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Evangelical support of Trump (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter adonis
- Start date
joffer
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
So 500 years after the Reformation, evangelical preachers are doling out indulgences.
They should all congregate and elect a pope too. Pope Cleetus I, leader of the New Catholics.
They should all congregate and elect a pope too. Pope Cleetus I, leader of the New Catholics.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I’d be interested in seeing a timeline prior to him getting elected around some of his quotes and positions. I never for a minute considered voting for Trump but I honestly didn’t know anything about his views. If you had asked me in say 2015 I think I would have said he’s an idiot because he thinks vaccines cause autism and he hates Obama but that was maybe the extent of what I knew. My big problem (and still one of my major issues) was how unqualified he was (and is). Once he started with the wall nonsense and his insensitive claims about Mexicans it became more clear what he was about but I just don’t recall when that was.
Obviosuly that was definitely well before he wrapped up the nomination but my point is that I feel that how truly awful he is has been revealed over time. It doesn’t absolve anyone of anything however.
apalmer
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Forget the Trump character deficiencies for a moment (I know, I know, he'll do something in the next few minutes to make that impossible), this Perkins character has political beliefs that suck.
Saw that article where Trump got a "mulligan," and immediately went into a rage. How dare you claim to speak for anyone but himself, Tony Perkins! If Trump is in fact a Christian(I personally doubt that, but it's not up to me), we are called to correct his behavior, not excuse it! You have no authority, no credibility, and I am extremely thankful I do not attend your church! Do not presume to lecture me or anyone else about morality! You have no say!
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Did Obama get a mulligan for having a Muslim name?
joffer
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Here's the interview in case anyone wants to see it.
- Lemon really embarrasses Graham. - Graham: "He's not the pastor of our country".
Maybe Graham missed the part of the Bible that says leaders are held to a higher standard, the implication being that adultery with a porn star while your latest wife takes care of your 4-month-old kid doesn't get mulliganed away! As Christians, we're supposed to be Christ-like, but what a sad state we are in when the "leaders" can't even lead.
I'd be okay with the Christian spirit of forgiveness here if Trump admitted wrongdoing, asked for forgiveness, and sincerely vowed to do better in the future. In that case, let the first stone be cast by whoever hasn't paid hush money to a porn star.
But if Trump is going to continue to dissemble, Christian leaders should call him out on it rather than selling him special dispensation in return for ... whatever it is that Evangelicals think Trump actually does for them.
The problem is that so many self-titled evangelicals have mated their religion and their political beliefs, when Jesus advocated no such thing. He preached that earthly rulers were there because of the overall plan God has(it's a long story and I don't understand a lot of it, but it's not my job to try), but a lot of evangelicals seem to be treating the Republican party as an extension of the church.
And it is apparent that Pope Francis is no fan of Trump but really hasn't gone on the attack against him but that is not something he would or should do.
True statement. If many of them studied Him and His word, they'd find that foreigners are not to be mistreated, the poor and widows are to be cared for(not by the government, though), he advocated paying taxes(render to Caesar), among other things.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Evangelicals are fake and it was Trump that exposed the totality of it. All their teaching and preaching got voided.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
It seems like you can say "I prayed on it" and then justify anything.
Zow
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Was going to Hipple a prior post and say essentially this, but obviously MT has already said it better.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Oof...crappy aliases. proninja is good peopleGot divorced. Didn't handle it well. Crawled in a metaphorical hole and didn't do a damn thing except drink for a month or so about a decade ago. Sadly, during that time period one of my customers at work (mortgage lender) was a FBG. I let him down. The FBG I let down and his wife have graciously accepted my sincere and profuse apologies in person, for which I am very thankful. They are great people.
Ten years later some guy with an alias thinks that handling the most painful experience of my life poorly is something that it's cool to mock me for anonymously.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Just curious.......what did the old ladies think about Hillary? Or Obama for that matter?
Bozeman Bruiser
Footballguy
I guess it is similar to blacks and Mexicans supporting Democrats.
The Democrat party founded the KKK.
The Democrat party was against civil rights.
The Democrat party was for a border wall and against illegal immigration just 5 years ago.
Or gays supporting Democrats.
The Democrat party takes millions of dollars from Muslim nations who kill people for being gay.
People do unexpected things sometimes?
And lol at Adonis calling Trump the least moral anything. Guess he slept through Billy Bob shoving a cigar up the ###### of his barely legal intern (that is rape in 2018). Or Obama looking the other way while Hezbollah smuggled cocaine into American cities. Or his ATF smuggled guns (muh guns!) to cartel members in Mexico. Or he dropped a billion dollars cash into Iran.
TDS is strong with this one.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Yes, we know racist anti-civil rights southern conservatives used to be within the Dem party. That's not the same Dem party you have today.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
When the only ammo you have left is "The Democrats founded the KKK", then you may as well just throw in "Africans had slaves too" and "Jews killed Jews too" while you're at it.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Yeah, I mean I don’t feel compelled to defend anyone who happens to peripherally share similar doctrinal beliefs. I’m responsible for what’s been placed in my hand. My sphere of influence is pretty small, I stay in my lane.
I operate within several communities of faith. In my hometown in west Michigan, they’re very conservative & it’s a republican stronghold. What an understatement! The last time my county voted for a democratic candidate was George McClellan in 1864.
