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Dr. Octopus

2019 New York Jets: Our GM can beat up your GM

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On 2/20/2018 at 8:33 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

While $4MM a year may be a slight low-ball offer, what does this guy really think he's getting on the market?

I was surprised that turned this down. Still plenty of chance to do well and cash in on the next deal.  I still think he signs unless someone blows him away which I really can't see considering his past and how he really hasn't proven much yet.

Regarding him fading down the stretch, you have to discount the Petty factor. They were pretty bad offensively. He did have a couple of tds taken away from him, too.

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36 minutes ago, NYRAGE said:

I hate to type this, but Manish bringing some sanity to these Cousins rumors:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-feel-signing-qb-kirk-cousins-article-1.3835520

I can’t stand Mehta but I said the same thing above. Those rumors are just stupid.

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NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Steelers are "listening to potential deals" for Martavis Bryant.

Rapoport made it a point to say the Steelers aren't necessarily shopping Bryant, but it sounds like they're all ears to offers. Bryant made a big stink midway through last season when he felt he wasn't playing enough, and the Steelers then made him a healthy scratch for Week 8. Bryant quit the social media complaining but was a disappointment with a 52-681-4 line. JuJu Smith-Schuster has emerged as the Steelers' No. 2 wideout. Bryant has one year left on his deal.

 

I wanted the Jets to draft this guy in 2014 - and what did they do? They drafted two WRs in the 4th round while Bryant was still available, Jalen Saunders and Shaq Evans.

It would be great if they could get him for a late round pick now.

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taking forever to get to FA....with Jax officially out Cousins becoming more of a possibility....however need to have plan B in place and the more I think about it the more I would like to move on from McCown....there is no guarantee that any of the QBs falls to 6 and Im not confident nor interested in selling the farm for Mayfield (Rosen or Darnold is another story) and Allen scares me as a Hack like clone that they already proved they cant develop

So if they whiff on Cousins I'd like to see the Jets bring in a young QB with upside that wouldnt prevent them from drafting a QB at #6...Bridgewater and McCaron are high on my list.  Both young with upside - both would likely cost more than McCown - likely Glennon type contract but I like the idea of young protection in case the chips dont fall their way at the draft.  They can't risk missing out on all the top QBs and getting stuck with McCown and another project like Allen, Lamar Jackson, etc.....that type of QB would require another young QB to compete with.  

Good news with this plan B is I view Minn as real competition for Cousins so if Min gets him then Bridgewater should be available

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34 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

taking forever to get to FA....with Jax officially out Cousins becoming more of a possibility....however need to have plan B in place and the more I think about it the more I would like to move on from McCown....there is no guarantee that any of the QBs falls to 6 and Im not confident nor interested in selling the farm for Mayfield (Rosen or Darnold is another story) and Allen scares me as a Hack like clone that they already proved they cant develop

So if they whiff on Cousins I'd like to see the Jets bring in a young QB with upside that wouldnt prevent them from drafting a QB at #6...Bridgewater and McCaron are high on my list.  Both young with upside - both would likely cost more than McCown - likely Glennon type contract but I like the idea of young protection in case the chips dont fall their way at the draft.  They can't risk missing out on all the top QBs and getting stuck with McCown and another project like Allen, Lamar Jackson, etc.....that type of QB would require another young QB to compete with.  

Good news with this plan B is I view Minn as real competition for Cousins so if Min gets him then Bridgewater should be available

That's the way I'm looking at it as well - and in some ways it may be the better strategy for long term health as opposed to Cousins (ETA: But I'm still hoping they land Cousins and we'll worry about cap space when we have to). Personally I'm not high on McCarron but at a reasonable price he's worth taking a shot on provided they still take a QB at 6.

