What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Who really is the greatest of all time? (1 Viewer)

The NFL started in 1922, so "greatest of all time" is not just those in the Super Bowl era, or the p

  • Sid Luckman [1939 - 1950]

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Bart Starr [1956 - 1971]

    Votes: 2 1.2%

  • Otto Graham [1946 - 1955]

    Votes: 9 5.5%

  • Terry Bradshaw [1970 - 1983]

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Joe Montana [1979 - 1994]

    Votes: 59 35.8%

  • Tom Brady [2000 - 2017]

    Votes: 93 56.4%
  • Total voters
    165
Dancing Bear

Dancing Bear

Footballguy
Sid Luckman

Luckman took his team to the Championship game 5 of 7 years from 1940 - 1946.  He was 5-1 in playoff games, and won 4 out of 5 Championships.

Otto Graham

Graham took his team to the Championship 10 straight years from 1946 - 1955.  He was 9-3 in playoff games, and won 7 out of 10 Championships.  Before you get all excited about debunking the AAFC, remember that in the first year that the Browns entered the NFL in 1950, they went to the Championship game and won!  Graham took them to 6 straight Championships in the NFL with a 3-3 overall record.

Bart Starr

Starr took his team to the Championship game 6 out of 8 years from 1960 - 1967.  He was 9-1 in playoff games, and won 5 out of 6 Championships. Including 2 straight Super Bowl victories!

Terry Bradshaw

Bradshaw led the Steelers to 4 Super Bowl victories.  1974, 1975, 1978 & 1979.  He led them to 8 straight playoff appearances and overall 9 out of 11 years to the playoffs between 1972 - 1982.  He was 14-5 in playoff games.

Joe Montana

Montana led the 49ers to 4 Super Bowl victories.  1981, 1984, 1988 & 1989.  He led them to 8 straight playoff appearances.  He was 16-7 in playoff games.

Tom Brady

Brady has taken the Patriots to the playoffs 15 out the last 17 years.  He has 7 Super Bowl appearances with a 5-2 record.  Overall he is 25-9 in playoff
games.

Brady has avoided "father time" so far and he certainly has amassed the most appearances of the group.  However his playoff winning percentage
is only better than Montana's.  Graham led his team to 10 straight Championship games not just simply to playoff appearances.  Starr lost only 1 out of 10
playoff games and was 5-1 in Championship games.  Luckman lost only 1 out 6 playoff games and was 4-1 in Championship games.  Here is a summary of Championship appearances :

Graham : 7-3
Starr : 5-1
Luckman : 4-1
Brady : 5-2
Bradshaw : 4-0
Montana : 4-0

It's no slam dunk that Brady is the greatest of all time ...

 
My heart says Montana, out of nostalgia and because he was truly a QB who I feared my team facing any week during his reign.

My mind says Brady given what he's done, across such a wide stretch, with so many personnel changes.

But in the end, we all truly know who the greatest QB of all time is, the New York Jets' own: Flash Gordon.

 
I started watching pro sports about 1980-81 and i like to say I only cover that timeframe. Anything else is just stats and highlights and that just is not a true representation.

Brady gets high marks for amount of championships but for the consistency of the success of NE of which the only two constants have been him and BB. His leadership and absolutely meant volumes off the field, he has helped set that culture. But he's not the best and deep in his heart even I think he knows he's not as good as Joe Montana. Joe was the best and the absolute major difference was that Joe was at this best in the biggest games. Like always. He was even underrated good with the Chiefs, his body just gave out on him late that first year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
candian fantasy guy said:
Shouldn't P Manning be on that list? The guy changed how the league plays offense.
Click to expand...
No. His accomplishments simply pale in comparison to anyone on the list above.

Doesn't mean he's not an all time great. But neither is he top 5 all time, and certainly not greatest of all time. 

 
Koya said:
No. His accomplishments simply pale in comparison to anyone on the list above.

Doesn't mean he's not an all time great. But neither is he top 5 all time, and certainly not greatest of all time. 
Click to expand...
Accomplishments? Or do you mean SB rings? Personally, there is way more to this conversation than just rings. I would also take Manning over Bradshaw all day long!

And the old guys, it's so hard to have that conversation, different times and game. 

 
This thread is absurd. I love the argument that Brady's post season winning percentage is lower than a guy that went 5 - 1 in the playoffs. People forget Brady started 10 - 0 with 3 titles. 

This list is also dumb because there are about 5 to 8 quarterbacks that would have won the super bowl every year in  the 70's with that Steelers team. Brady and Montana are the only 2 that you got right. 

 
candian fantasy guy said:
Accomplishments? Or do you mean SB rings? Personally, there is way more to this conversation than just rings. I would also take Manning over Bradshaw all day long!

And the old guys, it's so hard to have that conversation, different times and game. 
Click to expand...
Championships are a big part of the accomplishment arena, though certainly not the only one.  In the end, especially a position like QB, winning holds a certain special place - some players just overcome whatever it may be and get #### done when it's needed.  One of the reasons Bradshaw is on the list - though I admit, I hadn't realized that and do put Manning considerably above Bradshaw all time.  Because rings aren't everything, either. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
This thread is absurd. I love the argument that Brady's post season winning percentage is lower than a guy that went 5 - 1 in the playoffs. People forget Brady started 10 - 0 with 3 titles. 

