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Evangelical support of Trump

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5 hours ago, whoknew said:

I'm not a religious man, so this is the first time I'm reading that passage. Surely it doesn't really mean that whoever is in charge of the government was put there by God and, thus, as a citizen, you should obey him or her. Right? I know that's what the words say, but surely there must be some alternate accepted meaning that Christians have come up with?

I think that the passage is meant to differentiate the Christians from the Jews.  The Jews were always looking for a political revolution and while religion and politics were hopelessly intertwined at the time, the Christian movement wasn't concerned with politics as Jesus was returning anytime now (see the end of Romans 13) so politics didn't matter.   (I'm not going to pretend that my reading is the reading of anyone else though.)

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1 hour ago, lazyike said:

I often wonder what these Evangelicals think when they read from Mathew 23:12 “Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled.”

The devil can cite scripture for his purpose.

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14 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

I think that the passage is meant to differentiate the Christians from the Jews.  The Jews were always looking for a political revolution and while religion and politics were hopelessly intertwined at the time, the Christian movement wasn't concerned with politics as Jesus was returning anytime now (see the end of Romans 13) so politics didn't matter.   (I'm not going to pretend that my reading is the reading of anyone else though.)

Also, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's" - which is a great way to get Christians to NOT rock the boat, power structure wise

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3 hours ago, apalmer said:

Immigrants? I have no idea where that is related to the Word of God.

Who are the chosen people?  The old testament is the story of those people that were left behind when most of the world's population started becoming "civilized" in the cities of the day as the fertile valleys were flooded by the end of the last ice age.  They were the immigrants  and were generally treated poorly.  Ezekiel 16:49-50 addresses one commonly known story.

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2 minutes ago, msommer said:

Also, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's" - which is a great way to get Christians to NOT rock the boat, power structure wise

Yes to a Christian what was due Caesar was those stupid little irrelevant trinkets that called him god.  Why stress over such nonsense.

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51 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

They believe with all of their hearts things that simply are not true.   It is that simple!

Are you saying that abortion is the number one issue but it is more important to not have abortion reducing contraception covered by insurance?   Because that is one of the "goods" listed a few pages earlier.  And this simply demonstrates that abortion is not the #1 issue for those that do understand.  Simple as that.   

I have posted variations of this three or four times the past few days, I will not belabor the point any longer.

Not where I am from . I hear it all the time when I discuss my disgust with Trump with people I know.....what are we supposed to do vote for someone from the Democratic Party who support killing babies? 

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On 12/31/2019 at 2:59 PM, Joe Bryant said:

For me, the combativeness seemed to pick up with Bill Clinton. But the last three years have been way more circling the wagons than anytime I can remember. 

I agree with this as a timestamp, but Clinton was target and the wording makes sit sound as if he bear the responsibility. I do not think that was you desired implication, but I think it is still important to point out. Newt Gingrich was the culprit attacking Clinton and beginning the abandoning of political norms.

 

* Mason, Lililana (2018). Uncivil Agreement. University of Chicago Press.

Rosenfeld, Sam (2017). The Polarizers. University of Chicago Press.

 Harris, Douglas B. (2013). "Let's Play Hardball". Politics to the Extreme. Palgrave Macmillan US. pp. 93–115.

Mann, Thomas; Ornstein, Norman (2016). It's Even Worse Than It Looks. Basic Books.

Levitsky, Steven; Ziblatt, Daniel. How Democracies Die. PenguinRandomhouse.com. Penguin / RandomHouse. Retrieved October 6,2018.

Hacker, Jacob; Pierson, Paul (February 14, 2017). American Amnesia. ISBN 9781451667837.

Buhl, Geoffrey W.; Frisch, Scott A.; Kelly, Sean Q. (2013). "Appropriations to the Extreme: Partisanship and the Power of the Purse". Politics to the Extreme. Palgrave Macmillan US. pp. 3–21. doi:10.1057/9781137312761_1. ISBN 9781137361424.

Dodd, Lawrence C.; Schraufnagel, Scot (2013). "Taking Incivility Seriously". Politics to the Extreme. Palgrave Macmillan US. pp. 71–91. 

