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The ***OFFICIAL*** 2018 Pittsburgh Steelers Thread

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1 minute ago, Bayhawks said:

I think you are thinking about it more rationally than AB is.  

If he was such a media whore that he felt like he might be damaging his public image, he wouldn't have skipped all the practices/walk-through last week; he wouldn't have been chucking stuff out of his hotel/condo in Miami in the offseason; he wouldn't have left TC and been photographed in Miami when he was supposed to be in Latrobe; he wouldn't ##### on the sidelines after his team scores a TD because he wasn't the guy who scored it.  If his need to  "save face" didn't prevent those things, I fail to see why it would now lead him to issue a public apology.

He doesn't seem to value his place as a member of the Steelers too highly.  This type of behavior has been going on for a while, by most accounts, and I doubt a forced, insincere apology would make the work environment any more different (more/less "hostile") than it already is.  I don't see how a "my bad" will make his teammates forget that he threw a tantrum b/c he wasn't named team MVP, threw a ball at his QB because he told him to run a route differently, and skipped the entire week of practices leading up to (and ultimately the game) they needed to win to have any shot at the playoffs.

If he's angling for anything, it would be (IMO) to be cut.  Short of the Steelers bowing to him (which is the most likely outcome, IMO), that would be his best (and likely desired) outcome.  

The Steelers haven't, by any means, disciplined Brown to the extent he can.  They should have fined and/or suspended him for some/all of these antics.  Skipping medical treatments, going to the beach in MIA when TC is going on & you're under contract (and are supposedly getting treatment in Pitt), skipping practices/walk-throughs, leaving a game at halftime, etc all deserve discipline, and by most accounts, were ignored.  Benching him for one game, while trying to pretend it was an injury decision (only admitting the truth when forced to) is not discipline.  

I don't think it is very likely the Steelers will simply cut Antonio Brown and let him walk away.  

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Just now, Godsbrother said:

I don't think it is very likely the Steelers will simply cut Antonio Brown and let him walk away.  

Neither do I; but it's also not very likely that they will trade him.  So if neither of these things are very likely, and he doesn't care about his image or the impact he has on the locker room (which his behavior suggests), why would he issue an apology?

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1 minute ago, Bayhawks said:

Neither do I; but it's also not very likely that they will trade him.  So if neither of these things are very likely, and he doesn't care about his image or the impact he has on the locker room (which his behavior suggests), why would he issue an apology?

He cares about himself and no one likes working in a hostile environment.    If he stays with the team he will have to address his teammates eventually.

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48 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

What is silly is to hang on to a coach because he won a SB 10 years ago, but in the present day has clearly lost control of his team, and is constantly being outcoached during games.  

I don't think he lost control of his team. They played hard, but mistakes cost them.  The team drama this year has mainly centered around two people, AB and Bell. AB is a me person, and not a team person. His teammates recognize that, and I think that is why they voted JuJu MVP over him. He was already jealous of JuJu, so that MVP had to have really pissed him off. He went AWOL. He has gotten way too big for his britches. As for Bell, there was nothing Tomlin could do about that, and they did well with RBs Conner and Samuels. 

As for Tomlin, all coaches get out-coached now and then, and he could do a better job on some things. I also think a change of scenery can be good for a coach, especially a coach that has had a long tenure with a team. However, I wouldn't fire Tomlin right now, but I wouldn't sign him to an extension either. I'd wait and see what develops next season. The Steelers are usually competitive every year, and that includes this year. If AB is a Steeler next year and his antics continue, Tomlin will have to nip it in the bud fast. He did discipline Antonio by benching him for the last game, but Antonio's behavior this season has left a bad stench in the air that his teammates smell. Hopefully they can clear that air one way or another.

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17 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

But not butler?

Supposedly just the start for the defensive staff. No promises Butler makes it through the day. 

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3 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

He cares about himself and no one likes working in a hostile environment.    If he stays with the team he will have to address his teammates eventually.

