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USA Shootings

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On 10/30/2019 at 7:45 AM, timschochet said:

The formula for the National Rifle Association after each horrific mass shooting has been: wait. Be patient. Oppose all quick legislation. Eventually the news will move on, and there will be no gun control. 

This strategy has been nearly 100% successful over the last two decades, and it was successful this time around as well. Remember the urgency on this issue from just a few weeks ago? Now you hear absolutely nothing about it, as intended.

There is no reason to believe that it won’t work again after the next mass shooting as well. 

On Election day Nov 5., in the NRA's home state of Virginia, voters elected anti-gun candidates into both the state senate and house of delegates. The gunsensemajority outspent the NRA 8-1 and flipped their own state on them.

We need more of this nationwide. 

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Our first priority should be to investigate the person who called 911

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32 minutes ago, Dickies said:

Our first priority should be to investigate the person who called 911

Lol I was just about to post this. Why don't we know the name of that person? What are they hiding?

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GOP Senator blocks Dem's effort to push gun bill amid California shooting:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/14/politics/chris-murphy-cindy-hyde-smith-gun-background-check-bill-california-shooting-trnd/index.html

This is really starting to piss me off. We have got to get these Republicans out of there, or nothing is ever going to happen on this issue.

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On 11/14/2019 at 12:45 PM, timschochet said:

GOP Senator blocks Dem's effort to push gun bill amid California shooting:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/14/politics/chris-murphy-cindy-hyde-smith-gun-background-check-bill-california-shooting-trnd/index.html

This is really starting to piss me off. We have got to get these Republicans out of there, or nothing is ever going to happen on this issue.

These people are scum of the earth.

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5 hours ago, EYLive said:

These people are scum of the earth.

Scum of the Earth. 

 

California with the next best thing to Mexico National gun laws and still some semi white kid shoots up his school. 

 

Scum of the Earth these people for not totally disarming all allwhite people. 

 

Can’t wait for the totally natural demographic change America is experiencing to bring Mexico’s gun laws Natiowide and the safety and security from gun violence Mexicans have. 

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the CA shooting ... no security at the school ?

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Another shooting in CA. Cue the usual talking points

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And another mass shooting at a Walmart.  I believe in the parking lot this time.   This one in Duncan Oklahoma.  Three people dead already

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Note to tourists: 

Going to a Walmart can be dangerous

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I assume we are going to hear all the gun lovers telling people that since we have had a shooting near a WalMart that they should put back all of the guns and ammo back in to solve the entire problem

 Also looking forward to them wearing what the shooter wore in order to "own the libs"

 

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9 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I assume we are going to hear all the gun lovers telling people that since we have had a shooting near a WalMart that they should put back all of the guns and ammo back in to solve the entire problem

 Also looking forward to them wearing what the shooter wore in order to "own the libs"

 

No reason to wait for the argument when you can begin without the other side.

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, who can blame you from learning from history. 

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders

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"Ghost gun" with no serial number?  He had to have help, right? 

 

https://news.yahoo.com/teen-used-ghost-gun-california-171408301.html

Quote

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The teenager who shot five classmates, killing two, at a Southern California high school used an unregistered “ghost gun,” Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva said Thursday.

Villanueva told media outlets Thursday that 16-year-old Nathaniel Tennosuke Berhow’s .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol was assembled from gun parts and did not have a serial number.

Berhow pulled the gun from his backpack on Nov. 14— his birthday — in an open-air quad at Saugus High School in the Los Angeles suburb of Santa Clarita and in 16 seconds shot five students at random. At one point, the gun jammed but he quickly cleared it and continued shooting.

Berhow counted his rounds, Villanueva has said, saving the last bullet for himself.

Sheriff’s Lt. Brandon Dean of the homicide bureau said in a statement that authorities do not know who assembled the pistol or bought its components.

The sheriff said Berhow’s motive remains a mystery, even after investigators searched his home and interviewed 45 people. Berhow’s mother — who packed him corndogs, grapes and homemade cookies for lunch that morning — had no idea what was coming, Villanueva said.

