Evilgrin 72

The ***OFFICIAL*** 2018 Pittsburgh Steelers Thread

623 posts in this topic

19 hours ago, tkrull said:

Do they keep V.McDonald for another year?

unless they draft a legit prospect with a high pick, I think they have to.  

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22 hours ago, tkrull said:

Do they keep V.McDonald for another year?

Reasonable cap hits for next 2 seasons (18 is 4.3 and 19 is 5.1), and then reasonable club option caps hit in 20 and 21 (5.5). If he can stay healthy, I think it will be a bargain, as he showed flashes of being a playmaker.

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On 2/12/2018 at 5:01 PM, tkrull said:

Do they keep V.McDonald for another year?

Hope so.

Mocks keep coming out with us taking Ronald Jones, I just don't see it. Even if Bell isn't resigned (which I think he will be), I can't see us taking a RB in the 1st with how much help our D could use.  If Bell is signed or tagged, I doubt we take an RB before the 4th unless a 1st round talent falls to the 2nd/3rd. 

Bigger needs even if Bell leaves: S, ILB, OLB, ILB, G, OT, CB, QB

We have Williams and Matakevich, I like both, but both spots could be upgraded.

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1 hour ago, steelers1080 said:

Hope so.

Mocks keep coming out with us taking Ronald Jones, I just don't see it. Even if Bell isn't resigned (which I think he will be), I can't see us taking a RB in the 1st with how much help our D could use.  If Bell is signed or tagged, I doubt we take an RB before the 4th unless a 1st round talent falls to the 2nd/3rd. 

Bigger needs even if Bell leaves: S, ILB, OLB, ILB, G, OT, CB, QB

We have Williams and Matakevich, I like both, but both spots could be upgraded.

If they don't sign or franchise Bell they will have no choice but to take a RB in the first couple rounds or sign a veteran FA.   Hyde, Lewis, Hill are the best available.

No way in heck you can go into 2018 with the oft-injured Conner and a below-average Toussaint.

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1 hour ago, steelers1080 said:

Hope so.

Mocks keep coming out with us taking Ronald Jones, I just don't see it. Even if Bell isn't resigned (which I think he will be), I can't see us taking a RB in the 1st with how much help our D could use.  If Bell is signed or tagged, I doubt we take an RB before the 4th unless a 1st round talent falls to the 2nd/3rd. 

Bigger needs even if Bell leaves: S, ILB, OLB, ILB, G, OT, CB, QB

We have Williams and Matakevich, I like both, but both spots could be upgraded.

I don't think there's a chance in hell we're taking a RB in round 1, even if Bell walks.  I don't even like Guice or Jones for our offense as much as I like a guy like Kerryon Johnson, who's liable to be there in the 2nd, or Ballage, who will be there in the 3rd most likely.  Pair one of those guys with Conner and we could still do damage in the run game, especially with the added attention that will be paid to the receivers.  They'll face a lot of 7 man fronts with a very good run blocking line in front of them.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

I don't think there's a chance in hell we're taking a RB in round 1, even if Bell walks.  I don't even like Guice or Jones for our offense as much as I like a guy like Kerryon Johnson, who's liable to be there in the 2nd, or Ballage, who will be there in the 3rd most likely.  Pair one of those guys with Conner and we could still do damage in the run game, especially with the added attention that will be paid to the receivers.  They'll face a lot of 7 man fronts with a very good run blocking line in front of them.

If we can't sign Bell long term before the tag period, they're going to tag him. 99% that's what happens. So this isn't even an issue really. But, if they did let him walk, I'd want them to sign Hyde instead of drafting a guy. We need D so badly, and Hyde is very underrated in my eyes. He's always performed very well in a bad offense with a poor line. I think he could put up top 8 RB stats easily with our offense.

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6 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

If we can't sign Bell long term before the tag period, they're going to tag him. 99% that's what happens. So this isn't even an issue really. But, if they did let him walk, I'd want them to sign Hyde instead of drafting a guy. We need D so badly, and Hyde is very underrated in my eyes. He's always performed very well in a bad offense with a poor line. I think he could put up top 8 RB stats easily with our offense.

I agree that if they can't work out a deal they'll franchise him but I'm not so sure that I like that.  If they can't work out a reasonable long term agreement then I would definitely be cool with spending less than 1/2 of that on Hyde and use the rest of the cash to sign a decent veteran defensive player.  Bell is a great back but they need to spread the wealth to the defense.

