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Deamon

*Official 2018 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles* - Tough way to go out. Magic finally gone.

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Just now, Insein said:

If Kirk Cousins can get paid, Foles deserves it too.

Definitely deserves it but he won’t get that kind of money. Or Mike Glennon money. 

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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:

Definitely deserves it but he won’t get that kind of money. Or Mike Glennon money. 

Oh he'll get more than Mike Glennon money. Geez he makes more than that now.

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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Definitely deserves it but he won’t get that kind of money. Or Mike Glennon money. 

But what if he wins another Super Bowl and is the main reason for it?  I get that he may need the right system but I’m sure there are teams willing to gamble that they can implement that system.  The dude just threw for almost 500 yards in a must win game against a team with a very good front 7 (and also fighting for a bye).  If he wins a Super Bowl this year and doesn’t get paid big, that’s a sin IMO.  

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8 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

But what if he wins another Super Bowl and is the main reason for it?  I get that he may need the right system but I’m sure there are teams willing to gamble that they can implement that system.  The dude just threw for almost 500 yards in a must win game against a team with a very good front 7 (and also fighting for a bye).  If he wins a Super Bowl this year and doesn’t get paid big, that’s a sin IMO.  

I mean, sure, that would presumably be a different story.  That is a way way way way way far off right now.

way

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Just now, Long Ball Larry said:

I mean, sure, that would presumably be a different story.  That is a way way way way way far off right now.

way

But that’s the hypothetical that I’ve been laying out.  If they lose in the first round of the playoffs and Foles plays like ####, that certainly changes things.  

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2 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

I mean, sure, that would presumably be a different story.  That is a way way way way way far off right now.

way

And why is it way off with the way that he’s playing (and the system that he’s in)?  The guy seems to be a great leader (his teammates love him) and doesn’t crumble under pressure. All of the other teams have flaws.  Yes the odds are against the Eagles winning another Super Bowl but does anyone really think that Foles is going to throw a clunker that costs them a win?  

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21 minutes ago, belljr said:

Can you guys be in the Dallas thread pissing on it so I can be amused

The Cowboys won the east and theses guys all of a sudden have last years team back. We’re both happy. 

Besides, it’s Christmas! 🎄 

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25 minutes ago, belljr said:

Can you guys be in the Dallas thread pissing on it so I can be amused

All I see is some posts by Bankerguy and “You have chosen to ignore posts by...”

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6 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

And why is it way off with the way that he’s playing (and the system that he’s in)?  The guy seems to be a great leader (his teammates love him) and doesn’t crumble under pressure. All of the other teams have flaws.  Yes the odds are against the Eagles winning another Super Bowl but does anyone really think that Foles is going to throw a clunker that costs them a win?  

Dude, this team is held together by bubble gum and duct tape

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1 minute ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Dude, this team is held together by bubble gum and duct tape

They just beat 2 very good teams in a must win situation.  They obviously have talent.   :shrug: 

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41 minutes ago, Insein said:

Oh he'll get more than Mike Glennon money. Geez he makes more than that now.

You’re right. I meant the deal he got from the Bears lol

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34 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Definitely deserves it but he won’t get that kind of money. Or Mike Glennon money. 

With all due respect, are you out of your mind? If you don’t think this guy will have 3/45 fully guaranteed, we can just stop this conversation right now.

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Isn’t Cousins 3/84 guaranteed. 

Jimmy G 75 guaranteed.

Some serious homer hopium in those posts, no offense.

 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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8 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

With all due respect, are you out of your mind? If you don’t think this guy will have 3/45 fully guaranteed, we can just stop this conversation right now.

 

5 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Isn’t Cousins 3/84 guaranteed. 

Jimmy G 75 guaranteed.

Some serious homer hopium in those posts, no offense.

 

Yeah let’s stop. He won’t see “40 or 50 million guaranteed or possible more” at all. 

He’ll be looking at a Case Keenum/Blake Bortles type of contract. 

