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USA Shootings (9 Viewers)

Stealthycat said:
its not legal to kill people - we have laws against it

for every person killed with a gun this week, how many were beaten to death? choked to death? killed with a knife or car? how many overdosed on illegal or legal drugs ? died from elective surgeries? 

media glorifies violence and death when guns are used for political agenda
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1.  do you know the answer to your question?

2.  why are you starting with the position that it's not legal to kill, but are including examples of people dying during legal or elective means?

 
KarmaPolice said:
1.  do you know the answer to your question?

2.  why are you starting with the position that it's not legal to kill, but are including examples of people dying during legal or elective means?
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the answer is some to many .... nobody is concerned with all those dead people so you just don't see it on the news and its not used for political agenda so, ....  :(

the problem is the exceptionall small % of people who want to hurt others

today 99.999% of gun owners did nothing wrong 

 
Stealthycat said:
the answer is some to many .... nobody is concerned with all those dead people so you just don't see it on the news and its not used for political agenda so, ....  :(

the problem is the exceptionall small % of people who want to hurt others

today 99.999% of gun owners did nothing wrong 
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So you cant answer either question.  Looks like you are also posting these questions for a political agenda as well.  

 
KCitons said:
Nobody is changing their stance. 
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Such a bad post.  You have changed your opinion on this matter and love pointing out that fact.  I have posted about changing my position on this topic too, as have others.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Not trying to change a stance, just want him to answer a direct question. 
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it was somewhat rhetorical in nature and you know that

we know what the media feeds us - all the things that happen the media doesn't give us we don't know about - we are slaves to information and that pipe is controlled in many ways by political agenda

I'm telling you, if the news flooded every night people being stabbed withing 3 months people would be asking why we don't have strong knife control laws

they don't care about it right now - flood the media ? then they care because its what in front of their faces

do you agree ?

 
KarmaPolice said:
True, which is why I thought you were talking about the thread in general. 
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Which I was. Yet your response was:

KarmaPolice said:
Such a bad post.  You have changed your opinion on this matter and love pointing out that fact.  I have posted about changing my position on this topic too, as have others.  
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And

KarmaPolice said:
Not trying to change a stance, just want him to answer a direct question. 
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????

 You made it personal, not me. 

 
Ok, if you were talking about this thread in general and nobody changing their minds, then yes - it was a bad post, especially coming from you who has talked about their mind being changed on the topic.  

If you were talking about me and SC griping back and forth then it's probably a little more true.  

 
Stealthycat said:
it was somewhat rhetorical in nature and you know that

we know what the media feeds us - all the things that happen the media doesn't give us we don't know about - we are slaves to information and that pipe is controlled in many ways by political agenda

I'm telling you, if the news flooded every night people being stabbed withing 3 months people would be asking why we don't have strong knife control laws

they don't care about it right now - flood the media ? then they care because its what in front of their faces

do you agree ?
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You aren't living in the 40s and dependent on the one local paper giving you info.  You aren't a slave to anything.  It's been mentioned a few times in here, and I have seen it in multiple threads now where somebody linked and talked about that media bias chart.  There is plenty of ways to get info without or with very little  Right/Left lean, and that doesn't even cover books, podcasts, etc..   I don't have much sympathy if somebody gripes about political content in news, is shown that chart, and still uses Daily Kos or Fox News as their main news source.   They are then the problem.  

I do agree that there can be a big influence both positive and negative by the news we consume.  I think doing the above is a big step to correcting a bit of that.  In the long run, these news sources are about getting eyeballs, clicks, and ad revenue.  We have a lot more say in it than you seem to be presenting - people can stop going to those places, stop linking them here/Facebook/Twitter so people click on them and get even more traffic, etc.   They want to make money - if we click mostly on fluff and b.s,  fluff and b.s. is what we will get.   

Yes, I will say that you can get a skewed perspective about the frequency of something happening if that is the only thing that you see and consume - hence the importance of the above,  the importance of people being able to read and digest information well, and the importance of having honest debate.  I think all 3 of those are really lacking in this country which is a huge problem.  

Not sure I would go so far as to say people will be calling for knife bans if they see stabbings every night, but I get your point.  

 
you do realize many people still get ABC, NBC and CBS as their primary news right ? 25% - 30% of the nation don't have computer access still. How many liberals REALLY do go to conservative sites and how many conservatives REALLY go to liberal sites ?

I've seen so many here say Foxnews isn't a news source and/or CNN isn't either

people focus on what they hear/see, and often don't even question it. Its pathetically sad :(    I've been guilty of it too I might add

 
Stealthycat said:
you do realize many people still get ABC, NBC and CBS as their primary news right ? 25% - 30% of the nation don't have computer access still. How many liberals REALLY do go to conservative sites and how many conservatives REALLY go to liberal sites ?

