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Your Thought? Understanding Trump Support - Cracked Magazine (of course) Shows The Way (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

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I'm trying to be more empathetic.

Empathy is just trying to understand the "other" side. Or "other" people. For me, it feels like one of the things I / We have lost over the years where everything is about Me. I think lots of people feel this way.  

Today, when most of the "other" side stuff is related to politics, I think understanding Pro Trump support is worthwhile. I posted this in the "where do Pro / Anti Trump supporters fall on the political scale" thread but it feels important enough to have it's own thread.

Assuming, that is, people want to understand and not just mock.

It probably makes sense, that Cracked magazine of all places, I thought wrote one of the best articles during the campaign and nailed some of the root causes for how Trump resonated with his "base". 

I know quite a few of the kinds of folks described in the magazine and I think the writer's spot on. It's got a lot of NSFW language and I know that's hypocritical of me but I thought the bigger point was important.

The article isn't very long (It's Cracked.com) and it's worth reading the whole thing if you'd like some understanding of the "other" side. The writer has a good understanding of both sides. I believe I do as well. And it's been frustrating to me feeling like neither side understands the other. Or worse, assumes the worst of the other side as they mock / jab / troll. 

I think the writer gets it. But I'd like to hear your thoughts. For the Pro Trump folks, does this resonate? For the Anti Trump folks, can you see what he's saying? 

Would love some discussion, especially from the Pro Trump folks and please let's keep it as cool as possible. Thanks.

 
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To me, at this point, a year out --the more interesting question is for those who likely know (now) he is not fit as POTUS (and as is the case here didnt even vote for him) but feel the need to protect him with every development?  The latest being the book ---

But yeah, sorry Joe -read that article when it came out out and get it --

 
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I get the rationale behind "Trump country" thing. What I dont get is the fact that it is called "Trump country" considering Donald Trump personifies every damn thing that rural poor folks should be rallying against. Just don't know how they can't see through all his bull#### and realize that a real estate billionaire who has stepped on and screwed over so many people on his way to the top doesn't really give a #### about them. 

 
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#6 is EXACTLY why our Founding Fathers came up with the Electoral System.  They knew that the majority of the population would flock to the cities.  It has been that way since forever when peasants sent their goods to the city for consumption and flocked there in times of war and famine.  The city was where one could expect to live off of others and be protected.  In some cases...the city shut their gates to ensure that the upper class didn't have to also sacrifice when times were bad.  Countries such as Russia  and more recently, the US, have seen what happens when the peasants get fed up with the actions of those "in charge".  The 2016 election could easily be compared to a peasant uprising. 

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Good article, but it loses me at the end, where Trump is compared to the likable renegade hero we root for that breaks all the rules and shows up all those fancy elites.  
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Could it be that you may be one of those "fancy elites"...or at least share their mindset.  I seriously doubt that ANY of those "fancy elites" saw the man who defeated them as a "likable renegade"?

 
Look, people can keep spinning this in different ways, but exit polling shows that Trump voters were motivated by racial resentment: 

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/06/top-democrats-are-wrong-trump-supporters-were-more-motivated-by-racism-than-economic-issues/

Those are the facts. They don’t lie. Personally I wish it were otherwise. The Cracked article doesn’t do a bad job of demonstrating the more or less traditional conservative vs liberal dichotomy in which rural prefers conservatism and urban prefers liberalism, but that’s NOT what happened in THIS election. THIS election was about race, and those who voted for Trump tended to be white people tired of Obama, political correctness, and fearful of the growing number of Latinos and non-Europeans that will eventually become the majority. 

 
Opie said:
#6 is EXACTLY why our Founding Fathers came up with the Electoral System.  They knew that the majority of the population would flock to the cities.  It has been that way since forever when peasants sent their goods to the city for consumption and flocked to the cities in times of war and famine.  The city was where one could expect to live off of others and in some cases...the city shut their gates to ensure that the upper class didn't have to sacrifice.  Countries, Russia  and more recently, the US, have seen what happens when the peasants get fed up with the actions of those "in charge".  The 2016 election was no more than a peasant uprising. 
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The electoral college makes Philadelphia and Miami incredibly important while Kentucky and Oklahoma are essentially irrelevant. 

 
JIslander said:
To me, at this point, a year out --the more interesting question is for those who likely know (now) he is not fit as POTUS (and as is the case here didnt even vote for him) but feel the need to protect him with every development?  The latest being the book ---
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Agree. I get why people voted for him, especially in the face of who the other candidate was. I get the “what’s there to lose” angle there. I don’t get continuing to defend him.