 

More citations available on request

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Posted (edited)

As an aside, on CSPN right now they are having a Spelling Bee competing Politicians vs. Journalists. Its fun.

eta :nerd: 

Edited by cosjobs

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1 hour ago, McBokonon said:

Cross-posting this first video from The Lincoln Project.

It discusses the weirdness of evangelical support of this President. 

In a strange way it all makes sense. Some of those "religious leaders" are simply hucksters just like Trump. The bond they share is running cons to fleece true believers out of their cash.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

President Trump doesn’t understand why he is being impeached: 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/18/politics/trump-impeachment-team/index.html

He doesn’t understand IMO because he is amoral. He has no sense of right and wrong. This obvious fact again puts a spotlight on evangelical support of the President. 

I don't know about amoral; more of "ends justifies the means". Because he's been successful (in his view), it doesn't matter what he's done. It's the theme he keeps playing: "How can they impeach me when the economy is so good?"

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Just now, apalmer said:

I don't know about amoral; more of "ends justifies the means". Because he's been successful (in his view), it doesn't matter what he's done. It's the theme he keeps playing: "How can they impeach me when the economy is so good?"

I say he’s amoral. When have you ever heard him be opposed to anything because it was morally wrong? The only time he’s against something is when it will achieve bad results (for him); the only time he is for something is when the results are good. 

For Trump the ends don’t justify the means because the means never need to be justified. 

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22 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I say he’s amoral. When have you ever heard him be opposed to anything because it was morally wrong? The only time he’s against something is when it will achieve bad results (for him); the only time he is for something is when the results are good. 

For Trump the ends don’t justify the means because the means never need to be justified. 

You know, this clearly doesn't matter to the base (of which many evangelicals are a part). Because the end justifies the means. Judges. Abortion. End of story.
The real issue is why is there seemingly such a selective reading and understanding process going on of the gospels by the evangelicals

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Evangelical losing their mind because burger king used the word damn

Trump...nothing

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Likelihood of Don Jr. knowing anything about Scriptures is about the same as the likelihood of Nancy Pelosi praying for Trump.

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6 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

Likelihood of Don Jr. knowing anything about Scriptures is about the same as the likelihood of Nancy Pelosi praying for Trump.

Nancy Pelosi says she does pray for Trump. I believe her.

Don Jr. seems not to know much about scripture -- especially Matthew 4:6, where the devil quotes the Book of Psalms.

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30 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

This is great: "Likelihood of Nancy Pelosi praying for Trump is about the same as the likelihood of Satan running around quoting the Scriptures." -- Don Jr.

Um......... :lmao:

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1 hour ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Nancy Pelosi says she does pray for Trump. I believe her.

Don Jr. seems not to know much about scripture -- especially Matthew 4:6, where the devil quotes the Book of Psalms.

Don Jr. is engaging in psychological projection -- i.e., he is projecting his own beliefs (in this case, cynical ignorance) onto others.

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1 hour ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Nancy Pelosi says she does pray for Trump. I believe her.

Don Jr. seems not to know much about scripture -- especially Matthew 4:6, where the devil quotes the Book of Psalms.

I doubt Pelosi does either..  we all know by now religion is a game of relativism.

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13 minutes ago, matuski said:

I doubt Pelosi does either..  we all know by now religion is a game of relativism.

Are you more bothered by Pelosi or by Don Jr. here?

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14 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Are you more bothered by Pelosi or by Don Jr. here?

Neither.

I recognize the game.  Once you start playing one versus the other in religion both lose.

eta - Don Jr in general seems a bigger ###, but in this case I just see usual religion ### for tat.

Edited by matuski

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Listening to despicable remarks by President Trump at the National Prayer Breakfast today as he attacked Mitt Romney and questioned his faith.

It prompted former justice department official Matt Miller to tweet “It always cracks me up watching how Trump's brain just can't grasp religion or genuinely religious people at all. It's like watching a dog try to understand math.” 

·

He later tweeted

“On the other hand, he understands the conservative religious establishment perfectly, which says more about them than it does him”

Edited by lazyike
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10 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

This is great: "Likelihood of Nancy Pelosi praying for Trump is about the same as the likelihood of Satan running around quoting the Scriptures." -- Don Jr.

hey, Jr., you need to be careful there. As I recall, Donald Trump is the one who isn't capable of quoting the Scriptures. He's tried twice that I can remember: First was the "Two Corinthians, right?" fiasco, and the second was when he was asked what his favorite Bible verse was. After stammering around for a minute or so trying to think of a verse he could quote, the best he could come up with was an endorsement of one of the few verses specifically repudiated by Jesus "that eye for an eye thing is pretty good." 