Again, I think you are giving him more credit for rational thought processes than he might deserve.  If he cared about avoiding a hostile environment, why has there been repeated examples of behavior that is likely to lead to a hostile environment?  After anyone of those instances, one could have said "he won't like working in a hostile environment, so if he stays with the Steelers, he won't do this type of stuff again."  And yet, we have not 1, or 2, or 3, but MANY examples of Brown essentially saying (through his actions) "f### my team/teammates; I'm going to do what I want to do."

If he's willing to behave like that, repeatedly, even though it will cause a hostile environment, it's unreasonable to expect him to make a public apology that benefits the team (that he's not currently happy with) that only benefits him by making that environment less hostile.

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2 hours ago, Iceman03 said:

Kevin Greene was insinuating he’d be interested in the LB job. Not sure how he did with GB’s LB’s a few years back.

Does he still have a 5 star mullet?   If he cut it off already, that's a dealbreaker IMO

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21 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

So they really are considering a trade?

Who in the top 10 of the draft this year needs a wr that also has a defensive player the steelers would covet?

The Ravens if you'd take out the "top ten pick" qualifier 😎

Edited by Uruk-Hai

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5 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

So they really are considering a trade?

Who in the top 10 of the draft this year needs a wr that also has a defensive player the steelers would covet?

You think another team is going to give up a top-10 pick AND a coveted defensive player?

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6 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

 

Who in the top 10 of the draft this year needs a wr that also has a defensive player the steelers would covet?

Seriously?

ETA: bayhawks beat me to it

Edited by Cowboysfan8

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Best hope for a trade of AB is AB and our 2nd for the Bills 1st.  That's AB and pick ~52 for pick 9. The Bills potentially have their QB for the near future, now he needs a WR. I don't think that any team is going to give us a top 10 pick straight up for AB, I'm a bit dubious that any team would give a #1 for him. But if we could package, keep our 1st, and get a top 10 pick that would be amazing. That gives us a shot at a real game changer like Ed Oliver, Clelin Ferrell, Greedy Williams, or Quinnen Williams. 

I don't know that we'll be able to trade AB for that much though, even if he is still a top 3 WR in the league. 

Another thought, people have talked about us cutting Gilbert due to his price and injuries, is there any chance we could trade him instead, even for a late pick? Just 1 year ago he was thought about as a top 10 RT, I know he's been injured but I think that's still worth something. 

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Some of the hypothetical trades that I've seen are absolutely nuts and I don't think could happen. Others are more realistic but I'm still not convinced:

  • AB to AZ for Pick 33 and Patrick Peterson: Would they even do AB for Peterson straight up? High character star CB for potential trouble albeit with amazing WR talent. 
  • AB to Oak for Pick 4 or Picks 24 & 27 (projected): Really? Is AB worth the #4 pick or 2 later 1sts at his age, even though he does have a reasonable contract for his least 3 years?
  • AB to NYJ for Pick 3: Again, is he worth that much? I think at a minimum we would have to give AB and a pick, possibly our 1st to move up that high. Maybe I just overvalue draft capital because of fantasy though.
  • AB to SF for Pick 2: See previous.
  • AB to MIA for Xavien Howard and Pick 13: Up and coming CB and a top pick for an Aging Star? With a team that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, how does this make sense?
  • AB to Oak for Picks 24 and Bears 2020 3rd, and Karl Joseph: Closer to reality I think. Not sure Joseph has really panned out, but is that coaching or talent (See Cooper, Amari). 
  • AB to DET for Pick 8, Philly 3rd, and Jaylen Reeves-Maybin (LB): Still hard to believe teams will give us a top 10 pick and more for AB. 
  • AB to INDY for Pick 26 (projected), Pick 35, 2020 5th: This seems realistic to me. I'm not sure the Indy GM will give up this much to have AB complain that TY is getting all the passes, but late 1st early 2nd sounds more realistic than a top 10 pick plus more. 
  • AB to SF for 2020 1st, 2019 4th, and Solomon Thomas OR 2019 2nd: I think they are genuinely interested, but I'm not sure this is the deal that gets done. 
  • AB to BUF for Tremaine Edmunds: Would be interesting.
  • AB to CLE for Denzel Ward: In division? Get real. 
  • AB to TEN for Pick 19: Perhaps the most realistic trade value-wise, but I don't see Vrabel wanting to trade his 1st for a WR. 

