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USA Shootings (6 Viewers)

KCitons said:
Will it make large differences, maybe not. Will it make some difference, yes.

Why would you want to someone that is a convicted felon to have easy access to a firearm? 
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they don't have easy access and if they're still a threat to society why are they out and about ?

I don't want them to have guns - in fact its illegal for them to have guns, isn't that enough? that we have laws that stop them from having guns ?

 
Snorkelson said:
This is nonsense. Every day, almost all of them are used correctly? I bet less than 5% are used daily
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sure 

they're not being used incorrectly are they? they're not making people violent and causing people to go shoot up or kill right ?

law abiding gun owners are NOT THE PROBLEM ..... lets not pass any more laws that target them, please

 
KCitons said:
I've said that unbridled freedom is like leaving a 3 year old alone to decide what he wants to eat for breakfast.
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as for gun ownership its NOT unbridled

there are hundreds of laws on guns from the way they're built, to what is and isn't allowed, to age limits to buy, to restrictions on use etc etc

 
timschochet said:
I might have to reassess my opinion of KCiton’s posts and whether or not it makes sense to respond to them. In the other thread on this subject he just wrote that the commercial by the Sandy Hook parents will cause kids to commit suicide, and that active shooter training might be more damaging than the active shooters themselves because of all the fear it causes. 

Yes he actually wrote that. I think for now I’m done responding to him. 
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How can we possibly go on  with our day when you aren't lecturing another poster constantly? Please change your mind. I so look forward to your righteous arrogant posts to posters you look down on. 

 
timschochet said:
I might have to reassess my opinion of KCiton’s posts and whether or not it makes sense to respond to them. In the other thread on this subject he just wrote that the commercial by the Sandy Hook parents will cause kids to commit suicide, and that active shooter training might be more damaging than the active shooters themselves because of all the fear it causes. 

Yes he actually wrote that. I think for now I’m done responding to him. 
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No, he didn’t actually write that. 

 
KCitons said:
Teen suicide is on the rise. What's the cause?
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blame whatever they're using to kill themselves - that's the liberal view isn't it ? don't blame the teen's, don't blame choice, don't blame influences around them .... blame the instruments used to commit suicide

right guys? 

 
Stealthycat said:
talk about inconsistency !

ok - why is it "gun" violence .... but not "knife", "fist", "bat", "airplane", "car", "alcohol" etc violence? 

please - explain that to me, I'd love to know
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What does any of that have to do with your post claiming people blame guns for suicide? 

 
stay focused here

people blame "guns" because they say gun violence - anti-gun people want heavy restrictions, bans, buy backs and even changing the constitution

so lets stay consistent

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/18/us/new-york-teen-fatally-stabbed-video/index.html

this was caused by knife violence, right? we need to pass laws on knives, right ?

or .... is the core problem the violence? and more so than that ... what's wrong with people anymore that don't want to help/stop violence?  

""Kids stood here and didn't help Khaseen. They would rather video this event. They videoed his death instead of helping him," he said."

there is a problem alright ... its not an inanimate object, its the people :(   isn't it ?

 
No, IMO that is you assigning something to people's posts that aren't there.  I don't see people blaming a gun for some of these issues - it's not talking to them, it's not firing on it's own, or whatever nonsense your post implies.    

If I say that guns needs to be addressed it's not because I blame a gun, it's because I think when people decide to be violent, it's provides an immediate danger/lethality/effectiveness that other weapons you try to post about don't.  I think the same reason you choose to defend yourself with a gun is the same reason people choose to use it for killing others - it has a blend of ease of use, accessibilty, lethality, etc. that other weapons don't.  So in that sense, the weapon matters and you know it which is why you have dodged questions about why you defend your house with gun and not bats, poison, and bombs.  

I think I have been consistent and pretty patient about those points.  And I have also been consistent about saying that we do need to address the people too, so don't bother with that post.  

 
timschochet said:
With regard to Beto, I also keep hearing the media and some politicians use the phrase "mandatory buy backs", and claiming that this is analogous to gun seizures. I'm not in favor of either, but they're not the same. You could have mandatory buy backs, and if somebody fails to do it, they pay a penalty (akin to the Affordable Care Act, for instance.)
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I will say it again; legally we should treat them like we already treat automatic weapons.  You wouldn't have a "mandatory buyback", you would have mandatory licensing, registration, and taxation, with a buy back option if they don't want to go through that process.  And you use the licensing and weapons tax proceeds to fund the buy back.  

 
Stealthycat said:
stay focused here

people blame "guns" because they say gun violence - anti-gun people want heavy restrictions, bans, buy backs and even changing the constitution

so lets stay consistent

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/18/us/new-york-teen-fatally-stabbed-video/index.html

this was caused by knife violence, right? we need to pass laws on knives, right ?

or .... is the core problem the violence? and more so than that ... what's wrong with people anymore that don't want to help/stop violence?  

""Kids stood here and didn't help Khaseen. They would rather video this event. They videoed his death instead of helping him," he said."

there is a problem alright ... its not an inanimate object, its the people :(   isn't it ?
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Nirvana fallacy.   