Authorities said Berhow had shown no signs of violence and didn’t appear to be linked to any ideology or terrorist group.

The sheriff’s department is working with federal authorities to unlock Berhow’s cellphone, Villanueva said.

Berhow’s father was an avid hunter who died two years ago. He had six registered guns in the family’s home but they were seized in 2016.

Officials found several unregistered firearms in the home after the shooting and are working to determine where those and the weapon used at the high school came from.

Authorities have identified the dead as 15-year-old Gracie Anne Muehlberger and 14-year-old Dominic Blackwell.

 

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He obviously had to buy/obtain the gun somewhere.  If that constitutes help then, yes, someone helped him.

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1 hour ago, eoMMan said:

"Ghost gun" with no serial number?  He had to have help, right? 

 

https://news.yahoo.com/teen-used-ghost-gun-california-171408301.html

 

If he had his parents credit card info and information, he may not have needed much help. He could have ordered the parts online, including an 80% complete ghost gun that does not require him to be a certain age for purchase. Since it's 80% complete it is not considered a firearm. It would require milling to complete the last 20%. But, this is not a difficult thing to accomplish. 

I've been saying for some time that we need to address ghost guns and 80% complete guns. I linked an article awhile ago about the large percentage of ghost guns that are being confiscated in California (I believe it was San Diego). 

Do a google search for 80% guns and see how cheap and easy it is to obtain parts. The one thing that is still difficult to obtain under age is ammo. 

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Soooooo... now background checks are useless. Great.

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So the guy on the London Bridge kills two people with a knife. How many people does he kill with an AR-15 before he’s stopped? 20? 30? More? 

But of course he didn’t have an AR-15 because in England you can’t own one...

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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

So the guy on the London Bridge kills two people with a knife. How many people does he kill with an AR-15 before he’s stopped? 20? 30? More? 

But of course he didn’t have an AR-15 because in England you can’t own one...

He also could have killed 20 or 30 people with a handgun. But, in England, he couldn't own one of those either. In fact, he could have killed more than 2 people with a shotgun. Which is legal to own in England. But, this terrorist would't have been able to acquire a shotgun because he was a known threat. And would have been denied during the background check. Ultimately, he used the most lethal weapon available to him. 

Quote

Khan had been convicted in 2012 for his part in an al-Qaeda-inspired plot to blow up the London Stock Exchange. He was originally given a 16-year prison term but was released early “on license,” meaning he had to meet certain conditions or face being locked up again.

 I guess he didn't meet those conditions. If I was a family member of the victims, I would want answers as to why they released a known terrorist. Much like the U.S., the UK has difficulty utilizing the laws they have on the books to protect people from violence.

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London Bridge attacker had prior conviction for terror

Quote

Khan was known to the authorities, having been convicted for terrorism offences in 2012. He was released from prison on licence in December 2018, Met Police Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu said.

As part of his release conditions, Khan had to take part in the government's desistance and disengagement programme - the purpose of which is the rehabilitation of people who have been involved in terrorism.

The Parole Board said it had no involvement in the 28-year-old's release, saying he "appears to have been released automatically on licence (as required by law)".

The Times reported that Khan's release came after he agreed to wear an electronic tag and have his movements monitored.

After leaving prison he had moved into a Stafford property on the "approved premises" list.

UK Gun laws

Quote

Rifles in the UK

According to UK law, a ‘rifle’ is defined as a firearm with a barrel which is longer than 30cm (12 in) and a length longer than 60cm (24 in) that does not fall under the classification of a long-barrelled revolver or a pistol. Single-shot, bolt-action, lever-action and revolver rifles are legal in the UK, given you have a licence for it. Meanwhile, self-loading or pump-action rifles are only allowed in .22 rimfire calibre.

Pistols and Handgun Laws in the UK

UK law defines a ‘pistol’ as a firearm with a barrel shorter than 30 cm (12 in) or a total length of less than 60 cm (24 in). In terms of a pistol, only muzzle-loading pistols are legal. All other types of pistol are prohibited in Britain, with the exception of such pistols used for humane dispatch of injured animals and a number of (inactive) historical firearms and collectors’ items.