**ETA**

Im catching up on some posts- is this contract hypothetical based on him winning the SB again this year? If so, he still won’t see 40-50 million guaranteed 

Edited by Bigboy10182000

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Alex Smith $111mm 5 years, $70mm guaranteed. 

Yea, let’s stop indeed.

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Best fit for Foles in Jax.  Unfortunately I don't think they can pay him, with that ridiculous contract they gave Bortles.

 

There's really not "that" many teams going to be looking for QB next year. I mean, Giants might be able to just draft the top QB at # 8 or so. Miami maybe, but Foles isn't "that" much of an upgrade from Tannehill, and they'd take a big cap hit to move on. Same with Cinci and Dalton.

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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

 

Yeah let’s stop. He won’t see “40 or 50 million guaranteed or possible more” at all. 

He’ll be looking at a Case Keenum/Blake Bortles type of contract. 

Case 2 years, $36mm, $25mm fully guaranteed. Per year more than the Glennon contract you just said he wouldn’t get :shrug:

 

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7 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Alex Smith $111mm 5 years, $70mm guaranteed. 

Yea, let’s stop indeed.

 

5 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Case 2 years, $36mm, $25mm fully guaranteed. Per year more than the Glennon contract you just said he wouldn’t get :shrug:

 

Correct...

40-50 guaranteed is more than 25, no?

If he’s lucky that’s what he’ll be looking at.  And yes, he won’t see what Glennon got. 

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12 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

 

**ETA**

Im catching up on some posts- is this contract hypothetical based on him winning the SB again this year? If so, he still won’t see 40-50 million guaranteed 

The odds of him winning a SB this year are prob gonna be between 100-200 - 1 coming into next week, but if he does, I’m quoting this post just in case.

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12 minutes ago, babydemon90 said:

Best fit for Foles in Jax.  Unfortunately I don't think they can pay him, with that ridiculous contract they gave Bortles.

 

There's really not "that" many teams going to be looking for QB next year. I mean, Giants might be able to just draft the top QB at # 8 or so. Miami maybe, but Foles isn't "that" much of an upgrade from Tannehill, and they'd take a big cap hit to move on. Same with Cinci and Dalton.

This guy gets it. 

The Giants are Eli or a rookie. 

Other than that you will have to hope an owner or GM all of a sudden sees it in Nick and wants to make him a franchise QB—it’s not happening at 30. 

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1 hour ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

This guy gets it. 

The Giants are Eli or a rookie. 

Other than that you will have to hope an owner or GM all of a sudden sees it in Nick and wants to make him a franchise QB—it’s not happening at 30. 

Ya I see this as a Keenum type contract.  Maybe a bit better.  2 years, 30 guaranteed is my guess.  We can debate all we want whether or not he's worth it, but the market dictates that.  I just don't think OTHER teams believe that he's a future franchise guy to build their team around.  Jax makes a lot of sense.

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8 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

the one where foles got facemasked?

i don't know the specific probabilities, but I have no doubt that they have all the scenario analyses to defend why they did it.  As Pip mentioned a few times in the game thread, something may have been off with Elliott today, which may have also affected the calculation.

Elliot had an injury designation with (illness) most of the week with Jeffrey. Both missed practice at points this week and Kamu was seen practicing his kicking just in case. Elliot didn't look right all day on KOs. It may have had a little to do with it. Plus after the missed XP by HOU Doug probably figured he could steal a point. Plus kicking it would have been up 5 with a Field goal a TD plus 2 ties the game where as if the Eagles got the 6 and a FG it's essentially a 2 score game. If you followed all of that. 

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5 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Next week game at 425.

That's huge for me. If they need me to work I can always do 9-4 now. 25 mins to get ready for the game. 

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5 hours ago, need2know said:

Part of me wants to keep Nick.  Is that blasphemy

I do but not at what it'd cost us. I know the QB room and Eagles know what's up but do we really want if Carson struggles the idiots calling to run Wentz out of town? I like Foles but to me just like Brady he's a systems QB. Another System Foles probably isn't as good where as I feel NE has a great system with Brady. Put Brady in Was or Clevland do you think his career is where it's at today? Either way I'm loving the Foles success after that ####### former coach traded him for a QB who's known as the biggest thief in NFL history then for anything he's actually done on the field. It's a big Middle Finger to said coach. 

