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If Plaxico Burress Doesn't Shoot Himself, Are The Giants A Dynasty? (1 Viewer)

rockaction

Footballguy
Remember when the Giants won in '07-'08 and were marching for the title in '09 when Plaxico shot himself? Would the Giants of '08,'09, and '11 have been a dynasty?  

 
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Giants were steamrolling teams that season.  I believe they would have won back to back.  

After that who knows, they probably don't draft Hakeem Nicks in 2009.  Nicks put up the 2nd most receiving yards, ever, in a single playoff season in 2011 with 444.  

 
Giants were steamrolling teams that season.  I believe they would have won back to back.  

After that who knows, they probably don't draft Hakeem Nicks in 2009.  Nicks put up the 2nd most receiving yards, ever, in a single playoff season in 2011 with 444.  
True about Nicks. They were steamrolling teams that season, though. Then Burress goes down and all they see is stacked boxes. It was weird watching them. I just remember them beating the pants off of the Panthers and thinking "Super Bowl." 

 
Ha, remember when Hakeem Nicks was a stud for one season?
Remember the receiver crew from that draft? I thought the big 4 was going to be great. Percy Harvin, Maclin, Nicks, Crabtree. Then you had DHB, Britt, Wallace... Then way back in the 7th, Julian Edelman.

 
Doubt it, most dynasties have either an all-time great qb, which Eli isn't. Or so much talent on both sides of the ball and a really good quarterback, like the 90's Cowboys or the 70's Steelers. The Giants had neither. 

 
Other than the two SB seasons, Eli did not win a playoff game in any other season. The Giants have been only slightly better than a .500 team with Eli over his career. They got hot in the playoffs twice. But a chance for a dynasty? I don’t see it. 

 
Other than the two SB seasons, Eli did not win a playoff game in any other season. The Giants have been only slightly better than a .500 team with Eli over his career. They got hot in the playoffs twice. But a chance for a dynasty? I don’t see it. 
Why does Eli matter? I was asking if the Giants were a dynasty if Burress doesn't shoot himself. Three SB titles in four years seems like enough to qualify. Who cares what Eli did?  

 
Doubt it, most dynasties have either an all-time great qb, which Eli isn't. Or so much talent on both sides of the ball and a really good quarterback, like the 90's Cowboys or the 70's Steelers. The Giants had neither. 
The Giants had so much talent on the defensive side of the ball it wasn't funny. They shut down historical offensive teams and then beat them again. 

Whupped 'em, you might say.  

 
The Giants had so much talent on the defensive side of the ball it wasn't funny. They shut down historical offensive teams and then beat them again. 

Whupped 'em, you might say.  
They had a great line and had a great run in the playoffs. They weren't a dominate defense during the season or in 2011. 

 
Why does Eli matter? I was asking if the Giants were a dynasty if Burress doesn't shoot himself. Three SB titles in four years seems like enough to qualify. Who cares what Eli did?  
Why does Eli matter? He hasn’t been that great of a QB over his career. In one of the other Eli threads I linked an article that showed he actually has been below average or below replacement level over his career. 

So I don’t see the Giants winning another SB in that era even if Burress stayed on the field. 

 
Why does Eli matter? He hasn’t been that great of a QB over his career. In one of the other Eli threads I linked an article that showed he actually has been below average or below replacement level over his career. 

So I don’t see the Giants winning another SB in that era even if Burress stayed on the field. 
No, the QB doesn't matter. Eli may have been below average or below replacement. That doesn't impact a team. What I see is a team that could have won in '08, '09, and '11. In football, you'd have to consider that dynastic in the cap era. That's what I'm arguing.  

 
They had a great line and had a great run in the playoffs. They weren't a dominate defense during the season or in 2011. 
They had two great runs that led to two Super Bowls over the Patriots. That doesn't speak to organizational competence? 

 
They had two great runs that led to two Super Bowls over the Patriots. That doesn't speak to organizational competence? 
I forgot the s on runs. I was talking about both years, but I can't possibly believe that a dynasty was derailed by a slightly above average receiver. Plus everything else factored in. 

 
Simply put: If the Giants win in '09, are they dynastic? What are the requirements for a dynasty? 

And they would have won with Burress. They were a juggernaut the first eleven or twelve games.  

 
No, the QB doesn't matter. Eli may have been below average or below replacement. That doesn't impact a team. What I see is a team that could have won in '08, '09, and '11. In football, you'd have to consider that dynastic in the cap era. That's what I'm arguing.  
The hawks won back to back. Are they a dynasty?

 
I forgot the s on runs. I was talking about both years, but I can't possibly believe that a dynasty was derailed by a slightly above average receiver. Plus everything else factored in. 
I see what you're saying, but the fundamental gameplay of Kevin Gilbride was altered by Burress's absence. Teams stacked eight in the box immediately after he shot himself. It was apparent.  

 
Simply put: If the Giants win in '09, are they dynastic? What are the requirements for a dynasty? 

And they would have won with Burress. They were a juggernaut the first eleven or twelve games.  
If they won in 09 yes, but everything changes then, I don't think we see the same team in 11. Any team that wins 3 out of 4 should be considered a dynasty. 

 
The hawks won back to back. Are they a dynasty?
Blackhawks?  Or Seahawks? Not being nitpicky, just curious. I think the Seahawks lost in the SB. They're probably pretty close if they win and then win again two years later, if that's what you're asking.  

