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Kentucky to add Medicaid work requirement (1 Viewer)

When I was very young, things were different than they are now. Not terribly different, but enough.  There was a kid who was very slow in my school.  He would be identified as having severe developmental disabilities these days, but then he was just “slow” and people called him r*****d.  Never by his name. Just that. He was a nice kid, but slow and lonely and easily manipulated.

One of the prime ways people picked on him was to convince him to say horrible things in class, to the teacher, and get in trouble.  The final straw, after which he was never allowed back in our class, was raising his hand and when called on, calling the teacher a string of insults I would blush to say to a $5 prostitute in Haiti after an eightball and a fifth of whiskey.

I recall with startling clarity what my friend Blake said to me after that day.  He turned to me and said “I can’t believe they convinced that [fornicating] r*** to do that.  What do you think will happen to him?”

I don’t know why I thought of that, but I was sad about that, too.  
That is sad.   

That said, in regards to the former, I think it’s unfortunate, and I hope no harm comes to those involved, but I reserve my sadness for others.  Functioning capable adults who deliberately make choices that aren’t in their best financial interests might actually want those outcomes.  

 
These people should be happy that the people they voted in are allowing them this opportunity to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

They could probably just sell some of their stock portfolio to cover this. 

 
I read about this last night and since it exempted the elderly, disabled, children, etc. I didn't have a problem with it.  I didn't realize that by working they lost coverage.  What a bunch of crap.

 
That is sad.   

That said, in regards to the former, I think it’s unfortunate, and I hope no harm comes to those involved, but I reserve my sadness for others.  Functioning capable adults who deliberately make choices that aren’t in their best financial interests might actually want those outcomes.  
Functioning in what sense? Politically? Socially? Economically?

At the very least, anyone who makes less than $20,000 per year voting down the ticket Republican is economically disabled, likely politically. 

 
I read about this last night and since it exempted the elderly, disabled, children, etc. I didn't have a problem with it.  I didn't realize that by working they lost coverage.  What a bunch of crap.
You don't lose coverage by working. Many individuals work and are still on Medicaid. In fact a minimum wage job won't be enough to force someone over the threshold to receive Medicaid. 

 
Matthias said:
I look forward to hearing about all the community service opportunities available for the poor to participate in. And how they're going to be facilitated by the state for the people too poor to have cars.
This is laughable. Spend some time in these areas and you can see thousands of hours of work that can be done. 

Habitat for humanity should be all over this and start cleaning up neighborhoods one by one. I bet you donations would soar. 

Democrats should embrace this. The amount of good that could be done is mind blowing if you really think about it.  They should push for legislation that would freeze property taxes in certain zip codes for many years so when they are improved the people that live there can stay there. 

Oh wait, no lets just complain about it and say it is sooooo mean and heartless so we can pander to our base. 

 
You don't lose coverage by working. Many individuals work and are still on Medicaid. In fact a minimum wage job won't be enough to force someone over the threshold to receive Medicaid. 
That's good, not the way it sounded.  I'm all for making able bodied adults work, except me, but don't want to see the punished for it.  I could Google but what's the max they can make and still get Medicaid? 

 
That's good, not the way it sounded.  I'm all for making able bodied adults work, except me, but don't want to see the punished for it.  I could Google but what's the max they can make and still get Medicaid? 
133% of federal poverty level which varies by family size, etc.

 
That's good, not the way it sounded.  I'm all for making able bodied adults work, except me, but don't want to see the punished for it.  I could Google but what's the max they can make and still get Medicaid? 
For one person, $16k or so.  Family of 3 about $28k

 
That sounds low threshold but what do I know.
Children have higher thresholds and it is pretty complicated formula but the program is designed for the poor so thresholds are pretty low (even after Obamacare expansion).  

To be honest, Medicaid is one of the most cost effective government programs out there.  Medicare is the real drain on the federal budget and not Medicaid. 

 
Kentucky strikes me as a state that has very strict Medicaid requirements so I can't see this affecting that many people. And I already know without checking that they didn't expand Medicaid because...Kentucky. 

As far as eliminating vision and dental coverage, I didn't even know Medicaid covered that in general. In Texas, Medicaid only covers vision and dental for children. 

Things like this is why we can't leave certain things up to the states with block-grants. 

Think of what ####-show it would be if Medicare was left up to the states. States like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, etc would be awful for the elderly. They'd be worse off than they already are. 