I'm higher on Bridgewater than most people I know, and if his knee checked out with 100% certainty I would be ok with signing him and not drafting a QB until Round 3 or 4 and hope to find a diamond in the rough (i.e. Cousins, Prescott, Wilson, etc). In that scenario I am obviously viewing Bridgewater as a potential franchise level QB, and hedging a little. In a best case scenario Bridgewater leads the team and the rookie either develops into a solid backup or trade bait down the road.

If I knew with certainty that Mayfield would fall to 6 - and of course we will not know that - then I'd be ok with bringing McCown back. Since we can't count on that - I agree, just let him go elsewhere, as journeymen type QBs rarely follow up career years.

I expect Darnold and Rosen to both be gone by pick 3 which, as we know creates a real problem for the Jets (some one will/can move up to jump us for Mayfield). I also want no part of Josh Allen and I'd only be ok with Lamar Jackson if he fell to Round 2 (once again we can't count on that happening).

This offseason is killing me. I really can't wait to see what happens. This is a franchise defining offseason. They can't blow it.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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I think we all have to hope the Andrew Luck news stays positive as well - just imagine some bad news comes out there. Then we wouldn't only just have to worry about some one trading up into that spot, but would need to worry about the Colts themselves taking a QB there.

It's conceivable that 4 QBs are gone before the Jets even pick. 

 

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On 2/23/2018 at 2:35 PM, Jello_Biafra said:

I think Robbie Anderson can be a WR1 for the Jets, if he can stay out of trouble. Would be nice to have a veteran who could show him the ropes. Bryant is not that guy.

I would love to see it, but I wouldn't bet on it.  He's got talent, but he's immature and not the sharpest tool in the shed. It's going to be difficult to commit money to him if he continues to be knucklehead.

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Today's buzz is that the Vikings won't tag Keenum and are high on Cousins. Not good for us, but like Octopus wrote above, it might open up Bridgewater.

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8 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think we all have to hope the Andrew Luck news stays positive as well - just imagine some bad news comes out there. Then we wouldn't only just have to worry about some one trading up into that spot, but would need to worry about the Colts themselves taking a QB there.

It's conceivable that 4 QBs are gone before the Jets even pick. 

 

my fear is if we are in that situation the colts say nothing then bang - shock the world and grab a QB completely throwing the Jets for a loop.....thats why they need to get a Teddy backup if not Cousins....I still would grab a QB at #6 if they have him but only if its worth it instead of desperation

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11 hours ago, TLEF316 said:

I don't know how they're going to blow this off-season but I do feel it coming

This is the most important offseason I can remember - the direction of the franchise for a decade hangs in the balance....really hoping they have a good plan with lots of contingencies and can execute it.  Whiffing this offseason or a repeat of the one a few yrs back when they had $ would be brutal.  

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Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline reports the Jets and impending free agent C/G Weston Richburg have mutual interest.

According to Pauline, this "is something both sides want to happen," and the Giants are "unlikely" to re-sign their starting center. It would create yet another gaping hole on the Giants' offensive line, a place new GM Dave Gettleman has his work cut out for him. Richburg turns 27 this summer and can play either guard or center. He's Rotoworld's Evan Silva's No. 2 free agent interior lineman.

 

Let's do it.

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Buh-bye Mo.  First Revis, then Marshall, RIchardson and Mo. Getting rid of all the bad eggs.

Now if we can only get rid of Bowles......ducks for cover.

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17 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Forte retired. 

He would have been released anyway. Most of his career was spent as a Bear, but he had a great career and I wish him the best. The guy was limited by the time he got here but he still gave it his all and found a way.

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According to SNY's Ralph Vacchiano, there is "rampant speculation around the league" that free agent Kirk Cousins is "destined" to sign with the Vikings. Analysis: Vacchiano isn't a Vikings reporter, but he is covering the league currently at the NFL Combine. We've separately heard whispers Minnesota is Cousins' likeliest destination, but the Jets and Broncos will also make a strong push. It sounds like folks gathering in Indianapolis are whispering more loudly that Cousins-to-Minnesota is a probable match. Free agency will begin on Friday, March 16.

