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Please help save the Eagles thread: Who had a better career, McNabb or Romo?

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On 1/12/2018 at 8:18 PM, Ack88 said:

1. Romo

2. Wentz

3. Push. I’m a Cowboy fan and the level of knowledge is often shockingly low. Even worse is the fair weather fans. I grew up in New England and have always liked the Cowboys. I have lots of friends who grew up liking the Cowboys then suddenly becoming Patriots fans when the Pats ascended. As for Eagles fans, they talk like they’ve won something...ever.

This part has always bothered me. Just because it wasn't always called the Super Bowl doesn't mean the Eagles have never won. I mean, back in 2014, would you have said the Cubs had NEVER won? Or the Red Sox in 2003? And the Eagles drought can't remotely match the futility those two franchises felt before they finally broke through. Hell, the Eagles last championship was actually recent enough that a handful of today's fans even remember it!

Edited by renesauz

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Regular from the surrounding area of Dallas fans are ok people.

Philly fans are worse than them

The worst Cowboy fans are the ones from the Philly area but chose to root for the cowboys

Edited by belljr
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1 hour ago, need2know said:

To be fair the wrs McNabb had early on were some  of the worst I have ever seen.  I mean real bad.  Remember Freddie Mitchell?

Yeah but that O doesn't need much at WR to work. Basically a back that can catch and a stud te (which also benefits from that O). Any team had that JJ D for four years would win two Superbowls minimum. 

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2 hours ago, need2know said:

To be fair the wrs McNabb had early on were some  of the worst I have ever seen.  I mean real bad.  Remember Freddie Mitchell?

Todd Pinkston?

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Looking over the thread, the resounding winners are not at all surprising. McNabb obviously a better career than Romo, who was one of NFL's all-time worst Big Game quarterbacks.. And Wentz over Prescott is a no-brainer. Wentz is looking like he's going to be a once-in-a-decade type of NFL great. Looks like the best quarterback to come in the league since Rodgers. Prescott had a nice rookie year and was very average in his second season. The jury is still out, but he certainly not Elite or anything special.

As for the fan bases, I agree that both are miserable. And rightfully so. Eagles have never won a ring and their fans are very defensive about it.  Cowboys have won two playoff games in 20 years. And their fans are very defensive about that.

And Romo is an excellent announcer. 

Edited by JuniorNB
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On 1/13/2018 at 10:28 AM, Slider said:

McNabb luckily had Jim Johnson and his top 3 defense to couple with Andy Reid's super friendly QB offense. He needed to score about 14 to win most games. He was the gun at the knife fight and still couldn't win it all. Most overrated/luckiest QB ever. 

John Elway wants a word with you.....

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On 1/14/2018 at 5:27 PM, Chaka said:

McNabb better career.

Romo better QB.

Jury still out on Dak vs Wentz.

Just curious as to what makes Romo a better QB? Inflated stats or zero playoff wins?

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On 1/12/2018 at 8:49 PM, travdogg said:

Good catch. I should have said that Prescott and Wentz could be 1-2 in either order.

Though if you want to count broadcasting as an NFL contribution, its certainly possible that Romo does enough there to pass McNabb, hell he may have already. I think he's the best color commentator in the league right now. 

Well, better broadcasting, plus lack of DUI and sexual harassment...

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3 hours ago, SproutDaddy said:

Just curious as to what makes Romo a better QB? Inflated stats or zero playoff wins?

Okay but first, what's an "inflated stat"?

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3 hours ago, Loipz said:

Impartial in this all but how can one have a better career but be considered a lesser QB? Was it all by chance 

It's the Robert Horry effect. One of the best careers in NBA history but no one's gonna mistake that for Horry being one of the best forwards in NBA history.

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It's funny how these debates play out.  It seems to me that people have difficulty separating personal feelings from objective reality.  McNabb was a great QB for a lot of reasons, particularly the fact that he was very careful with the ball and he could supplement his deficiencies as a passer with amazing running ability. But how was he a better QB?

Win%: McNabb 60.4 | Romo 61.1

Cmp%: McNabb 59 | Romo 65.3

TD%: McNabb 4.4 | Romo 5.7

INT%: McNabb 2.2 | Romo 2.7

Y/A: McNabb 6.9 | Romo 7.9

Rate: McNabb 85.6 | Romo 97.1

Sk% McNabb 7.7 | Romo 5.4

Except for Win% and Int% those numbers aren't even close.

