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Dr. Octopus

2020 New York Jets: Metlife turf puts up more fight than the Jets

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3 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I don't think a Bell trade is realistic given his salary but if they could get a good deal for him, I would be on board. I actually think Bell ran very hard and gained yards that weren't there but if Gase (and by extension Darnold) aren't going to use him properly then his loss will be minimal. I would not be on board using a first or second on a RB, but one of their third round picks would be fine.

Montgomery looked like a total beast in the preseason, and could have been a useful part of the passing game - I don't know what happened there but Gase mis(under)used him as well.

Powell will be 32 so the contract better be very cheap or I think he's pretty easily replaceable - he did run hard and looked good though.

 

I have no idea what Gase's plan was regarding the running game.  He didn't use Montgomery at all. He wouldn't throw to Bell or hand it off to him at the goal-line.  He must have signed Powell for the leadership. Although I like the guy, there was no point of signing him because of his age. It's not like they were going to develop him.

It's pretty worrisome that this faux offensive guru had no clue what to do with his RB situation. 

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few thoughts

I agree on not reaching for an OL in the draft...11 is a bit far and Letherwood already is going back.  If a true stud is not there then I'd be ok with Jeudy or Lamb as long as Douglas lands some good OL in FA.  I'd rather get Sam a best WR playmaker then reach for the next Erik Flowers.  Get a stud and another solid OL in FA and I'd be ok with OL in the 2d and 3rd.  

Darnold - 2020 is the year.  no more excuses.  He's still uber young but not a rookie....should have a much improved OL and weapons.....not learning a new offense.  2020 is when we see the real Sam hopefully take that step toward being a bona fide franchise QB.  Hopefully get playoff experience in 2020 and all in for 2021 with last yr on a cheap contract.  

I dont want to get greedy with Greg Williams but from how he ran the defense with such sub par players - with Mosely back and Q/Bless another yr of development - I wouldnt go crazy on FA/high draft picks.  I'd extend Adams and bring back some of the FA who shouldnt be too expensive (Burgess, Poole, etc) - pay middle money for some more depth at CB/pass rush and let it rip.  This has to be an offensive driven FA/draft.  

So far no word on GWill being a candidate as a HC....thk goodness....hope he stays under the radar!  

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wow watching the Giants flub their GM/coach search looks eerily similar

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On 1/4/2020 at 11:43 PM, NYRAGE said:

Great start to the playoffs

best playoffs in years!

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1 minute ago, mphtrilogy said:

best playoffs in years!

Darn tootin'. Great games from a close/exciting perspective. 

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50 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

wow watching the Giants flub their GM/coach search looks eerily similar

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about Joe Judge but I would not be happy if the Jets hired him - I may actually prefer Gase. :unsure:

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SNY's Ralph Vacchiano reports impending free agent DL Leonard Williams is seeking $15 million annually.

The Giants have been expected to re-sign Williams since giving up multiple picks for him at the trade deadline. Williams made $14.2 million last season and isn't going to be taking less than that as a 25-year-old free agent. The Giants have more than $60 million in cap space, so money shouldn't be an issue. It's possible Williams could be a transition tagged if a long-term deal isn't reached, which would pay him roughly $13 million.

 

Well I'm pretty glad the Jets got something for this guy.

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I saw that - he's not worth anything close to that.....a rare win for the Jets on a trade.  Boring Feb - let's see some off season plans from our crew!  

As we get closer to FA I'm starting to hope it breaks as follows:

Cuts with savings - Tru ($3M), Avery ($4.5M), Enunwa ($2.5), Winters ($7.2M), Bellamy ($2.2M) - total savings $19.5M + $50M space = just under $70M - figure with draft picks and season buffer it gives them about $55M to spend.  

FA - 1 stud and 1 very good OL signed ($25M between 2 players) - its that important!  