This obviously doesn't mean much at this stage, but it does reiterate the need for a back-up plan.

Leave it to the Jets to stink, but not quite stink enough, in a year where there were so many bad teams and so many teams in need of a QB.

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11 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

This obviously doesn't mean much at this stage, but it does reiterate the need for a back-up plan.

Leave it to the Jets to stink, but not quite stink enough, in a year where there were so many bad teams and so many teams in need of a QB.

this is where the rooting for a "tank" by playing younger players was justified.- so what exactly did playing McCown most of the season achieve?  As predicted they won just enough to be out of the mix.....should have started Hack and Petty no matter how ugly for one season and they'd be sitting with the #2 overall pick....frustrating.  

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7 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

this is where the rooting for a "tank" by playing younger players was justified.- so what exactly did playing McCown most of the season achieve?  As predicted they won just enough to be out of the mix.....should have started Hack and Petty no matter how ugly for one season and they'd be sitting with the #2 overall pick....frustrating.  

Trade up with the colts

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3 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

this is where the rooting for a "tank" by playing younger players was justified.- so what exactly did playing McCown most of the season achieve?  As predicted they won just enough to be out of the mix.....should have started Hack and Petty no matter how ugly for one season and they'd be sitting with the #2 overall pick....frustrating.  

Let me channel someone on this board: you're still not talking about tanking are you?

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6 hours ago, NYRAGE said:

Let me channel someone on this board: you're still not talking about tanking are you?

I know we've had this debate = again its playing younger players (especially at QB) not "tanking" - I should just refer to it as the "Hack" plan as I equate it to tanking because with Hack and/or Petty starting all yr I am confident they would be sitting at #2 and possibly a new coaching staff.....sitting at #6 with the same very shaky coaching staff is very frustrating to me.  If Cousins doesnt sign it would take a huge stroke of luck to have one of the 2 blue chippers fall to them.  

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Exactly. Rooting for the tank (for lack of a better term) was always logical in this scenario. I still don't get how everyone didn't see it. This year was a complete waste (especially now that you consider that one of the team's 2 or 3 bright spots got arrested again)

Hope that win over the bills made everyone feel good for a couple of hours

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10 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Trade up with the colts

1.  still possible that both blue chippers are gone

2.  if one is available its going to take a big deal to move up even 3 spots....those are assets the team needs and should have kept rather than playing for a meaningless 5 win season.  

it's done - dont mean to rehash old wounds - I just knew this would annoy me as it gets closer to the draft...if they sign Cousins the issue is moot so another reason to root for them to sign him.....although it looks like Minn and Denver is gearing up for a run.  

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12 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Trade up with the colts

So playing McCown costs them a 2nd and 4th round pick.  Minimum

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2 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

I know we've had this debate = again its playing younger players (especially at QB) not "tanking" - I should just refer to it as the "Hack" plan as I equate it to tanking because with Hack and/or Petty starting all yr I am confident they would be sitting at #2 and possibly a new coaching staff.....sitting at #6 with the same very shaky coaching staff is very frustrating to me.  If Cousins doesnt sign it would take a huge stroke of luck to have one of the 2 blue chippers fall to them.  

After they got blown out in Week 2 by the Raiders, they had the perfect opportunity to switch to Petty/Hack. It was so obvious to all (most) of us that playing McCown was idiotic. I realize Bowles has to have the mentality of trying to win and is coaching for his job so I can't totally fault him - but Mac and/or some one above him should have stepped in and said we must play the young QBs - even if they handed him an extension right there for playing along.

That three game winning streak following the Week 2 loss could potentially set this franchise back for years unless they do end up signing Cousins or get lucky in the draft.

Sometimes I ask myself why do I put myself through this? Right now I want to fast forward to free agency because I can't take the stress of seeing how this plays out.