Many of them voted for Trump based solely on the single issue of abortion - or abstained because he’s too disgusting. They have the largest concentration of Christian Reformed/Reformed Church of America churches anywhere in the country. I spent 5 weeks there in 2016 & found no more than a handful of Trumpkins (out of a congregation of 2700.)
[ASIDE - I don’t personally know a single person who self-identifies as Evangelical; its laughably outdated, but I guess it’s an easy label to lump people into if you’re in the media.]
Here in NYC I attend a Pentecostal megachurch which draws around 13-14K each week across 6 services. The lead pastor has 750K social media followers & speaks out often regarding social justice issues. One the three founders of BLM is in our congregation, we had a special service to conduct a Race Relations Q&A panel following the rash of police shootings in June/July 2016, and the day after the election, it felt like September 12, 2001. I don’t know percentages of R v D within that church but it’s probably not dissimilar to my former voting precinct in Hell’s Kitchen (Hillary - 1180, Trump - 20; citywide it was roughly 2:1.)
So the questions @adonis pose simply feels N/A to me.
FWIW, I volunteered for Bernie phone banks several times & sent him $15 a week for about 5 months. First time I have ever gotten personally involved in any way in a political campaign. I lost interest over the summer but was at my polling station at 6am on November 8 along with about 40 other #imwithher types. Having lived in the same city as DJT for two decade it was incomprehensible anyone thought he was qualified to be PotUS.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
That's them right there.
They just choose not to own the name anymore because too much undeniable stupidity comes from evangelicals. They even go so far as to lie and say its no longer a religious argument they are making -- because they know that basis is fail.
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msommer
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Sex Mulligan is the name of my sex tape.
Mr. Know-It-All
Footballguy
I am sure they were against Obama - maybe I am stereotyping old conservative church ladies - but didn't here much about Hillary. There were a lot of the younger ladies in our church that actually backed Hillary because they were so appalled by idea of a Trump presidency.[scooter] said:
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Joe Summer
Footballguy
"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
Damn hippie!
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Think Bozer will read the info and educate himself on the topic?
apalmer
Footballguy
Well, yeah, but everything the Devil has done so far is in the past--some if it is centuries old. If he would continue to do it, well, then the evangelicals would have to really think about it. Besides, at least then we'd see a change of background music from "You Can't Always Get What You Want" to "Sympathy For The Devil".
roadkill1292
Footballguy
We may as well move on (well, not the joke making part) trying to shame Trump supporters by his amoral actions. They've clearly come to terms with that. They also have to live with that when Oprah is elected president and has Dave Chappelle's baby out of wedlock.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
This is actually an issue that I have thought about a lot.
The Bible clearly tells us:
1. to love our neighbors, implying both the person next door and people in other countries.
2. help the poor, widows, and orphans
3. organizations to help with this, but is mostly through the church
4. instances of the government helping the poor (Joseph handing out food for Egypt
But the Bible is silent on democracy and our role in democracy. Probably because democracies did not exist back then.
My personal belief is we should be trying to love others and help the poor. And since we have the right to vote for our government, we should vote to have our government do these. And if I worked in government (say as an elected official), I would be promoting the government helping others. That is probably a far more liberal view than most in my church would believe.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's even simpler than this. Bottom line is, if we are all doing what we are suppose to, there is no need for the government to have to do it. Of course there is also the reality that Jesus would be considered really liberal in today's political climate. It's always interesting to get conversation started around this topic with "conservative" friends. You can see the wheels turning in their heads trying to reconcile that.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Tony Perkins is a scumbag and doesn't speak for me.
Signed, a white evangelical who believes with all his heart that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.
@Marvelous your sentiment is not wrong. There are micro and macro policy considerations but at the end of the day, on the ground in the face of a person in need, we should love and help without hesitation. The Good Samaritan wasn't a lesson in picking up hitchhikers and making them soup, and far too many of my tribe miss that point completely.
Signed, a white evangelical who believes with all his heart that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.
@Marvelous your sentiment is not wrong. There are micro and macro policy considerations but at the end of the day, on the ground in the face of a person in need, we should love and help without hesitation. The Good Samaritan wasn't a lesson in picking up hitchhikers and making them soup, and far too many of my tribe miss that point completely.
apalmer
Footballguy
What we need is one, just one, nationally recognized Christian authority to stand up and reject those who compromise their religion for political purposes. There are way too many "Christians" who just shrug and say "Hey, who am I to disagree with Tony Perkins and Franklin Graham, if they say Trump is good?
mr roboto
Footballguy
See here’s the thing. It is a religious movement. It has clearly defined theology and a hermeneutic that is at least consistent. There are tenants of Evangelical theology that are distinct from, say, Catholic theology or mainline liberal theology.
Unfortunately it is highly political as well. Which is weird cause the particular theological tenants that make Evangelicalism distinct have no express political elements.
IOW evangelicalism shouldn’t be political.
timschochet
Footballguy
But he does speak for a lot of people.
Tomy Perkins and Franklin Graham aren’t the problem IMO. They’re only trying to come up with ways to reasonably justify the views of their followers (and failing). They’re not creating those views, and if they attempted to distance themselves from them, they would become pariahs and another spokesman would take their place.
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