Stealthycat
Footballguy
Thoughts ?
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Kentucky to add Medicaid work requirement (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Stealthycat
- Start date
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I think it’s terrible.
G
Guest
Guest
I look forward to hearing about all the community service opportunities available for the poor to participate in. And how they're going to be facilitated by the state for the people too poor to have cars.
Part of the point of Medicaid is to cover people who can’t possibly afford private insurance because they’re unable to work.
In any case, hospitals will still treat uninsured patients who need emergency care. It’s just that now they won’t be reimbursed by the government through Medicaid, so they’ll instead charge more to their paying patients, making health care even more unaffordable and pricing even more people out of the insurance market in a self-perpetuating spiral.
In any case, hospitals will still treat uninsured patients who need emergency care. It’s just that now they won’t be reimbursed by the government through Medicaid, so they’ll instead charge more to their paying patients, making health care even more unaffordable and pricing even more people out of the insurance market in a self-perpetuating spiral.
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squistion
Footballguy
https://www.thedailybeast.com/republican-governors-get-ok-from-trump-administration-to-gut-medicaid/?via=twitter_page
Republican Governors Get OK From Trump Administration to Gut Medicaid
For the first time in the program’s history, beneficiaries would have to prove they are working to receive health insurance. Hundreds of thousands could lose coverage.
[...]
The new rules will help “people rise out of poverty,” CMS administrator Seema Verma said in a conference call with reporters on Thursday.
But that’s not how one of Kentucky’s own representatives sees it.
“Make no mistake: people will die because of this,” Rep. John Yarmuth, the state’s only Democrat in Congress, said in a statement to The Daily Beast.
“Thousands of Kentucky families will face financial ruin,” he continued. “Governor Bevin and President Trump are creating an entirely unnecessary crisis in our Commonwealth for entirely political reasons. It is an unconscionable attack on our state’s health, and I will continue to fight for every Kentuckian to get the health care they need and deserve.”
What’s more is that advocates and other politicians have pointed to the fact that most Medicaid recipients do in fact work and that being healthy is often a precursor to even holding down a job and that specific state requirements could be challenged legally. The move is seen as a piece of the administration’s assault on the Affordable Care Act, which expanded Medicaid eligibility to give millions more health insurance coverage.
“Today’s attack on Medicaid is just the latest salvo of the Trump Administration’s 2018 war on health care,” Brad Woodhouse, director of the Protect our Care campaign, told The Daily Beast. “Having faced overwhelming public rejection of their failed attempts to repeal health care, Trump and his Congressional Republicans are now going for death by a thousand cuts.”
Requiring recipients to demonstrate a form of employment could cause people to lose coverage simply by falling through the cracks, critics of the work requirement say.
“Everybody has to go through the bureaucratic nightmare of submitting paperwork to prove that they are working,” Leonardo Cuello, director of health policy at the at the National Health Law Program explained to The Daily Beast. “The actual impact of this thing is terminations.”
Most advocates say they just really don’t know exactly how this will play out and just how bad it could be for the state’s recipients.
“We just don’t have a lot of detail. It’s worrisome,” Andrea Callow, associate director of Medicaid Initiatives at Families USA told The Daily Beast. “I think I’ve seen it referred to as the Wild Wild West.”
Callow said she’s specifically concerned about the opioid crisis and the potential for an individual to get locked out of coverage while attempting to get addiction treatments like Suboxone. CMS guidance indicates that states have a lot of flexibility and that people with opioid addiction could be exempted or permitted to have treatment count towards required work.
“I think any program that is going to take coverage away from people in a state that is struggling so mightily with an opioid epidemic, is inevitably going to chill the state’s ability to address the epidemic,” Callow said.
Additionally a state could provide certain additional exemptions from the work requirement, for instance for people in rural areas who may have fewer job opportunities. That in turn, could create a scenario in which urban dwellers, potentially more people of color, might face a stiffer requirement for coverage. [...]
Republican Governors Get OK From Trump Administration to Gut Medicaid
For the first time in the program’s history, beneficiaries would have to prove they are working to receive health insurance. Hundreds of thousands could lose coverage.
[...]
The new rules will help “people rise out of poverty,” CMS administrator Seema Verma said in a conference call with reporters on Thursday.
But that’s not how one of Kentucky’s own representatives sees it.
“Make no mistake: people will die because of this,” Rep. John Yarmuth, the state’s only Democrat in Congress, said in a statement to The Daily Beast.
“Thousands of Kentucky families will face financial ruin,” he continued. “Governor Bevin and President Trump are creating an entirely unnecessary crisis in our Commonwealth for entirely political reasons. It is an unconscionable attack on our state’s health, and I will continue to fight for every Kentuckian to get the health care they need and deserve.”
What’s more is that advocates and other politicians have pointed to the fact that most Medicaid recipients do in fact work and that being healthy is often a precursor to even holding down a job and that specific state requirements could be challenged legally. The move is seen as a piece of the administration’s assault on the Affordable Care Act, which expanded Medicaid eligibility to give millions more health insurance coverage.
