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Gally

Vic Beasley

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I know there was a Beasley thread before but last post was in 2015.   Do you think he is more like his great 2016 or his blah 2017?.  It seemed like his snap counts were down but it could have been from that early season injury he didn't quite recover from.

 

Do you see him as a buy low heading into next year and that 2016 performance comes back with health or was that just a career year?

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Strictly a fantasy analysis, but I'm buying in MFL leagues on the hope that he gets reclassified from LB to DE.  

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1 hour ago, Arodin said:

Strictly a fantasy analysis, but I'm buying in MFL leagues on the hope that he gets reclassified from LB to DE.  

He stayed DE in my league as he was under contract as a DE so that didn't have any affect in my situation. 

 

I am most concerned as his snap counts seemed to be down a bit this year and hoping it was injury related and not scheme/performance related.  I am looking to buy low.  I didn't see many Falcons games so am looking for some insight as to his explosion/motor was the same and he just wasn't getting home, was his performance due to the injury, or is 2017 more likely his game rather than the career 2016.

 

Any thoughts?

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Here's some clarity, via Rotoworld:

 

The Falcons will move Vic Beasley back to defensive end in 2018.

Beasley's sack total dipped all the way from 15.5 in 2016 to 5.0 in his 2017 transition to strong-side linebacker. "I have re-assessed it," coach Dan Quinn said. "I’m going to put him full-time, all-the-time back at pass rusher. I thought it was best for the team even though some of his production would go down. His best role is doing what he does. He won’t go back to linebacker."

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10 hours ago, Wooters said:

He doesn't get nearly enough tackles to make him anymore than a DE2 in almost any format.  

Classification is the main thing. Every league I’m in has at 2 DEs otherwise it’s just extra kickers.

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13 hours ago, Wooters said:

He doesn't get nearly enough tackles to make him anymore than a DE2 in almost any format.  

This. He's a bye week cover. 

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There are some younger players to fit into the Atlana defense like Takkarist McKinley and Duke Riley, so it will be interesting how this shakes out.

Just my opinion, lots of young speed edge rushers now days that get sacks, but few tackles, ie: Yannick Ngakoue Jacksonville DE.

My league scoring rules shows very little difference Ngakoue this last season and Beasley's 2016.

Just offering some information, if your league is different from mine, please just disregard.

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2 hours ago, football fan said:

There are some younger players to fit into the Atlana defense like Takkarist McKinley and Duke Riley, so it will be interesting how this shakes out.

Just my opinion, lots of young speed edge rushers now days that get sacks, but few tackles, ie: Yannick Ngakoue Jacksonville DE.

My league scoring rules shows very little difference Ngakoue this last season and Beasley's 2016.

Just offering some information, if your league is different from mine, please just disregard.

Yeah I went back and checked and Beasley was inside the top 10 in my main league for DE scoring (points per game) in 2016. Now that was due to 2 or 3 huge games and you won’t get the consistency you’d ideally want but the reclassification should make him a bit relevant again. 

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12 hours ago, RushHour said:

Yeah I went back and checked and Beasley was inside the top 10 in my main league for DE scoring (points per game) in 2016. Now that was due to 2 or 3 huge games and you won’t get the consistency you’d ideally want but the reclassification should make him a bit relevant again. 

My league he was barely in the top twenty. I am not arguing that Beasley being relevant, I just stating that there are other options similar to him, that possibly could be cheaper.

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The funny thing is that people are going to see his 15.5 sacks in '16, and his reclassification from LB'er back to DE, and think that he is going to light the world on fire.  Fools gold.  Don't be that guy/gal.

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On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, Wooters said:

The funny thing is that people are going to see his 15.5 sacks in '16, and his reclassification from LB'er back to DE, and think that he is going to light the world on fire.  Fools gold.  Don't be that guy/gal.

So you don't think he has the talent to put up 15-ish sacks and that he is more of the 5 sack guy he was this year?   My league is big play with 8 pts/sack to 1 pt/tackle.  It gives large swings in scoring week to week but if you can pair a couple big play guys with some high tackle guys it usually gives a high enough floor to compete and when the big games come from a guy like Beasley you win going away. 

 

I just didn't watch enough Atlanta to know if Beasley is closer to the 2016 version or the 2017 version.