I've seen so many here say Foxnews isn't a news source and/or CNN isn't either

people focus on what they hear/see, and often don't even question it. Its pathetically sad :(    I've been guilty of it too I might add
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If you look at that chart - the 3 you listed are in the top middle in the Neutral - Fact reporting box, so I am not sure what your point is here.  I don't think those are the sources people are arguing about around here - it's mostly CNN, Fox etc, and the likelihood that somebody on a certain side of the aisle is using those outlets for their news.  

Point taken on the internet thing, but last I saw it was about 10% of the country doesn't have internet/computer, but a good portion of that was the elderly and/or people who chose not to have it.  Also does that factor in somebody that might not have a computer but has a smart phone?  

I don't know the answer to the other question, but my guess is way too few try to seek out neutral sites or try to go to different sites.  I guess my response is:  is this really a problem, and depending on the sites used, do we really want that?   I mean what's better - somebody using  3-4 outlets in the middle or somebody using  Fox News and Info Wars, but also going over to Daily Kos to seek out a liberal point of view?  

Just saying that for the vast majority of people it takes minimal effort to find decent news, and it's not all biased in the same way or to the extreme that people seem to like to make it out to be.  

 
Stealthycat said:
you do realize many people still get ABC, NBC and CBS as their primary news right ? 25% - 30% of the nation don't have computer access still. How many liberals REALLY do go to conservative sites and how many conservatives REALLY go to liberal sites ?

I've seen so many here say Foxnews isn't a news source and/or CNN isn't either

people focus on what they hear/see, and often don't even question it. Its pathetically sad :(    I've been guilty of it too I might add
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Smart phone ownership is over 80%. Most young people don't get their news from the major networks. It's from FB, YouTube, Twitter and Instagram. What are FoxNews and MSNBC viewership? In the low millions. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
I don't know the answer to the other question, but my guess is way too few try to seek out neutral sites or try to go to different sites.  I guess my response is:  is this really a problem, and depending on the sites used, do we really want that?   I mean what's better - somebody using  3-4 outlets in the middle or somebody using  Fox News and Info Wars, but also going over to Daily Kos to seek out a liberal point of view?  

Just saying that for the vast majority of people it takes minimal effort to find decent news, and it's not all biased in the same way or to the extreme that people seem to like to make it out to be.  
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we really don't know, we can only guess

I'll say that few of the liberals I know click Fox News and few of the conservatives I know click CNN - most are very set in their ways 

another thing on this side topic is data mining. Its amazing how much information will pop up for you when you click on certain sites. I bought an expensive silk lingerie set recently and for the next week I was bombarded with high end lingerie advertisements and pop ups. 

if I'd purchased a gun, I'd get gun advertisements. I donated to the Save the Redwoods League a few weeks back and again, bombarded with ad's, especially facebook. 

my point is - we are in a world now that sometimes we GET information sent to us as well and don't even ask for it ! 

 
Stealthycat said:
we really don't know, we can only guess

I'll say that few of the liberals I know click Fox News and few of the conservatives I know click CNN - most are very set in their ways 
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Again, I'd rather neither of those sources were used.  It would be better if liberals and conservatives used the top middle of the chart.  

 
Stealthycat said:
we really don't know, we can only guess

I'll say that few of the liberals I know click Fox News and few of the conservatives I know click CNN - most are very set in their ways 

another thing on this side topic is data mining. Its amazing how much information will pop up for you when you click on certain sites. I bought an expensive silk lingerie set recently and for the next week I was bombarded with high end lingerie advertisements and pop ups. 

if I'd purchased a gun, I'd get gun advertisements. I donated to the Save the Redwoods League a few weeks back and again, bombarded with ad's, especially facebook. 

my point is - we are in a world now that sometimes we GET information sent to us as well and don't even ask for it ! 
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What a forthright admission.  Does it make you feel pretty?

I see KarmaPolice beat me to it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
https://www.sportsmensalliance.org/news/georgia-legislation-bans-common-hunting-clay-bird-shooting-guns/?fbclid=IwAR2IlNTdXhq36v_AnjL4vsVuFu8F8ePhcta47cWSiiGZS5IvRZ62SLRC9gk

State Senator Donzella James, (D-Atlanta), has pre-filed legislation that would ban the possession of semi-automatic firearms. The prohibitions in Senate Bill 281 would even ban common semi-automatic shotguns used for bird hunting and trap shooting. Any person convicted under this new law “shall be punished by imprisonment for a period of 5 years.”  SB 281 has yet to be assigned to a committee

what the ..... left has said they'd NOT do this ?  

 
KarmaPolice said:
One Senator is "the left"? 
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No. "The left" is what many think is the group of people that are overextending gun control laws. 

But, many of those people are not actually "the left". They are actually in the middle. However those people are not going to stand against any overextending gun control laws created by Democratic lawmakers. Even though they assured gun owners that they didn't want to ban guns or certain types of guns. 