I think that most people are just taking shots in the dark. They're trying to base the value off past trades, but the WRs traded recently were on rookie deals, but also not as good as AB. My guess is that he's worth a 2nd half 1st round pick. So either a late 1st and some other stuff, or an early 1st and we give other stuff, but it's the NFL. You never know what crazy things can happen. The Steelers unloaded Santonio for less than he was worth just to get him out, hopefully we don't do that again and we're able to get a steal of a trade, like we did with Martavis. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 1:09 PM, Leeroy Jenkins said:

So they really are considering a trade?

Who in the top 10 of the draft this year needs a wr that also has a defensive player the steelers would covet?

The problem with trading a malcontent, is that there is no guarantee he won't have similar disruptive issues in his new landing spot. This will be some of the baggage following Lev Bell around in free agency as well.

No way AB is worth a top-10 pick... wrong side of the Mendoza line for one thing (age vs talent w/ issues/risk).

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Broncos hire Vic Fangio! Munchak safe for now!

Also, Jags sign Thomas Rawls and are moving to get rid of Fournette's guarantees. What if the Steelers traded AB and their 1st (20) for Fournette and the Jags 1st (7). It's not a strong QB class, so even if the Jags want a QB they should be able to get a top 4 guy at 20. I know a lot of people don't like Fournette, and he has had a handful of injuries so this might not be the best idea, but it gets us a Bell replacement/depth at RB and moves us up to an area of the draft that could net us a real star. Imagine if we got Greedy Williams or Quinnen Williams. 

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1 hour ago, steelers1080 said:

Some of the hypothetical trades that I've seen are absolutely nuts and I don't think could happen. Others are more realistic but I'm still not convinced:

  • AB to AZ for Pick 33 and Patrick Peterson: Would they even do AB for Peterson straight up? High character star CB for potential trouble albeit with amazing WR talent. 
  • AB to Oak for Pick 4 or Picks 24 & 27 (projected): Really? Is AB worth the #4 pick or 2 later 1sts at his age, even though he does have a reasonable contract for his least 3 years?
  • AB to NYJ for Pick 3: Again, is he worth that much? I think at a minimum we would have to give AB and a pick, possibly our 1st to move up that high. Maybe I just overvalue draft capital because of fantasy though.
  • AB to SF for Pick 2: See previous.
  • AB to MIA for Xavien Howard and Pick 13: Up and coming CB and a top pick for an Aging Star? With a team that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, how does this make sense?
  • AB to Oak for Picks 24 and Bears 2020 3rd, and Karl Joseph: Closer to reality I think. Not sure Joseph has really panned out, but is that coaching or talent (See Cooper, Amari). 
  • AB to DET for Pick 8, Philly 3rd, and Jaylen Reeves-Maybin (LB): Still hard to believe teams will give us a top 10 pick and more for AB. 
  • AB to INDY for Pick 26 (projected), Pick 35, 2020 5th: This seems realistic to me. I'm not sure the Indy GM will give up this much to have AB complain that TY is getting all the passes, but late 1st early 2nd sounds more realistic than a top 10 pick plus more. 
  • AB to SF for 2020 1st, 2019 4th, and Solomon Thomas OR 2019 2nd: I think they are genuinely interested, but I'm not sure this is the deal that gets done. 
  • AB to BUF for Tremaine Edmunds: Would be interesting.
  • AB to CLE for Denzel Ward: In division? Get real. 
  • AB to TEN for Pick 19: Perhaps the most realistic trade value-wise, but I don't see Vrabel wanting to trade his 1st for a WR. 

I think that most people are just taking shots in the dark. They're trying to base the value off past trades, but the WRs traded recently were on rookie deals, but also not as good as AB. My guess is that he's worth a 2nd half 1st round pick. So either a late 1st and some other stuff, or an early 1st and we give other stuff, but it's the NFL. You never know what crazy things can happen. The Steelers unloaded Santonio for less than he was worth just to get him out, hopefully we don't do that again and we're able to get a steal of a trade, like we did with Martavis. 