Let Robbie go if he wants over $10M yr

Extend Adams ($15M yr) - adds $7.5M to cap number

Re-sign Poole - $8M yr

depth signings for balance - $14.5M spread around

Draft

If they do the above then the WR position is putrid and hopefully on of Jeudy or Lamb is there at 11 to give Sam a weapon...if not then grab another stud OL and a WR in the 2d rd....id even be ok with packaging both 3rds to move up into the 2d again for another solid WR....

Theme is the defense is going to have to wait a year - thats more of a vote of confidence to GWill than the talent....#1 priority is to protect Sam....and #1A start giving him weapons....unfortunately this likely cant be built in a yr but 2021 is looking like another good cap space year (perks of drafting like crap) with getting out of a few more big contracts like Bell and Anderson....Sam would likely need to be extended but still looking at good space.  

All in all if Joe D is the real deal it lines up as next year be competitive and make a push for playoffs....2021 is the year to go for it.  Pats should be Brady free for sure by then so AFC East should be up for grabs 1st time in 20 yrs!  

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

I saw that - he's not worth anything close to that.....a rare win for the Jets on a trade.  Boring Feb - let's see some off season plans from our crew!  

As we get closer to FA I'm starting to hope it breaks as follows:

Cuts with savings - Tru ($3M), Avery ($4.5M), Enunwa ($2.5), Winters ($7.2M), Bellamy ($2.2M) - total savings $19.5M + $50M space = just under $70M - figure with draft picks and season buffer it gives them about $55M to spend.  

FA - 1 stud and 1 very good OL signed ($25M between 2 players) - its that important!  

Let Robbie go if he wants over $10M yr

Extend Adams ($15M yr) - adds $7.5M to cap number

Re-sign Poole - $8M yr

depth signings for balance - $14.5M spread around

Draft

If they do the above then the WR position is putrid and hopefully on of Jeudy or Lamb is there at 11 to give Sam a weapon...if not then grab another stud OL and a WR in the 2d rd....id even be ok with packaging both 3rds to move up into the 2d again for another solid WR....

Theme is the defense is going to have to wait a year - thats more of a vote of confidence to GWill than the talent....#1 priority is to protect Sam....and #1A start giving him weapons....unfortunately this likely cant be built in a yr but 2021 is looking like another good cap space year (perks of drafting like crap) with getting out of a few more big contracts like Bell and Anderson....Sam would likely need to be extended but still looking at good space.  

All in all if Joe D is the real deal it lines up as next year be competitive and make a push for playoffs....2021 is the year to go for it.  Pats should be Brady free for sure by then so AFC East should be up for grabs 1st time in 20 yrs!  

 

 

I'd keep Avery Williams - he's a great run stopper and would make the Jets a force up the middle at a relative cheap price-tag. The rest I  agree with.

The #11 pick needs to be an OT or Jeudy/Lamb (I have a feeling Robbie Anderson is gone, as he'll be too expensive for what he brings).

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11 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

 (I have a feeling Robbie Anderson is gone, as he'll be too expensive for what he brings).

It's amazing what deep threats receive in value compared to possession receivers. They were talking about Sammy Watkins the other day and how his contract is exorbitant compared to his production (even though they were discussing in regard to him being cut, but cautioning that a higher-end renegotiation might not be out of bounds). Simply, he's a field stretcher, and one that can competently run the route tree is what teams want schematically, so there you go. 

i've never liked Anderson's game, but he'll be missed if not replaced with one of the top college guys (not Tee Higgins, who brings a different skill set.)

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Interesting article about Robby Anderson over at PFF. It's behind a paywall, but it breaks down his season. He's apparently held in much higher regard than I and others think or thought. They seem to be blaming the QB situation for his seeming failures, and they're pointing out how developed on the tree and good his route running is.