It's exactly the same when someone in the middle doesn't take a stand against the lack of laws created or passed by Republican lawmakers. I can want common sense laws. But, I don't see a ban on all semi automatic weapons as being common sense. 

Should we both throw the baby out with the bathwater? Or should we find common ground and hold both sides (including our own) to that common ground?

 
It’s been nearly two years since my older daughter and I participated in the March for Our Lives protest. That was an amazing day. There were huge crowds all over the country. Where I was, in Huntington Beach, thought to be a conservative bastion, you could barely move. There were so much energy in the air, and so many young people were involved. The feeling was that anything was possible. 

The specific purpose of that protest was to change federal laws on gun control- not state or local laws, but federal laws, as the only way to truly make a difference. That’s why it was a national protest. We had the support of nearly 80% of the country, still do. (To put this in perspective, 80% of the country doesn’t support anything short of war or Presidential approval after a calamity- its an astounding figure.) 

Nearly two years have gone by and nothing has happened. There’s been no change to federal laws. Nothing has even been considered. There’s been plenty of shootings in between. After El Paso President Trump said some changes would be considered- remember? And nothing. The House has passed some bills and all of them have been blocked by McConnell- not considered, not debated, not voted upon- just blocked. 

How much longer are we going to put up with this? 

 
timschochet said:
It’s been nearly two years since my older daughter and I participated in the March for Our Lives protest. That was an amazing day. There were huge crowds all over the country. Where I was, in Huntington Beach, thought to be a conservative bastion, you could barely move. There were so much energy in the air, and so many young people were involved. The feeling was that anything was possible. 

The specific purpose of that protest was to change federal laws on gun control- not state or local laws, but federal laws, as the only way to truly make a difference. That’s why it was a national protest. We had the support of nearly 80% of the country, still do. (To put this in perspective, 80% of the country doesn’t support anything short of war or Presidential approval after a calamity- its an astounding figure.) 

Nearly two years have gone by and nothing has happened. There’s been no change to federal laws. Nothing has even been considered. There’s been plenty of shootings in between. After El Paso President Trump said some changes would be considered- remember? And nothing. The House has passed some bills and all of them have been blocked by McConnell- not considered, not debated, not voted upon- just blocked. 

How much longer are we going to put up with this? 
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As long as the Senate (and probably the POTUS) is GOP controlled. 

Tim, I'm curious how you feel about the proposed law to ban all semi automatic weapons by Senator James? Do you feel this would be overextending the common sense gun laws that your marched for and that 80% of the county agrees with?

 
KCitons said:
As long as the Senate (and probably the POTUS) is GOP controlled. 

Tim, I'm curious how you feel about the proposed law to ban all semi automatic weapons by Senator James? Do you feel this would be overextending the common sense gun laws that your marched for and that 80% of the county agrees with?
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Yes. I’m not in favor. 

But I would warn you that these sorts of proposals are a direct result of Republicans refusing to accept common sense gun laws: it hardens the attitude on the other side and makes it more extreme. 

 
timschochet said:
Yes. I’m not in favor. 

But I would warn you that these sorts of proposals are a direct result of Republicans refusing to accept common sense gun laws: it hardens the attitude on the other side and makes it more extreme. 
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The reason doesn't matter. If the GOP controlled senate doesn't handle the impeachment properly, it doesn't justify actions by Dem lawmakers to make over extending laws. Right is right. 

You state that you are not in favor of the proposed law. Yet, in your above post, you spoke about the march and the lack of new federal laws. It would give the impression that you wouldn't be concerned enough to take a stand. Or perhaps march or physically protest against it, should the same law be proposed in your state. 

Isn't that the same thing that people here say about Trump supporters? By doing nothing when the see a wrong, it seems as though they are condoning the action.

 
KCitons said:
The reason doesn't matter. If the GOP controlled senate doesn't handle the impeachment properly, it doesn't justify actions by Dem lawmakers to make over extending laws. Right is right. 

You state that you are not in favor of the proposed law. Yet, in your above post, you spoke about the march and the lack of new federal laws. It would give the impression that you wouldn't be concerned enough to take a stand. Or perhaps march or physically protest against it, should the same law be proposed in your state. 

Isn't that the same thing that people here say about Trump supporters? By doing nothing when the see a wrong, it seems as though they are condoning the action.
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It’s not the same because that law has absolutely no chance of passage. If it did maybe I would consider getting involved. But it’s just a politician trying to make a name for himself. I don’t care. 

The difference between myself and Trump supporters, in this regard, is that unlike this foolish politician Trump is actually doing real damage to the country, to our allies, etc. in that case, indifference really is condoning bad behavior. 

 
timschochet said:
It’s not the same because that law has absolutely no chance of passage. If it did maybe I would consider getting involved. But it’s just a politician trying to make a name for himself. I don’t care. 