These are all interesting but in my gut I have a feeling all sides hug and kiss and AB stays with the Steelers.    

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Good read if you can access it: https://theathletic.com/752274/2019/01/08/when-you-break-it-down-two-calendar-years-worth-of-steelers-drama-has-been-mind-boggling/

I could cut and paste the whole article if people can't access it and want me to. I want to share the info but not sure it's cool to do that to a pay site that does not take advertising dollars but I will if asked.

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4 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

AB to AZ for Pick 33 and Patrick Peterson: Would they even do AB for Peterson straight up? High character star CB for potential trouble albeit with amazing WR talent. 

This would be awesome but no way it happens.

I still think the Steelers should attempt to trade AB for all 3 of OAKs first round picks... if they thought Bryant was worth a 3rd it makes sense :lol: 

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4 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

 

These are all interesting but in my gut I have a feeling all sides hug and kiss and AB stays with the Steelers.    

This is what I hope happens.  I don’t care who the Steelers draft.  They aren’t winning a Super Bowl in the next couple years if this offense falls apart.  They have to find a way to live with AB and his ridiculous antics/attitude.  

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9 hours ago, menobrown said:

Good read if you can access it: https://theathletic.com/752274/2019/01/08/when-you-break-it-down-two-calendar-years-worth-of-steelers-drama-has-been-mind-boggling/

I could cut and paste the whole article if people can't access it and want me to. I want to share the info but not sure it's cool to do that to a pay site that does not take advertising dollars but I will if asked.

That's quite a list, though I don't see anything that's Tomlin's fault. I don't know if publicly criticizing/fining elite prima donna players would've made anything better. Though maybe we're at that point now. 

The Athletic is the best sports site in existence but I don't think it's cool to share their pay content willy nilly. A subscription is like $4/mo and they deserve to get paid. I'm impressed by what they are trying to do and I hope it works. Has the potential to change sports journalism (and journalism in general) for the better. 

Back to the Steelers, I'm glad they got rid of Porter, but don't understand firing the RB coach. Def. coordinator and DB coach were much more glaring issues, at least to my untrained eye. 

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39 minutes ago, bananafish said:

That's quite a list, though I don't see anything that's Tomlin's fault. I don't know if publicly criticizing/fining elite prima donna players would've made anything better. Though maybe we're at that point now. 

 

Agree and why I made sure to post this in the Steelers thread and not the Tomlin should be fired thread.

 

40 minutes ago, bananafish said:

 

The Athletic is the best sports site in existence but I don't think it's cool to share their pay content willy nilly. A subscription is like $4/mo and they deserve to get paid. I'm impressed by what they are trying to do and I hope it works. Has the potential to change sports journalism (and journalism in general) for the better. 

 

I was really unsure of proper protocol. They often give free trials so I figured letting people read an article might actually be good for them but appreciate the feedback. And 100% all you said on about The Athletic, absolutely great site and they deserve to be paid.

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8 hours ago, bananafish said:

That's quite a list, though I don't see anything that's Tomlin's fault. I don't know if publicly criticizing/fining elite prima donna players would've made anything better. Though maybe we're at that point now. 

Back to the Steelers, I'm glad they got rid of Porter, but don't understand firing the RB coach. Def. coordinator and DB coach were much more glaring issues, at least to my untrained eye. 

Yet when Ben called out AB he was criticized for doing it.    You can't win...

As far as the coaching moves go, this was Bradley (DB coach) first season with the team -- I am willing to give him a little more time.  I am on the fence with Butler:  I thought he made some great adjustments early in the season by dialing up the pass rush (the team tied with KC for most sacks).   But down the stretch the defense blew late 4th quarter leads, something that has plagued the team the past couple of seasons.   The worst collapse was the Oakland loss -- that alone was grounds for dismissal.

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With only the Bengals and Dolphins head coaching positions open, and Munchak supposedly not being in the running for either, it appears the Steelers may have dodged a bullet.  I was really worried Munchak was going to be leaving for a HC position.  Hopefully none of these new coaches target him as an OC.

