted starter money. A deal could not be reached. As discussed already, no way is a tem going to franchise a guy and not play him.
From what I have heard, Kraft and BB had a discussion at some point and Kraft said Brady is untouchable. He meant too much to the franchise and he was not to be cut or traded. BB reasoned that JG offered 10 years of being a top starter vs. a couple years of maybe TB12. I don't think BB was pushing to start Garoppolo, but he definitely wanted to keep JG. Kraft could not afford to pay $45 million to carry two QB's. I do not think BB is convinced that TB12 can play as long as Brady thinks at the level we are accustomed to.
They traded Brissett because they would have lost him anyway. They did not have space for him on their 53 man roster and would have hoped to get him on their practice squad. But another team would have signed him, so they dealt him for something rather than lose him for nothing. The sense that I got was that Brissett didn't make many strides in a year plus and that they viewed him as nothing more than a back up (not an heir apparent).
By the time the trading deadline came, they figured out that they couldn't keep Garoppolo. So they traded him to SF for a 2nd round pick and Hoyer (who had been in NE before and knew the system). It made more sense to not trade for Hoyer and his bigger contract, so they convinced SF to release him instead so they could sign him to a cheaper contract. Given that he was not subject to waivers, no one else was going to sign him. So that's essentially how the JG trade went down.
Clearly Hoyer is not the long term solution, but IMO he is a decent option if Brady suffered a short term injury. I think he offers much more on a short term (game or two) basis than Brissett would in NE.
The overriding issue In JG leaving is now they need to start over with someone else. They undoubtedly will have to take someone early in the draft this year to grow and develop. The Pats certainly don't have the wiggle room they had with JG on the sidelines, and if they have to rely on Hoyer for a long stretch that probably will be an issue.
As far as 2018 goes, if BB sticks around, the Pats should again be locked and loaded to make another run at it. Depending upon who they opt to keep, their offense could be the best they ever had (Edelman, Cooks, Hogan, Mitchell, Britt, Amendola at WR. Gronk and Bennett at TE. Lewis, Burkhead, White at RB). Add in Hightower, Cannon, and better health to linemen on both sides of the ball and they would start the year again as a favorite to win the SB.
Add everything up, and the quibbles this year have been what to do with 2 QB options, how to deal with a non-team trainer, getting people to play nice with each other, and dealing with some injuries. Sounds to me like nice problems to have and issues a 13-3 team has to deal with. Most teams would love to have only those things for issues.
The real answer, if you believe the beat reporters, is that the Pats wanted to keep JG and NE thought they could sign him to an extension. Again if we choose to believe the reporters, the Pats were never offered more than a 2nd rounder and change for JG before the draft (said to be either a 4th rounder or a 5th and a 6th). They weren't really looking to trade him then and half a year of JG was great TB12 insurance. Then they hit an impasse and found they didn't have a way to keep him and they traded him now rather than get a compensatory pick for him two drafts from now.Clearly, though, if the Pats had to do it over again, they would have traded Jimmy G before the draft last year, when they most likely could have gotten more than a two. So I guess the question is, what changed their minds? One theory I've heard is that they wanted to see how Brady looked in his age 40 season; once it became clear that he wasn't pulling a Peyton, they felt comfortable moving Jimmy. But I suspect we'll never know the real answer.
Not a Pats homer, but your trolling here. What were they supposed to do? Push out a HOF QB still playing at a high level or pay a back-up starting QB money? They had no choice. Your just being bitter.I love the Patriots homers in here. It's so fun that you traded away your dynast QB and he just shredded Jacksonville with the 49ers and you've got a 40 year-old at QB.
Good work, fellas.
I know. The Patriots must be so bummed to be stuck with the league MVP, the top seed in the AFC, home field advantage, and being the favorite to win the Super Bowl again. How will they cope? Maybe they need grief therapy.I love the Patriots homers in here. It's so fun that you traded away your dynast QB and he just shredded Jacksonville with the 49ers and you've got a 40 year-old at QB.
Good work, fellas.
Of course I'm trolling. I hate this team with the fury of a thousand suns. I love this story, and Garappolo may have become my favorite quarterback in the league.Not a Pats homer, but your trolling here. What were they supposed to do? Push out a HOF QB still playing at a high level or pay a back-up starting QB money? They had no choice. Your just being bitter.
The league MVP? They have Matt Ryan? Guess your dynasty isn't dead yet...I know. The Patriots must be so bummed to be stuck with the league MVP, the top seed in the AFC, home field advantage, and being the favorite to win the Super Bowl again. How will they cope? Maybe they need grief therapy.