I also don’t think the article explains any of the pro trump behavior here.  

I am all for people who may not be politically correct or blunt or strong in the face of adversaries. But that also does not describe Trump. He is the villain in those movies who duped the unsuspecting desperate people looking for anything or anyone to help them for his own personal gain.

This is one reason why the midterm elections will be so interesting. If the Dems get control back in the senate I could still see trump signing whatever bills are put in front of him because I don’t think he has a personal idealology other than getting rich and building his ego, which getting “wins” no matter what political side he helps will feed.

 
Opie said:
Could it be that you may be one of those "fancy elites"...or at least share their mindset.  I seriously doubt that ANY of those "fancy elites" saw the man who defeated them as a "likable renegade"?
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Yeah, I've lived in and around urban areas my whole life, I recognize this article isn't describing me.  But I'm also familiar enough with the type of fictional stories referenced in the article to recognize that Trump is nothing like the renegade heroes described in the article.  When there's a character like that in a movie, they always give him some attributes that make you like him in spite of the fact that he's kind of a jerk to people.  Maybe he's funny, or he loves his dog, or is a devoted husband, or something.  And when he's obnoxious, he punches up, not down.  He takes aim at big institutions and powerful people, not at the weak and vulnerable.  Also, he's usually good looking.

 
bagger said:
I am all for people who may not be politically correct or blunt or strong in the face of adversaries. But that also does not describe Trump. He is the villain in those movies who duped the unsuspecting desperate people looking for anything or anyone to help them for his own personal gain.
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Yeah bagger said it better than me.

 
timschochet said:
Look, people can keep spinning this in different ways, but exit polling shows that Trump voters were motivated by racial resentment: 

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/06/top-democrats-are-wrong-trump-supporters-were-more-motivated-by-racism-than-economic-issues/

Those are the facts. They don’t lie. Personally I wish it were otherwise. The Cracked article doesn’t do a bad job of demonstrating the more or less traditional conservative vs liberal dichotomy in which rural prefers conservatism and urban prefers liberalism, but that’s NOT what happened in THIS election. THIS election was about race, and those who voted for Trump tended to be white people tired of Obama, political correctness, and fearful of the growing number of Latinos and non-Europeans that will eventually become the majority. 
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Yup.

The exit polls showed that the people who voted for Trump were mostly the same people who voted for a boring son of a Senator and former governor of Massachusetts four years earlier.  The differences were around the margins, a percentage point here or there in the right combination of states.  Maybe the article captures what drove those marginal voters, but that’s about it.

 
timschochet said:
Look, people can keep spinning this in different ways, but exit polling shows that Trump voters were motivated by racial resentment: 

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/06/top-democrats-are-wrong-trump-supporters-were-more-motivated-by-racism-than-economic-issues/

Those are the facts. They don’t lie. Personally I wish it were otherwise. The Cracked article doesn’t do a bad job of demonstrating the more or less traditional conservative vs liberal dichotomy in which rural prefers conservatism and urban prefers liberalism, but that’s NOT what happened in THIS election. THIS election was about race, and those who voted for Trump tended to be white people tired of Obama, political correctness, and fearful of the growing number of Latinos and non-Europeans that will eventually become the majority. 
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Oh puleeeeze.  So...all of those white voters who helped put Obama into the White House....twice... became racists over the course of his two terms and decided to vote for a white guy.  Of course, Trump being the ONLY white guy in the race (primaries and general elections)...was the way to go.

 
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Opie said:
Oh puleeeeze.  So...all of those white voters who helped put Obama into the White House....twice... became racists over the course of his two terms and decided to vote for a white guy.  Of course, Trump being the ONLY white guy in the race...was the way to go.
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No.  More likely THOSE white folks who voted for Obama stayed home for Hillary, whilst DJT got the (boost in) white racial resentment vote.

 
JIslander said:
No.  More likely THOSE white folks who voted for Obama stayed home for Hillary, whilst DJT got the (boost in) white racial resentment vote.
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If it helps you sleep at night...fine.

Don't forget the women whose husbands MADE them vote for Trump!

OH....and the Russians....don't forget them either!  They did more with $100,000 in Facebook advertising that HRC couldn't do with almost a billion dollars!

 
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Opie said:
If it helps you sleep at night...fine.

Don't forget the women whose husbands MADE them vote for Trump!
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Why are you so opposed at looking at motivating factors for what tipped the scales in the election? Nobody is saying all people who voted for trump are racist, or you are, just that there was a statistically significant contingent who did and given how close some of the states were that is what swung the election.

