So like, 50% chance Lee is a pro bowl LB now that he is out of NY? I'm kidding, but I thought he played pretty well last year, after being a complete bum his first 2 seasons. He's arguably one of the 5 best cover LB's in the NFL, he's just not good at anything else. That's still worth a lot more than a 6th rounder in my opinion.NYRAGE said:
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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
NYRAGE
Footballguy
You may think he's worth more (and you wouldn't be alone), but they shopped him for a 5th rounder during the draft and couldn't get it. The market is what it is.
My opinion is that he's not instinctive at all. Always guessing on plays instead of reading them.When he guesses right, he makes those flash plays at the line of scrimmage. When he guess doesn't guess correctly, which is pretty often, he's not even near the ball. God forbid if a blocker comes towards his tiny body.
Not to mention that he was suspended for 4 games for his third drug test failure. The next one is 10 games I think. He's immature and let's not forget the incident when Leo Williams had to separate him from attacking that woman. That plus he only has one season left on his deal. Good riddance. Another terrible Maccan't pick. Perhaps he would have been better in a 4-3 system. Maybe it works out great for KC.
I had totally spaced the off field stuff, I guess it doesn't stick as much when it isn't a skill position guy.
I agree Lee was a pretty bad draft pick, I personally had him as a 3rd rounder that year, and was shocked he went in round 1. I thought he turned a corner last year though, and while still not worth a 1st, no longer looked like a complete bust. He certainly would have been better in a 4-3, and I almost wonder if he would be able to do a reverse Thomas Davis, and lose 15+ pounds and play box safety..
Its no big loss though. He was the teams #3 ILB after they signed Mosley, and Cashman is a very good prospect, despite where he fell. I just don't see the point in trading him for a 6, when he wasn't expensive, and had shown massive improvement the year before. Maybe it was because of the off field stuff, and if it was, I guess he'll fit right in on KC.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
They didn't gain much cap room trading him. Like you said, on the field it doesn't really make much sense trading him, but I think they just wanted him off the team due to his attitude and off the field issues. They didn't want to re-sign him and a compensatory pick didn't factor in because A) He wasn't going to get a big contract and B) we're going to spend in the off-season anyway. He was merely depth at this point and had no future with the team.
As far getting rid of Mac, I think it was a home-run for the team. He was a disaster. We're only getting better from yesterday's firing. People can laugh all they want, but it was a good day. Yes, the Jets owners are a joke. We know this and it's always a handicap. However, we have a potential franchise QB, studs on defense like Adams, Mosley, and potentially Q Williams. There are other nice pieces on the defense like Leo, Maye, Henry Anderson, and maybe even Polite. On offense, we have a stud RB, a potential stud TE, and nice pieces like Enunwa, Anderson, and Crowder. Plus the Jets still have lots of cap room going forward.
I really don't care about the Giants one way or the other, but it's funny that Giants fans are throwing shade (as the kids say) at the Jets. Giants fans can be happy that they have a media distraction from their tire-fire dismantlement (losing OBJ, Collins, reaching for Jones, etc.). The Jets can use improvement at the o-line and CB positions. Gase is a huge question mark and ownership is horrible, but I would definitely pick the Jets over the Giants as a team going forward.
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
I see a Center finally being signed in the very near future..
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
Mike Freeman who is one of writers on valuable insights on NFL couldn't agree any more of this. This certainly adds another ammo for Belichick to troll NYJ.
rockaction
Footballguy
I hated the Lee pick when it was first made, but I agree with the bolded. It was a terrible pick, and I remember Bowles celebrating over it, but he's developed into a useful guy.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I don't understand the timing of this move, firing the GM AFTER he dished out large sums of salary cap and AFTER he spent the 3rd pick in the draft.
The GM position would have been a dream job for any candidate with a good 2nd year QB, a solid defense, a massive amount of cap to play with, and a top-three pick.
The timing does not make any sense to me.
I'm hearing two sides.
- Mac could not get on the same page with the coaches. Bowles had pointed this out to ownership who did not pay attention but got the same complaint from Gase and pulled the trigger. Meaning it was all Mac's fault.