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10 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I agree that if they can't work out a deal they'll franchise him but I'm not so sure that I like that.  If they can't work out a reasonable long term agreement then I would definitely be cool with spending less than 1/2 of that on Hyde and use the rest of the cash to sign a decent veteran defensive player.  Bell is a great back but they need to spread the wealth to the defense.

I think Murray could be a fit as well.

Edited by Blick

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19 hours ago, Blick said:

I think Murray could be a fit as well.

Demarco or Latavius? Just kidding, doesn't matter, gross.

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First, Juju is amazing.

Second, a guess at roster moves:

  • Cuts
    • Mike Mitchel
    • JJ Wilcox
    • Ramon Foster (this would be a surprise, but if they go Guard early in draft, or resign Hubbard)
    • William Gay
    • Coty Sensabaugh
    • Darius Hey-Bey-Bey (A bit surprising, but he's old and we could save $1 million by using a rookie special teamer)
  • Resign
    • Leveon Bell
    • Big Ben (resign and spread out cap hit, maybe extend 2 years to 2021)
    • Shazier (Not sure if this is allowed. Basically sign him to a 3 year deal that pays him more up front than his current deal, but spread the cap out over 3 years. Also would allow him to try and recover for 3 years on the team but gives the team the ability to spread out his huge cap hit. Idk if you can resign a player that can't pass a physical.)
  • Restructure
    • Antonio Brown (push that hit down the road and restructure him again to reduce his cap hit this year)

These moves would free up enough to sign Leveon, potentially sign a few cheap FAs (maybe ILB?), and sign our rookies. We'd still be strapped, and hope that we can recover from kicking the can down the road.

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1 minute ago, steelers1080 said:

Demarco or Latavius? Just kidding, doesn't matter, gross.

Sorry,  not Latavius. 

If the move is strictly to save money, then they're not getting top talent.  I don't think a committee of Demarco (pass catching) with a rookie RB runner would not be bad.  Otherwise, sign or franchise Bell.

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Resigning Bell to a long term deal will be the biggest blunder the Steelers have made in my lifetime. I’m cool with him being franchised but his presence in the ground game outside of volume was highly overrated this year. He’s a phenomenal pass catcher which is very important in the NFL and that can’t be understated but he can be replaced by a multi back approach if necessary. If he loses half a step he easily becomes a sub 3.5 ypc RB and with his volume he could deteriorate quickly. McKinnon would be a fantastic match for the offense in the pass catching role and Hyde or a RB in the draft can easily match the between the tackles production. I’m not saying he’s overrated but he will end up being a huge burden on the cap and can’t be trusted off the field for the long term.

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11 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

First, Juju is amazing.

 

:lmao:  The jersey is enough, but is he actually wearing pads as well?

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Rumors that they'll move Allen or Sutton to Safety, but no official moves that I've seen.

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31 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Rumors that they'll move Allen or Sutton to Safety, but no official moves that I've seen.

Allen is the better move, IMO.  I also read they may move Davis from SS to FS if Mitchell is cut.  I think that might be a good move as Davis' range seems to be better suited to FS (he would have to work on that Jugs machine though) and this rookie class seems to be a lot stronger at the SS position.

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18 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Sign Cushing?

Ugh. Hated him on Hard Knocks. Guy's a meathead ###hole. Can he still play? I'd rather have Timmons back. 

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On 2/16/2018 at 11:08 AM, Bojang0301 said:

Resigning Bell to a long term deal will be the biggest blunder the Steelers have made in my lifetime. I’m cool with him being franchised but his presence in the ground game outside of volume was highly overrated this year. He’s a phenomenal pass catcher which is very important in the NFL and that can’t be understated but he can be replaced by a multi back approach if necessary. If he loses half a step he easily becomes a sub 3.5 ypc RB and with his volume he could deteriorate quickly. McKinnon would be a fantastic match for the offense in the pass catching role and Hyde or a RB in the draft can easily match the between the tackles production. I’m not saying he’s overrated but he will end up being a huge burden on the cap and can’t be trusted off the field for the long term.

I think Bell is a special back and I would be fine signing him to a reasonable long term deal.  The problem is that Bell wants a deal beyond what is reasonable and I am worried the Steelers will do something very unSteeler-like and overpay.   Reportedly they are going to franchise him this week and continue to try and work a long term deal out. I am kinda hoping they are unable to and let Bell hit free agency next year. 

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12 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I think Bell is a special back and I would be fine signing him to a reasonable long term deal.  The problem is that Bell wants a deal beyond what is reasonable and I am worried the Steelers will do something very unSteeler-like and overpay.   Reportedly they are going to franchise him this week and continue to try and work a long term deal out. I am kinda hoping they are unable to and let Bell hit free agency next year. 