 
KarmaPolice said:
I don't see people blaming a gun for some of these issues
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so why call it "gun" violence? that makes zero sense ... unless we're calling all violence in specifics. Do we agree on that ?

KarmaPolice said:
If I say that guns needs to be addressed it's not because I blame a gun, it's because I think when people decide to be violent, it's provides an immediate danger/lethality/effectiveness that other weapons you try to post about don't.  I think the same reason you choose to defend yourself with a gun is the same reason people choose to use it for killing others - it has a blend of ease of use, accessibilty, lethality, etc. that other weapons don't.  So in that sense, the weapon matters and you know it which is why you have dodged questions about why you defend your house with gun and not bats, poison, and bombs. 
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ok now we're getting somewhere !

of the 100% violence that uses guns, what % uses semi-auto rifles to commit their crimes? 

the answer is around 2% isn't it ? and in fact, fists/knives are used to kill just as many each year as semi-auto rifles SO ... what conclusion can we draw knowing that?  Immediately .... a knife/fish/hand is as easy to get as a semi-auto rifle. Do we agree ? Ease and accessibility and lethality isn't part of the equation when we see violence in so many ways. 

now tell me again ... why is the liberal left so hell bent on banning scary looking semi-auto weapons ? I know, I know ... violent people have used them. I get that ... but I also fully know they'll use semi-auto handguns, shotguns etc or blackmarket rifles etc. the core problem is what? not the gun ... the violent people

I cannot easily defend myself against someone with a bat when they come into my house with a gun can I?   You are right - I want to be superior in firepower if I am backed into a corner and my life is danger or my families. I have a right to do that.  

 
I dont have the energy to respond to those points again.  

I got to the point where he switched from guns to semi-auto rifles even though that was not part of the discussion and couldn't do it.  

 
Stealthycat said:
blame whatever they're using to kill themselves - that's the liberal view isn't it ? don't blame the teen's, don't blame choice, don't blame influences around them .... blame the instruments used to commit suicide

right guys? 
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straw man. 

I'm still waiting for a post where you don't lie or rely on a logical fallacy.

 
Stealthycat said:
so why call it "gun" violence? that makes zero sense ... unless we're calling all violence in specifics. Do we agree on that ?

ok now we're getting somewhere !

of the 100% violence that uses guns, what % uses semi-auto rifles to commit their crimes? 

the answer is around 2% isn't it ? and in fact, fists/knives are used to kill just as many each year as semi-auto rifles SO ... what conclusion can we draw knowing that?  Immediately .... a knife/fish/hand is as easy to get as a semi-auto rifle. Do we agree ? Ease and accessibility and lethality isn't part of the equation when we see violence in so many ways. 

now tell me again ... why is the liberal left so hell bent on banning scary looking semi-auto weapons ? I know, I know ... violent people have used them. I get that ... but I also fully know they'll use semi-auto handguns, shotguns etc or blackmarket rifles etc. the core problem is what? not the gun ... the violent people

I cannot easily defend myself against someone with a bat when they come into my house with a gun can I?   You are right - I want to be superior in firepower if I am backed into a corner and my life is danger or my families. I have a right to do that.  
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nirvana fallacy.

 
-fish- said:
straw man. 

I'm still waiting for a post where you don't lie or rely on a logical fallacy.
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First it was "quit posting lies". Now it's "don't post a fallacy".

Why don't you just cut to the chase and say "don't post anything that I disagree with".

 
My favorite argument so far might be that knives and fists cause more deaths than weapons designed to kill, but accessibility plays no factor. 

 
Dickies said:
My favorite argument so far might be that knives and fists cause more deaths than weapons designed to kill, but accessibility plays no factor. 
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I like the one where law abiding citizens turn into terrorist guerrillas because it might become more difficult to purchase their weapon of choice. 

Wolverines!

 
I'll post this here as well. We wouldn't want only one side of the conversation represented. 

Colt suspends production of AR15

Part of the reason is that people are buying ghost guns or parts to make ghost guns. With the possibility of mandatory gun buybacks, why buy a fully assembled AR15 with a documented serial number when you can buy an 80% complete receiver and build a ghost gun that is untraceable? 

Colt may not be able to sell their complete gun for a price point that is appealing to buyers. They are considered a top tier manufacturer. Don't confuse this with a decrease in the number of AR15's that will be sold. Other manufacturers will fill the void. 

 
All I know is that...TOTALLY HYPOTHETICALLY...if I frequented (and compulsively posted to)  a messageboard  where the only person that agreed with me was some paranoid, Neo-Confederate, gun-fetishist...I might take some time out for self-reflection.

 
McJose said:
All I know is that...TOTALLY HYPOTHETICALLY...if I frequented (and compulsively posted to)  a messageboard  where the only person that agreed with me was some paranoid, Neo-Confederate, gun-fetishist...I might take some time out for self-reflection.
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Seems extreme.  