But this is what they voted for so...

 
Kentucky strikes me as a state that has very strict Medicaid requirements so I can't see this affecting that many people. And I already know without checking that they didn't expand Medicaid because...Kentucky. 

As far as eliminating vision and dental coverage, I didn't even know Medicaid covered that in general. In Texas, Medicaid only covers vision and dental for children. 

Things like this is why we can't leave certain things up to the states with block-grants. 

Think of what ####-show it would be if Medicare was left up to the states. States like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, etc would be awful for the elderly. They'd be worse off than they already are. 

But this is what they voted for so...
Good idea to explain you’re misinformed and won’t do the work to get yourself informed early in a post like this. 

But yes, block grants are a disaster.  See mental health care in this country as an example. 

 
Good idea to explain you’re misinformed and won’t do the work to get yourself informed early in a post like this. 

But yes, block grants are a disaster.  See mental health care in this country as an example. 
So they did expand Medicaid? 

And I work in mental health, I know first hand how awful the system is. Very sad. 

 
No, in other words I think people who refer to social welfare programs as “feeding the animals” make me roil with anger. 
why? isn't the comparison accurate?

don't make it look like human life matters in the US - it really doesn't, not the much. We kill 850,000 unborn babies. Cigarette smoking causes More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke). 30,000 die in auto deaths, hundreds of thousands injured and that's acceptable. 45-50,000 drug deaths.

your side wants to keep people living in poverty, keep them fat couch potatoes, keep them dependent on the Govt for all their needs. You tell me if that doesn't sound exactly like feeding the bears ends up? Its social slavery.

some people need help - absolutely

some people are frauds and need caught and penalized heavily for doing it

many need to be enabled to back into the work force, for themselves, their lives, their society. we don't need 60% or 70% of working aged people not working. That will absolutely NEVER work in the long run. Ever.

 
Let’s take Kentucky. 

$7.25 * 40 * 52 = $15,080.00

Medicaid limit for a household of 1 = $16,394.00
do you know what contributions Medicaid gives for the above person? you seem to have much better googling skills with that than me or you simply know.

I think anyone liberal, conservative etc agree's there is a problem when minimum wage earners are declared low enough income for social help. The Govt standard is off, or wages are off obviously something is off. 

I noticed everyone skipped by my example - how many people know people that are on disability or Govt subsidies that cheat the system a bit?

I know a woman, divorced, 2 kids ..... she earns a decent wage but she's adamant to NOT get pay raises and the NOT breach a certain $$$ amount. If she does, she loses State sponsored child care assistance. 

Aint that something? She doesn't want to better her work, her income, herself, because its better for her to be like a bear and beg for scraps. Social slavery - she's caught in it, her choices in large have led her to be a slave to the Fed Govt and the cost is any chance she can better herself.

 
I didn't realize that by working they lost coverage.  What a bunch of crap.
why shouldn't they lose coverage?

I mean, the entire concept of social help is to temporarily help people so they can get back to work, get back to earning their living, contributing to society. 

welfare at 26 and living on it all your life is NOT what social care is for

 
parasaurolophus said:
Habitat for humanity should be all over this and start cleaning up neighborhoods one by one. I bet you donations would soar. 
that's what I'm thinking too

when is the last time anyone here donated their time to charity ? you accomplish something, you feel good about it ......... just like working a hard day's work makes a man feel good at the end of the day, earning his wages, earning his keep

those are GOOD things

 
Saying stuff like this makes “our side” immediately deem your views as unreasonable.  
tell me I'm wrong then

why should people get out and work, be productive, contribute to society when they can sit home and draw a check ?

c'mon, don't be naive, welfare fraud and abuse is high, and I mean from people faking injuries to having full time jobs on the side while drawing their checks to staying poor and shackled to the system because its easier ................. 

Look at these numbers - incredible that 110 million people suck the Govt ### in some form isn't it? Talk about massive dependency, here it is for everyone to see. i don't WANT people on Govt dependency, I don't WANT people shackled in the chains of a Fed Govt check every week. Enable people, get them working again, reinstall a sense of pride and accomplishment in working for something. 

that anyone would want to enslave people socially through Fed Govt welfare baffles me

109,631,000 living in households taking federal welfare benefits as of the end of 2012, according to the Census Bureau, equaled 35.4 percent of all 309,467,000 people living in the United States at that time.Aug 20, 2014

 
tell me I'm wrong then
Right now I’m not arguing about what’s the best policy to help people.  Rest assured I disagree with you but I don’t want to get sidetracked. All I’m saying is that you should not assume that those that disagree with you about policy are doing so for the purpose of hurting people.