This list is also dumb because there are about 5 to 8 quarterbacks that would have won the super bowl every year in  the 70's with that Steelers team. Brady and Montana are the only 2 that you got right. 
Click to expand...
Any list of ALL TIME greats that includes neither Luckman or Graham is not a list of ALL TIME greats.  They absolutely are in the conversation, and potentially leaders of the conversation. 

 
ShamrockPride said:
None of these other QBs outside of Brady needed the aid of unquestionably the 2 stupidest playcalling sequences in the history of the sport, so it ain't him.

Inb4 twiddling my thumbs waiting for my inbox to blow up...
Click to expand...
Brady also lost both SBs from 2 of the craziest and amazing plays in SB history. And I still say if Welker caught that underneath pass in the 2nd SB loss, he would still be running. I say Brady but I think it's close. Also, if he wins this year does it settle it?

 
This is effectively a beauty contest and how can you judge beauty? IMO, the closest we can get is debating people from similar eras and then having a pantheon of all time greats. That being said, I loathe the discussions focused around if PLAYER X played for TEAM Y instead or had COACH Z then everything would have come out differently. That may all be true, but that's not what actually happened.

So while there might be some gee, I wonder what would have happened if Peyton Manning played with Jerry Rice with the 85 Bears coached by Bill Belichick, yes that team may have never lost a game.

There was a similar discussion I heard on the radio and someone was trying to make a case that Drew Brees had been a better QB than Tom Brady based on how many years Brees had over 5,000 yards passing. But lost in the debate was that Brees played way more games indoors and that he threw a zillion passes each year.

 
Anarchy99 said:
This is effectively a beauty contest and how can you judge beauty? IMO, the closest we can get is debating people from similar eras and then having a pantheon of all time greats. That being said, I loathe the discussions focused around if PLAYER X played for TEAM Y instead or had COACH Z then everything would have come out differently. That may all be true, but that's not what actually happened.
Click to expand...
Gee.  Shocking.  Of course you don't like it, because it lays bare the reason Brady isn't the slam dunk GOAT.

 
ShamrockPride said:
None of these other QBs outside of Brady needed the aid of unquestionably the 2 stupidest playcalling sequences in the history of the sport, so it ain't him.

Inb4 twiddling my thumbs waiting for my inbox to blow up...
Click to expand...
Don't forget the incompetence of Mike Martz who brought a powerhouse team into the SB and totally blew it. Add to that, Brady has never dominated another team in the SB. His biggest win previous to the OT win was 4 points.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Gee.  Shocking.  Of course you don't like it, because it lays bare the reason Brady isn't the slam dunk GOAT.
Click to expand...
I never once have said TB was the greatest QB ever. As I just said, there is a pantheon of guys from each generation. 

There is no right answer, and Brees fits the bill for those that look at the big yearly passing totals. If people look at team records or SB wins, then clearly Brees won’t rank as high. 

If you ask Bill Belichick, he would say Bert Jones was the total package. Yet he might be the only person that would vote for Beet Jones. 

 
Could you imagine the numbers Montana, Marino and Elway would put up if they didn't have to worry about getting absolutely destroyed well after releasing the ball? 

Remember "two steps"?????

For me it will always Montana. 

 
When the Patriots win on Saturday, it will be Brady’s 12th appearance in the AFC conference championship and his 7th consecutive appearance in the game.

Both Brady & Montana are just above a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the playoffs but Brady has been successful more and for a much longer time than Montana. 5-2 in the SB is better than 4-0.

 
JuniorGong said:
When the Patriots win on Saturday, it will be Brady’s 12th appearance in the AFC conference championship and his 7th consecutive appearance in the game.

Both Brady & Montana are just above a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the playoffs but Brady has been successful more and for a much longer time than Montana. 5-2 in the SB is better than 4-0.
Click to expand...
He also has a rule invented for him so he can't be touched and whines like a toddler anytime he is. 

Think he would still be playing with the multiple back surgeries he would have needed if he were playing in the 80s?

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
He also has a rule invented for him so he can't be touched and whines like a toddler anytime he is. 

Think he would still be playing with the multiple back surgeries he would have needed if he were playing in the 80s?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure all other QBs of this era play under the same rules. I agree he whines like a little ##### but fail to see how that factors into this discussion. The same goes for your surgery question.

 
Didn't omit Baugh, Unitas or Staubach.  They simply didn't make the threshold of at least 4 championship wins.

Baugh was 2-3

Unitas was 3-2

Staubach was 2-2

As much as I respect their contribution to the NFL, they simply don't match up to the 6 I have presented in the poll.

Manning?  ...  You make me laugh.  Manning was 2-2 in championships ...  He was also barely a 50-50 proposition in the playoffs in general with a 14-13 overall record.  He didn't even deserve the win against Carolina with how awful he played.

 
Dancing Bear said:
Didn't omit Baugh, Unitas or Staubach.  They simply didn't make the threshold of at least 4 championship wins.

