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randall146

USA Shootings

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3 minutes ago, KCitons said:

If a "crazy" person (I know some here don't like that term) wants to kill people, will removing guns change those desires?

I'm not even arguing the pros/cons of the 2nd Amendment. I'm concentrating on the core of the problem. The people doing the shooting.

I am not disagreeing at all with you here.  I am just trying to reduce the ease of carrying out evil acts.

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2 minutes ago, miapug said:

I am not disagreeing at all with you here.  I am just trying to reduce the ease of carrying out evil acts.

 This is an evil act. No gun was used. 

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Two toddlers died in Chicago early Thursday after police said a woman stabbed her father, left one of the children in a bathtub and then jumped from an 11th-floor apartment with the other child.

This article states:

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The troubled young mum previously attempted suicide over the summer and prosecutors said she was taking medication for an unspecified mood disorder.

 

This isn't a murder out of hate. It's mental disorder that needed more attention. You can ban knives, bathtubs and tall buildings. But, the problem still remains. 

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

 This is an evil act. No gun was used. 

This article states:

 

This isn't a murder out of hate. It's mental disorder that needed more attention. You can ban knives, bathtubs and tall buildings. But, the problem still remains. 

Understood.  However, nobody is walking into a crowded shopping center and killing 40 people with a knife.

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Just now, miapug said:

Understood.  However, nobody is walking into a crowded shopping center and killing 40 people with a knife.

There's a big difference between 3 and 40.

What is the threshold that would make you take notice if people were killed with something other than a gun?

What is the number of that are killed by a gun that you are trying to get it down to?

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20 hours ago, jm192 said:

Well, after they've shot up everyone in the church, the police will arrive and disarm them.  And then that particular wacko will never harm anyone again.

no, I mean take fully auto weapons, so the violent people won't use them and the violent people use semi-auto ... take those, and violent people will use pump and lever action, take those, and violent people use single shot and shotguns, take those, and violent people use knives, take those and 

 

well, you get my point ... 

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20 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

The virginia tech shooter is the exception not the rule. 

An AR15 isnt the choice just because. It is the choice because of how effective it is. 

Look at the list of shootings. Tell me how many times an AR15 was used and nobody died. 

Now to compare to handguns. 

the top mass shootings IIRC are like 60% with handguns, and the ones with AR15's also included handguns

a weapon is only as effective as the person shooting and actually AR15's were designed in many ways to wound people - they're small caliber (the common .556 nato)  and not big bullets, you know that right? 

 

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8 hours ago, miapug said:

My goal with guns is to limit the damage that can be done to the public and believe the pros of this outweighs the cons of infringing on Americans rights to bear arms.

because you wouldn't give up anything - but you'd demand literally tens of millions of American's to give up something to literally impact what, 200-300 incidents of violent people using semi-auto weapons annually ?

or ... we could focus on getting these violent people out of society and the tens of millions of guns owners wouldn't be impacted at all

 

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11 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

a magazine fed shotgun is on my list ... the drum fed would have lots of failures I'd think 

alternating buckshot and saboted slug shots would be fantastic home defense, bear protection rounds, wild hog hunting ...... and God help us if violent people figure out how deadly semi-auto shotguns are in close quarters 

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21 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

because you wouldn't give up anything - but you'd demand literally tens of millions of American's to give up something to literally impact what, 200-300 incidents of violent people using semi-auto weapons annually ?

or ... we could focus on getting these violent people out of society and the tens of millions of guns owners wouldn't be impacted at all

 

You have a point here.  I have no desire to own a gun and perhaps don't understand why it would be such a big deal to ban assault rifles.  What is your solution to stop or limit the mass shootings?  How can we identify these crazy people?  Do you agree better background checks are needed at a minimum?

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20 minutes ago, miapug said:

You have a point here.  I have no desire to own a gun and perhaps don't understand why it would be such a big deal to ban assault rifles.  What is your solution to stop or limit the mass shootings?  How can we identify these crazy people?  Do you agree better background checks are needed at a minimum?

most of the mass shooters have known mental issues - most violent people who kill others have criminal histories or drug histories. Right ? 

https://time.com/5757243/texas-church-shooter-motive/

 

why was this guy walking around society to begin with? yes, I know its not politically correct thing to talk/think/advocate bringing back insane asylums, but these people .... they're dangers to themselves and to others and suggesting banning guns/certain type of guns from 70 million people to stop the few hundred crazies that mass shoot every year? I think that's crazy and a complete failure of an idea. I know people would say its infringing on rights but when you're a threat to yourself and others? that's why I am ok with red flag laws IF DONE RIGHT ........... violent people/mentally ill people just cannot be allowed to roam society hurting others. 

I'd truly crack down on drugs too - I'm so sick of our drug crisis, its existed since I was a kid, there is no "war on drugs" :(

We could venture into whole new realms of how to get the above done ........... but I fully believe that in any other examples, nobody would support removing things from 70 million people in hopes of stopped a few hundred. 

of the 12,000 +/- violent acts that use guns to kill every year, only a few hundred are semi-auto rifles. Almost all of them are handguns. This focusing on semi-auto rifles is ... well, crazy

 

I'll add this - since schools starting arming themselves, school shootings have went WAY down too.

 

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Interesting article about gun suicides in the US - some has already been mentioned in this thread but there are interesting comparisons made about how other countries have had a suicide problem and partially solved it

The silent epidemic of America's problem with guns

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Part of the problem with guns is that they are by far the most fatal means. There are three statistics which together paint a stark picture of the role of firearms in American suicides: about 85% of people who use a gun will die; about 95% of people who use another means will survive; and about 90% of those who survive will not go on to try again.

UK:

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History tells us that reducing access to certain means of suicide can have a dramatic effect on suicide rates. In the early 20th Century, the UK began heating domestic ovens with coal gas, which contained lethal levels of carbon monoxide. Suicide rates spiked, particularly among women, and by the 1950s more than half of all suicides in the UK — about the same proportion as firearm suicides in the US today — involved a coal gas oven. Then in 1958 the government began, incidentally, to replace coal gas with a cleaner natural gas which was virtually free of carbon monoxide, and by the early 1970s gas oven suicides fell to zero and the overall national suicide rate fell by a third. The so-called "coal gas story" became a touchstone for suicide prevention experts worldwide.

Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Israel, more UK:

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There are other examples. In the early 1990s, Sri Lanka had one of the highest suicide rates in the world, driven by the ready availability of toxic pesticides. Two laws passed in 1995 and 1998 restricted access to a deadly class of pesticides and by 2005 the suicide rate had fallen by half.

In Switzerland, army reforms in 2003 halved the number of soldiers and the knock-on reduction in the availability of firearms brought about a sharp reduction in suicides among men. Similarly in Israel, in 2006, the army prohibited younger soldiers from taking their service weapons home at the weekend and the measure led to 40% fall in suicides. And legislation passed in the UK in 1998 outlawed the sale of painkillers in bottles, meaning anyone wanting a large quantity had to push them out from blister packs one by one. That seemingly small obstacle had a significant effect — painkiller overdoses fell by 43% over the next decade and overdose-related liver transplants by 61%.

Similar reductions have been observed in the US after the installation of access barriers that prevent people jumping from bridges, and studies tend to show little or no "substitution" effect — ie increases in the number of suicides at nearby bridges. In San Francisco, where dozens of people die every year after jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, a five-year, $76 million metal suicide barrier, paid for by the state, is scheduled for completion by 2023.

Let's not talk about the elephant in the room, though. It's too soon

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