I'm living in fear of watching them sign Sam Bradford and drafting a CB at 6.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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1 hour ago, Kiddnets said:

1.  still possible that both blue chippers are gone

 

if you mean Darnold and Rosen....perhaps....I don't think Josh Allen is any worse. Perhaps the Jets could snag Baker at 1.06 but being behind the Broncos is the real kicker there.

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Just now, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

if you mean Darnold and Rosen....perhaps....I don't think Josh Allen is any worse. Perhaps the Jets could snag Baker at 1.06 but being behind the Broncos is the real kicker there.

I think Josh Allen will be a major bust - which means the Jets probably move up to 1 to take him.

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1 hour ago, TLEF316 said:

Exactly. Rooting for the tank (for lack of a better term) was always logical in this scenario. I still don't get how everyone didn't see it. This year was a complete waste (especially now that you consider that one of the team's 2 or 3 bright spots got arrested again)

Hope that win over the bills made everyone feel good for a couple of hours

But...but....but....PLAYOFFS?!?!?!
 

Idiotic shortsightedness. 

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4 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

I know we've had this debate = again its playing younger players (especially at QB) not "tanking" - I should just refer to it as the "Hack" plan as I equate it to tanking because with Hack and/or Petty starting all yr I am confident they would be sitting at #2 and possibly a new coaching staff.....sitting at #6 with the same very shaky coaching staff is very frustrating to me.  If Cousins doesnt sign it would take a huge stroke of luck to have one of the 2 blue chippers fall to them.  

I'm teasing. I got ripped for suggesting that we play the young guys and rooting for the tank.

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9 minutes ago, NYRAGE said:

I'm teasing. I got ripped for suggesting that we play the young guys and rooting for the tank.

Where is @Fariq? I hope he's happy about the mess he got us into. :D

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

After they got blown out in Week 2 by the Raiders, they had the perfect opportunity to switch to Petty/Hack. It was so obvious to all (most) of us that playing McCown was idiotic. I realize Bowles has to have the mentality of trying to win and is coaching for his job so I can't totally fault him - but Mac and/or some one above him should have stepped in and said we must play the young QBs - even if they handed him an extension right there for playing along.

That three game winning streak following the Week 2 loss could potentially set this franchise back for years unless they do end up signing Cousins or get lucky in the draft.

Sometimes I ask myself why do I put myself through this? Right now I want to fast forward to free agency because I can't take the stress of seeing how this plays out.

I'm living in fear of watching them sign Sam Bradford and drafting a CB at 6.

The problem is that Bowles doesn't report to McCagnan in this dysfunctional reporting hierarchy. Bowles was trying to save his job instead of what was good for the Jets long term. Luckily for him and not us, he somehow won 5 games to save his job. Yes, a low bar.  One might argue that McCagnan was doing the same, but he can use the reporting hierarchy excuse I mentioned.

It made no sense to start a 38 year old QB. Maybe Hack is just terrible, but what a waste of a second rounder to just not even play him once in a game. Shameful.

Tanking has a dirty connotation, but what is wrong with playing young players to evaluate them to see what you have going forward? There is a difference between tanking (intentionally trying to lose) and just sucking. Almost no one would have had a problem with losing with the young guys as long as the team still gave a strong effort.

Well here we are. Still no QB. Not sure if we can get Cousins. Not sure if we can even get one in the first round at #6 without trading up.

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From a Bucky Brooks draft article on the NFL.com site. In regards to using a first round pick on a guard (Nelson):

 "I would rather spend draft capital on one of the marquee spots (quarterback, left tackle, pass rusher or cornerback) that impacts the passing game on either side of the ball."

Obviously this guy doesn't work for the Jets.

The last four drafts have been Safety, tiny LB, DT, and another safety (Crappy one at that).

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4 minutes ago, NYRAGE said:

From a Bucky Brooks draft article on the NFL.com site. In regards to using a first round pick on a guard (Nelson):

 "I would rather spend draft capital on one of the marquee spots (quarterback, left tackle, pass rusher or cornerback) that impacts the passing game on either side of the ball."