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Beasley isn't the problem, he's plenty talented.  The bigger issue will be philosophical.  Tak McKinley is there, and he's really the same player Beasley is.  Will they split reps?  Will Tak move to SAM, basically flipping the players' roles?  How the snaps break out will be a big factor.

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On 1/23/2018 at 11:05 AM, Gally said:

So you don't think he has the talent to put up 15-ish sacks and that he is more of the 5 sack guy he was this year?   My league is big play with 8 pts/sack to 1 pt/tackle.  It gives large swings in scoring week to week but if you can pair a couple big play guys with some high tackle guys it usually gives a high enough floor to compete and when the big games come from a guy like Beasley you win going away. 

 

I just didn't watch enough Atlanta to know if Beasley is closer to the 2016 version or the 2017 version.

No, that's not what I said.  Sure he has the talent to get 10-15 sacks from the DE position in 2018.  But with his typically non-existant tackle numbers, that doesn't make him a DE1 or even a high-end DE2 in most leagues.  

With that said, your scoring system is just silly.  8-1 ratio?  Then sure, Beasley can be a top 7 DE.  I think it's pretty obvious that my comments were geared towards the 99% of leagues with typical scoring systems which are either: (a) tackle heavy, (b) balanced or (c) slightly big play.  Your 8-1 ratio is so ridiculous that you might as well ignore tackles.  Quite frankly, I'm not sure why anyone would want to play in such a league- but to each their own.

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11 hours ago, Wooters said:

No, that's not what I said.  Sure he has the talent to get 10-15 sacks from the DE position in 2018.  But with his typically non-existant tackle numbers, that doesn't make him a DE1 or even a high-end DE2 in most leagues.  

With that said, your scoring system is just silly.  8-1 ratio?  Then sure, Beasley can be a top 7 DE.  I think it's pretty obvious that my comments were geared towards the 99% of leagues with typical scoring systems which are either: (a) tackle heavy, (b) balanced or (c) slightly big play.  Your 8-1 ratio is so ridiculous that you might as well ignore tackles.  Quite frankly, I'm not sure why anyone would want to play in such a league- but to each their own.

The scoring system actually helps balance all positions across the board.  We wanted to make elite players at every position equal so you can build your teams in multiple ways.  It has worked quite well.  For the top 20 IDP scorers there were 8 LB's, 4 DT, 4DE, 3 S, and 1 CB.  It has been difficult to come up with a scoring system that equates all positions across the board and the high sack/Int to tackle ratio has helped.  The only detriment is there are big swings in scoring from week to week (as you can imagine).  We haven't been able to figure out a good method to increase consistency while also boosting scoring enough to make high sack guys relevant.  This does add a level to the strategy of drafting since you are trying to pair consistent tackle producers with big play (inconsistent) scorers so that you are competitive every week.

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11 hours ago, Wooters said:

No, that's not what I said.  Sure he has the talent to get 10-15 sacks from the DE position in 2018.  But with his typically non-existant tackle numbers, that doesn't make him a DE1 or even a high-end DE2 in most leagues.  

 

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, Wooters said:

The funny thing is that people are going to see his 15.5 sacks in '16, and his reclassification from LB'er back to DE, and think that he is going to light the world on fire.  Fools gold.  Don't be that guy/gal.

It is kind of what you said.  You said people with think that since he is going back to DE they will see his high sacks and think he will be great and that is "fools gold".  That to me says he won't be hitting that 15 sack mark again because regardless  of scoring system a DE that gets 15 sacks will be DE1 or high end DE2

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On 1/26/2018 at 10:03 AM, Gally said:

 

It is kind of what you said.  You said people with think that since he is going back to DE they will see his high sacks and think he will be great and that is "fools gold".  That to me says he won't be hitting that 15 sack mark again because regardless  of scoring system a DE that gets 15 sacks will be DE1 or high end DE2

Sorry Gally. I thought it was obvious that being great meant being great at fantasy football, not just being a great NFL player. Getting 15 sacks doesn’t make you a great fantasy football. I mean, it should mean that, but in Beasley’s case because he does literally nothing else, he’s a JAG- unless you’re in a 8-1 ratio sack to tackle league. 

Ill br more careful next time. 

Edited by Wooters

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On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 0:49 PM, Wooters said:

Sorry Gally. I thought it was obvious that being great meant being great at fantasy football, not just being a great NFL player. Getting 15 sacks doesn’t make you a great fantasy football. I mean, it should mean that, but in Beasley’s case because he does literally nothing else, he’s a JAG- unless you’re in a 8-1 ratio sack to tackle league. 