Baugh was 2-3

Unitas was 3-2

Staubach was 2-2

As much as I respect their contribution to the NFL, they simply don't match up to the 6 I have presented in the poll.

Manning?  ...  You make me laugh.  Manning was 2-2 in championships ...  He was also barely a 50-50 proposition in the playoffs in general with a 14-13 overall record.  He didn't even deserve the win against Carolina with how awful he played.
Click to expand...
Ahh yes, the ol' Horry was better than Karl Malone argument.

Bradshaw isn't fit to carry Unitas's jock. Your pole is fla\/\/ed

 
My guess is the poll will only show results based on age the generation that voter x grew up with.  I didn't grow up watching any of these other QB's so their legacy is only that.  A legacy.  Where as I saw what Brady has done the past 15 years or so first hand so that gets my vote.  He might be the g.o.a.t. but there will always be questions about certain things that have come up during his career, Belichick being the craftsman for it all, deflategate, spygate, anyothergate, Gisele, people will make something up to squander what he's accomplished and the only one with merit is the debate of Brady or Belichick.  Either way they ascended each other's legacy into more than it would of been without their counterpart.  

 
Can't really take any qb from the last 20 years.  Game is played much different  than the way they play now, Qbs  were hit pretty much every  play.  Brady pisses down his leg with pressure he wouldn't even lasted a full season back then.  So Montana  is my choice.  But if your not factoring in the rule changes then it is Brady until someone comes along and beats him.

 
This might be the strangest list I've seen for this question. Hard to have this conversation without Peyton Manning and several others in the discussion

For those saying manning doesn't have the wins, he has a winning record head to head vs Brady in the championship game w/o having ever been coached by a coach of Belichick's caliber

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dancing Bear said:
Didn't omit Baugh, Unitas or Staubach.  They simply didn't make the threshold of at least 4 championship wins.

Baugh was 2-3

Unitas was 3-2

Staubach was 2-2

As much as I respect their contribution to the NFL, they simply don't match up to the 6 I have presented in the poll.

Manning?  ...  You make me laugh.  Manning was 2-2 in championships ...  He was also barely a 50-50 proposition in the playoffs in general with a 14-13 overall record.  He didn't even deserve the win against Carolina with how awful he played.
Click to expand...
So you'll admit its a team sports Right   But as far as evaluating performance  Baugh isn't the greatest Or even on the list alongside guys like "Bart Star" aka dream team   Interesting post!

 
Dancing Bear said:
Otto Graham

Graham took his team to the Championship 10 straight years from 1946 - 1955.  He was 9-3 in playoff games, and won 7 out of 10 Championships.  Before you get all excited about debunking the AAFC, remember that in the first year that the Browns entered the NFL in 1950, they went to the Championship game and won!  Graham took them to 6 straight Championships in the NFL with a 3-3 overall record.
Click to expand...
I voted Montana but reality is Walsh learned from Brown, and it was Graham who made it possible for Brown to invent the modern offense that pro football is built on today.

 
Fans may not always like the results  However Favre could throw the ball long, hard, And at almost any situation/angle   :2cents:

 
To ask "greatest of all time" in the question, then base the candidate list entirely on championship totals, is decidedly flawed.  Greatness has to do with many more factors than merely how good the people around you were.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
My heart says Montana, out of nostalgia and because he was truly a QB who I feared my team facing any week during his reign.

My mind says Brady given what he's done, across such a wide stretch, with so many personnel changes.

But in the end, we all truly know who the greatest QB of all time is, the New York Jets' own: Flash Gordon.
Click to expand...
Those other guys won multiple Super Bowls but he was the savior of the universe.

 
Jerry Rice. Give me an average QB with Rice over a great QB with average WR's. 

If its QB only, I go Manning. Manning has become amazingly underrated these last few years. I guess having one bad year after 15 great ones(even one that ended in a championship) really sticks with people. Manning dragged a slightly above average team kicking and screaming to contention  almost every year. 

Starr and Bradshaw being on this list is crazy. They were good players on great teams, those teams could have had a half dozen other QB's from their  respective eras, and would have been as good or better. They are only one step up from a guy like Roethlisberger.

I'd rank the guys on this list as follows:

Graham, Luckman, Brady, Montana, Starr, Bradshaw

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gawain said:
Where is Unitas? He's the glaring omission.
Click to expand...
Unitas yardage totals were about double those of Hall of Fame contemporaries from the same era.  Brady, Montana, Bradshaw are no where close to that same sort of relative impact.  Starr, his quarterback rating, particularly his post season quarterback rating is still among the very best, and was achieved at a time where he was more or less double his then hall of fame contemporaries.

They are the two Q.B.'s that transcended their times.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ministry of Pain
What is your level of interest in the NFL when your FF season is over?
Replies
35
Views
715
Zeppelin
Z
Anarchy99
I clicked on one of the "30 Greatest QBs of All-Time Ranked" Links
Replies
44
Views
2K
Truebluey
Truebluey
ChiefD
Your Homer Team, Who Have They Played, How Do You Feel?
Replies
45
Views
1K
jon_mx
J

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top