Obviously this guy doesn't work for the Jets.

The last four drafts have been Safety, tiny LB, DT, and another safety (Crappy one at that).

I said it in last year's thread but it's kind of telling (and sad)  that the Jets four biggest needs are at those impact positions (QB, OT, CB and OLB/Pass Rusher).

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

I said it in last year's thread but it's kind of telling (and sad)  that the Jets four biggest needs are at those impact positions (QB, OT, CB and OLB/Pass Rusher).

McCagnan doesn't believe in drafting linemen early. He either drafts them in the mid-rounds or acquires them through FA. I expect him to add a couple of linemen in FA.

If we sign Cousins, then I think he goes either CB or pass rusher with our 6th pick. If Cousins goes elsewhere, then I guess he goes CB in FA which he might do anyway. Hopefully the Cousins signing happens quickly with whatever team that may be.

We did pick up a couple of injured CBs in last year's draft. Hopefully one of them can surprise us this year, but hard to bet on that. Probably development guys.

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I just caught the new title of the thread and threw up in my mouth a bit....that would be beyond horrific!  

Jets were popular story for Cousins for 2 weeks now swings back to Minny/Denver...Denver would be better for draft but if Minny gets him then Teddy is available who I like along with a top QB in 1st...

$90M in cap room with a few cuts possible to get to $100M!

Barkley looks beastly at combine - no way he drops to #6....he's going #1 or 2 IMO - if that happens opens a chance to trade up with Colts to grab one of the blue chippers.....hope #6, top 2d rd pick, and a 2d next year get it done but if Denver is in the mix the price is gonna go up!  

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38 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

I just caught the new title of the thread and threw up in my mouth a bit....that would be beyond horrific!  

Jets were popular story for Cousins for 2 weeks now swings back to Minny/Denver...Denver would be better for draft but if Minny gets him then Teddy is available who I like along with a top QB in 1st...

$90M in cap room with a few cuts possible to get to $100M!

Barkley looks beastly at combine - no way he drops to #6....he's going #1 or 2 IMO - if that happens opens a chance to trade up with Colts to grab one of the blue chippers.....hope #6, top 2d rd pick, and a 2d next year get it done but if Denver is in the mix the price is gonna go up!  

I have also heard the Giants really like Nelson, the Notre Dame G, so it is possible (although probably unlikely) that the Jets could move up to the #2 spot to take a QB so the NYG can take Nelson at #6.

A trade up with Indy is also possible if Barkley or Chubb go in the top 2. In that scenario we could also take a chance that Mayfield or Rosen/Darnold (whichever the Browns don't take) fall to 6 - if Denver landed Cousins.

If we swing and miss on Cousins and Bridgewater, then trading up may be the only option. I hate that we would have to give up so many valuable assets that we need in order to do so, but QB HAS TO BE the team's top priority so it would be understandable. Of course if we do so and that guy busts, then we are sunk for a long time.

2017 could go down as "the 5 win season that sunk a franchise". Let's hope not.

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45 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

I just caught the new title of the thread and threw up in my mouth a bit....that would be beyond horrific!  

 

I based it on my nightmare scenario of missing out on Cousins and signing Bradford as the "franchise QB" and then taking a CB at #6.

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Even if Denver signs Cousins, they could trade with someone below us looking to move up for a QB. So I wouldn't necessarily call it a good thing.  Arizona and Buffalo can trade up.

So Barkley should go in the top 5 for sure. Does Chubb? It could still be Barkly and 4 QBs. Call that the nightmare scenario.  I'm not sure Nelson goes top 5 even if he's worth it some day.

If we're out of the Cousins sweepstakes, then it might be worth trading one of our second rounders to move up a couple of spots. We might have to trade more to ensure our second or third choice.