The entire argument in favor of McNabb seems to be playoff wins. That seems like a pretty narrow argument considering it's a team game. In McNabb's career playoff games the Eagles defense averaged 5.7 in PTS and 9.4 in yards. Are we really giving McNabb all the credit for those wins?

Here is the breakdown:

2000: 1-1, 4th PTS, 10th YDS

2001: 2-1, 2nd PTS, 7th YDS

2002: 1-1, 2nd PTS, 4th YDS

2003: 1-1 7th PTS, 20th YDS

2004: 2-1 2nd PTS, 10th YDS

2008: 2-1 4th PTS, 3rd YDS

2009: 0-1 19th PTS, 12th YDS

 

For Romo OTOH:

2006: 0-1, 20th PTS, 13th YDS

2007: 0-1, 13th PTS, 9th YDS

2009: 1-1, 2nd PTS, 9th YDS

2014: 1-1 , 15th PTS, 19th YDS

Romo's defenses averaged 12.5 in PTS, and 12.5 in YDS. One notable difference is that Romo was actually able to win a playoff game without a top 10 defense in either metric.

I have said this in other threads but the stigma of the botched PAT vs Seattle unfairly stuck with Romo for his entire career.  He was one of the best QBs of his generation and barely gets a modicum of the respect he deserves.

One last note is Romo's Cowboys went 4-4 against McNabb's Eagles head-to-head during the regular season and Romo's Cowboys beat McNabb's Eagles 34-14 in the 2009 Wildcard game closing the book on McNabb's career in Philadelphia.

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McNabb

Wentz

This is a joke. Philly fans can be crass and abusive, but at least they care win or lose. Dallas fans are some of the most fair weather fans in the league. They disappear when the team is bad. Also there is ZERO home field advantage in Dallas. Wine and cheese fans.

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55 minutes ago, Chaka said:

It's funny how these debates play out.  It seems to me that people have difficulty separating personal feelings from objective reality.  McNabb was a great QB for a lot of reasons, particularly the fact that he was very careful with the ball and he could supplement his deficiencies as a passer with amazing running ability. But how was he a better QB?

Win%: McNabb 60.4 | Romo 61.1

Cmp%: McNabb 59 | Romo 65.3

TD%: McNabb 4.4 | Romo 5.7

INT%: McNabb 2.2 | Romo 2.7

Y/A: McNabb 6.9 | Romo 7.9

Rate: McNabb 85.6 | Romo 97.1

Sk% McNabb 7.7 | Romo 5.4

Except for Win% and Int% those numbers aren't even close.

The entire argument in favor of McNabb seems to be playoff wins. That seems like a pretty narrow argument considering it's a team game. In McNabb's career playoff games the Eagles defense averaged 5.7 in PTS and 9.4 in yards. Are we really giving McNabb all the credit for those wins?

Here is the breakdown:

2000: 1-1, 4th PTS, 10th YDS

2001: 2-1, 2nd PTS, 7th YDS

2002: 1-1, 2nd PTS, 4th YDS

2003: 1-1 7th PTS, 20th YDS

2004: 2-1 2nd PTS, 10th YDS

2008: 2-1 4th PTS, 3rd YDS

2009: 0-1 19th PTS, 12th YDS

 

For Romo OTOH:

2006: 0-1, 20th PTS, 13th YDS

2007: 0-1, 13th PTS, 9th YDS

2009: 1-1, 2nd PTS, 9th YDS

2014: 1-1 , 15th PTS, 19th YDS

Romo's defenses averaged 12.5 in PTS, and 12.5 in YDS. One notable difference is that Romo was actually able to win a playoff game without a top 10 defense in either metric.

I have said this in other threads but the stigma of the botched PAT vs Seattle unfairly stuck with Romo for his entire career.  He was one of the best QBs of his generation and barely gets a modicum of the respect he deserves.

One last note is Romo's Cowboys went 4-4 against McNabb's Eagles head-to-head during the regular season and Romo's Cowboys beat McNabb's Eagles 34-14 in the 2009 Wildcard game closing the book on McNabb's career in Philadelphia.

McNabb had 9 playoff wins and Romo had 2.  There's not really much more that needs to be said.  Romo was introduced to the football community for flubbing up a field goal attempt as a holder in a huge game. That ended up being a sneak peak at his career. Very talented quarterback who couldn't lead his team when the chips were down.  Regular season? . Romo was just as good as Mcnabb. Come playoff time, give me McNabb 10 times out of 10.