- Gase had the same MO in Miami where he got rid of everyone standing in his way and took control but wasn't successful and lost the locker room. Making it Gase's fault.
What are Jets fans hearing that makes sense on the timing of the firing?
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Well I think that it would have made sense to clean house in January (a lot of us were calling for it the prior couple of years), but it's also not that odd for a GM to be fired after the draft. Wasn't Dorsey fired after the draft? Buffalo's Whaley got fired after the draft. Those are just 2 names that I can think of off the top of my head. I think the media is making a bigger deal of it than it should be.
The real question is why did it take until 2019? It's been fairly obvious that both Bowles and Maccant were in over their heads. A bigger question is why don't the horrible owners change the reporting structure and continue to fire/hire coaches and gms in different years. They always try to force feed a working relationship.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Its not odd to fire a GM and the scouting staff after a draft but not after the GM spends $125 million AND the 3rd pick of the draft AND hires a new HC who was 'reportedly' the 3rd choice as the hire who immediately takes over as interim GM and trades away a player he doesn't want and gets little in return.NYRAGE said:
-----------------------------------
Rich CiminiVerified account @RichCimini
Clearly, there was strife in the organization, which the #Jets denied. Now the truth is out. It’s a stunner because they empowered Maccagnan to spend $125M and make the No. 3 pick in the draft.
8:36 AM - 15 May 2019
-------------------------------------
Outside of the single most important position of QB Darnold and safety Jamal Adams he had poor drafts on-top of poor drafts but it has been reported that Gase had clashed with Mac soon after he was hired and he came out on top of a power struggle.
Their is more here than what has been reported IMHO, the timing really does not add up.
I thought some Jet fans would have more than taking 'well deserved' shots at Maccaganan or Bowles (as a HC as a DC he is excellent).
Troy Pauline was reporting friction before the draft.
New TOJ Podcast: Joe Caporoso and Eliot Crist discuss the New York Jets firing Mike Maccagnan
The rumors of Daniel Jeremiah sound pretty good if he is interested. I honestly feel he'd do a much better job than Mac but I bet more will leak out on what really took place behind the scenes because the timing of this particular firing doesn't make sense.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
The subtitle on this thread at the top makes my head hurt. What does "all your williams are belong to us" mean? Can somebody please edit that into English? Is it a joke and I just don't get it?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us
and the Jets drafted Quentin Williams when they had already had Leonard Williams - both to be coached by Greg Williams.
basically just a dumb joke.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
It’s the wording. It doesn’t make sense.
Is it supposed to be “All your Williams now belong to us”?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
That is way too nerdy for me. Went over my head.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don't think this Manning thing is a good idea. Maybe hire Archie.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Anita Marks' sources are saying the Manning rumor doesn't have legs, but who knows. She's also heard talk that Gase had Gregg Williams forced on him.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
That makes sense. How many head coaches want a coordinator who has proven power hungry and likely willing to stab people in the back to take over as head coach.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I may have said it here at the time, but I felt like the Williams hire was management coveting the Rams model: young offensive coach,+ proven, older DC
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I understood the Williams part. Just didn't get the language part. Makes sense now. Obscure though. I mean nobody was even alive yet in the early 2000s.
rockaction
Footballguy
Wow, me and memes must go way back. I completely understood the reference. Nowadays, though, memes just whip right on past me.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Personally I don't give a #### if Gase wanted Greg Williams. He (Gase) has proven nothing as a HC and he basically said he's only gonna concentrate on the offense (primarily a developing Sam).
Dude should be counting his blessings that he got ANY job this off-season,let alone one with a potential franchise qb already in place
Dude should be counting his blessings that he got ANY job this off-season,let alone one with a potential franchise qb already in place
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If they bring a good GM, this will all be much ado about nothing.
If they’re truly considering Manning make him the President of Football Operations and let the GM report to him. I’d prefer a more experienced GM.
If they’re truly considering Manning make him the President of Football Operations and let the GM report to him. I’d prefer a more experienced GM.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Ownership and specifically organizational structure is the issue with the Jets.