To wit, a quote from the article:

Anderson needs accurate downfield passes like he needs air to breathe

I don't think there is anyone out there trying to claim that Anderson isn't fast — the guy can scoot. His 40-yard dash time coming out of Temple was 4.34 seconds, and it looks like he plays even faster than that. Given that speed, it shouldn't come as a big surprise to see that Anderson ranks among the top five wide receivers in the NFL in targets of 20 or more yards downfield since 2016, with 112, and he trails only Julio Jones (126), Mike Evans (121) and Antonio Brown (113). As a team, you want to take advantage of a player like Anderson, who can get over the top of defenses with regularity. The Jets have been unable to do that. 

PFF tracks the ball location of every targeted pass, allowing us to determine the percentage of passes that are accurate based on ball placement in the context of the route being run. On passes 20 or more yards downfield since 2016, Jets passers have combined for an accuracy rate of 28.3%, which is lower than every team in the NFL besides the Buffalo Bills. Stepping down from the team level, Anderson has seen a catchable pass on just 41% of his deep targets, fewer than any of the other five wide receivers with 100 or more deep targets over the past four seasons.

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On 2/12/2020 at 11:07 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

I'd keep Avery Williams - he's a great run stopper and would make the Jets a force up the middle at a relative cheap price-tag. The rest I  agree with.

The #11 pick needs to be an OT or Jeudy/Lamb (I have a feeling Robbie Anderson is gone, as he'll be too expensive for what he brings).

Not worth his cost, especially coming off the injury. $8.5 million cap hit is way too much considering how much we are paying Mosley and considering that we have cheap replacements (Cashman, Hewitt, Burgess) at a slight drop in performance.  We don't need that much money tied up on non-critical positions like ILB. Cutting him saves $6.5m in cap space which we'll need to upgrade o-line, WRs, CBs, edge or whatever else.

Another one of McCant's problems is not only did he do a poor job of assembling talent, he overpaid at less than important positions. Nothing like spending on DTs and Safeties. If Adams gets a new deal, that's another $17m a year tied up on non-critical positions (plus Bell's money at RB).  Will we ever get an o-line or edge rusher? Hopefully JD knows how to build a team considering his background on successful organizations.  You have to protect your QB and rush the QB, not overpay for run-stuffers.

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On 2/12/2020 at 10:35 AM, Kiddnets said:

I saw that - he's not worth anything close to that.....a rare win for the Jets on a trade.  Boring Feb - let's see some off season plans from our crew!  

As we get closer to FA I'm starting to hope it breaks as follows:

Cuts with savings - Tru ($3M), Avery ($4.5M), Enunwa ($2.5), Winters ($7.2M), Bellamy ($2.2M) - total savings $19.5M + $50M space = just under $70M - figure with draft picks and season buffer it gives them about $55M to spend.  

FA - 1 stud and 1 very good OL signed ($25M between 2 players) - its that important!  

Let Robbie go if he wants over $10M yr

Extend Adams ($15M yr) - adds $7.5M to cap number

Re-sign Poole - $8M yr

depth signings for balance - $14.5M spread around

Draft

If they do the above then the WR position is putrid and hopefully on of Jeudy or Lamb is there at 11 to give Sam a weapon...if not then grab another stud OL and a WR in the 2d rd....id even be ok with packaging both 3rds to move up into the 2d again for another solid WR....

Theme is the defense is going to have to wait a year - thats more of a vote of confidence to GWill than the talent....#1 priority is to protect Sam....and #1A start giving him weapons....unfortunately this likely cant be built in a yr but 2021 is looking like another good cap space year (perks of drafting like crap) with getting out of a few more big contracts like Bell and Anderson....Sam would likely need to be extended but still looking at good space.  

All in all if Joe D is the real deal it lines up as next year be competitive and make a push for playoffs....2021 is the year to go for it.  Pats should be Brady free for sure by then so AFC East should be up for grabs 1st time in 20 yrs!  

 

 

Grab 2 O-line in free agency. They will need 2 CBs. Not sure if they will spend on edge. Only so much money to go around.

O-line at 11. Then maybe WR and O-line with our 2 next picks. The second third rounder should be another WR or CB. RB in the 4th or 5th round. Or some combination of those positions in rounds 3-5.