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5 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

You really don’t want this guy going to the NYG.

Nah NYG would ruin him. Plus theres reports Eli may have played his way to another year or 2 in NYG which is fine with the rest of the NFC East

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4 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

I hate the Giants, so I’d hate to see him there, but they’ll be able to get a top 2 OL in the draft. Not sure what their cap space looks like, but if they just go all-in on offense, I’d think they can address. 

I’d think this was just a down season for Solder, then the top 1 or 2 OLs in the draft. Add in some other work in FA, idk. 

I hope I’m just spitballing, but it seems very reasonable. 

Jax is a steaming dumpster fire, they’re not a good franchise. Last year was the anomaly - IDK, I don’t consider that a great landing spot.  

Usually when NE cuts ties with you they pretty much know whats up. I remember a lot of NE fans being unhappy with his poor play over the last 2 yrs. 

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5 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Yeah “liking it here” is a ridiculous reason to give up on that amount of money.  He has a family.

Liking it here might be part of the family thing. He said in his book he decided to stay here because of his family and his wife about do in the birth. They knew the area and said it was perfect to raise their daughter. I

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Man I've never seen such fans rationalize about a player like Foles. "System QB blah, blah, blah" The guy is winning--once again--the most important games of the year. He is wired differently and as one poster mentioned, maybe he takes whatever top money is offered him even if to use for charitable reasons. He and his family are extremely wealthy. He doesn't need it the way we might think. I'd be heartbroken to see him go to some hell hole like Jacksonville. 

The main reason he may need to go is to protect Wentz's psyche. I'll admit I've lost a bit of love for Wentz. I think he knew he was hurt longer than anyone else and yet selfishly kept playing. He's human, I understand it and he's an ultra competitor (although he sure as hell doesn't win games when it's on the line like Foles does). But can you imagine if Foles stays and this kind of run would happen again?!?!?

Its a crazy scenario but it's probably in the team's best interest for the sake of their franchise figure head to let Foles go elswhere.

Although if Foles wins it all again, put me in the camp for keeping him even if it means trading Wentz. I don't care how crazy that sounds. Argue all you want about Wentz's skills, Foles is a champion. 

It might be the best thing for Wentz if the improbable happens and Foles wins it again. How could the guy live in that shadow? The pressure would be immense. It's already caused massive pressure this year to "win one for Carson." Now that's he's out--look how the entire team plays for Foles. He has the intangible factor. 

Edited by Kwai Chang Caine

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I love Foles. Best backup in the league. And better than quite a few starters in the league. But there is no chance he's back with the Eagles next year. Jacksonville seems like the most likely spot. But Philly can't throw 20 million at him when Wentz is going to be getting 30 million a year later.  And as much as he loves the Eagles,  he's obviously not going to sign up for 25 or 30% of his value. If he was only in his second year, his stock would be much higher. Unfortunately, the league has seen him in a starting role and he's never been consistent. I think the Case Keenum from last year comparison is a good one. And I think he will get a similar contract from someone. 

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7 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Man I've never seen such fans rationalize about a player like Foles. "System QB blah, blah, blah" The guy is winning--once again--the most important games of the year. He is wired differently and as one poster mentioned, maybe he takes whatever top money is offered him even if to use for charitable reasons. He and his family are extremely wealthy. He doesn't need it the way we might think. I'd be heartbroken to see him go to some hell hole like Jacksonville. 

The main reason he may need to go is to protect Wentz's psyche. I'll admit I've lost a bit of love for Wentz. I think he knew he was hurt longer than anyone else and yet selfishly kept playing. He's human, I understand it and he's an ultra competitor (although he sure as hell doesn't win games when it's on the line like Foles does). But can you imagine if Foles stays and this kind of run would happen again?!?!?

Its a crazy scenario but it's probably in the team's best interest for the sake of their franchise figure head to let Foles go elswhere.