Cleveland has poor ownership and it had the exact same organizational structure of the Jets with the HC AND GM reporting directly to ownership, big mistake.
That structure creates the sort of dysfunction you see with the insane moves of keeping an ineffective GM, hiring a HC like Gase who has his DC thrust upon him. Where the GM doesn't listen to the HC before making big ticket FA signings and draft picks. What a mess.
The chain of every NFL organization should be the GM reporting directly to ownership and the HC reports to the GM. That is until the HC can prove himself and lobby to take on more GM responsibilities or make the case against the GM and then hand-pick the next GM and swap the structure of the HC reporting directly to ownership and the GM reporting to the HC.
The first step is the key so ownership has to 'luck' into a good GM but a new HC should never be able to conduct the sort of power-play we just witnessed with Gase 'essentially' taking total control in less than six months on the job without having coached a single game with the Jets after coming in with a losing W/L record and a rep as not getting along with players and coaches and GMs where he back-stabbed everyone to gain control. I still simply don't get-it and even though more and more is coming out on what took place their has to be something that still has not come out because the Gase power play should never have happened.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I just came to say lol at the thread title.
Also, you’re old AF. (As am I)
Also, you’re old AF. (As am I)
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I love the title. been laughing at it for what seems like a week
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I needed the reference handed to me. Even though I was using dial up modems in 1983. Is it possible I am *too* old?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
We've all been well aware how dumb the organizational structure is, the way the Jets have it set up. Hopefully it changes now with Mac gone, but I won't hold my breath waiting to see it.
As to your last paragraph, I don't think we know the full story since Mehta is a hack but even at it's face value Mac was acting like a child as well, keeping Gase out of the draft room and telling his scouts not to talk to Gase.
Bottom line is Mac's record has been mediocre at best (and that's being kind) and we all wanted him gone with Bowles. I don't think anyone is shedding any tears that he's gone now no matter how it went down. Rightfully or wrongfully (and it's the Jets so wrongfully is probably the more likely outcome) the future is hitched to Gase. If you want his coaching tenure to be a successful one you need to have him work with people who are on the same page. Right now its a quiet time for the GM anyway. Like I said if they make the right choice now all of this will be pretty meaningless. I'd love to see Manning as a figurehead/consultant in the President role and a guy like Douglass or Pioli as the GM.
Gase reports to Pioli, Pioli reports to Manning and Manning reports to Johnson.
We'll see.
RC94
Footballguy
Gase disputes power struggle with fired GM
He should have finished with "yeah, that's the ticket."
(for those who don't get it, that's an old SNL reference)
He should have finished with "yeah, that's the ticket."
(for those who don't get it, that's an old SNL reference)
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Its ownership. They have been served a slice of humble pie with all of the bad PR and how everyone is calling out the guy who let this happen. He's got to take a bite because HE is the one responsible. I hope his ego will allow him to realize he shouldn't double-down and let Gase run the asylum. The Browns owner took a beating for his Johnny Manziel call, as he should because that one move alone set the Browns back three years but he also realized he created a mess as the GM and HC got into public spats because they both reported to him and neither felt the need to listen or work with each other.Dr. Octopus said:
Your ownership has to not just take the PR beating but he can't turtle and let Gase run the show. He's got to step-up and take the blame and then correct the mistake of having both the GM and HC report to him. He's got to fix it but he won't if his ego gets in the way or if he's weak and lets Gase be the front man because that will almost certainly end in disaster considering the way he's treated players and members of the front office.
Trust me, you do not want a figurehead President. You want/need a strong GM who should insist on restructuring the org chart where the HC reports to him.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I just couldnt bring myself to post.....but after a few days its time
The Jets hate the negative PR they get - they hate the same old jets moniker and how they are always mocked by the league...but what other franchise has history of such awful embarrassments over the years - leave it to the Jets to make a no brainer decision like firing a lousy Mac into a circus.