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5 hours ago, NYRAGE said:

Not worth his cost, especially coming off the injury. $8.5 million cap hit is way too much considering how much we are paying Mosley and considering that we have cheap replacements (Cashman, Hewitt, Burgess) at a slight drop in performance.  We don't need that much money tied up on non-critical positions like ILB. Cutting him saves $6.5m in cap space which we'll need to upgrade o-line, WRs, CBs, edge or whatever else.

Another one of McCant's problems is not only did he do a poor job of assembling talent, he overpaid at less than important positions. Nothing like spending on DTs and Safeties. If Adams gets a new deal, that's another $17m a year tied up on non-critical positions (plus Bell's money at RB).  Will we ever get an o-line or edge rusher? Hopefully JD knows how to build a team considering his background on successful organizations.  You have to protect your QB and rush the QB, not overpay for run-stuffers.

I thought his cap savings was only $4.5MM. I’d still keep him but I see your point and wouldn’t be that upset if he goes. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I thought his cap savings was only $4.5MM. I’d still keep him but I see your point and wouldn’t be that upset if he goes. 

He has a salary of $6.5 m (non-guaranteed this year) and a bonus cap hit of $2m.  So the savings would be the $6.5m.

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Alright, the Combine workouts start today. We should start hearing some FA rumors coming out. Allegedly, we're interested in re-signing Anderson, but it looks like he will likely price himself off the team. I would let him go and just draft a WR early. We supposedly like Ruggs a lot, but I don't see that happening unless we trade down or get an extra first for Jamal Adams (ducks for cover).

Oh, at least 3 people are reporting that Brady is likely to leave NE.

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I would like to see 2 OT and 1 WR in first 3 picks...  preferably get that Blind Side Left Tackle with Pick 1

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33 minutes ago, mphtrilogy said:

I would like to see 2 OT and 1 WR in first 3 picks...  preferably get that Blind Side Left Tackle with Pick 1

Tony Pauline said today that we are all-in on Jack Conklin. If we can't land him, then H Vaitai (Philly) is our back-up plan.

He also said that the Jets want to re-sign Anderson, but he won't give the Jets a home-team discount and will probably get $15m a year because he has a lot of interest. Good for him. Bye-bye.

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If you guys have HBO, you have to watch this week's Curb Your Enthusiasm.  If you don't know, Larry David is a big Jets fan and this episode is about how they always disappoint their fans. In this episode, the Jets killed Carl, Larry's golf buddy.

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8 hours ago, NYRAGE said:

If you guys have HBO, you have to watch this week's Curb Your Enthusiasm.  If you don't know, Larry David is a big Jets fan and this episode is about how they always disappoint their fans. In this episode, the Jets killed Carl, Larry's golf buddy.

Absolutely incredible episode.

 

BTW, been lurking around the HF Rag boards last few weeks (as I've tended to last few deadlines) - caught a few of your posts on there.  Man, IDK how you can engage with some of those dumbdumbs.

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9 hours ago, NYRAGE said:

If you guys have HBO, you have to watch this week's Curb Your Enthusiasm.  If you don't know, Larry David is a big Jets fan and this episode is about how they always disappoint their fans. In this episode, the Jets killed Carl, Larry's golf buddy.

I'll give you the credit for the latest thread subtitle.

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PFT's Mike Florio reports free agent RT Jack Conklin is expected to sign with the Jets.

This comes after combine reports the Jets are high on Conklin. The Jets need starters at both tackle spots with Kelvin Beachum and Brandon Shell free agents. Adding Conklin would give them a cornerstone to build around on an offensive line that was one of the worst in the league. Conklin could top the $18 million AAV Lane Johnson got from the Eagles last season.

 

Quote

 

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports impending free agent RT Jack Conklin is not expected to sign with the Jets.

