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Drunken Cowboy

***Official 2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread*** Back to being the Bucs

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Back to making trades with less return than we would get by letting people walk after qualifying offers. The thing the Pirates have built recently on is finding good cheap bullpen arms. Now they are way overpaying for them.

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With the extension of Rivero and the moves to beef up the bullpen, I wonder if the Pirates strategy is to develop a strong bullpen and let the other pieces fall as they will.  If Polanco's swoon last year was due to an injury, they still could potentially have  a decent lineup.  Cutch wasn't going to bring in a significant haul at this stage of his career.  Cole brought up some upside players and let's remember that he didn't exactly have a great season last year.  Not overly impressed with the moves but willing to let it play out a little.

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Just a total waste of a real window of contention and these trades are the reset button. Maybe had they spent money to get key pieces over the last few years, we could trust the front office that they made these trades as baseball moves — but they didnt. 

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They're not getting another penny out of me until there are changes. They are Miami marlins light. Why have a team if you're going to keep pulling this sh@@.

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Rivero posted on twitter a clip of Jim from The Office saying "What is going ON???" in response to the Cutch trade. Right about the time they announced his extension.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/pirates-give-closer-rivero-an-extension-minutes-after-reacting-to-mccutchen-trade/

J-Hey said in an interview "If indeed the team does not expect to contend this year or next, perhaps it would be better for all involved, that I also am traded."

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/1/16/16897892/josh-harrison-pirates-andrew-mccutchen-trade

Last one out, please turn out the lights.

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On 1/16/2018 at 9:22 AM, fred_1_15301 said:

With the extension of Rivero and the moves to beef up the bullpen, I wonder if the Pirates strategy is to develop a strong bullpen and let the other pieces fall as they will.  If Polanco's swoon last year was due to an injury, they still could potentially have  a decent lineup.  Cutch wasn't going to bring in a significant haul at this stage of his career.  Cole brought up some upside players and let's remember that he didn't exactly have a great season last year.  Not overly impressed with the moves but willing to let it play out a little.

I think the problem with the Cole trade is the very low upside of the players. If you want to win you need star players. I don't think there is much chance of any of these additions turning into stars.

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4 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

I think the problem with the Cole trade is the very low upside of the players. If you want to win you need star players. I don't think there is much chance of any of these additions turning into stars.

Cole only has had one season where he performed like a star and he only has two seasons left of team control.  I agree none of the new Pirates have star potential but it's a decent return.  I have no idea if the rumored Frazier and Adams package from the Yankees was ever really on the table.

Top tier prospects haven't been moving this off-season.  Last year, Moncada, Kopech, Giolito and Lopez were all dealt.  I don't know if the changing economics of the game are causing team to over value their best prospects or if this is just a short-term phenomenon.

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1 hour ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

I think the problem with the Cole trade is the very low upside of the players. If you want to win you need star players. I don't think there is much chance of any of these additions turning into stars.

In order for a team like the Pirates (small market and cheap ### owner) to get star players, they either need to develop them or trade for prospects that will develop into stars.  The problem with the latter is that they didn’t have any true star players that could bring in top prospects.  The recent years where they did have the star players, they were competing for the playoffs.

 We are probably looking at another long stretch of mediocrity unless some of their top prospects develop into stars.  Guys like Glasnow, Cole and Taillon seem like they will never hit the potential that they once had.  Throw in Alvarez and all the other garbage players they drafted very early and that’s the life of being a Pirates fan.

Edited by fred_1_15301

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It's easy to look at past amateur drafts and see where things went wrong but Pittsburgh whiffed on a lot of high picks.  McCutchen and Cole turned out well.  Most did not.  Some of that was bad luck but they made some poor decisions in the name of signability.  

Their recent success put them at the end of the round for a few years but it looks like they'll have a better shot at top talent in upcoming years.  They went with a high ceiling/high risk HS pitcher named Shane Baz at #12 last year for whatever that's worth.

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4 hours ago, Eephus said:

It's easy to look at past amateur drafts and see where things went wrong but Pittsburgh whiffed on a lot of high picks.  McCutchen and Cole turned out well.  Most did not.  Some of that was bad luck but they made some poor decisions in the name of signability.  