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11 hours ago, bananafish said:

Back to the Steelers, I'm glad they got rid of Porter, but don't understand firing the RB coach. Def. coordinator and DB coach were much more glaring issues, at least to my untrained eye. 

Totally agree on the firing of Saxon, I don't get it.  Both Conner and Samuels exceeded everyone's expectations this year.  So it makes perfect sense that Tomlin fired him...🙄

 

21 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

 

These are all interesting but in my gut I have a feeling all sides hug and kiss and AB stays with the Steelers.    

I'm not so sure about that.  There's a darn good chance he's burned his bridges with his teammates, and they're ready to move on from his me-first antics.  I think the team MVP vote for JuJu was a purposeful slap in the face to AB, and his reaction to it only further confirmed their convictions.

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41 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

Totally agree on the firing of Saxon, I don't get it.  Both Conner and Samuels exceeded everyone's expectations this year.  So it makes perfect sense that Tomlin fired him...🙄

 

I'm not so sure about that.  There's a darn good chance he's burned his bridges with his teammates, and they're ready to move on from his me-first antics.  I think the team MVP vote for JuJu was a purposeful slap in the face to AB, and his reaction to it only further confirmed their convictions.

You could be right though the MVP is voted by the players and not necessarily an indication of how the ownership, front office or coaching staff feels.

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11 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Is Munchak an asst hc or just oline?

Think he's just OL, IIRC.  There might have been some scuttlebutt a few years back about giving him the asst. HC title so he couldn't leave unless if was for a HC gig, but I don't think it was anything other than beat types talking it up as a thing to consider.  My short term memory is swiss cheese-y though, sooo.....yeah.

Like most, I like what Munchak's done quite a bit for Pittsburgh.  I have also always felt, with no disrespect intended to him, that he probably is best at doing what he is doing:  teaching players how to play a position.  I've never really seen anything to make me think he'd make that dynamic of a HC(or OC).  That said, there's not a damn thing wrong with being a #%ing great assistant.  

I expect eventually he's going to get his shot somewhere though. Pile of money attached to a HC gig, so no one can blame him for chasing it if/when he finally lands one.  Surprised Green Bay didn't court him more seriously.

 

Edited by 5-ish Finkle

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14 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

AB said to likely not be a steeler by Rooney. 

The $21mm is dead money in the cap, right?

Yes.   

I still wouldn't rule out AB's return to the Steelers but I think this interview and Joey Porter's dismissal sends a clear message to AB and the team that ownership has had enough of the off-field drama.   At least I hope it does...

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15 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

AB said to likely not be a steeler by Rooney. 

The $21mm is dead money in the cap, right?

A little context to Art Rooney's comment from Steelers Depot.  I bolded the question and his reply to it--

"

First, let’s back up to the question that he was asked that prompted that response. Article author Gerry Dulac was specific in that. He said that Rooney was asked specifically whether “it would be hard or easy to envision Brown being at training camp”.

This is framing the response, and given the two options, it’s obvious that it’s hard, rather than easy, to envision Brown being with the team right now. Because right now, he’s not even returning Rooney’s phone calls. Rooney was asked, to be clear, if it would be hard or easy to envision Brown being there, and his response was that it would be hard to envision Brown being there. His answer was dictated by the question. And it was also only part of his answer. This was his complete answer:

“As we sit here today, it’s hard to envision that. But there’s no sense on closing the door on anything today. There’s snow on the ground. We don’t have to make those decisions right now”."

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/art-rooney-iis-hard-to-envision-remark-hard-to-frame-right-out-of-context/

 

Edited by moondog
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I don't like this pattern:

L. Blount - walks off field, bad influence on L. Bell, gets cut

J. Harrison - sleeps through meetings, becomes generally a PITA, gets gut

L. Bell - doesn't sign contract, Steelers get vilified for not paying a great player, he'll probably walk this year as an FA

AB - general jackassery off the field, temper tantrums at practice and during games, now he might be traded

 

 

Do they need stronger leadership in the locker room from the players?  More discipline from Tomlin?  I don't like this pattern of people being able to force their way out of the Steelers organization by being jerks.  I realize each of these situations is slightly different and I don't fault the Steelers for making any of the moves they made individually, but now that a pattern has emerged I'm concerned and I think/hope Rooney's comments about AB are a step in the right direction to solving this issue.