This refutes Mike Florio's earlier report that Conklin was expected to land with New York. The Jets are obviously desperate for help in their trenches since both Kelvin Beachum and Brandon Shell are likely to walk in free agency, but Conklin's spurning moves the organization back to square one. The Browns have also been linked to the 25-year-old this offseason.

 

Alrighty then. I'd feel a little better if the stories were being reported oppositely (meaning I trust Schefter more) but I have no idea how anyone would really know anything at this point.

 

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Well Jets looked good to sign Conklin for about an hour before Schefter threw water all over it......likely a leak from the agent to get teams attention.....would love that signing though.  

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On 3/2/2020 at 7:56 AM, sheerterror said:

Absolutely incredible episode.

 

BTW, been lurking around the HF Rag boards last few weeks (as I've tended to last few deadlines) - caught a few of your posts on there.  Man, IDK how you can engage with some of those dumbdumbs.

I don't post on there too much even though I've been a member for 15-20 years. Just occasionally on the game thread and reply to Maximus who posts here. Once in a blue moon I post on a player or roster thread.

To be honest though, I'm not interested in online debates with those guys. I might make a rare opinion, but I almost never reply back.  Most of those guys have never played or just look at the game from the perspective of advanced stats. A lot of them post opinions as if they are facts and just repeat the same argument over and over. It's frustrating. 

Hockey is the one sport I know like the back of my hand. I do really well in fantasy sports, but I would never go on here and breakdown the x's and o's of football. Hockey is another story. I played from like age 4 until my late 40s. I was coached and later did some coaching myself. I did some amateur scouting and worked for a minor league team (and also covered that team for a newspaper) - all as secondary jobs while I did my Finance career. 

Well with the Rangers season suddenly falling apart, it's time to focus on the Jets free agency and the draft. The Jets will be in an interesting spot if the top tackles are gone before our pick. Before we get there though, we have to see how we address the o-line in free agency.  We should start seeing some cuts coming soon.

 

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4 hours ago, NYRAGE said:

I don't post on there too much even though I've been a member for 15-20 years. Just occasionally on the game thread and reply to Maximus who posts here. Once in a blue moon I post on a player or roster thread.

To be honest though, I'm not interested in online debates with those guys. I might make a rare opinion, but I almost never reply back.  Most of those guys have never played or just look at the game from the perspective of advanced stats. A lot of them post opinions as if they are facts and just repeat the same argument over and over. It's frustrating. 

Hockey is the one sport I know like the back of my hand. I do really well in fantasy sports, but I would never go on here and breakdown the x's and o's of football. Hockey is another story. I played from like age 4 until my late 40s. I was coached and later did some coaching myself. I did some amateur scouting and worked for a minor league team (and also covered that team for a newspaper) - all as secondary jobs while I did my Finance career. 

Well with the Rangers season suddenly falling apart, it's time to focus on the Jets free agency and the draft. The Jets will be in an interesting spot if the top tackles are gone before our pick. Before we get there though, we have to see how we address the o-line in free agency.  We should start seeing some cuts coming soon.

 

How bad did Vesey screw the pooch not signing with Nashville?

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At approximately 9:15pm, #Jets DE Quinnen Williams was trying to board his flight at LaGuardia Airport when he was arrested for Criminal Possession of a Weapon (his permit is in Alabama). He’s currently being processed by PAPD, the PAPD tells

 

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6 hours ago, menobrown said:

At approximately 9:15pm, #Jets DE Quinnen Williams was trying to board his flight at LaGuardia Airport when he was arrested for Criminal Possession of a Weapon (his permit is in Alabama). He’s currently being processed by PAPD, the PAPD tells

 

On the positive side, at least he didn’t shoot himself in the leg with it.

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Seems about right

Wonder how many more sacks Josh Allen racked up while Q was in custody

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Unreal, at least Carl doesn't have to deal with this crap anymore...

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It really is mind boggling how this franchise has this stuff happen year after year.......