Although if Foles wins it all again, put me in the camp for keeping him even if it means trading Wentz. I don't care how crazy that sounds. Argue all you want about Wentz's skills, Foles is a champion. 

It might be the best thing for Wentz if the improbable happens and Foles wins it again. How could the guy live in that shadow? The pressure would be immense. It's already caused massive pressure this year to "win one for Carson." Now that's he's out--look how the entire team plays for Foles. He has the intangible factor. 

Zero point zero percent chance of that happening.  You have a very short memory. just one year ago, Carson Wentz was the best quarterback in the entire league. Better than Brady. Better than Brees. Better than anyone. You're now letting a year where he had zero offseason training with his receivers or a training camp, and is playing far less than 100% healthy wipe away what we all saw just a year ago?  Nick Foles has been around awhile. We know what he is.  You will find out in the offseason when you see the offers that Foles gets. The GM's in the league know what he is too. He can get very hot at times. He can also play like he did the first two games this season. Or an entire season with the Rams. Or his second season under Chip Kelly.  You don't give up a top 3 quarterback in the entire league for a guy who's basically a journeyman who can get hot at times.

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6 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

I do but not at what it'd cost us. I know the QB room and Eagles know what's up but do we really want if Carson struggles the idiots calling to run Wentz out of town? I like Foles but to me just like Brady he's a systems QB. Another System Foles probably isn't as good where as I feel NE has a great system with Brady. Put Brady in Was or Clevland do you think his career is where it's at today? Either way I'm loving the Foles success after that ####### former coach traded him for a QB who's known as the biggest thief in NFL history then for anything he's actually done on the field. It's a big Middle Finger to said coach. 

:lmao:

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21 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Zero point zero percent chance of that happening.  You have a very short memory. just one year ago, Carson Wentz was the best quarterback in the entire league. Better than Brady. Better than Brees. Better than anyone. You're now letting a year where he had zero offseason training with his receivers or a training camp, and is playing far less than 100% healthy wipe away what we all saw just a year ago?  Nick Foles has been around awhile. We know what he is.  You will find out in the offseason when you see the offers that Foles gets. The GM's in the league know what he is too. He can get very hot at times. He can also play like he did the first two games this season. Or an entire season with the Rams. Or his second season under Chip Kelly.  You don't give up a top 3 quarterback in the entire league for a guy who's basically a journeyman who can get hot at times.

While I agree with your overall point, the bolded is pretty funny.  That said, if you were trying to "Brady's a system QB", you came up short.

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7 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

While I agree with your overall point, the bolded is pretty funny.  That said, if you were trying to "Brady's a system QB", you came up short.

I think Brady is a top three QB to ever play the game. This was not an anti Brady post. I was stating that last season, Carson Wentz was the best quarterback in the league before he got hurt.

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8 hours ago, Deamon said:

Ya I see this as a Keenum type contract.  Maybe a bit better.  2 years, 30 guaranteed is my guess.  We can debate all we want whether or not he's worth it, but the market dictates that.  I just don't think OTHER teams believe that he's a future franchise guy to build their team around.  Jax makes a lot of sense.

This!

Eagles fans can spin it however they want to rationalize it, and I understand that, nobody wants to see the guy go.

NFL GMs see the same stuff we see, this guy is a winner, his teammates love him, and given the opportunity he is a leader. 

AFTER winning a SB last year, he’s now 4-1 as the starter this year, including an already very memorable December. 

All it takes is one GM, and I absolutely believe there will be. I think he’ll be between a Keenum like deal and a true franchise QB deal. I’d think the headline will be something like 4/90 with about $28-30 on the 4th year at a team option and like $40ish guaranteed. 

This is what the market dictates imo, and that is the most important force.

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19 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

This!

Eagles fans can spin it however they want to rationalize it, and I understand that, nobody wants to see the guy go.

NFL GMs see the same stuff we see, this guy is a winner, his teammates love him, and given the opportunity he is a leader. 

