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Yogibear

Should Pat Tillman be allowed in the Pro Football Hall of Fame?

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I don't know why, but every time in the last several years whenever there's been an Arizona Cardinals game, Cris Collinsworth always makes a case for Pat Tillman to be in the Hall of Fame.  I don't know about any of you, but if Pat Tillman ever gets in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, then there's no reason for me to go there ever again. The reason: Pat Tillman WAS NOT a good NFL player, and while he will always be remembered for what he did in dying for this country as an American soldier, his NFL career was one to forget.  Yes, I know his statue sits outside their stadium and that the Cardinals did retire his #40 jersey, BUT, a person gets into the Pro Football Hall of Fame for what they do on the GRIDIRON, not in the battlefield or combat zone of war!  If anyone thinks Cris Collinsworth should discontinue his campaign to put Pat Tillman in the Hall of Fame, then please feel free to comment!

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I mean he is famous...  Maybe "Hall of Famous Cool Dudes that got shot by their own friends".  Not really the NFL HOF though.

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A small display to honor his sacrifice? Perhaps.

As a player? :no:

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The answer here is painfully obvious and doesn’t need a thread. It likely belongs in the “stupid things announcer say” thread..where, coincidentally Collinsworth would be HOF member. 

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12 minutes ago, Pimpin Ain't Easy said:

Only player I'm aware of that gave his life for his Country.

 

 

Not true.....Google is your friend. 

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1 hour ago, Pimpin Ain't Easy said:

Only player I'm aware of that gave his life for his Country.

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Not true.....Google is your friend. 

If you look up the name Bob Kalsu on Wikipedia, it'll tell that HE was the first former football player to die for his country as a soldier before Pat Tillman did.

And for those who've never heard of Bob Kalsu, he was drafted by the Buffalo Bills in 1968 back when there the AFL was still around.  Bob Kalsu was killed in the Vietnam War, over 5 years before I was born.  He died in combat at the age of 25.  Pat Tillman died at the age of 27 when he was killed in combat after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And, no, I don't think Bob Kalsu belongs in the Hall of Fame, either!

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I'm going to have to correct myself on many fronts in this case: Bob Kalsu wasn't the only former football player who died in just the Vietnam War.  Don Steinbrunner died in the Vietnam War as well at the age of 35.  He played with the Cleveland Browns in 1953.

There were even a couple of former football players who died while they were serving in World War II: Al Blozis and Jack Lummus.  Al Blozis played with the New York Giants from 1942 to 1944 before he died in combat one year later.  Jack Lummus played with the Giants one year before Al Blozis started his tenure.  But, like Blozis, who died in France during World War II, Lummus died in Japan during World War II.

There were a couple of other guys who played football in college that didn't even make it to the NFL: Don Holleder and Nile Kinnick.  Holleder is a former Heisman Trophy winner who was killed in the Vietnam War while Kinnick died during World War II.

Glen Coffee was the most recent football player (pro or college) to serve in the Armed Forces, but he's still with us (which, is a good thing!)  Coffee was selected by the San Francisco 49ers and played one season before serving in the Army from 2013 to last year.

But, let's get to the point of what I was trying to get at in the 1st place: Just because someone played in the NFL or college and went on to serve our country, that doesn't make you eligible for the Hall of Fame!

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12 minutes ago, Yogibear said:

 

If you look up the name Bob Kalsu on Wikipedia, it'll tell that HE was the first former football player to die for his country as a soldier before Pat Tillman did.

And for those who've never heard of Bob Kalsu, he was drafted by the Buffalo Bills in 1968 back when there the AFL was still around.  Bob Kalsu was killed in the Vietnam War, over 5 years before I was born.  He died in combat at the age of 25.  Pat Tillman died at the age of 27 when he was killed in combat after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And, no, I don't think Bob Kalsu belongs in the Hall of Fame, either!

Kalso didn't "voluntarily" retire in his prime to serve his country.  He was fulfilling his ROTC obligation.  That doesn't make Kalso's sacrifice any less, but it is a meaningfully different scenario.  Tillman was a fairly unique guy who made a fairly unique decision.  I also disagree that he was not a good football player - he was.  He wasn't a HOF worthy NFL player though and he shouldn't be in the Hall as a player.

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On second thought, maybe a display including all these guys who served? Include Tillman but also the rest of these guys including coffee, whom many seem to forget.

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10 hours ago, Yogibear said:

... if Pat Tillman ever gets in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, then there's no reason for me to go there ever again. 

Was there really a reason before?

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Not as a player per se, but I’d love to see some type of wall/area at the Hall where players who died in the service of the country are honored.  

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39 minutes ago, irish eyes said:

Hey, at least you can go see the bust of the murdering ray lewis at HOF. Now there is someone who deserved to be in there. Geesh

That's completely irrelevant in this discussion but if you really want to complain, http://www.profootballhof.com/players/oj-simpson/

The rules of the Hall of Fame voting state that only on-field performance, not character issues, are to be taken into account

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14 hours ago, -OZ- said:

A small display to honor his sacrifice? Perhaps.

As a player? :no:

This is where I'm at. They have a lot of ancillary items and stories in the Hall. As a player, no way. He never had that kind of career. But if they want to put a footnote side story of him somewhere in the building, I think it would be acceptable.

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Also this whole conversation is based around an idea Chris Collins worth had. So yeah... :mellow:

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15 minutes ago, Insein said:

This is where I'm at. They have a lot of ancillary items and stories in the Hall. As a player, no way. He never had that kind of career. But if they want to put a footnote side story of him somewhere in the building, I think it would be acceptable.

If there is an exhibit on how football responded to 9/11 he should be included in that, but not as an enshrine.

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

That's completely irrelevant in this discussion but if you really want to complain, http://www.profootballhof.com/players/oj-simpson/

The rules of the Hall of Fame voting state that only on-field performance, not character issues, are to be taken into account

As all Halls of Fame should be.

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15 hours ago, Yogibear said:

I don't know about any of you, but if Pat Tillman ever gets in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, then there's no reason for me to go there ever again. 

I'm not saying he should get in, but why would it be so offensive to you if he did? We'd all know the real reason why he did, and at least its a noble one.

 

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm not saying he should get in, but why would it be so offensive to you if he did? We'd all know the real reason why he did, and at least its a noble one.

 

Humperdink suffers?

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3 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Humperdink suffers?

I'm not sure what I am missing here.

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm not sure what I am missing here.

Miracle Max Scene from The Princess Bride. 

 

Sorry, my brains have been spilling out of my ears for the last several weeks.  I'll see if I can't find somebody to mop up the mess.

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I respect him as a man, but off the field accolades or screw ups have never been a deciding factor in getting into the hall, not sure they should be

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