Get ready for another DL pick in the 1st rd to replace him!  lol

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21 hours ago, NYRAGE said:

I don't post on there too much even though I've been a member for 15-20 years. Just occasionally on the game thread and reply to Maximus who posts here. Once in a blue moon I post on a player or roster thread.

To be honest though, I'm not interested in online debates with those guys. I might make a rare opinion, but I almost never reply back.  Most of those guys have never played or just look at the game from the perspective of advanced stats. A lot of them post opinions as if they are facts and just repeat the same argument over and over. It's frustrating. 

Hockey is the one sport I know like the back of my hand. I do really well in fantasy sports, but I would never go on here and breakdown the x's and o's of football. Hockey is another story. I played from like age 4 until my late 40s. I was coached and later did some coaching myself. I did some amateur scouting and worked for a minor league team (and also covered that team for a newspaper) - all as secondary jobs while I did my Finance career. 

Well with the Rangers season suddenly falling apart, it's time to focus on the Jets free agency and the draft. The Jets will be in an interesting spot if the top tackles are gone before our pick. Before we get there though, we have to see how we address the o-line in free agency.  We should start seeing some cuts coming soon.

 

Same, lurked forever, never post, but have been there long enough to remember when RGY was like...6 years old posting on there?  Awesome game last night, fortunately was there for it - don't go to too many regular season games.

Anyway, back to the Jets.  Mac with 1 final parting gift for us with Q.  We literally can't do anything but PRAY that NYJ's JD is as competent as NYR's JD.

 

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This is a little encouraging at least:

Quote

The 22-year-old's criminal charges are similar to the case former Buccaneers DE Da’Quan Bowers faced when carrying a loaded gun at LaGuardia in 2013; he later pled guilty to a reduced charge of disorderly conduct that carried no jail time.

 

I find it hard to believe that anyone can be dumb enough to bring a gun to an airport without at least checking up on the law - hey there's this thing called the internet now that provides a lot of information. While not much may end up coming out of this why do we even need to worry about it?

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I'm sure the excuse is gonna be that he forgot it was in his bag. 

But yeah....how dumb do you have to be.

Id like to think the jets cover NY's extremely strict gun laws with the entire team every year (especially rookies who grew up in the South) but maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

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I saw the breaking news last night, but didn't want to kill my Rangers buzz by posting it.

Our late gm with the gift that keeps giving. I remember when some of us were banging the drum for Josh Allen when pass rusher was and still is a huge need, yet we go for another run-stuffer. OMG, Maccan't made Idzik look ok in retrospect.

Baby Q's nickname is going to end up to Low IQ Williams. How dumb can you be? Anyway, no one will care as long as he ends up being a good player, but this is still a bit disconcerting.

Hopefully JD breaks our curse of horrific GMs.  Unfortunately, our owners will continue to be terrible.

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20 minutes ago, TLEF316 said:

I'm sure the excuse is gonna be that he forgot it was in his bag. 

But yeah....how dumb do you have to be.

Id like to think the jets cover NY's extremely strict gun laws with the entire team every year (especially rookies who grew up in the South) but maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

The Jets are working on their player manuals, but it might take some time. They had revised their driving section after all those DUIs and Sheldon trying to outrun the cops, but then had to do further research on the nut in the cop's wife's eye section thanks to Anderson.  Eventually they will get around to guns, but first must address assaulting girls at music festivals, assault at night clubs, getting mono from strippers, and eating hot dogs on the sideline.

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2 minutes ago, NYRAGE said:

The Jets are working on their player manuals, but it might take some time. They had revised their driving section after all those DUIs and Sheldon trying to outrun the cops, but then had to do further research on the nut in the cop's wife's eye section thanks to Anderson.  Eventually they will get around to guns, but first must address assaulting girls at music festivals, assault at night clubs, getting mono from strippers, and eating hot dogs on the sideline.

it hard to believe this is only 1 team within 10 yr span.....dont forget your starting QB getting his jaw broken in the locker room by a teammate!  