This is something both sides do.  You are in favor of shrinking social services because you think that will ultimately make people’s lives better.  But some people will accuse you of having that position because you hate poor people.

If you don’t want people to assume your policy views are due to evil motives, then don’t assume others are either.  And if you think the only possible reason the other side can think a certain way is because they have evil motives, then you might not understand their views very well.

 
why? isn't the comparison accurate?

don't make it look like human life matters in the US - it really doesn't, not the much. We kill 850,000 unborn babies. Cigarette smoking causes More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke). 30,000 die in auto deaths, hundreds of thousands injured and that's acceptable. 45-50,000 drug deaths.

your side wants to keep people living in poverty, keep them fat couch potatoes, keep them dependent on the Govt for all their needs. You tell me if that doesn't sound exactly like feeding the bears ends up? Its social slavery.

some people need help - absolutely

some people are frauds and need caught and penalized heavily for doing it

many need to be enabled to back into the work force, for themselves, their lives, their society. we don't need 60% or 70% of working aged people not working. That will absolutely NEVER work in the long run. Ever.
No, it isn’t accurate.  And when you repeatedly refer to people as animals, you sound pretty scummy. 

 
Look at these numbers - incredible that 110 million people suck the Govt ### in some form isn't it? Talk about massive dependency, here it is for everyone to see. i don't WANT people on Govt dependency, I don't WANT people shackled in the chains of a Fed Govt check every week. Enable people, get them working again, reinstall a sense of pride and accomplishment in working for something. 

that anyone would want to enslave people socially through Fed Govt welfare baffles me
What kind of person demonizes everyone in the US who receives any type of welfare benefit?  

 
Right now I’m not arguing about what’s the best policy to help people.  Rest assured I disagree with you but I don’t want to get sidetracked. All I’m saying is that you should not assume that those that disagree with you about policy are doing so for the purpose of hurting people.

This is something both sides do.  You are in favor of shrinking social services because you think that will ultimately make people’s lives better.  But some people will accuse you of having that position because you hate poor people.

If you don’t want people to assume your policy views are due to evil motives, then don’t assume others are either.  And if you think the only possible reason the other side can think a certain way is because they have evil motives, then you might not understand their views very well.
kitty, read this...like 50 times if you have to.

 
The kind of person who assumes that everyone receiving welfare is cheating the system, not working and sitting on the couch.
show me where I said everyone

I never did - and that's the snowflake mentality to go extreme on anything and everything

read the article - understand what's trying to be done

 
Right now I’m not arguing about what’s the best policy to help people.  Rest assured I disagree with you but I don’t want to get sidetracked. All I’m saying is that you should not assume that those that disagree with you about policy are doing so for the purpose of hurting people.

This is something both sides do.  You are in favor of shrinking social services because you think that will ultimately make people’s lives better.  But some people will accuse you of having that position because you hate poor people.

If you don’t want people to assume your policy views are due to evil motives, then don’t assume others are either.  And if you think the only possible reason the other side can think a certain way is because they have evil motives, then you might not understand their views very well.
what is the view from the side that doesn't want this then? Getting people off social aid, getting people back to work, stopping any and all fraud etc. Those are all positives, surely EVERYONE can agree on ?

 
show me where I said everyone

I never did - and that's the snowflake mentality to go extreme on anything and everything

read the article - understand what's trying to be done
Yeah and it’s the Trump supporter mentality to know nothing about the topic but still pretend to be an expert.

Earlier you fought back when someone claimed that you could work full time and still qualify for Medicaid. You’ve stated time after time that you think there’s an extremely high percentage of people fraudulently on Medicaid and disability. Numerous times you’ve characterized people on Medicaid as being lazy and just sitting on their couch. Maybe you didn’t come out and specifically say it but it doesn’t take a genius to read between the lines and see what you really mean. And to call me a ‘snowflake’...come on buddy, this isn’t the Facebook comment section of Fox News story.

 
what is the view from the side that doesn't want this then? Getting people off social aid, getting people back to work, stopping any and all fraud etc. Those are all positives, surely EVERYONE can agree on ?
CHIP is a bridge program designed to help working poor people get health insurance for their families.  It's for workers either too new at their job to qualify for health benefits, or don't make enough money to afford it.  It's been a successful program, encouraging people to work without worrying about losing health coverage provided by social safety nets.  It's fair to say CHIP got people off social aid, got people back to work, and reduced fraud.  If these are positives, surely EVERYONE can agree on, why did the party in power stop funding it?  