Their recent success put them at the end of the round for a few years but it looks like they'll have a better shot at top talent in upcoming years.  They went with a high ceiling/high risk HS pitcher named Shane Baz at #12 last year for whatever that's worth.

I really like the 2017 draft. Jennings, Mitchel, and Uselton are all high upside guys. I think they have drafted well for the most part. Drafting for signability has not been a thing for a while. It was a huge part of why they sucked for 20 years though. I think there are a lot of good prospects in their farm system. Mitch Keller and Austin Meadows will be up soon.

I like the chances that Cole Tucker and/or Ke’Bryan Hayes really breaks out as a big prospect this year.

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5 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

In order for a team like the Pirates (small market and cheap ### owner) to get star players, they either need to develop them or trade for prospects that will develop into stars.  The problem with the latter is that they didn’t have any true star players that could bring in top prospects.  The recent years where they did have the star players, they were competing for the playoffs.

 We are probably looking at another long stretch of mediocrity unless some of their top prospects develop into stars.  Guys like Glasnow, Cole and Taillon seem like they will never hit the potential that they once had.  Throw in Alvarez and all the other garbage players they drafted very early and that’s the life of being a Pirates fan.

Cole should have been able to bring in way more than what they got. The bigger point though is if you can't get more than that, why make the trades?

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If you take away his name, and just look at his stat lines, Cole really should not have garnered a huge haul. 

Oh, and Mitch Keller is going to be a STUD. Meadows is just another guy, I think, unfortunately. 

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On 1/26/2018 at 8:11 PM, SoCalBroncoFan said:

If you take away his name, and just look at his stat lines, Cole really should not have garnered a huge haul. 

Oh, and Mitch Keller is going to be a STUD. Meadows is just another guy, I think, unfortunately. 

When is Keller’s Tommy John scheduled?

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Nova looked really sharp after loading the bases with no outs to get out of it.

Edited to add: I guess I jinxed him.

  

Edited by PIK95

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5 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

Not sure I have seen a walk-off reversed before.

I remember the Pirates walking off against the Giants a few years ago after an out call at the plate was reversed following a replay.

 

ETA:  it was on May 5, 2014 and it ended up deciding home field advantage in the NL wild card game.  Not that Madison Bumgarner cared.

Edited by Eephus
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Polanco is the key.  If he rebounds, this offense will be good.  I don’t think the pitching will hold up (rotation or bullpen). 

Edited by fred_1_15301

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17 hours ago, Timmypg said:

Who would have ever thought the Pirates would start 3-0? Detroit is bad but the offense looks better 

Two weeks ago I was out with a bunch of buddies and we were are predicting losing seasons.   I told them I thought the Pirates would come out hot but quickly cool off and finish slightly below .500  with 78 wins. 

I was the most optimistic of my friends.

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They'll go as far as their pitching will carry them.

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30 minutes ago, Eephus said:

They'll go as far as their pitching will carry them.

Then they’re in a lot of trouble 

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12 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Then they’re in a lot of trouble 

I was trying to put a positive spin on things

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Best team in baseball. Just need to add 2-3 quality starters and 4-5 bullpen arms to shore things up.

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25 minutes ago, Plorfu said:

Best team in baseball. Just need to add 2-3 quality starters and 4-5 bullpen arms to shore things up.

Maybe if Houston hits the tank this year, they can trade for Cole.  Couple that with Glasnow turning into an elite bullpen arm and you can pencil in playoffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I love about opening week.  Dreams are still alive!

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I know it is early and he is a notorious slow starter but Cutch is 1 for 16 with 0 BB and 5 Ks so far with the Giants.

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By the end of this year, that Cole trade is going to feel like a gigantic kick in the groin.  He just had one of the best games of his career and I have a feeling he’s due for a rebound year.  Oh and Morton was dominant in their home opener.  

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Yeah, Cole is going to be a monster in HOU and Musgrove is on the DL with shoulder issues. At least Moran looks solid. 