AFTER winning a SB last year, he’s now 4-1 as the starter this year, including an already very memorable December. 

All it takes is one GM, and I absolutely believe there will be. I think he’ll be between a Keenum like deal and a true franchise QB deal. I’d think the headline will be something like 4/90 with about $28-30 on the 4th year at a team option and like $40ish guaranteed. 

This is what the market dictates imo, and that is the most important force.

GMs also see his entire career.  By the way, he's 3-1 this year. Not 4-1. I think Kernums deal is about the best he can hope for. Which would be awesome for a guy who was pretty much written off altogether after failing with the Rams. In an ideal world, he'd be the Eagles backup forever. They have the best two QBs in the division. Unfortunately, he deserves his own payday and starting gig. I just don't think he'll be viewed by any teams as an elite QB. 

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Comparing Foles to Keenum should qualify as an automatic confiscation of your fan card. 

Jesus I get it, Wentz is our “chosen one” but my God the disrespect in here for what Foles has done the last two years just boggles my mind. 

You guys realize Foles wouldn’t be the first QB to improve with age and wisdom? You all keep citing his streakiness from years past. I usually look at this group as amongst the most knowledgeable here but I’m just shaking my head. Some of you are too “Football savy” for your own good and refuse to believe what your eyes are telling you. But whatever. I’m grateful for Foles last year and already the magic of this year. 

Who knows if Wentz will even have a full career with the way he keeps getting hurt. 

 

Anyway, happy holidays, I’m done arguing. Like Big Red said, Enjoy the win man!

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Honestly don't understand how anyone could prefer Foles over Wentz. Foles is a solid QB and a great team-mate/leader, but he's like Eli Manning. He can get hot at times but for the most part you're gonna need something else working to have long term sustained success with him. He's a guy who deserves a starting gig, but he does NOT have top 5 upside year in year out...Carson does.

Will Carson reach that? I think so, but it's possible he doesn't. Either way, you don't give away the chance at the next Aaron Rodgers to keep Eli Manning.

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1 minute ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Comparing Foles to Keenum should qualify as an automatic confiscation of your fan card. 

Jesus I get it, Wentz is our “chosen one” but my God the disrespect in here for what Foles has done the last two years just boggles my mind. 

You guys realize Foles wouldn’t be the first QB to improve with age and wisdom? You all keep citing his streakiness from years past. I usually look at this group as amongst the most knowledgeable here but I’m just shaking my head. Some of you are too “Football savy” for your own good and refuse to believe what your eyes are telling you. But whatever. I’m grateful for Foles last year and already the magic of this year. 

Who knows if Wentz will even have a full career with the way he keeps getting hurt. 

 

Anyway, happy holidays, I’m done arguing. Like Big Red said, Enjoy the win man!

But you can't pick and choose which games you decide you're going to trust your eyes. Did you see how he played at the end of last regular season?  Or his two starts to kick off this season?  He's very streaky. GMs know that. Howie knows that.  Wentz was not streaky last year. He was awesome. Every game. Better than any other quarterback in this league. far exceeded what we hoped we were getting when we traded for the draft pick. I only had a franchise quarterback, we had a Rogers-level quarterback. And because he played her this year and wasn't at 100%, it just blows my mind how Eagles fans forget about that. They totally forgot all those seasons where they were hoping they could get a shot at an elite quarterback.  Jared Goff's stats last two games featured one touchdown and 7 interceptions.  Do you think Rams fans are looking for a replacement? My God, my mind is exploding with how crazy some people in this fan base are. Go look at Nick Foles career stats. He's had one great season under Chip Kelly, and two bad seasons. Those are his three years as a starter in this league. And Eagle fans want to throw out their sleep franchise quarterback for a journeyman who gets hot once in awhile.  I wish I could make this argument without making it sound like I'm cuttin up Foles. What he brought to this city last year answered a dream that I've had all my life. But I think it made some people lose their freaking minds. If they were to somehow let another team have Carson Wentz, we would officially become the worst franchise in the league. And the entire rest of the league and its fans will be laughing their asses off at us as he goes on with his Hall of Fame career and we have Nick Foles.