More specific models of blank-firing starting pistol which are deemed to be readily convertible to fire live ammunition are also banned. Pistols that have been used for sporting purposes have been banned since 1997.

Shotgun Laws in the UK

In the UK, single, double and tripled-barrelled shotguns as well as those which have a lever action, pump-action, semiautomatic and fixed magazine capacity of no more than three cartridges are legal with a valid Shotgun certificate and meeting the basic safety requirements for firearm possession in the UK. Types of shotgun ammunition, such a solid slug, can only be bought following the granting of a Firearm Certificate (FAC).

According to UK law, there is no actual limit on the number of gun or the total amount of ammunition that a Shotgun Certificate (SGC) holder can possess at any one time. You must be aware though, that each shotgun must be recorded on the certificates.

How to achieve a Shotgun Certificate

Quote

What happens next to my shotgun certificate application?

If your application passes the first stage, you will get a visit from a police officer at your home. They will talk to you about your reasons to get a shotgun certificate and the proposed safety arrangements you have made.  Make sure you have a secure gun cabinet in place which can be inspected and make sure it adheres to all safety regulations. This will speed up your certificate application.

If you are asked why you wish to own a shotgun, all you need say is you wish to take part in shooting sports.

If the police officer is satisfied, they will report this to the Chief Office of Police and your shotgun licence will be granted.

If your security was installed and the officer inspected it on his visit, the certificate can be posted to you. If your security has not been installed, your licence will be hand delivered by a police officer who will hand you your certificate once he is satisfied your security has been installed correctly.

Just guessing here, but I would think that getting a shotgun certificate might be a little problematic for a convicted terrorist on parole.

Edited by msommer

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53 minutes ago, msommer said:

London Bridge attacker had prior conviction for terror

UK Gun laws

How to achieve a Shotgun Certificate

Just guessing here, but I would think that getting a shotgun certificate might be a little problematic for a convicted terrorist on parole.

 

1 hour ago, KCitons said:

He also could have killed 20 or 30 people with a handgun. But, in England, he couldn't own one of those either. In fact, he could have killed more than 2 people with a shotgun. Which is legal to own in England. But, this terrorist would't have been able to acquire a shotgun because he was a known threat. And would have been denied during the background check. Ultimately, he used the most lethal weapon available to him. 

 I guess he didn't meet those conditions. If I was a family member of the victims, I would want answers as to why they released a known terrorist. Much like the U.S., the UK has difficulty utilizing the laws they have on the books to protect people from violence.

 

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9 hours ago, timschochet said:

So the guy on the London Bridge kills two people with a knife. How many people does he kill with an AR-15 before he’s stopped? 20? 30? More? 

But of course he didn’t have an AR-15 because in England you can’t own one...

Good point. Consistent with the fact that 73% of homicides in the USA are gun-related, compared to  3% in the UK.

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On 11/21/2019 at 5:03 PM, EYLive said:

Soooooo... now background checks are useless. Great.

 

did you think people would stop being violent because of a law saying you needed a background check ?

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

He also could have killed 20 or 30 people with a handgun. But, in England, he couldn't own one of those either. In fact, he could have killed more than 2 people with a shotgun. Which is legal to own in England. But, this terrorist would't have been able to acquire a shotgun because he was a known threat. And would have been denied during the background check. Ultimately, he used the most lethal weapon available to him. 

actually no, he could have used a vehicle to drive over people or he could have been a serial killer doing a person here and there in the middle of the night ..... what he did was literally terrorism, striking fear into people and the core problem again was the person - radical Islamic terrorist right ?

violent people are the problem, the 99.99% who are not violent shouldn't have to pay the cost of freedoms in order to try and reign in the 0.01% ....  

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1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

Good point. Consistent with the fact that 73% of homicides in the USA are gun-related, compared to  3% in the UK.

but there is still violence in the UK isn't there ?

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

Where does one acquire a narwhal tusk?