I suppose they could front load it like the 9ers are doing with Jimmy G. That would also do them a service in the future when teams have to resign guys like Gurley, Elliot, Fournette and Kamara. I still think they should be going after McKinnon this offseason, whether Bell is there still or not. He would be the perfect recieving back for how the offense runs. If Bell were to go down a combo of Conner and McKinnon would be sufficient to maintain the offensive production.

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I'm worried about breaking the bank for Bell as well. He is a special all around back but he's got a ton of mileage and committing to a the type of deal that essentially puts them on the hook for $12-15M a year for next 3 years, which I think is what his contract will look like at least, is not something I'm exactly giddy to see. Problem with franchising him is that's going to be tough to work around $23M straight salary shot to a RB and player who likely won't be able to play in Shazier.

This is not an after the fact statement, but something I said before the season when fantasy community would be critical of teams like Saints adding more RB's and frustrated with Patriots adding more. Entering the season the Saints had committed about $8M to Ingram/Kamara/AP. Pats committed about $8M to Burkhead/Gillislee/Lewis/White. Both those teams had misses with their investments but for 75% of what the Steelers paid Bell both of those teams got more production of their RB's in both the passing game and running game then the Steelers got not only out of Bell but their entire RB group and have depth to a point if any one RB got hurt it would not devastate those teams.

I'd generally be in favor of that kind of approach, paying a group of 3-4 solid RB's a fraction of what we pay Bell but there is one problem to this method. You got to get the right mix of RB's or you will be floundering around at RB like Seattle.  This could be an issue with the Steelers because other than absolutely crushing the Bell pick they've done a pretty poor job under Colbert/Tomlin on identifying and adding other RB's. Mendenhall was solid enough but what else have they added at a position where you can find late round gems and cheap FA's  easier then most? I'm of the opinion Conner is a stiff who should have been a 5th-6h round type pick, taking him in round 3 of a loaded RB draft did not inspire confidence for me. Blount I think was biggest FA signing at RB and he was a disaster.

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Add me to the list of people who think that $12.5-15M per year for any running back is crazy.  Bell is definitely a talent, but that number is just way out of whack.... especially considering the obvious need at linebacker and safety.  Add the injury and suspension history and this is not a player that I want my team to invest heavily in going forward.

Release him, sign a vet and draft another back in the third or fourth round.  Spend the money saved on an inside linebacker and safety.  Yes, the offense will suffer slightly, but the defensive improvement should more than make up for it.

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There are a handful of guys available in FA for ILB this year, I doubt we pony up the money, but there are a few pretty good options. It would be smart to try and get a guy on a 2-3 year deal and resign Shazier for 3 years (if allowed) to spread out his hit.

Also, saw a mock where we got Rudolph in the 2nd (OK St. QB), I'd be A-ok with that.

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I kind of miss Touchdown There. He'd definitely be screaming about how the Steelers are broke and can't afford Bell. I wonder what happened to him. Either he stopped posting here or he finally ran himself over with his own car. 

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If the Steelers decide to not sign Bell the silver lining, besides the cap savings, would be a high compensatory pick in 2019.

Speaking on compensatory picks, the Steelers should get one for Timmons. I've read it will likely be a 5th rounder...

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11 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

If the Steelers decide to not sign Bell the silver lining, besides the cap savings, would be a high compensatory pick in 2019.

Speaking on compensatory picks, the Steelers should get one for Timmons. I've read it will likely be a 5th rounder...

Wouldn't the Joe Haden signing cancel out any comp pick for Timmons ?

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1 hour ago, moondog said:

Wouldn't the Joe Haden signing cancel out any comp pick for Timmons ?

I'm not sure, possibly.  Does it matter that Haden was cut by the Browns?

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29 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I'm not sure, possibly.  Does it matter that Haden was cut by the Browns?

It does.  Only players lost to free agency are calculated.  Since Hayden was cut, he does not count.

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16 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

If the Steelers decide to not sign Bell the silver lining, besides the cap savings, would be a high compensatory pick in 2019.

Speaking on compensatory picks, the Steelers should get one for Timmons. I've read it will likely be a 5th rounder...

Doesn't look like it.  Not official, but those guys are pretty good.  Pittsburgh signed more FA then they lost and that's probably why.

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14 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Doesn't look like it.  Not official, but those guys are pretty good.  Pittsburgh signed more FA then they lost and that's probably why.