 
McJose said:
All I know is that...TOTALLY HYPOTHETICALLY...if I frequented (and compulsively posted to)  a messageboard  where the only person that agreed with me was some paranoid, Neo-Confederate, gun-fetishist...I might take some time out for self-reflection.
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Not sure who you're talking about, could be anyone. 

But, just to be clear, you frequent the same message board. Don't mistake the echo chamber majority as being correct all the time. It's just a lack of opposing viewpoint.

I think that may be why many of the posters here are angry all the time. You surround yourselves with like minded individuals and then are shocked when you see that the real world doesn't align with what you all agreed to here. 

Also, a thinly veiled attempt to call someone (which most will assume is SC) a racist, is not being excellent. When you don't like the way the adult discussion is proceeding, you move to personal attacks. It really shows a lack of emotional intelligence on your part. And quite frankly, I would expect more from someone that teaches our future. 

BTW - message board is two words. 

 
KCitons said:
First it was "quit posting lies". Now it's "don't post a fallacy".

Why don't you just cut to the chase and say "don't post anything that I disagree with".
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I think there are certain words/key phrases that he has on a flash card and throws them around whenever he doesn't want to discuss things.

I've seen it consistently from -fish- ..... but no one else

 
Dickies said:
My favorite argument so far might be that knives and fists cause more deaths than weapons designed to kill, but accessibility plays no factor. 
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that fact does blow holes in the "hell yes we're going to take the AR15" chant Beto started doesn't it ?

almost like .... deaths don't matter, violence doesn't matter ..... just get those semi-auto rifles banned, THAT is what matters and truth it ? it wouldn't make any difference at all really 

 
-fish- said:
Colt suspending production of AR15 for civilian market because the market is flooded.  
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Colt hasn't been run well in years .... but there is a element of truth to the market being flooded. They are very popular semi-auto rifles that are less expensive than Colt and people buy those other options. 

Like Toyota discontinuing the FJ Cruiser .... other SUV's drove them to do that. 

 
McJose said:
All I know is that...TOTALLY HYPOTHETICALLY...if I frequented (and compulsively posted to)  a messageboard  where the only person that agreed with me was some paranoid, Neo-Confederate, gun-fetishist...I might take some time out for self-reflection.
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who the heck is that person ? you're not name calling ME are you ? you don't know me, at all ..... surely you wouldn't drop to character attacks on a forum ?

 
Notice that #1 ... the woman was right. #2 the liberal crowd tried to bully and harass her into silence. #3 she had a gun on her hip ... nobody was worried at all. Why ?

A Colorado woman confronted Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke Thursday on his controversial proposal to go after high-powered weapons through a mandatory buyback program.

"I am here to say: Hell, no, you’re not," Lauren Boebert told O'Rourke, passionately defending her rights under the Second Amendment.

"I have four children, I am 5-foot-0, 100 pounds, I cannot really defend myself with a fist. ... I want to know how you're going to legislate that because a criminal breaks the law, so all you're going to do is restrict law-abiding citizens, like myself."

According to the Denver Post, 32-year-old Boebert drove three hours from the town of Rifle to the event and is the owner of a restaurant where the staff carries firearms. As she spoke, a handgun was holstered at her side.

Many in the crowd tried to shout over Boebert as she spoke, but O'Rourke intervened, calling on the audience to be "respectful" and let her speak.

 
Stealthycat said:
Notice that #1 ... the woman was right. #2 the liberal crowd tried to bully and harass her into silence. #3 she had a gun on her hip ... nobody was worried at all. Why ?

[...]

According to the Denver Post, 32-year-old Boebert drove three hours from the town of Rifle to the event and is the owner of a restaurant where the staff carries firearms. As she spoke, a handgun was holstered at her side.
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Anytime someone tries to heckle a speaker at a political rally the partisan crowd will always try to shout them down (I have seen that at Trump rallies, haven't you?).

And she is from the town of Rifle.   :lol:   You can't make this stuff up.

 
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squistion said:
Anytime someone tries to heckle a speaker at a political rally the partisan crowd will always try to shout them down (I have seen that at Trump rallies, haven't you?).

And she is from the town of Rifle.   :lol:   You can't make this stuff up.
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my point was, she was armed and was confronted and she didn't kill a bunch of people ... that's not what law abiding gun owners do. 

Maybe rifle ... I dunno. I've been there/by there dozens of times, I lived in Glenwood Springs for 6 months once. 

 
Stealthycat said:
my point was, she was armed and was confronted and she didn't kill a bunch of people ... that's not what law abiding gun owners do. 

Maybe rifle ... I dunno. I've been there/by there dozens of times, I lived in Glenwood Springs for 6 months once. 
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You understand she had secret service surrounding her, right?  Nobody was “yay, this woman has a gun.  now we’re all safe!”

gun nuts gonna be gun nutty

 
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I watched the final scene of Pulp Fiction recently, and because of this thread I couldn't help but think while watching Jules and Vincent, "hey, look... two good guys with guns". 

 
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