 
No matter what angle you take, some people will always view any type of government welfare (food stamps, section 8, tanif, Medicaid, etc) as an unnecessary handout that lazy poor people take advantage of. 

Poverty has always been associated with character flaws and being irresponsible. 

A big part of it is welfare being associated with minorities (specifically African-Americans) because LBJ (a democrat) made it possible for poor black women to start receiving aide. Before the "war on poverty" blacks were refused welfare benefits. 

 
tell me I'm wrong then

why should people get out and work, be productive, contribute to society when they can sit home and draw a check ?

c'mon, don't be naive, welfare fraud and abuse is high, and I mean from people faking injuries to having full time jobs on the side while drawing their checks to staying poor and shackled to the system because its easier ................. 

Look at these numbers - incredible that 110 million people suck the Govt ### in some form isn't it? Talk about massive dependency, here it is for everyone to see. i don't WANT people on Govt dependency, I don't WANT people shackled in the chains of a Fed Govt check every week. Enable people, get them working again, reinstall a sense of pride and accomplishment in working for something. 

that anyone would want to enslave people socially through Fed Govt welfare baffles me
You have an interesting perspective on the word slavery.  If you recall, slaves did a lot of work and were paid nothing.

Being “shackled” to a corporation making $7.25 an hour while the CEO and shareholder masters get rich off their productivity seems a lot closer to slavery.  I would just think about the terminology you are using.

Getting free healthcare from the government for no work is pretty much the opposite.  I’m not saying people shouldn’t work if they are able to, because we are a capitalist society and it isn’t fair to others that pay taxes.

But I would also argue that affordable healthcare, like schools, defense, police and firefighting, should be a basic right for all citizens.

.

 
I've said for years, that the real problem is childcare.  For the LIFE of me, I don't understand why instead of paying people money so that they have a disincentive to work, we don't pay 100% child care credits.  (Or develop some sort of childcare program where people can use credits to put their children in).  This way, unwed mothers can actually go out and work.  How can she work otherwise?  If a woman has a two year old at home, how is she supposed to get off welfare if working means paying money for someone to watch your kids?

Now, I don't propose a complete replacement of money stipends with childcare credits, but I do propose a complete, 100% childcare credit program.  I'd even be fine with paying Mary to watch Suzy's kids, and paying Suzy to watch Mary's kids.  At least they'd be working!  Just *something* to shake things up a little. 

 
CHIP is a bridge program designed to help working poor people get health insurance for their families.  It's for workers either too new at their job to qualify for health benefits, or don't make enough money to afford it.  It's been a successful program, encouraging people to work without worrying about losing health coverage provided by social safety nets.  It's fair to say CHIP got people off social aid, got people back to work, and reduced fraud.  If these are positives, surely EVERYONE can agree on, why did the party in power stop funding it?  
I'm not sure, I'd have to read on it. I'm assuming its a huge cost to taxayers - the money has to come from somewhere and with huge increases in premium costs and national debt etc there have to be cuts. That's a guess, I'm not sure. 

But again it seems like it would  keep them poor and dependent on Govt handouts. At some point, they'll just barely break that thresdhold of money and lose their Govt subsidy ..... why would they do that? better to stay low income and get the monthly right? Face it, that's how many people think

 
I've said for years, that the real problem is childcare.  For the LIFE of me, I don't understand why instead of paying people money so that they have a disincentive to work, we don't pay 100% child care credits.  (Or develop some sort of childcare program where people can use credits to put their children in).  This way, unwed mothers can actually go out and work.  How can she work otherwise?  If a woman has a two year old at home, how is she supposed to get off welfare if working means paying money for someone to watch your kids?
the core problem is having kids with 1 parent too - but yes I see what you're saying and I'd say again wouldn't the problem be that the single mom would need to stay under a certain earned wage to get the money ? and why would she want to make a little more than that earned wage, if she did she'd lose the credit right ?

and where does all that money come from  ?