 

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28 minutes ago, Steeler said:

I don't like this pattern:

L. Blount - walks off field, bad influence on L. Bell, gets cut

J. Harrison - sleeps through meetings, becomes generally a PITA, gets gut

L. Bell - doesn't sign contract, Steelers get vilified for not paying a great player, he'll probably walk this year as an FA

AB - general jackassery off the field, temper tantrums at practice and during games, now he might be traded

 

 

Do they need stronger leadership in the locker room from the players?  More discipline from Tomlin?  I don't like this pattern of people being able to force their way out of the Steelers organization by being jerks.  I realize each of these situations is slightly different and I don't fault the Steelers for making any of the moves they made individually, but now that a pattern has emerged I'm concerned and I think/hope Rooney's comments about AB are a step in the right direction to solving this issue.

 

Its apparent they zero leadership in the locker room and Tomlin certainly isn't going to discipline anyone. 

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It’s not a let’s discipline this person or that person issue. By all accounts Cam Heyward and Villenuava are high character leaders. What needs to happen is to stop placing talent over character at all costs. I can’t help but wonder if this is a Ben issue too. They’ve let him do whatever he wants for so long other players think they get the same deal. I’m starting to look forward to the post Ben era. His criticism and shunning of James Washington instead of attempting to make a rookie a better player really rubbed me the wrong way this year. How about you’ve been in the league for almost 20 years? Act like it and help fix the kid in private instead of dragging a 22 year old through the mud in the media.

Edited by Iceman03
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I don't think AB is back next year, I'm sad to see him go but if he really is disrupting the team I think they should move on and try and rebuild team cohesion. It seems like the Steelers haven't been the Steelers for the last couple years. I'm not sure the team could handle having multiple superstars with a me-first attitude (3 B's). 

Also, I don't know that they voted Juju MVP as a slap to AB, I think it could just have been done since his fumble may have cost them the Saints game and they wanted to show him that they still love him (It was voted for right after the week 16 game before week 17). Raising up one player doesn't necessarily mean they wanted to bash the other. 

If we end up trading AB, I hope it's for a high first, or a late first/early 2nd and a player. I hope it doesn't come off as a later pick because we're just trying to get what we can get. Hopefully the several months before trading is even allowed will help increase our ability to get a decent price for him. Peterson for AB straight up would be a huge win in my book. 

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Just now, irish eyes said:

Its apparent they zero leadership in the locker room and Tomlin certainly isn't going to discipline anyone. 

:shrug: The same Tomlin who benched AB for the Cincy game with the playoffs on the line?

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On 1/12/2019 at 7:17 AM, moondog said:

A new report says Denver wants to hire him as their OL coach not the OC.   Having family in Denver is going to make it tough for Munchak to say no, IMO.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/report-broncos-still-wanting-to-hire-munchak-away-from-steelers/

From what I have heard Munchak and Broncos are finalizing the deal now...

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13 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

Looks like we locked up Munchak's assistant before he could be poached. 

Dulac seemed surprised the Steelers didn't bring a few OL oaches in for a look-see before signing Shaun Sarrett. 

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Munchak gone and the downward spiral continues.  They should have just canned Tomlin and gave munchak the job. This team will not be in the playoffs next year. 

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44 minutes ago, irish eyes said:

Munchak gone and the downward spiral continues.  They should have just canned Tomlin and gave munchak the job. This team will not be in the playoffs next year. 

Tomlin is a better head coach than Munchak.  Also just because you're a good line coach doesn't mean you would be a good head coach

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1 hour ago, Godsbrother said:

Dulac seemed surprised the Steelers didn't bring a few OL oaches in for a look-see before signing Shaun Sarrett. 

Guy has been with the team longer than Munchak... don’t know if he would have stayed if they brought others in. Seems like it was a succession plan all along. 

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