From the wall of a fish stand, obviously

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3 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

Yes, but the USA has about 5 times the homicide rate due largely to guns. To Tim's point, terrorism involving guns is more lethal, even compared to vehicles and explosives: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gun-terrorism-is-the-deadliest-kind/

no, not due to guns

due to violent and the people doing violent things 

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42 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

So the theory is that we as a society is 5x more violent than the UK? 

Perhaps. 

Just look at sports. Their futbal doesn't involve beating each other until their brains no longer work. I'd say our football is 5x more violent than theirs.

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US man killed by own booby trap

Quote

A 65-year-old American man who rigged his home with a booby trap to keep out intruders has been killed by the device.

Ronald Cyr called police in the town of Van Buren in the state of Maine to say he had been shot.

Police found a door had been designed to fire a handgun should anyone attempt to enter. Mr Cyr was taken to hospital but died of his injuries.

It is not uncommon for home-owners to install such traps - but it is illegal.

Police in Van Buren, which borders the Canadian province of New Brunswick, said they responded to a 911 call in the early evening of Thanksgiving, last Thursday, from a man who said he had been shot.

"Following an extensive investigation that lasted into the early morning... it was determined that Mr Cyr had been shot as the result of the unintentional discharge of one of his homemade devices," the police department said in a Facebook post.

"Regretfully, Mr Cyr succumbed to the injuries he sustained from the gunshot."

It is not known how he managed to set off the device.

- "Terrible thing to live in fear" - Brooks Hatlen, The Shawshanks Redemption (Steven King)

IBT the "wouldn't have happened if the guy had been armed"

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11 People shot in French Quarter on Canal Street, NOLA

Quote

Police in New Orleans say there have been 11 victims of a shooting incident in the city's French Quarter tourist hub.

US media quoted one officer as saying two people were in critical condition. No fatalities have been reported.

The incident took place on Canal St between Bourbon and Chartres streets at about 03:20 local time (09:20 GMT).

Police said on their Twitter feed that "one suspect had been apprehended near the scene".

But it was unclear whether the person was involved.

There were no other details and the police would only say that investigations were ongoing.

The victims have all been taken to hospital.

Local media quoted police Superintendent Shaun Ferguson as saying officers on the 700 block of Canal Street at the time believed that they were being fired upon.

The French Quarter has been hosting holidaymakers marking the weekend after Thanksgiving.

One has to wonder whether anyone tried to trigger anyone else on purpose, like Don Jr wanted

Edited by msommer

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22 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

So the theory is that we as a society is 5x more violent than the UK? 

yes I wouldn't doubt it - there are reasons rural Kansas has fewer murders than Chicago southside 

some nations are more violent - and it has nothing to do with what available weapons there are

 

 

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look at who's doing these crimes - terrorists, gangs, domestic violence ............. those will not go away unless they're targeted and attacked HARD

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

look at who's doing these crimes - terrorists, gangs, domestic violence ............. those will not go away unless they're targeted and attacked HARD

Isn't over 50% of gun deaths are self inflicted in America?

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4 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

look at who's doing these crimes - terrorists, gangs, domestic violence ............. those will not go away unless they're targeted and attacked HARD

These things exist all over the world. Hope this helps.

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44 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

These things exist all over the world. Hope this helps.

sure, but in some places its far far worse

why? because the core problem is the PEOPLE .......... you can flood the safest country in the world with fully automatic rifles and the violence wouldn't change. You can take away most guns and knives and in places with violence (like the UK) guess what? Still the same amount of violence.

you'd think eventually the core problem would be focused on huh ?

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On 12/1/2019 at 3:23 PM, Stealthycat said:

yes I wouldn't doubt it - there are reasons rural Kansas has fewer murders than Chicago southside 

some nations are more violent - and it has nothing to do with what available weapons there are

 

 

They have less people?

 

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

They have less people?

More guns?

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3 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

They have less people?

 

maybe they have better people ?

 

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6 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

maybe they have better people ?

 

People from Kansas are better than people from southside of Chicago?

 

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