You see that in all sorts of scenarios. Alabama and Roy Moore...many Republicans were less inclined to vote given he was a pedophile and the Dems were motivated so they squeaked it out.  We may see that in the midterms as well. 

 
timschochet said:
Look, people can keep spinning this in different ways, but exit polling shows that Trump voters were motivated by racial resentment: 

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/06/top-democrats-are-wrong-trump-supporters-were-more-motivated-by-racism-than-economic-issues/

Those are the facts. They don’t lie. Personally I wish it were otherwise. The Cracked article doesn’t do a bad job of demonstrating the more or less traditional conservative vs liberal dichotomy in which rural prefers conservatism and urban prefers liberalism, but that’s NOT what happened in THIS election. THIS election was about race, and those who voted for Trump tended to be white people tired of Obama, political correctness, and fearful of the growing number of Latinos and non-Europeans that will eventually become the majority. 
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Thanks. I know the "Duh, Racists" is the easy and comfortable explanation for supporters, although it usually has the "wish it wasn't" disclaimer. But I think Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are right as quoted in The Intercept article. 

Polls are useful but in my experience, I think the Cracked article gets it right.

The rural folk with the Trump signs in their yards say their way of life is dying, and you smirk and say what they really mean is that blacks and gays are finally getting equal rights and they hate it. But I'm telling you, they say their way of life is dying because their way of life is dying. It's not their imagination. No movie about the future portrays it as being full of traditional families, hunters, and coal mines. Well, except for Hunger Games, and that was depicted as an apocalypse.
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I know a lot of these folks. And I think this is more accurate than just an easy dismissal labeling them as racists. 

 
Anyhow, the good news is that if the Virginia and Alabama results were any indication, a lot of rural conservatives are going to vote for Democrats in 2018. Only Donald Trump could have brought this about.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I know the "Duh, Racists" is the easy and comfortable explanation for supporters, although it usually has the "wish it wasn't" disclaimer. But I think Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are right as quoted in The Intercept article. 

Polls are useful but in my experience, I think the Cracked article gets it right.

I know a lot of these folks. And I think this is more accurate than just an easy dismissal labeling them as racists. 
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I don't, and never have, labeled them as racists. I wrote that in 2017 many of them voted for Trump out of racial resentment. That's a big distinction. But that's not my theory, or anyone's theory; that's exit polling. Bernie and Warren are wrong; but they're politicians so they don't want to alienate anybody.

 
bagger said:
Why are you so opposed at looking at motivating factors for what tipped the scales in the election? Nobody is saying all people who voted for trump are racist, or you are, just that there was a statistically significant contingent who did and given how close some of the states were that is what swung the election.

You see that in all sorts of scenarios. Alabama and Roy Moore...many Republicans were less inclined to vote given he was a pedophile and the Dems were motivated so they squeaked it out.  We may see that in the midterms as well. 
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For sure. Race obviously plays a part in all this. It always does. 

I think my take on it though is that Racism doesn't feel like the over riding answer that many feel it is. 

And of course, I may be wrong. That's why I thought it might be good to discuss. To hear what other people think on the topic. 

 
I still say the number one reason that Trump got elected was our devotion to the 2-party system.  He was on OUR TEAM so we had to vote for him is how a lot of people felt.  Hillary and the DNC is THEM, Trump was US.  And that's why even with how horrible we now concretely know he is there will still be a lot of people who vote for him in 2020.  And I said it before and I'll say it again - if you could magically find a Democrat that is the equal of Trump and he ran as the DNC pick in 2020 I guarantee there would be a large number of voters who would vote for him because he's a 'D' and not a 'R'.  I know this is fantasy talk here but we all know that Trump was a Democrat at one time and if we could go back in time and he somehow changed some of his stances that made him palatable enough to run as a D and he somehow won I know for a fact that the people that support him today would think he was the worst President ever and a horrible person.  Many, many, many people have chosen sides and they aren't switching teams.  Thankfully, IMO, that number is small enough on both sides that it can be overcome and I feel pretty confident he won't get re-elected.

 
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timschochet said:
I don't, and never have, labeled them as racists. I wrote that in 2017 many of them voted for Trump out of racial resentment. That's a big distinction. But that's not my theory, or anyone's theory; that's exit polling. Bernie and Warren are wrong; but they're politicians so they don't want to alienate anybody.
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That may make you feel better but I believe the vast majority of people don't see much distinction between Racist and one who harbors Racial Resentment. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I know the "Duh, Racists" is the easy and comfortable explanation for supporters, although it usually has the "wish it wasn't" disclaimer. But I think Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are right as quoted in The Intercept article. 