“Today’s attack on Medicaid is just the latest salvo of the Trump Administration’s 2018 war on health care,” Brad Woodhouse, director of the Protect our Care campaign, told The Daily Beast. “Having faced overwhelming public rejection of their failed attempts to repeal health care, Trump and his Congressional Republicans are now going for death by a thousand cuts.”
Requiring recipients to demonstrate a form of employment could cause people to lose coverage simply by falling through the cracks, critics of the work requirement say.
“Everybody has to go through the bureaucratic nightmare of submitting paperwork to prove that they are working,” Leonardo Cuello, director of health policy at the at the National Health Law Program explained to The Daily Beast. “The actual impact of this thing is terminations.”
Most advocates say they just really don’t know exactly how this will play out and just how bad it could be for the state’s recipients.
“We just don’t have a lot of detail. It’s worrisome,” Andrea Callow, associate director of Medicaid Initiatives at Families USA told The Daily Beast. “I think I’ve seen it referred to as the Wild Wild West.”
Callow said she’s specifically concerned about the opioid crisis and the potential for an individual to get locked out of coverage while attempting to get addiction treatments like Suboxone. CMS guidance indicates that states have a lot of flexibility and that people with opioid addiction could be exempted or permitted to have treatment count towards required work.
“I think any program that is going to take coverage away from people in a state that is struggling so mightily with an opioid epidemic, is inevitably going to chill the state’s ability to address the epidemic,” Callow said.
Additionally a state could provide certain additional exemptions from the work requirement, for instance for people in rural areas who may have fewer job opportunities. That in turn, could create a scenario in which urban dwellers, potentially more people of color, might face a stiffer requirement for coverage. [...]
While they probably also voted for Trump - this dates back to electing Bevin - it has just taken him a little while to figure out how best to #### up the system
timschochet
Footballguy
I have two thoughts:
1. First off, its a really awful idea. Other posters have explained why, and I have little to add other than I agree with them.
2. Second, it always amazes me that conservatives spend so much time focusing on government spending for the less fortunate, while completely ignoring corporate subsidies. As a society we spend way more on the latter, it's not even close. Yet these don't ever get a mention, while stuff like Medicaid, which is a tiny fraction of the federal budget, or foreign aid, which is also pennies on the dollar, receive tons and tons of attention. It's absurd.
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If the less fortunate didn't want their benefits cut by politicians, they should have spent a lot more on campaign contributions.timschochet said:
timschochet
Footballguy
lol great point!
But I wasn't referring to the bought and paid for politicians. I was referring to middle class conservatives like StealthyCat here. They gain no benefit from corporate subsidies. They are in no way negatively affected by government spending on the less fortunate, yet they spend so much time griping about the latter.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
My thought is, maybe the increase deficit/debt spending we are doing giving tax breaks being to big companies that are already trying to figure out what to do with the extra cash they already have should have gone to things like Medicaid. At least the general populace is guaranteed a benefit in that scenario.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It's going to br the opposite- those cuts will be offset by cuts to social safety nets.
That one guy
Footballguy
I haven't read the whole article, so possibly answered within...how does this pass as constitutional? I'm not necessarily claiming it to be unlawful, just curious if it passes as such initially and if any challenges have been brought against it?
Second, the overall idiocy of our health insurance system facilitating health care is slowly forcing me to abandon "free market" solutions in favor of single payer
Second, the overall idiocy of our health insurance system facilitating health care is slowly forcing me to abandon "free market" solutions in favor of single payer
One of my favorite recent quotes comes from Louie CK (maybe it wasn’t original): ‘The only time you need to be checking what’s in your neighbor’s bowl is if you’re checking to make sure they have enough.’
Too many people look at other people’s bowls and are mad that they are getting more than they deserve.
I’m not completely opposed to doing something similar to this if it’s a program done right. The current system gives incentive to staying in the system rather than working to get out of it. If a state were to focus on a job training program to help people gain the skills and experience needed to succeed, I might be able to get behind that. That’s not what this is. It’s a simple push to get people off of Medicaid no matter the consequences to appease a base of voters.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
unable to work - that's covered, those people won't be affected, right ?Maurile Tremblay said:
I know of a person who IMO faked a back injury. He got a lawyer, after many failed attempts to have back surgery for the "pain" he finally found someone that Would give him a back surgery. After 6 years, the lawyer done his job and this person got a fat backpay- non-taxable - of around $150,000.
Today, he worked harder than I do physically, gets his monthly checks, Govt insurance etc. He is living a nice life, doing what he wants, when he wants.
Cases like him are abundant, if your'e disabled, truly disabled, this bill won't affect you. If you're scamming the system, its going to.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
OMG that's the entire philosophy of the left right now! Worry about someone else's tax bracket, someone else's work compared to their salary's etc.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
There are a lot of exceptions. I don't think I have a problem with this accordingly.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
2 thoughts. The mindset that the poorest and sickest people in Kentucky can just bootstrap their way out of it is disgusting, and this is going to hurt those families in Kentucky who are already struggling the most.