Im repeating much of what has been posted here many times but it bears repeating -
The guy deserved to be fired - he had an awful track record of drat picks (aside from no brainers in the top 6) and FA signings (Wilkerson, Revis, Trumaine, etc) - any other team would have shown him the door with Bowles. As many said in this thread - it made perfect sense. You dont leave failing GM in place with a new coach - makes zero sense. Add in giving a failing GM the opportunity to shape your franchise over the next 4 yrs with $100M to spend and a top 3 pick and you are risking a major disaster....the only way it could be worse is firing him less than a month after finishing the offseason that will shape the new coach and team for the next 4 yrs. Just epic dumb.....What does that say to your fan base? The team...the players just signed...the draft picks....
Now Gase is a snake and there is no doubt his lying finger prints are all over this...his reputation precedes him and he didnt disappoint If MAc had any say into hiring and he went with Gase then he is a fool. But the king fool is Chris Johnson...who I had hope for until now....this is beyond the stupid stuff Woody has ever done and he did some doozies as well. CJ allows himself to get played by Gase and makes a monster dumb decision. Then compounds it with that moronic presser where he acts like he just figured out Mac was bad after spending time with him....come on.
As said here - the reporting structure is dumb - CJ showed he has no clue and needs more than a GM but a Head of football operations to save himself. He wont because billionaires that didnt earn their money usually dont learn from mistakes and his ego makes him think he can be the head of a winning franchise - he cant. Not sure which GM they can land after this disaster but make no mistake - it will be a Gase lackey....Gase is now on the clock - no honey moon period....come out of the gate firing and be in the playoffs yr 1 or he can go too. How they give this much power to a losing coach fired by a division rival is just laughable...but again this is the Jets we are talking about.....Giants and Gettlemen should send CJ a card.
The Jets hate the negative PR they get - they hate the same old jets moniker and how they are always mocked by the league...but what other franchise has history of such awful embarrassments over the years - leave it to the Jets to make a no brainer decision like firing a lousy Mac into a circus.
Im repeating much of what has been posted here many times but it bears repeating -
The guy deserved to be fired - he had an awful track record of drat picks (aside from no brainers in the top 6) and FA signings (Wilkerson, Revis, Trumaine, etc) - any other team would have shown him the door with Bowles. As many said in this thread - it made perfect sense. You dont leave failing GM in place with a new coach - makes zero sense. Add in giving a failing GM the opportunity to shape your franchise over the next 4 yrs with $100M to spend and a top 3 pick and you are risking a major disaster....the only way it could be worse is firing him less than a month after finishing the offseason that will shape the new coach and team for the next 4 yrs. Just epic dumb.....What does that say to your fan base? The team...the players just signed...the draft picks....
Now Gase is a snake and there is no doubt his lying finger prints are all over this...his reputation precedes him and he didnt disappoint If MAc had any say into hiring and he went with Gase then he is a fool. But the king fool is Chris Johnson...who I had hope for until now....this is beyond the stupid stuff Woody has ever done and he did some doozies as well. CJ allows himself to get played by Gase and makes a monster dumb decision. Then compounds it with that moronic presser where he acts like he just figured out Mac was bad after spending time with him....come on.
As said here - the reporting structure is dumb - CJ showed he has no clue and needs more than a GM but a Head of football operations to save himself. He wont because billionaires that didnt earn their money usually dont learn from mistakes and his ego makes him think he can be the head of a winning franchise - he cant. Not sure which GM they can land after this disaster but make no mistake - it will be a Gase lackey....Gase is now on the clock - no honey moon period....come out of the gate firing and be in the playoffs yr 1 or he can go too. How they give this much power to a losing coach fired by a division rival is just laughable...but again this is the Jets we are talking about.....Giants and Gettlemen should send CJ a card.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Go Gase!!!
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I for one am very surprised a guy who's college nickname was "Lazy" Leggett turned out to be a bust.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I did a search on him when Woody got the UK job. I couldn't find any evidence of a real job that could provide any experience for this one. Very little written on him other than being involved in some philanthropy.Proverbial rust fund baby?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If you read what I said I don't necessarily want a figurehead president, but if they feel the need to hire Manning it shouldn't be as the GM. He can keep fanboy Chris Johnson occupied while Pioli or Douglas and Gase run the team. Manning could however offer some insight/consulting and be a valuable recruiting asset as the President of Football Operations. He's a smart football mind.