I'd say the Blackhawks are dynastic, if not a dynasty.  

 
If they won in 09 yes, but everything changes then, I don't think we see the same team in 11. Any team that wins 3 out of 4 should be considered a dynasty. 
True. I was just spitballing. Slow day here. Not trying to argue for dynastic consideration, I'm just wondering. 

And as pointed out upthread and by you, the '11 team looks much different without Burress's problems.  

 
If Burress doesn't shoot himself, they probably/likely win the SB that year. They were far and away the best team in the league before the shooting. Does that make a dynasty? Dunno, but success can often breed success.

 
It's weird. It seems like people -- not necessarily Giants fans -- that remember that team, remember how good they were before they lost Burress. While I lived in New Haven at the time and was obviously influenced by its culture, that team was the best I'd seen since the '07 Pats.  You could have had two historic dynasties operating at the same time if the number one doesn't go down for the Giants.  

Coughlin and Belichick. 

Manning and Brady. 

Strahan and Tuck and everyone else. 

And people that think this isn't thread worthy have no business on a football website. Not just saying, declaring. Plaxico's incident changed the whole complexion of the '08-'09 season, hands down.

Also, anyone remembering that route he ran on Ellis Hobbs in the '08 SB knows he was better than above average. On the right day, he was dynamic.(I edited and separated this out to make sure that msu and Anarchy don't think I'm singling them out for the above comment. I appreciate all comments other than "what, you're stupid.")  

 
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Remember the receiver crew from that draft? I thought the big 4 was going to be great. Percy Harvin, Maclin, Nicks, Crabtree. Then you had DHB, Britt, Wallace... Then way back in the 7th, Julian Edelman.
And forever to history was bostonfred's avatar changed.  

But seriously, yeah, that was a potentially great WR beset by injuries and weirdness. Crabtree was legendary in school at Tech under Leach. I can still remember some of his catches, actually. The phenomenal one at the end of the game at about the three was just breathtaking.  

Crabtree has proven to be good, as was Maclin before his walking papers came from Philly and he suffered under A. Reid and Alex Smith.  

 
If today's rules were in effect, would Plaxico have played at all that year?

"In August and September 2008, Totowa police responded to two domestic disturbance calls at the Burress residence. At both times temporary restraining orders were issued that were later dismissed by the New Jersey state court."

 
If today's rules were in effect, would Plaxico have played at all that year?

"In August and September 2008, Totowa police responded to two domestic disturbance calls at the Burress residence. At both times temporary restraining orders were issued that were later dismissed by the New Jersey state court."
Good question. Likely not. Plax was before the looming specter of the all-powerful Goodell, though. Or at least regards Goodell, what the owners want him to be.  

 
The other thing to remember is that the best team doesn't always win in the playoffs. I don't think it was a given they win the super bowl even with Burress.

 
The other thing to remember is that the best team doesn't always win in the playoffs. I don't think it was a given they win the super bowl even with Burress.
No, msudaisy26, I know. It's just that they saw stacked boxes the rest of the year without an outside threat. It's certainly never a given they win. I'm seriously just speculating about one player's removal from one team in one given year.  

Just a slow day in the SP....figured other people might remember, which some did.  

 
Remember when the Giants won in '07-'08 and were marching for the title in '09 when Plaxico shot himself? Would the Giants of '08,'09, and '11 have been a dynasty?  
Dynasty teams are good enough to be successful despite the loss of a single player.  I guess my answer is "no".

 
That 2008 team was really good. Much better than the team that won the Super Bowl in 2007.

Earth, Wind and Fire (Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward and Ahmad Bradshaw) were running all over the league.

I believe they were on their way to winning back to back Super Bowls until Plax shot himself. The probably still draft Nicks the following year since 2008 was Toomer’s last season.

I guess it’s possible they could have been a dynasty, as a Giants fan I prefer not to think about it because its depressing when I think about how good that 2008 team was.

 
That 2008 team was really good. Much better than the team that won the Super Bowl in 2007.

Earth, Wind and Fire (Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward and Ahmad Bradshaw) were running all over the league.

I believe they were on their way to winning back to back Super Bowls until Plax shot himself. The probably still draft Nicks the following year since 2008 was Toomer’s last season.

I guess it’s possible they could have been a dynasty, as a Giants fan I prefer not to think about it because its depressing when I think about how good that 2008 team was.
That's what I mainly remember from that year. How well they ran the ball. I think Ward had 150+ vs. a very good Carolina team. With Plax outside, nobody could stack the box against their strength. He was their deep outside threat, and that really hurt them when he was lost.  

 
Remember when the Giants won in '07-'08 and were marching for the title in '09 when Plaxico shot himself? Would the Giants of '08,'09, and '11 have been a dynasty?  
It definitely would have elevated Eli Manning's numbers. Burress was scoring touchdowns like a machine

 
That's what I mainly remember from that year. How well they ran the ball. I think Ward had 150+ vs. a very good Carolina team. With Plax outside, nobody could stack the box against their strength. He was their deep outside threat, and that really hurt them when he was lost.  
Jacobs & Ward both went over 1000 yards for the season.

The game that made me think they were for real that year was when the Ravens and their vaunted defense came into Giants stadium, the Giants went for over 200 yards on the ground and beat the Ravens by 20.

You are right in terms of teams not being able to stack the box because of Plax. Toomer was old and Steve Smith and Manningham didn’t scare anyone

 

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