Polls are useful but in my experience, I think the Cracked article gets it right.

I know a lot of these folks. And I think this is more accurate than just an easy dismissal labeling them as racists. 
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I have no doubt that what you say is true. And I agree rural America is dying which is sad and should be a huge priority for any president to address. But I also think having a black President really bothered a lot of people in this country and trump is what came out of the other end of the sausage maker as a result. Now that probably does not describe the people you know.

What I think you refer to and what tim refers to are two wholly different subsets of voters or some Venn diagram with a small shared belief system between the two.

And certainly rolling out Hillary who was very dismissive of the rural communities compounded the situation. Trump being elected is like any major disaster. There is not one huge thing that causes it but a perfect storm of a lot of small things that end up contributing.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
That may make you feel better but I believe the vast majority of people don't see much distinction between Racist and one who harbors Racial Resentment. 
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Perhaps not. I would add that the main difference between them is that racial resentment tends to be a temporary, emotional attitude that most people have from time to time (I don't exclude myself) , while racism is more or less permanent. But even that point might not convince people; if so I can't help that. I know that I'm comfortable making it.

 
Just go down the list of horrible elected officials on both sides - they get elected because people vote for the party and not for the person more times than not.  It's not all people but it's enough.  Many don't even put thought in to their vote - there's a reason we have the ability to select ALL REPUBLICANS or ALL DEMOCRATS.

 
Joe Bryant said:
For sure. Race obviously plays a part in all this. It always does. 

I think my take on it though is that Racism doesn't feel like the over riding answer that many feel it is. 

And of course, I may be wrong. That's why I thought it might be good to discuss. To hear what other people think on the topic. 
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I don’t think there was a singular over riding thing, but seems like the straw that broke the camel’s back.

There was a visceral hatred from the right for Obama which could only be attributed to racism given he was actually a fairly moderate President if you objectively look at his policies. Electing trump was the outlet for many for that.

 
timschochet said:
I think a lot of sexism played into that too. A lot of the main reasons that Hillary was disliked (pushy, arrogant) would have been ignored or even praised had she been a man.
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Sometimes women can just be ####ty people without it being a sexist thing.

Hillary falls into that camp.

 
bagger said:
I have no doubt that what you say is true. And I agree rural America is dying which is sad and should be a huge priority for any president to address. But I also think having a black President really bothered a lot of people in this country and trump is what came out of the other end of the sausage maker as a result. Now that probably does not describe the people you know.

What I think you refer to and what tim refers to are two wholly different sunsets of voters or some Venneri diagram with a small shared belief system between the two.

And certainly rolling out Hillary who was very dismissive of the rural communities compounded the situation. Trump being elected is like any major disaster. There is not one huge thing that causes it but a perfect storm of a lot of small things that end up contributing.
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I think that's right @bagger   It's partly why I think Joe Biden would connect so well. He has the working class rural Pennsylvania connection that I'd think would connect with the same people the Cracked article talks about. He does of course have the "Insider" thing as being part of the establishment (and maybe the link to President Obama is too much for some. I don't know.  Biden just strikes me as the guy who could connect with the rural folk. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I think that's right @bagger   It's partly why I think Joe Biden would connect so well. He has the working class rural Pennsylvania connection that I'd think would connect with the same people the Cracked article talks about. He does of course have the "Insider" thing as being part of the establishment (and maybe the link to President Obama is too much for some. I don't know.  Biden just strikes me as the guy who could connect with the rural folk. 
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I am sure the DNC is kicking themselves for not running Biden, who is by far a better candidate than Hillary. But it was coronated as Hillary’s time so they ran her out unopposed. I firmly believe if Biden ran he would be president now for the exact reasons you state.

 
dawgtrails said:
Bernie Sanders, Martin O'Malley, Jim Webb, Lincoln Chafee, and Lawrence Lessig take offense to this
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Bernie was not trotted out by the DNC and was viewed as a huge nuisance.