If Barkley goes first, then Indy's spot will be interesting.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 0:03 PM, NYRAGE said:

From a Bucky Brooks draft article on the NFL.com site. In regards to using a first round pick on a guard (Nelson):

 "I would rather spend draft capital on one of the marquee spots (quarterback, left tackle, pass rusher or cornerback) that impacts the passing game on either side of the ball."

Obviously this guy doesn't work for the Jets.

The last four drafts have been Safety, tiny LB, DT, and another safety (Crappy one at that).

which safety is the crappy one?

 

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did my monday am check of this thread and had to read Calvin Pryor's name?  yuck!  Perfect example of how awful the Jets scouting/drafting has been.....if you're going to go against the grain and spend a valuable 1st rder on a position like safety it better be a no brainer all pro for yrs....so of course they land Pryor who is gone before his rookie contract is up and the Pack draft Haha Clinton-Dix at same position a 3 picks later - I know it was Idzick/Rex and not current but theres a history here - that's why one team has struggled and the other is a model franchise.  Frustrating.  

Post combine thoughts - zero chance Barkley slips to #6....so at this point we know at least one non QB is drafted in the 1st 5 picks....he looks so good that if by some miracle he falls to #6 Id be ok grabbing him and going another direction at QB as long as they have a good contingency plan like Teddy.

Problem is I have zero faith in the Jets....I do think they will go hard after Kirk but in the end I just have the feeling he picks Minny....thats where the problems start....I think they LOVE McCown and want him back....they loved his attitude, leadership, moxy and he played well last yr....I think if they fail to sign Cousins they re-sign McCown instead of Teddy which would be a huge mistake.  The contingency plan needs to have a young QB to bridge/compete with the one they land in the draft...that way if the above happens they are not left with McCown/Allen or Jackson....that would be awful to me.

I could live with Teddy, Barkley/Chubb/Nelson and a trade up for Jackson/Allen using the 2d rd picks.  

Man I hope they have a bunch of contingencies - Mccown reeks of Fitz 2.0 and they need to get past that he is a great guy and competitor - if they love him so much bring him back as a QB coach and not a player...good teams no when to move on.  

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47 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

I could live with Teddy, Barkley/Chubb/Nelson and a trade up for Jackson/Allen using the 2d rd picks.  

Man I hope they have a bunch of contingencies - Mccown reeks of Fitz 2.0 and they need to get past that he is a great guy and competitor - if they love him so much bring him back as a QB coach and not a player...good teams no when to move on.  

I 100% agree. I like the guy (McCown) but he can't be the top option as a fall back to Cousins - just in case they get shut out at QB in the draft. Bridgewater (or McCarron if they like him) has to be plan B. If they go that way, then they aren't forced to take a QB at 6 even if 3 or more are gone already by that pick. If they sign McCown, then they almost have to.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, "at least a handful of teams" have shown interest in free agent Teddy Bridgewater as a potential starting quarterback.

He's reportedly seeking a one or two-year deal that would help rebuild his value after missing most of the last two seasons due to a knee injury. Bridgewater's balky knee and questionable arm strength are concerns, but the former first-round pick has 28 starts on his resume and is still just 25. He'd make sense for the Jets as a fallback for Kirk Cousins, who looks destined to sign with Minnesota. Bridgewater's hometown Dolphins could also be looking to upgrade at QB.

 

The bolded is the writer's speculation of course, but hopefully the Jets take heed.

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44 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

The bolded is the writer's speculation of course, but hopefully the Jets take heed.

I think McCaron ends up in Cleveland....Teddy will have suitors...Jets would likely have to pay a Glennon like deal to sign him.  It's a gamble but they have the $ and it would be way less than Cousins so why not....if structured right he could either be cut if a flop or locked in for a reasonable price while a rook develops - could even put them in a position where they could trade one for more assets if they both look good in 2018...wouldnt that be something! 

I hate to say it but McCown at this point is nothing more than a glorified QB coach who can play....there is no future or value to him....with Hack and Petty flopping even a bridge - get it lol - QB has to be young with upside.  

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