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

McNabb had 9 playoff wins and Romo had 2.  There's not really much more that needs to be said.  Romo was introduced to the football community for flubbing up a field goal attempt as a holder in a huge game. That ended up being a sneak peak at his career. Very talented quarterback who couldn't lead his team when the chips were down.  Regular season? . Romo was just as good as Mcnabb. Come playoff time, give me McNabb 10 times out of 10.

I find it hard to believe that you have been here this long and think that the playoff win metric is so decisive.

I am curious to hear why you think the caliber of the team around each player doesn't matter when judging them.

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1 hour ago, JuniorNB said:

McNabb had 9 playoff wins and Romo had 2.  There's not really much more that needs to be said.  

Dilfer has a SB so he's better than Marino, right?

 

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1 hour ago, Chaka said:

I find it hard to believe that you have been here this long and think that the playoff win metric is so decisive.

I am curious to hear why you think the caliber of the team around each player doesn't matter when judging them.

I do think that matters.  Obviously. McNabb had Westbrook in the backfield but didn't have near the weapons to throw to as Romo did.  Other than the 21 games where he had Terrell Owens, who did Donovan McNabb have that was as talented as Dez Bryant and Mark Witten?  McNabb was throwing to Todd Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell. 

And I don't think that you can judge a QB solely on playoff performance, but when two are equal otherwise, they're performance in the clutch is a damn good tie-breaker. 9 wins vs 2 wins is too big of a discrepancy to ignore. 

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27 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I do think that matters.  Obviously. McNabb had Westbrook in the backfield but didn't have near the weapons to throw to as Romo did.  Other than the 21 games where he had Terrell Owens, who did Donovan McNabb have that was as talented as Dez Bryant and Mark Witten?  McNabb was throwing to Todd Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell. 

And I don't think that you can judge a QB solely on playoff performance, but when two are equal otherwise, they're performance in the clutch is a damn good tie-breaker. 9 wins vs 2 wins is too big of a discrepancy to ignore. 

That 9-2, in a vacuum logic makes Trent Dilfer one of the 31 best QBs in NFL history.

But if you want to use it then 5-4 in favor of Romo including 1-0 in the playoffs. Doesn't sit well, does it?

McNabb had five top four defenses, 7 top 10 defenses (eight actually but McNabb failed to get the Eagles to the playoffs during that season) which counts for far more in that 9-2 than you seem to be willing to credit. Mediocre accuracy, great mobility and didn't throw picks. That was McNabb's game.

Edited by Chaka
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On 1/10/2018 at 8:36 PM, SaintsInDome2006 said:

McNabb. 5 NFCC games, one Super Bowl. Easy.

9-2

not close

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On 1/10/2018 at 8:00 PM, modogg said:

1. Wentz vs Dak

Dak has better stats, pretty much across the board. I feel like he never takes shots or tries to fit the ball into a tight window. I prefer Wentz by a good margin, but it's really a subjective thing. At this point, Prescott has been the better QB. But I think by the end of their careers (presuming Carson stays healthy), that will flip. 

2. More insufferable fanbase - Philly or Dallas

There's quite a few Eagles fans on the board who are amongst the best in TSP. Cannot think of a single Cowboys fan I could say the same about.

ETA: Well IvanK seems like a good dude. So...one? I'm sure there are others I am forgetting about.

I sometimes wander into the Eagles thread just because it's very active and almost always a good discussion. I don't even like Philly and rarely own any of them in redraft (I play with a bunch of PA guys who target them), but I really enjoy their team thread. I don't think I consistently follow any other team thread in TSP.

Edited by BobbyLayne
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As a Philly native I can say while eagles fans are absolutely insufferable they are the most passionate fans I've ever seen. Their feelings swing back and forth with the wind, but ####### do they feel them with every fiber of their being.

Just look at the 76ers and "the process".  Most cities would lose their whole fan base.  Hinkie is like a God here now.

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There's a special category of fan that you only know if you live in Washington.  DC Cowboy fans are the worst of the lot.  Ive found the ones from Dallas pleasant enough (just misguided), but DC Cowboy fans are absolutely the worst sports fans you can find.

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10 hours ago, skinfanjon said:

There's a special category of fan that you only know if you live in Washington.  DC Cowboy fans are the worst of the lot.  Ive found the ones from Dallas pleasant enough (just misguided), but DC Cowboy fans are absolutely the worst sports fans you can find.