 
Being “shackled” to a corporation making $7.25 an hour while the CEO and shareholder masters get rich off their productivity seems a lot closer to slavery.  I would just think about the terminology you are using.
you can't quit and get a higher paying job? you can't work your way up in the company? 

but being on Govt checks you can't do those things - you have to stay unemployed or low waged to keep the money coming in

 
I'm not sure, I'd have to read on it. I'm assuming its a huge cost to taxayers - the money has to come from somewhere and with huge increases in premium costs and national debt etc there have to be cuts. That's a guess, I'm not sure. 

But again it seems like it would  keep them poor and dependent on Govt handouts. At some point, they'll just barely break that thresdhold of money and lose their Govt subsidy ..... why would they do that? better to stay low income and get the monthly right? Face it, that's how many people think
Then why did congress cut taxes?  The republicans didnt seem too worried about money when they passed the tax cut.

 
I'm not sure, I'd have to read on it. I'm assuming its a huge cost to taxayers - the money has to come from somewhere and with huge increases in premium costs and national debt etc there have to be cuts. That's a guess, I'm not sure. 

But again it seems like it would  keep them poor and dependent on Govt handouts. At some point, they'll just barely break that thresdhold of money and lose their Govt subsidy ..... why would they do that? better to stay low income and get the monthly right? Face it, that's how many people think
I really, really, encourage you to spend some time learning a bit about the government budget and what qualifies as “big” or “small”.  

Our government has four big budget buckets roughly equal in size: military, social security, Medicare, and everything else.  Anyone trying to tell you CHIP is too expensive is hoping you don’t understand that. 

One of the head-scratchers about defunding CHIP is its demonstrated to be cheaper than alternatives.  It was created to be a lower-cost alternative that also carried the benefit of helping convert unemployed people into taxpayers.  The creators of it were addressing what you claim in the second paragraph.

And in terms of relative cost, CHIP is a lot cheaper than repealing the estate tax, and provides a much bigger benefit to a lot more people.  The party in power decided it was more important for the wealthy to hoard more of their wealth passing down through generations than fund programs designed to get people off government assistance and become taxpayers.

 
Is this a real number?
Usually I would say it depends on what you count as “working age” and “not working.”  However, in this case I can answer with “no, it isn’t a real number.”

The current numbers are about 40% of people between 16-64 do not participate in the labor market for a variety of reasons.  The largest group is 16-24 year olds in school.  

 
I'm not sure, I'd have to read on it. I'm assuming its a huge cost to taxayers - the money has to come from somewhere and with huge increases in premium costs and national debt etc there have to be cuts. That's a guess, I'm not sure. 

But again it seems like it would  keep them poor and dependent on Govt handouts. At some point, they'll just barely break that thresdhold of money and lose their Govt subsidy ..... why would they do that? better to stay low income and get the monthly right? Face it, that's how many people think
You are absolutely adamant in your position/opinion presenting yourself as someone who has a grasp on all the various possibilities well enough to have such adamant opinions, then you post this.  So if you don't know or aren't sure, what do you base your assumption of cost on?  I really wish you'd go out and read on these subjects with the intention of educating yourself rather than reading on them to find something to support a preconceived notion.  I am not trying to single you out, but I kind of am.  You're not the only one here that does this sort of thing and certainly not the only one in this country that does.  We have entire "news" outlets predicated on this sort of approach and I REALLY wish it would stop.  

 
I haven't read the whole article, so possibly answered within...how does this pass as constitutional?  I'm not necessarily claiming it to be unlawful, just curious if it passes as such initially and if any challenges have been brought against it?

Second, the overall idiocy of our health insurance system facilitating health care is slowly forcing me to abandon "free market" solutions in favor of single payer 
I'm about as "free market", "small government" libertarian as you get, and even I understand that single-payer is better for all.  I think the government should be a lot less-involved in a lot of things, but not healthcare.

 
Rights are not something that have to be bought and paid for are they ?
If you are a citizen of the USA, then you certainly have rights, and some of them cost money - yes.

You have a right to a prompt, fair trial by jury, as an example.  Right there in the Constitution.  Courthouses cost money to build and upkeep, payment for judges, bailiffs, court reporters, public defenders, support staff, daily jury payment, parking, not to mention the prisons that house the accused and guilty.

How about the right to vote?  Ballots, voting machines, election officials, etc. - certainly not free.  

Should we pay for our own voting machines?

 

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