My question would be: "what is the benefit?" I'm not sure I understand the trade-off. What do the residents of Kentucky now receive in return?
My question would be: "what is the benefit?" I'm not sure I understand the trade-off. What do the residents of Kentucky now receive in return?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
odd
the decline is tens of millions of people sitting back and doing nothing while the other work .......... are you anti-work ?
I am anti-work. I also hate the USA. Thanks for pointing out the obvious flaw in my argument
Also I am hoping we lose the war on christmas
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
uh .... yes, working is exactly how you bootstrap your way up and out
"do not feed the animals" is a sign in almost every national park. Do you know why? give the animals free stuff all the time, and they'll expect the free stuff all the time and stop foraging for food as nature intended, becoming totally dependent on handouts
people are like that too
the benefit is getting people off the couch who can work 20 hours a week, its good for them, its good for society and maybe it'll spurn those abusing the system to drop out of their dependence and get back to work.
the projected numbers are in the article on benefits to society
Stealthycat
Footballguy
well there you go - good luck with Canada. Its not what people thing it is. Your better bet is to illegally go to Mexico - we treat their citizens nicely when they come here illegally, I assume its reciprocal
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I think if there is a scale our deeds are weighed against when we die, the whole of the Republican Party in Kentucky from this decade and all of its voters will have a stack of bodies on one side of theirs.Stealthycat said:
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
How many people in Kentucky would this negatively effect? It can’t be too many with all the exceptions. I don’t get the outrage.
sure if only kills a couple of people...meh...collateral damage. Nobody cares about those jerks anyway
Stealthycat
Footballguy
What do you think the % is of Medicare/Medicaid/disability fraud? Do you think there is a problem if 10% of the population is drawing checks? 20%? 40% ?
At what number will there be a massive problem?
you disagree with "do not feed the animals" then ? you think we should ?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I think if you continue to think of people as animals you shouldn’t feed you’ll continue to have very different opinions about how to treat people from the opinions I have.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
if they already work ........ why are they on Medicaid benefits?
see, that's the problem, when it becomes more advantageous to stay on the Govt ### than it is to go forage on your own.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
in other words you agree with the concept of Govt keeping people on the couch and sending them a check every week - don't help them get back to work, don't help them be productive members of society
socially enslave them
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/12/news/economy/kentucky-medicaid-work-requirements/index.html
The work requirement, which will take effect in July, will apply to all able-bodied, working-age adults who are not pregnant, medically frail, full-time students or primary caregivers of dependents. About 350,000 Kentuckyresidents will be subject to this mandate, but about half of them already have jobs or are in other activities that would satisfy the requirement.
In addition to working, recipients can meet the requirement by volunteering, participating in job training or job searching and taking classes.
The work requirement, which will take effect in July, will apply to all able-bodied, working-age adults who are not pregnant, medically frail, full-time students or primary caregivers of dependents. About 350,000 Kentuckyresidents will be subject to this mandate, but about half of them already have jobs or are in other activities that would satisfy the requirement.
In addition to working, recipients can meet the requirement by volunteering, participating in job training or job searching and taking classes.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The case could also be made that it could save lives. I guess you’d have to look at the net plus other factors. I don’t think it’s so simple.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
No, in other words I think people who refer to social welfare programs as “feeding the animals” make me roil with anger.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Let’s take Kentucky.The Commish said:
$7.25 * 40 * 52 = $15,080.00
Medicaid limit for a household of 1 = $16,394.00
The Commish
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Limit is just under $28,000.00 So really, if a single mother of two works only 74 hours a week, she’s doing fine.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
It's high time we do something about moochers like these. If we send the kids back into the coal mines like we used to in the good old days before Government was in our business, she could probably work 80 hours and get off the gravy train.
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The Future Champs
Footballguy
Sadly?Sinn Fein said:Yeah Kentucky!
Sadly, many of the people that voted for this, are the ones most likely to be affected...
Redwes25
Footballguy
As described in the article it does not bother me too much but the devil is in the details around medically frail and care giver exceptions. If those are reasonable then I think it can work.
Yes. Just because we live in a ####hole, does not mean everyone here is an #######
Henry Ford
Footballguy
When I was very young, things were different than they are now. Not terribly different, but enough. There was a kid who was very slow in my school. He would be identified as having severe developmental disabilities these days, but then he was just “slow” and people called him r*****d. Never by his name. Just that. He was a nice kid, but slow and lonely and easily manipulated.
One of the prime ways people picked on him was to convince him to say horrible things in class, to the teacher, and get in trouble. The final straw, after which he was never allowed back in our class, was raising his hand and when called on, calling the teacher a string of insults I would blush to say to a $5 prostitute in Haiti after an eightball and a fifth of whiskey.
I recall with startling clarity what my friend Blake said to me after that day. He turned to me and said “I can’t believe they convinced that [fornicating] r*** to do that. What do you think will happen to him?”
I don’t know why I thought of that, but I was sad about that, too.
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