I think the league also looks at the $$ amount of the contracts of the FAs you lose got vs the FAs you signed.

The four FA's Pittsburgh lost had contracts totaling  $26M.   The five FAs they signed had contracts totaling $11M

 

 

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1 hour ago, moondog said:

I think the league also looks at the $$ amount of the contracts of the FAs you lose got vs the FAs you signed.

The four FA's Pittsburgh lost had contracts totaling  $26M.   The five FAs they signed had contracts totaling $11M

 

 

Nope, # first.  Only if you lose more than you sign.

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

Cancel Out CFAs Lost With CFAs Gained For Each Team
Finally, one each team’s list of CFAs lost and gained are determined and valued, one-to-one cancellations are applied.  Cancellations work as follows:
A CFA gained by a team cancels out the highest-valued available CFA lost that has the same round valuation of the CFA gained.
If there is no available CFA lost in the same round as the CFA gained, the CFA gained will instead cancel out the highest-available CFA lost with a lower round value.
A CFA gained will only cancel out a CFA lost with a higher draft order if there are no other CFAs lost available to cancel out.
Any team that has more CFAs lost than CFAs gained will then be eligible for compensatory picks for the CFAs lost that were not cancelled out by CFAs gained.
For a visual representation of how cancellations work, please visit our Compensatory Draft Picks Cancellation Chart to gain a better understanding of this complex process.

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1 hour ago, moondog said:

I think the league also looks at the $$ amount of the contracts of the FAs you lose got vs the FAs you signed.

The four FA's Pittsburgh lost had contracts totaling  $26M.   The five FAs they signed had contracts totaling $11M

 

 

Where this applies most is when determining what picks cancel.  PIT lost four guys - Timmons 2 years at $6M per year, Wheaton 2 years at $6M per year, Jarvis Jones 1 year at $1.25M, and Shamarko Thomas 1/$855k.  So they should qualify for a 5th, 5th, 7th, and 7th respectively.

When they sign Justin Hunter at almost exactly what Thomas was lost at they "cancel out" the 7th he would have brought.
Alualu was signed for 2 years/$6M per, so that cancels out Timmons' 5th
When they sign Knile Davis, there is no one close to his contract value, so the "next highest" would be the 7th from Jones.
If they stop there they would have a 5th round comp pick left.  But since they signed others, and since there were no other lower comp picks to "cancel", when you look at Cody Sensabaugh, even though it's only 2 years at $1.3M per year, the only pick left to cancel is the 5th from Wheaton.

My disclaimer is I don't follow PIT so I don't know when these guys were signed or even if they were cut at some point.  If they were signed after a certain cutoff they wouldn't cancel out a comp pick, and if they were cut before (week 10? I think?) a certain point they also wouldn't cancel any.

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"The Miami Herald reports the Dolphins are expected to release LB Lawrence Timmons by the start of the new league year.

Source: Miami Herald Feb 22 - 3:16 PM"

I don't think Timmons can cover anymore but I would not be surprised if the Steelers talk to him.

 

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On 2/22/2018 at 3:29 PM, moondog said:

 

"The Miami Herald reports the Dolphins are expected to release LB Lawrence Timmons by the start of the new league year.

Source: Miami Herald Feb 22 - 3:16 PM"

I don't think Timmons can cover anymore but I would not be surprised if the Steelers talk to him.

 

He would be an upgrade over Spence. That's not saying much but anything they can do to improve depth at ILB is welcome

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I would probably prefer Derrick Johnson over Timmons if the search is for a vet ILB.

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No compensatory picks for the Steelers in 2018.    The Bengals get three:  3rd, 5th and 7th.   Ravens get a 6th.   None for the Browns.

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Just say no to Timmons' returning.  Guy was a warrior for Pitty, but he's toast.  "He's better than Spence" isn't a big enough selling point to me.  They can probably find someone "better than Spence" on the 91A PAT bus headed through Lawrenceville every afternoon at 3:42. 

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10 hours ago, 5-ish Finkle said:

Just say no to Timmons' returning.  Guy was a warrior for Pitty, but he's toast.  "He's better than Spence" isn't a big enough selling point to me.  They can probably find someone "better than Spence" on the 91A PAT bus headed through Lawrenceville every afternoon at 3:42. 

I dunno I thought he had a decent year in 2016, he knows the system, and he was calling the plays on defense until last year.  There was a big problem with communications on defense after Shazier went down and they never did fix it.

He is only 32 which is not ancient and should come cheap.  I say bring him to kick the tires...

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