I also said it should be Gase reports to Pioli, Pioli reports to Manning and Manning reports to Johnson. I have no input though and don't expect the Johnsons to admit they have run their "business" in a poor manner so I expect more of the same mismanagement. Hopefully they get lucky.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Ross TuckerVerified account @RossTuckerNFL
5 teams putting in a waiver claim for a young player like this means the Jets probably could've gotten a conditional draft pick via trade. I wonder if their Interim GM even tried?
Ross Tucker added, Field YatesVerified account @FieldYates
Source: the Buccaneers, Bills, Packers, Steelers and Titans all placed a claim on former Jets TE Jordan Leggett. Tampa Bay landed Leggett because it had highest waiver wire order priority.
4:18 AM - 22 May 2019
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That logic does not really follow. Sure teams would take a chance for free (when they're looking to add camp bodies), but that doesn't mean they'd even be willing to give a conditional pick for him. I would imagine he did at least make a few calls but if he did not it would not bother me a bit.
People really go out of their way with illogical leaps to bash Gase - maybe he deserves it, but it makes me root for him harder. I mean are we really going to give him grief for releasing a clear bust? The guy's college nickname was "Lazy" Leggette for pete's sake. Any other GM cuts him you wouldn't hear a peep.
Mookie
Footballguy
It's May, and it's already a dumpster fire. They are completely rudderless, and lack any organizational philosophy. They lack continuity and are perpetually searching for that overpriced veteran with fading skills to bring them success at the expense of player development. They have some nice pieces, but that's all they are. Without direction, they are nothing but the same old Jets chasing their own tails.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
zero chance they could have gotten anything from Legette - Im not happy with Gase but not for this....
Now I can see why Mac was holding out for higher pick for Lee.....former 1st rd pick who actually had a decent year before he was suspended...I probably would have kept him for depth rather than give away for a 6th but maybe he was a locker room problem. Gase is known for no tolerance on that stuff.
Waiting to see if he finds a center - if Mac's lack of urgency in that regard upset him then I'm with Gase on that......how the heck can you expose your young franchise QB like that after what happened last yr
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The best Mac was offered for Lee during the draft was a fifth, per reports. Since he used a first on him his ego would not let that happen, but we're talking about a guy that came off a drug suspension, was in the last year of his contract, and has been a major disappointment outside of 3-4 games.
I don't know if there's any way to land a center at this point, but yes that (and ignoring o-line generally) was Mac's biggest downfall. All we need to do is go back to Mark Sanchez to see how hat could be a disaster. He came off of back to back AFC Championship games and had a huge game against Oakland to start the season. Mangold went down and an UDFA started at center against Baltimore on a Sunday Night and Sanchez got destroyed. He was never the same after that - and then idiot Rex put the final nail in the coffin by inserting him into the fourth quarter of a preseason game behind the third string o-line, because he wanted to win the Snoopy Bowl.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
ARTICLEKevin Zeitler Makes 10 Players John Dorsey Has Traded From Previous Browns Regimes
If anyone told you a GM could trade, DeShone Kizer, Cody Kessler, and Kevin Hogan for draft picks in a few months would you believe it?
I saw it and still can't believe it before bringing up Shon Coleman and Corey Coleman.
It can be done, it can.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
There's always a market for QBs and the Coleman guys were high NFL draft picks sold at a huge loss (that happens). Leggette was a late fourth in his own draft class - what is anyone giving up for him?
It's a meaningless proposition. Players get cut and claimed on waivers all offseason - but since it was Gase now all of a sudden it was some big mistake.
I will bet you anything you want Leggette does not make the Bucs final roster.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
OL was definitely a MAc issue......the Colts should be the roadmap t this point....Colts ignored OL and almost ended Luck's career...hey learned their lesson and now Luck is healthy and bck to top QB....I just dont understand how MAc was so obsessed with other positions and would ignore the most obviously critical one. Now its likely too late and we'll be holding our breath that Sm stays healthy behind a shaky OL....next year it must be the #1 focus
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