Polanco getting on base a ton early. Maybe his breakout actually happens. Taillon looked good yesterday. They're not without hope, but there are going to be weeks when their Kuhl/Williams/Brault backend starters get lit up and it's ugly. Also, I am really not sure who is good in the bullpen outside Rivero and maybe Kontos. Pitching Edgar Santana and Josh SMoker in high leverage situations is very bad. 

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1 hour ago, jfranco77 said:

Yeah, Cole is going to be a monster in HOU and Musgrove is on the DL with shoulder issues. At least Moran looks solid. 

Polanco getting on base a ton early. Maybe his breakout actually happens. Taillon looked good yesterday. They're not without hope, but there are going to be weeks when their Kuhl/Williams/Brault backend starters get lit up and it's ugly. Also, I am really not sure who is good in the bullpen outside Rivero and maybe Kontos. Pitching Edgar Santana and Josh SMoker in high leverage situations is very bad. 

Well I guess the question is does Glasnow have the mental makeup to take on any role for the club?  If he can’t be a starter, I would love for him to develop into an elite bullpen arm (someone who can bridge the gap to Rivero).  He will walk people but his stuff is absolutely filthy.  No clue what is between his ears though.  

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Umm so when do the playoffs start again?     :yawn: 

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This will likely be the first and last 5-1 stretch all year but still enjoying the ride

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Well, I've had no choice but to buy the Team MLB.TV package. Somehow, the Student ID login I used when I was getting my Masters still gave me the discount so they obviously don't validate that. Been watching them drub the Reds in the rain with Cincy's dejected announcers.

#### it. Let's go Bucs!

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21 minutes ago, Plorfu said:

Well, I've had no choice but to buy the Team MLB.TV package. Somehow, the Student ID login I used when I was getting my Masters still gave me the discount so they obviously don't validate that. Been watching them drub the Reds in the rain with Cincy's dejected announcers.

#### it. Let's go Bucs!

Cincy always owned us when we were actually a good team.  It's nice to destroy them when we're not very good.  

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Pedro just jacked a granny in the 14th against the Yanks and I was happy for him. 

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This team is actually fun to watch.  Taillon is going to be a stud this year.  

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15 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

This team is actually fun to watch.  Taillon is going to be a stud this year.  

Agree about Taillon.  I'm hoping the Pirates hitting offense keeps rolling -- I am quite surprised.

The bullpen is a little scary though...

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I was at the game today, the home opener for the Cubs. This is an impressive Pirates team. They play really hard, with a lot of focus and energy. I think they overwhelmed the Cubs with their intensity and aggression.

You could see it during BP. The Cubs sort of went through the motions, shagging flies, taking lazy cuts in the batting cage. The Pirates went through their drills and time in the cage with military precision, really going at it. Omar Moreno was hitting hard grounders at all the Pirates infielders, no joking around.

Clint Hurdle challenging a play in the very first inning, and then Josh Bell scoring from 2nd on a single, showed that the Pirates are for real.

I don't know the inside-homer reasons for why Gerritt Cole did not work out, but the only thing holding the Pirates back is that one front-line/shutdown starter to anchor the team.

As a Cubs homer, I thought Milwaukee was the biggest threat, but now no one is looking past the Pirates. 

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Cole is destined for a monster year:

A.  He’s changed his pitch mix and is relying less on his fastball and more on the slider/curveball.  Small sample size but his insane swinging strike % speaks volumes for the adjustment 

B.  He’s no longer a Pirate so doesn’t have to worry about bad juju 

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21 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Cole is destined for a monster year:

A.  He’s changed his pitch mix and is relying less on his fastball and more on the slider/curveball.  Small sample size but his insane swinging strike % speaks volumes for the adjustment 

B.  He’s no longer a Pirate so doesn’t have to worry about bad juju 

I fully expect him to win the Cy Young.

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14 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

I fully expect him to win the Cy Young.

Well he's going to have to compete with Sale, Kluber, Severino, Verlander etc so that probably isn't happening but he will be a stud.  

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On 4/11/2018 at 7:58 PM, Drunken Cowboy said:

I fully expect him to win the Cy Young.

It really is precious that Cole has transformed into the best pitcher in all of baseball immediately after leaving the Pirates.   It doesn’t even surprise me anymore.

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