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10 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Comparing Foles to Keenum should qualify as an automatic confiscation of your fan card. 

Jesus I get it, Wentz is our “chosen one” but my God the disrespect in here for what Foles has done the last two years just boggles my mind. 

You guys realize Foles wouldn’t be the first QB to improve with age and wisdom? You all keep citing his streakiness from years past. I usually look at this group as amongst the most knowledgeable here but I’m just shaking my head. Some of you are too “Football savy” for your own good and refuse to believe what your eyes are telling you. But whatever. I’m grateful for Foles last year and already the magic of this year. 

Who knows if Wentz will even have a full career with the way he keeps getting hurt. 

 

Anyway, happy holidays, I’m done arguing. Like Big Red said, Enjoy the win man!

It's not dis-respect for Foles dude. See my last post...it's like keeping Eli instead of taking a chance at a Rodgers. Foles DESERVES a starting gig, and to be paid well...but his upside isn't close to Carson's

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1 minute ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

I wrote a post days ago outlining the Arctic conditions of last year’s games. Nobody is scoring much in those conditions. 

First two games this year—no Jeffrey and a crap running game. Wentz played like crap too a bunch of times. You guys gonna own that? 

Anyway, I realize Wentz will be here and Foles won’t. But to “yeah but..” this guy over and over and compare him to players of Keenum’s ilk blows my mind. 

Yes, a healthy Foles is as good as a 75% healthy Wentz. why don't you compare Foles' performance to Wentz's last year?  As for the keenum comparison, I think it's going to be very close to accurate once he signs somewhere else. You will see.  It's very similar. Gm's were debating over the very average keenum they've seen a lot of and the very good Keenum we saw for one season with the Vikings. And tried to decide if he just got hot at the right time or if he improved as he got older. They will be making that same decision with Foles 

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45 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Comparing Foles to Keenum should qualify as an automatic confiscation of your fan card.

At the risk of further damaging my case of owning a fan card,  I will remind you of a little facts from 2015. Nick Foles was given the Rams starting job. He was terrible all season and eventually lost his job to...wait for it....Case Keenum. 

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People need to stop thinking praising one is disrespecting the other. Foles is good. Wentz is also good. One is younger than the other. Simple as that. 

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8 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

At the risk of further damaging my case of owning a fan card,  I will remind you of a little facts from 2015. Nick Foles was given the Rams starting job. He was terrible all season and eventually lost his job to...wait for it....Case Keenum. 

But seriously dude. It's been well documented how bad Fisher was as a QB coach near the end. Goff was thought to be a giant bust because if Fisher. Keenum sucked also. 2 years removed from Fisher and all 3 QBs lead their teams to the playoffs. 2 to the NFC championship game. 1 wins the super bowl. 

Moral of the story. Don't use Jeff Fisher coached teams as examples of a player being bad. It was most likely the coach. He'd make Brady and Manning look below average.

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2 minutes ago, Insein said:

But seriously dude. It's been well documented how bad Fisher was as a QB coach near the end. Goff was thought to be a giant bust because if Fisher. Keenum sucked also. 2 years removed from Fisher and all 3 QBs lead their teams to the playoffs. 2 to the NFC championship game. 1 wins the super bowl. 

Moral of the story. Don't use Jeff Fisher coached teams as examples of a player being bad. It was most likely the coach. He'd make Brady and Manning look below average.

I also think Jeff Fisher was a terrible coach. I was simply responding to a dumb statement that was said to me. Acting like it's absurd to compare Keenan with Foles when Keenum actually beat Foles out the year they were on the same team. Both play for the same coach by the way.

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58 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I also think Jeff Fisher was a terrible coach. I was simply responding to a dumb statement that was said to me. Acting like it's absurd to compare Keenan with Foles when Keenum actually beat Foles out the year they were on the same team. Both play for the same coach by the way.

Dumb statement? Keenum = Foles??? You’re wrong man. Simply wrong. 

Edited by Kwai Chang Caine

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