Edited by apalmer
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12 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Nancy Pelosi says she does pray for Trump. I believe her.

Don Jr. seems not to know much about scripture -- especially Matthew 4:6, where the devil quotes the Book of Psalms.

The devil will absolutely try and twist Scripture around to fit his ends, which is why context is super important when it comes to the Bible. That passage Satan quoted(Psalm 91:12, for those keeping score) is part of a larger passage detailing how God will walk with those who put their trust in Him. Satan tried to get Jesus to test God by throwing Himself off the Temple, but since Jesus is God and knew what he was doing, He basically told him to kick rocks himself.

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Cal Thomas has hosted the National Prayer Breakfast media dinner for 30 years. He’s an Evangelical and former Vice President of the Moral Majority. He once likened negotiators of the Iran nuclear deal to holocaust deniers and 9/11 truthers and has a history of anti-LGBTQ sentiments.

Today he wrote that Trump is too divisive, doesn’t get the whole point of the National Prayer Breakfast and maybe they should cancel it until he’s gone.

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The worst part of all of this is that I don't think this is going to end here. There are a lot of people being led astray by unbiblical thinking, and it's a massive uphill battle to try and fix it.

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On 12/31/2019 at 7:02 PM, Joe Bryant said:

The one i keep going back to is Tommygunz "At some point I think we should just come to grips with the fact that Trumpism represents the views and policy preferences of white Christianity in America.    "

I don't think he does represent Christianity. BUT, I fully understand why you think that would be true. And as a non Trump voting Christian, that makes me super sad. 

Same with me. The religious vote has always been tightly aligned republican, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense right now. Even as a religious person who didn’t vote for Obama either time, if you think our current administration is led more by christian values than Obama’s, well......

 

I was hoping there would somehow be a real Republican primary, but even if it has to be in November I hope the religious right (of which I am an unashamed member) finds a time and a place to take a stand to show that they are about more than just electing whoever has R next to their name. If Trump is somehow the “more christian” candidate, then fine. But I don’t foresee that being the case from my viewpoint. 

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On 2/6/2020 at 8:33 PM, Maurile Tremblay said:

Nancy Pelosi says she does pray for Trump. I believe her.

Don Jr. seems not to know much about scripture -- especially Matthew 4:6, where the devil quotes the Book of Psalms.

Yeah, but Satan wasn’t literally “running around” when he quoted the Book of Psalms so Don Jr. was totally right.

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On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 1:42 PM, msommer said:

Also, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's" - which is a great way to get Christians to NOT rock the boat, power structure wise

I remember this as Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things which are his.  No difference, just how I remember it.  Of course, I may be remembering it inaccurately.  The Bible was never my thing, though I did have some Irish Catholic Grandmothers who indoctrinated me before I reached the age of reason, in my case at around 4 years old.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders

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56 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I remember this as Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things which are his.  No difference, just how I remember it.  Of course, I may be remembering it inaccurately.  The Bible was never my thing, though I did have some Irish Catholic Grandmothers who indoctrinated me before I reached the age of reason, in my case at around 4 years old.

You're correct, there is more to that verse.

Jesus was being questioned by the Pharisees about paying taxes to Rome.  They were trying to trap Jesus into saying that Jews should not pay taxes to Rome so they could turn him over to Governor Pilate.  Instead, Jesus replied with "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" (Matthew 22:21), after showing the denarius with Caesar's head on it.  Pay for society's debts and the earthly benefits one may get from society with society's currency.         

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1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I remember this as Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things which are his.  No difference, just how I remember it.  Of course, I may be remembering it inaccurately.  The Bible was never my thing, though I did have some Irish Catholic Grandmothers who indoctrinated me before I reached the age of reason, in my case at around 4 years old.

So, don't rock the boat. Your reward will come in the next life, however downtrodden you are. Like I said.

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I've said it again but many people seem confused by people who promote things they care about.  If the devil himself came and took power and implemented pro-life policies, protected the second amendment, tax cuts, cut entitlements, and put conservative judges on the panel they'd say he was from God.