Ill br more careful next time. 

No need to get snarky.  Just trying to have a conversation about what people can expect from Beasley.  This forum has been dwindling in participation and these kind of responses don't help in keeping them active. 

 

Looking at tackle numbers of the top sack guys they are usually in the 40's.  The season that Beasley had his 15.5 sacks he finished with 32 tackles.   Lower than some of the other DE's but not so low that having more sacks wouldn't bring him back in line with the top DE's even at 2 pts or 4 pts per sack. 

 

Beasley's 15.5 sacks is the 8th highest sack total over the last 5 years combined.  That is elite production and will help make up for the lack of tackles regardless of scoring system and I believe that getting 15 sacks will make you good for IDP performance.  I will agree that Beasley isn't as consistent a tackler as some of the other top DE's but he isn't that far behind.  If he can consistently put up about a sack a game (15.5 in his great season) he is a top 10-15 DE in any scoring system.

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On 1/29/2018 at 10:34 AM, Gally said:

No need to get snarky.  Just trying to have a conversation about what people can expect from Beasley.  This forum has been dwindling in participation and these kind of responses don't help in keeping them active. 

 

Looking at tackle numbers of the top sack guys they are usually in the 40's.  The season that Beasley had his 15.5 sacks he finished with 32 tackles.   Lower than some of the other DE's but not so low that having more sacks wouldn't bring him back in line with the top DE's even at 2 pts or 4 pts per sack. 

 

Beasley's 15.5 sacks is the 8th highest sack total over the last 5 years combined.  That is elite production and will help make up for the lack of tackles regardless of scoring system and I believe that getting 15 sacks will make you good for IDP performance.  I will agree that Beasley isn't as consistent a tackler as some of the other top DE's but he isn't that far behind.  If he can consistently put up about a sack a game (15.5 in his great season) he is a top 10-15 DE in any scoring system.

 

Not snarky man, just annoyed at repeating myself a few times.  

I'm not sure how many other ways I can say it, but your assertions are just plain wrong.  Several here, includng myself, have tried to explain the reasoning behind the reality.  If you want to heed that advice, then great. If you don't, you'll figure out what we meant next year.  

And I couldn't help but laugh at your comment that:  "if he can consistently put up about a sack a game...".  Do you know how many Hall of Fame players have "consistently" put up a sack a game?  Answer...ZERO.  None.  Regiie White comes closest at 0.85.  Active players, Demarcus Ware at 0.88.  So Beasley isn't going to get a sack a game.  His tackle numbers aren't going to hover around 40.  And he'll never ever ever be a DE1, or high end DE2 in any league other than one that gives you a crazy 8-1 sack to tackle ratio.

I'm done here. Good luck boys.

Edited by Wooters

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All I have been attempting to say through out this thread that Beasley is definitely talented enough to be a fantasy football IDP force, but I question if the opportunity is there.  McKinley  could take away a lot of sack opportunities, but we will not have a good answer to this question until after free agency and the draft.

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22 hours ago, Wooters said:

 

Not snarky man, just annoyed at repeating myself a few times.  

I'm not sure how many other ways I can say it, but your assertions are just plain wrong.  Several here, includng myself, have tried to explain the reasoning behind the reality.  If you want to heed that advice, then great. If you don't, you'll figure out what we meant next year.  

And I couldn't help but laugh at your comment that:  "if he can consistently put up about a sack a game...".  Do you know how many Hall of Fame players have "consistently" put up a sack a game?  Answer...ZERO.  None.  Regiie White comes closest at 0.85.  Active players, Demarcus Ware at 0.88.  So Beasley isn't going to get a sack a game.  His tackle numbers aren't going to hover around 40.  And he'll never ever ever be a DE1, or high end DE2 in any league other than one that gives you a crazy 8-1 sack to tackle ratio.

I'm done here. Good luck boys.

Go back to my original question...Is Beasley going to perform like his 15.5 sack season or like his 5 sack season?  Almost everyone is agreement he has the talent but not sure of the opportunity.  Your comment was

"The funny thing is that people are going to see his 15.5 sacks in '16, and his reclassification from LB'er back to DE, and think that he is going to light the world on fire.  Fools gold.  Don't be that guy/gal."