The difference between myself and Trump supporters, in this regard, is that unlike this foolish politician Trump is actually doing real damage to the country, to our allies, etc. in that case, indifference really is condoning bad behavior. 
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Sorry, but this sounds like "do as I say, not as I do". 

Gun regulation that you want (universal background checks or assault weapons bans) also appear to have no chance of passing. Why? Because of the GOP controlled Senate and White House. Are you 100% certain, if the Dems controlled all 3 branches, that they wouldn't pass an over extending law? You've already said:

timschochet said:
Yes. I’m not in favor. 

But I would warn you that these sorts of proposals are a direct result of Republicans refusing to accept common sense gun laws: it hardens the attitude on the other side and makes it more extreme. 
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I don't disagree with your assessment. I warned about this issue over a year ago. Around the same time that I said that NRA would lose power as other anti-gun lobbying groups grew. But, you use it as an excuse. The GOP could blame the Dems for not creating a viable solution to the immigration issue to address the Southern border. Therefor, they took an overreaching approach to a solution that they felt was necessary. 

The pendulum swings further and further. Not out of necessity, but out of spite. 

 
KCitons said:
Sorry, but this sounds like "do as I say, not as I do". 

Gun regulation that you want (universal background checks or assault weapons bans) also appear to have no chance of passing. Why? Because of the GOP controlled Senate and White House. Are you 100% certain, if the Dems controlled all 3 branches, that they wouldn't pass an over extending law? You've already said:

I don't disagree with your assessment. I warned about this issue over a year ago. Around the same time that I said that NRA would lose power as other anti-gun lobbying groups grew. But, you use it as an excuse. The GOP could blame the Dems for not creating a viable solution to the immigration issue to address the Southern border. Therefor, they took an overreaching approach to a solution that they felt was necessary. 

The pendulum swings further and further. Not out of necessity, but out of spite. 
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Again the difference is that the GOP solution to the border is not meaningless. It affects real people. This proposed law doesn’t because it has no chance at passage. 

 
timschochet said:
Again the difference is that the GOP solution to the border is not meaningless. It affects real people. This proposed law doesn’t because it has no chance at passage. 
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You don't now this for certain. Especially "no chance". I heard people say the same thing a few years ago about Trump being elected POTUS. And those people were experts. With all due respect, you're not an expert in this arena. Therefore, your "no chance" carries no more weight than my "it's possible". 

Regardless, you won't be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube once it's out. 

 
CBS News Dallas reporting that at least 3 members of their church drew their firearms and shot the suspect.  

 
Stealthycat said:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-zealand-assault-weapon-ban-mosque-attack-collection

50,000 turned in

but

1.5 million guns exist in New Zealand

I say this now - in 3 years and 5 years, people will look back and see that there is no fewer killings and no less violence. This ban will make no difference except legal law abiding people will be shackled more in what they can own, shoot, hunt with and defend themselves with

criminals win here  :(
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Guns vs assault weapons.

We know shotguns and pistols dont work the same as the things they removed.

 
Stealthycat said:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-zealand-assault-weapon-ban-mosque-attack-collection

50,000 turned in

but

1.5 million guns exist in New Zealand

I say this now - in 3 years and 5 years, people will look back and see that there is no fewer killings and no less violence. This ban will make no difference except legal law abiding people will be shackled more in what they can own, shoot, hunt with and defend themselves with

criminals win here  :(
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The idea is long-term, for future generations. Nobody expects results overnight, which is effectively what 3-5 years is.

 
msommer said:
You know, the best and easiest way to get no results? Do nothing. As some people on these boards are advocating 
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Do nothing? There may be one (1) person that has suggested doing nothing. Everyone else appears to want, at least, some basic changes. Regardless of whether you are wanting universal background checks or all guns banned, it appears that both are at the mercy of a Senate that doesn't want to address any of it. Not sure what else can be done?

It is interesting that you choose to concentrate your efforts on the single outlier. Seems like it's not the best use of your resources.  :shrug:

 
Choke said:
Its tremendous that he did not have an assault rifle/machine-gun. Phenomenally better outcome for everyone involved.

And having a former officer of the law who has likely been thoroughly vetted and trained during his life, as an officer on hand, was a tremendous boon.
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And fortunate that nobody shot an innocent person by mistake.

 
msommer said:
You know, the best and easiest way to get no results? Do nothing. As some people on these boards are advocating 
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I don't think many people advocate for do nothing.  Poorly planned solutions lead to poor outcomes.  We should make sure when we make a law, it's effective and has little impact on the rights of law abiding citizens.  

I don't agree with "hurry up and do SOMETHING."  Let's get it right.  It's a tremendous undertaking on both sides of the coin. 

 
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