Lots of confused folks out there.

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On 2/8/2020 at 8:05 AM, Kal El said:

The worst part of all of this is that I don't think this is going to end here. There are a lot of people being led astray by unbiblical thinking, and it's a massive uphill battle to try and fix it.

It's always been coming but Trump has truly weaponized it.  He truly is turning them into the american taliban in a lot of ways.  There is only there way or the devil - black or white.  

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On 2/8/2020 at 8:05 AM, Kal El said:

The worst part of all of this is that I don't think this is going to end here. There are a lot of people being led astray by unbiblical thinking, and it's a massive uphill battle to try and fix it.

I am not religious, but from an outsider perspective, to me the bulk of Evangelical Christianity seems to be pretty much as opposite to the teachings of Jesus as you can get. Take from the poor, give to the rich, let the sick die, hate thy neighbor etc. I am probably under-informed about the good things that they are doing, but that is essentially my snap reaction. You would find better Christians among the crowd at a Marilyn Manson concert. 

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10 hours ago, huthut said:

I am not religious, but from an outsider perspective, to me the bulk of Evangelical Christianity seems to be pretty much as opposite to the teachings of Jesus as you can get. Take from the poor, give to the rich, let the sick die, hate thy neighbor etc. I am probably under-informed about the good things that they are doing, but that is essentially my snap reaction. You would find better Christians among the crowd at a Marilyn Manson concert. 

You're probably not wrong in that observation. So many have gotten tangled up in rules, they've reverted what's supposed to be a relationship back into a religion. I've said repeatedly that God is not a Republican.

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On 1/1/2020 at 3:54 PM, lazyike said:

Not where I am from . I hear it all the time when I discuss my disgust with Trump with people I know.....what are we supposed to do vote for someone from the Democratic Party who support killing babies? 

Well for one thing they could have nominated a more moral candidate to run against Hilary

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33 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Well for one thing they could have nominated a more moral candidate to run against Hilary

John Kasich would have fit the bill nicely.  That dude lives the Christian life, imo. 

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1 hour ago, Kal El said:

You're probably not wrong in that observation. So many have gotten tangled up in rules, they've reverted what's supposed to be a relationship back into a religion. I've said repeatedly that God is not a Republican.

:goodposting: Well said

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2 hours ago, Kal El said:

I've said repeatedly that God is not a Republican.

Nor an American, nor gendered, nor a Christian.

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2 hours ago, adonis said:

Nor an American, nor gendered, nor a Christian.

Also accurate. Granted, I refer to Him as a Male, since that's how He chose to appear to us, but honestly, everything about the concept of an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent Being is hard enough to grasp as it is. Our minds literally can't comprehend the concept of infinite. Personally, I wouldn't want a god I can define easily anyway, because they would be just as messed up as I am.

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59 minutes ago, Kal El said:

 I wouldn't want a god I can define easily anyway, because they would be just as messed up as I am.

Which, sadly, is what happens when "man" tries to divine the purpose, actions, thoughts of what's described as an omniscient being incapable of being grasped by human minds.  

Yet religion in general and doctrine are human attempts to grasp the infinite.  They nearly always fall short and end up being more of a reflection of the people than of the infinite.

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1 hour ago, adonis said:

Which, sadly, is what happens when "man" tries to divine the purpose, actions, thoughts of what's described as an omniscient being incapable of being grasped by human minds.  

Yet religion in general and doctrine are human attempts to grasp the infinite.  They nearly always fall short and end up being more of a reflection of the people than of the infinite.

That's why it's always important to go back to the source. I don't trust interpretations, especially when it involves Scripture taken out of context, or if someone says, "God told me."

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Josh Marshall @joshtpm · 14m

Falwell on Virginia becoming a blue state: "They're passing all kinds of bills that are just contrary to what the majority of Virginians -- not the majority of Virginians, but most Virginians as far as land mass support."

 

 

This is such a GOP-take.  They are measuring support - not based on people, but on land mass.  Don't be shocked if this becomes an issue post-2020 election, where Trump claims victory based on land mass....

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

"Land mass support?" Good lord.

Democracy much, Jerry?

Maybe the old version where land owners had the power?

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