That insinuates that you don't think he will be in the 15.5 sack world.  I was not looking for tackle numbers or IDP value because I know all scoring systems differ.  I was only asking about his sack numbers.  Consensus seems to be he has the talent but the opportunity may not be there due to a diminished snap count. Your responses were just snarky and back to his tackle numbers (which was never asked).  Everybody else was helpful. 

 

I never made assertions.  You kept going back to tackle numbers which was never involved in my question so maybe you need to figure out what was being asked before answering a question that was never there. 

 

I know nobody can sustain 16 sacks a year my point was that if you put up about a sack a game in a year you will be in the top 10-15 scoring for DE's regardless of scoring system. 

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On 2/4/2018 at 11:48 AM, Wooters said:

 

Not snarky man, just annoyed at repeating myself a few times.  

I'm not sure how many other ways I can say it, but your assertions are just plain wrong.  Several here, includng myself, have tried to explain the reasoning behind the reality.  If you want to heed that advice, then great. If you don't, you'll figure out what we meant next year.  

And I couldn't help but laugh at your comment that:  "if he can consistently put up about a sack a game...".  Do you know how many Hall of Fame players have "consistently" put up a sack a game?  Answer...ZERO.  None.  Regiie White comes closest at 0.85.  Active players, Demarcus Ware at 0.88.  So Beasley isn't going to get a sack a game.  His tackle numbers aren't going to hover around 40.  And he'll never ever ever be a DE1, or high end DE2 in any league other than one that gives you a crazy 8-1 sack to tackle ratio.

I'm done here. Good luck boys.

Doubling down on being a DB, nice job.

There have been dozens of seasons with players getting 16 or more sacks.  Not just hall of famers either.  Beasley himself had 15.5 (about a sack a game, actually) just one year ago.  His "typically non-existant tackle numbers" earned him 9.4 PPG in 2016 and had he been designated a DE instead of LB, he would have been the 10th highest scoring DE in the league.  So yes, it's well within his range to hit DE1/DE2. 

Tak may take away some of his upside, he may not.  I don't know how the snap counts will be going forward.  But to be so dismissive is silly and to be such a jerk about it is something this forum doesn't need any more of.

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Two quick things:

1. Adrian Claybourn is a UFA. The Falcons DE rotation is really messy, but Claybourn had the biggest chunk.

2. Somebody researched it at some point and passrushers are better when they've got a top tier bookend. You think Ngakoue would've hit 12 sacks without Campbell and Fowler? Imagine lining up for 3rd and 8 and facing Tak on one side and Beasley on the other. They will most likely help each other out.

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Beasley has been MIA for the entire season so far - any Atlanta homers know why? Is it just a timeshare thing, nagging injury, or is he just not that good?

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1 hour ago, joker said:

Beasley has been MIA for the entire season so far - any Atlanta homers know why? Is it just a timeshare thing, nagging injury, or is he just not that good?

I would assume the immense injury decimation of this team has a lot to do with it. 

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He was graded the worst Falcons defender this last week, 57.4, he had 3 hurries, but didn't do well when in coverage per PFF Falcons twitter. he may turn it around, but I have to hold until Bosa returns

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18 minutes ago, umjaker said:

He was graded the worst Falcons defender this last week, 57.4, he had 3 hurries, but didn't do well when in coverage per PFF Falcons twitter. he may turn it around, but I have to hold until Bosa returns

I would think most DE don't do particularly well when dropping back in coverage. Do they drop him back a lot?

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I love this thread.  Chalk another win up for Wooters. 

Hey Gally, is Beasley still in your starting lineup or did you outright waive him week 4?

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1 hour ago, Wooters said:

I love this thread.  Chalk another win up for Wooters. 

Hey Gally, is Beasley still in your starting lineup or did you outright waive him week 4?

don't hurt your arm. 

Is your first name Richard by any chance?

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On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:51 AM, Wooters said:

I love this thread.  Chalk another win up for Wooters. 

Hey Gally, is Beasley still in your starting lineup or did you outright waive him week 4?

You have really terrible reading comprehension.  Go back and try again.  This thread was started to discuss Beasley to see if people thought he was closer to his 2016 performance or his 2017 performance.  I never said anything about Beasley being a can't miss stud.  I was looking for input unfortunately your delivery is piss poor so nobody will ever take you seriously.

 

You were correct that he was nothing special.  Good on you.  Your delivery leaves a lot to be desired.  No reason to be a #### about it.

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