Shocking that you dislike fans of your rival team. 

ETA- I’ve got to say this.... I just want to go to the game and watch but inevitably some drunk, full body camo wearing hillbilly from Saint Mary’s county has to attempt to ruin our experience by putting his personal displeasure for his teams decades long ineptitude on display. 

Edited by STEADYMOBBIN 22

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2 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Shocking that you dislike fans of your rival team. 

ETA- I’ve got to say this.... I just want to go to the game and watch but inevitably some drink full body camo wearing hillbilly from Saint Mary’s county has to attempt to ruin our experience by putting his personal displeasure for his teams decades long ineptitude on display. 

Guessing your from DC given your response.. 

*Note the part where I called the fans I've met from Dallas pleasant enough.

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It's comical that McNabb would point out having better numbers than Aikman, as if that it is supposed to mean anything (different eras, for one).   Tons of modern day QB's have better numbers than Aikman - are we putting all of those guys in as well?  

Overall, I would say McNabb was a very good QB for many years, but not sure he was ever great.  Not once did he make an All-Pro Team, not even in the seasons when he had T. Owens.  It feels like to be a HoF QB who never won a ring, you really had to have stood out in your era (like Dan Marino did), and McNabb didn't really do that.  I won't gripe too much if he eventually makes it, especially when, as pointed out in one of those articles above, compilers like Frank Gore and Jason Witten will likely make it. 

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I like McNabb. Always have. But I think his career is very much on the line of making the HoF but I also would not make a strong argument if he were not to make it. I think it could really go either way. I do think he was a better QB than Aikman with less around him (Aikman has one of the greatest RB’s of all time and one of the best front 5 ever too) but he tried to make it seem like Super Bowls aren’t important which we obviously know is not the case. Would Eli ever be in the convo for HoF if he were not to win a super bowl?

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Aikman, while not Having gaudy numbers (in fact quite pedestrian,) he was on a run first team and by all accounts he was one of the most accurate quarterbacks who ever played the game. Miss me with completion percentages, I’m talking ball placement. 

Also, Aikman didn’t throw up in the Super Bowl(s).

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I'd argue the 2 best QB's in Eagles history were Norm Van Brocklin and Sonny Jurgensen, but those guys were both pre-merger and spent most of their careers on other teams. So excluding them I'd rank the Eagles vs Cowboys QB's as such:

1. McNabb

2. Aikman

3. Staubach

dropoff

4. Romo

dropoff

5. Cunningham

6. Meredith

I'd also say, that while I believe Wentz is a better QB than Prescott, Dak has done more so far. That has mostly been because of injury though. I can't give Wentz credit for things Foles did, even though the Eagles may not have been in that position in the first place without Wentz. So to date, Wentz has never won a playoff game, and has only finished 1 season. 

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McNabb by a country mile over Romo

Wentz not even in the conversation at this point in time

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HOF Philly sports writer Ray Didinger said in reference to McNabb's comments; if you're trying to make a case for inclusion into the Hall, you're not a HOF player. If you're worthy people would know. Ridiculous that he's trying to compare himself to Aikman.

Having said that, he's the best QB in Eagles' history.

Edited by Amused to Death

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22 hours ago, skinfanjon said:

There's a special category of fan that you only know if you live in Washington.  DC Cowboy fans are the worst of the lot.  Ive found the ones from Dallas pleasant enough (just misguided), but DC Cowboy fans are absolutely the worst sports fans you can find.

Change "DC" to "Philly" and the same is true.

:hifive:

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4 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

HOF Philly sports writer Ray Didinger said in reference to McNabb's comments; if you're trying to make a case for inclusion into the Hall, you're not a HOF player. If you're worthy people would know. Ridiculous that he's trying to compare himself to Aikman.

Having said that, he's the best QB in Eagles' history.

Not even close. Cunningham was better IMO, and there are a couple of pre-Super Bowl era QBs in the hall (hard to compare McNabb to them, but they were dominant in their time.)

Edited by renesauz
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On 5/24/2019 at 2:29 PM, Faust said:

This is amazing. He's basically shutting down every argument in this thread of him over Romo by saying stats are more important than wins. 

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Aikman is one of the most overrated QBs in NFL history.

Being said I get why he's in the HoF. McNabb simply does not belong.

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