The DNC put their chips behind one candidate from day 1 which was a mistake. This is why Biden did not run, to avoid a messy primary where there may be a huge schism as a result.

 
bagger said:
There was a visceral hatred from the right for Obama which could only be attributed to racism given he was actually a fairly moderate President if you objectively look at his policies.
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A lot of the people you describe get their news from Fox or Breitbart or whatever Uncle Frank posts on Facebook.  It's very difficult to look at Obama's policies objectively if those are your source of information.  So I guess I don't agree that the visceral hatred can "only" be attributed to racism.  Nancy Pelosi is white and she's a boogeyman for the right too.

 
bagger said:
I have no doubt that what you say is true. And I agree rural America is dying which is sad and should be a huge priority for any president to address. But I also think having a black President really bothered a lot of people in this country and trump is what came out of the other end of the sausage maker as a result. Now that probably does not describe the people you know.

What I think you refer to and what tim refers to are two wholly different sunsets of voters or some Venneri diagram with a small shared belief system between the two.

And certainly rolling out Hillary who was very dismissive of the rural communities compounded the situation. Trump being elected is like any major disaster. There is not one huge thing that causes it but a perfect storm of a lot of small things that end up contributing.
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Could not agree more.  I know a lot of Trump voters, and the reasons for their support is incredibly varied.  Just off the top of my head, the doctor my wife works for... He's of Egyptian descent, but a lifelong republican who couldn't support Democrats and the furthering of the nanny state.  He's self made, he thinks everyone has a responsibility to make it on their own, and the government needs to get the hell out of the way.  A close friend who has seen his life turned upside down by the fall of manufacturing, the housing crisis, etc, and saw Hillary as a continuation of the same system that got him where he is.  He's not and idiot, or a racist, but he's a broken man who just wants someone to give him an answer as to why no matter how hard he works, he can't get ahead.  A co-worker who is your typical 2nd amendment die hard who felt the SC spot was more important than anything trump could do in his 4 years.  Another co-worker who is just anti-establishment and was for Bernie until he was out, then switched to Trump, because a disruption was needed, regardless of who it was.  My well educated cousin who is just so pro business and pro tax cuts that Republican is where it starts and ends, regardless of the candidate.  My hyper-religious uncle who abhors abortion so strongly that pro-choice is an immediate disqualifer.  Another co-worker who's wife owns a small business, a Hallmark card shop, so he votes R exclusively, because they are the best shot for a pro-business agenda.

None of these people are racist, at least in any way that I am aware of.  A couple of them were Obama supporters, because he was supposed to be the change they desired as well.  The racists might have supported Trump, but they aren't the sole reason we wound up here.  I truly believe our government, both sides of the aisle, are so out of touch with day to day American's, that frustration is just steadily mounting.  Trump isn't the disease, he's just a symptom.

 
Tim,

I suspect your take on rural voters, particularly rural southern evangelical conservative voters may be more than a bit off, colored by your parochial views*

*My way of saying elitist, leftist, condescending bigotry.  In the hands of others it might mean redneck, inbred, racist.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Tim,

I suspect your take on rural voters, particularly rural southern evangelical conservative voters may be more than a bit off, colored by your parochial views*

*My way of saying elitist, leftist, condescending bigotry.  In the hands of others it might mean redneck, inbred, racist.
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I don’t have any take on rural voters, except: 

1. They tend to vote conservative. 

2. In 2016 many of them voted out of racial resentment, but that includes a lot of urban voters as well. 

3. In 2018 and 2020 many rural voters will vote Democrat, because they, like almost everyone else, realize what a disaster Donald Trump is. 

Those are the whole of my takes. Please don’t accuse me of believing that rural people are racist or permanently filled with racial resentment. I don’t believe that. 

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
A lot of the people you describe get their news from Fox or Breitbart or whatever Uncle Frank posts on Facebook.  It's very difficult to look at Obama's policies objectively if those are your source of information.  So I guess I don't agree that the visceral hatred can "only" be attributed to racism.  Nancy Pelosi is white and she's a boogeyman for the right too.
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Exactly. It's why I so often am leery of the generalizing and dismissive "Duh - Racism" stuff I see so much of. Much of it is condescending and lazy. And completely shut down discussion. Obviously, Racism IS in the mix and it's important to talk about. But a great many situations are just like you describe @fatguyinalittlecoat and more nuanced. 

 
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Born, raised and still live in red country, work in blue. I think we tend to underestimate the resentment felt by many on the left towards the decades of conservative leadership in this country, times when necessary change occurred only with sacrifice and bloodshed. 

It's hard for me to shed that resentment and feel sympathy for the plight of people who resisted an America fair to everyone, regardless of their race or sexual persuasion. But I'll fight for what I think rural America really needs going forward -- a Universal Basic Income that will allow them to live with dignity in beautiful areas of the nation which don't have much available work. 

Your coal plant ain't coming back no matter who is currently in office.

 
Mene said:
Could not agree more.  I know a lot of Trump voters, and the reasons for their support is incredibly varied.  Just off the top of my head, the doctor my wife works for... He's of Egyptian descent, but a lifelong republican who couldn't support Democrats and the furthering of the nanny state.  He's self made, he thinks everyone has a responsibility to make it on their own, and the government needs to get the hell out of the way.  A close friend who has seen his life turned upside down by the fall of manufacturing, the housing crisis, etc, and saw Hillary as a continuation of the same system that got him where he is.  He's not and idiot, or a racist, but he's a broken man who just wants someone to give him an answer as to why no matter how hard he works, he can't get ahead.  A co-worker who is your typical 2nd amendment die hard who felt the SC spot was more important than anything trump could do in his 4 years.  Another co-worker who is just anti-establishment and was for Bernie until he was out, then switched to Trump, because a disruption was needed, regardless of who it was.  My well educated cousin who is just so pro business and pro tax cuts that Republican is where it starts and ends, regardless of the candidate.  My hyper-religious uncle who abhors abortion so strongly that pro-choice is an immediate disqualifer.  Another co-worker who's wife owns a small business, a Hallmark card shop, so he votes R exclusively, because they are the best shot for a pro-business agenda.

None of these people are racist, at least in any way that I am aware of.  A couple of them were Obama supporters, because he was supposed to be the change they desired as well.  The racists might have supported Trump, but they aren't the sole reason we wound up here.  I truly believe our government, both sides of the aisle, are so out of touch with day to day American's, that frustration is just steadily mounting.  Trump isn't the disease, he's just a symptom.
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Stop throwing real examples out there @Mene  ;)

 
roadkill1292 said:
Born, raised and still live in red country, work in blue. I think we tend to underestimate the resentment felt by many on the left towards the decades of conservative leadership in this country, times when necessary change occurred only with sacrifice and bloodshed. 

It's hard for me to shed that resentment and feel sympathy for the plight of people who resisted an America fair to everyone, regardless of their race or sexual persuasion. But I'll fight for what I think rural America really needs going forward -- a Universal Basic Income that will allow them to live with dignity in beautiful areas of the nation which don't have much available work. 





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Agreed @roadkill1292  This topic was more on how to understand the Trump supporters but I agree completely there's lots of understanding to bridge for the Pro Trump folks to understand the other side as well. 

UBI is a whole nother but very important and related topic to all this. I already worry a lot about the loss of factories and blue collar work. Robots and such aren't going to make that any easier.

One could easily make the point the desperation Trump tapped into is just getting started. Which I think is important. Instead of keeping our heads in the sand and dismissing it as Racism. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
This topic was more on how to understand the Trump supporters but I agree completely there's lots of understanding to bridge for the Pro Trump folks to understand the other side as well.
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Joe - what is you take on my thoughts about 2-party system?  I basically maintain that there's not a lot to understand for a decent % of the people who voted for Trump (or Hillary or GWB or Obama) - they voted for him because he was an 'R'.

 
In other words, we are looking for nuance when none exists.  Then when we try to label or make people justify their vote they get defensive because ultimately they don't really have a justification other than I voted for him because he's on my team.  And I extend this to both sides - it's not just a 'R' situation in my view.  It's just that Trump has exasperated it by being so controversial.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Agreed @roadkill1292  This topic was more on how to understand the Trump supporters but I agree completely there's lots of understanding to bridge for the Pro Trump folks to understand the other side as well. 

UBI is a whole nother but very important and related topic to all this. I already worry a lot about the loss of factories and blue collar work. Robots and such aren't going to make that any easier.

One could easily make the point the desperation Trump tapped into is just getting started. Which I think is important. Instead of keeping our heads in the sand and dismissing it as Racism. 
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Fascinating.  I had hoped we were at a high water mark.  I had simple presumed that to be so without giving it any real thought.  The possibility that we could go further down the current road had never occurred to me, but you are right, it may be possible before matters come to a new stasis, a stasis reflecting new demographics and new economic realities that we could, temporarily move farther down whatever road we are currently on.  Myself, I cannot even give it an accurate name, this road.  Most, or many at any rate, chose to use old labels for what Trump represents.  I get that as he did run under the GOP banner.  Me, I think we are witnessing something new, or something very old reborn again, but something that defies the naming conventions we have had.  He has changed the meaning of Republican and Conservative and has done so at such a pace that it makes it difficult to communicate as definitions shift and catch up. 

 
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