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5 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

it hard to believe this is only 1 team within 10 yr span.....dont forget your starting QB getting his jaw broken in the locker room by a teammate!  

Good one!  

Donahue fell under the DUI section, but i guess I should have given him a special mention since he drove the wrong way drunk in the Lincoln Tunnel. As if that wasn't special enough, he plead guilty to a second DUI just three days later.

I'm sure there are more great examples if we think of them.

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Brian Stevens of SNY NY says that the Giants have reached a deal with Leonard WIlliams, but won't officially sign until after FA starts so that we get a 5th round pick instead of a 4th next year. Nice shenanigans.  Still, a third and a 5th is great value for that underachiever.

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I just came in to check one of my favorite threads. I think QW getting popped for having a firearm at the airport about sums up Maccagnan's era. What a flipping disaster.

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1 hour ago, NYRAGE said:

Brian Stevens of SNY NY says that the Giants have reached a deal with Leonard WIlliams, but won't officially sign until after FA starts so that we get a 5th round pick instead of a 4th next year. Nice shenanigans.  Still, a third and a 5th is great value for that underachiever.

That seems like a loophole that should have been addressed by the Jets in the first place and a cheesy move by the Giants but as you said, I’ll take it anyway. 

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What a disappointment with Williams, too. You've essentially flipped a fifth overall for the 3.04 and 5.04 (or somewhere around there depending upon compensatory picks). I know you'd have to re-sign anybody you picked that year, but it seems like an awfully small ROI for Williams's draft capital. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

What a disappointment with Williams, too. You've essentially flipped a fifth overall for the 3.04 and 5.04 (or somewhere around there depending upon compensatory picks). I know you'd have to re-sign anybody you picked that year, but it seems like an awfully small ROI for Williams's draft capital. 

It’s surely a terrible ROI if you’re looking at just draft capital. If you look at it like Williams was already a sunk cost at that point, and getting a third and fifth for a guy you would just have let walk this offseason it’s not bad.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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9 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It’s surely a terrible ROI if you’re looking at just draft capital. If you look at it like Williams was already a sunk cost at that point, and getting a third and fifth for a guy you would just have let walk this offseason it’s not bad.

Very true. I'm grousing about Maccagnan's tenure, really. To get something for someone who might have walked is a bit of a boon.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Very true. I'm grousing about Maccagnan's tenure, really. To get something for someone who might have walked is a bit of a boon.

It definitely shows Mac’s downside. I mean it’s a losing proposition for any team to gain 3rd and 5th Round value for players they took with fifth overall picks.

ETA: “gain” was probably not the correct word to use there 😄

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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3 hours ago, rockaction said:

What a disappointment with Williams, too. You've essentially flipped a fifth overall for the 3.04 and 5.04 (or somewhere around there depending upon compensatory picks). I know you'd have to re-sign anybody you picked that year, but it seems like an awfully small ROI for Williams's draft capital. 

That's a 2021 pick, so who knows where it ends up. They should be a better team next year, so it will be lower.

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Just now, NYRAGE said:

That's a 2021 pick, so who knows where it ends up. They should be a better team next year, so it will be lower.

Oh, that's why none of the draft orders had the Jets acquiring the fifth-round pick from the Giants. I thought it was because of the waiting game the Giants were playing.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It’s surely a terrible ROI if you’re looking at just draft capital. If you look at it like Williams was already a sunk cost at that point, and getting a third and fifth for a guy you would just have let walk this offseason it’s not bad.

I think that you have to look at it from a depreciable asset perspective. They got 4.5 years out of him (I think). So what's he worth after that, especially for a big contract for a guy that doesn't produce much and whose best attribute is to potentially free up other players to make plays. I'm not a big fan obviously, so you can definitely say that they got good value out of him. The Giants paid the cost of a used BMW for a used Pinto (or for you younger guys, a Sentra).  Gettleman could have signed him for free this year.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It definitely shows Mac’s downside. I mean it’s a losing proposition for any team to gain 3rd and 5th Round value for players they took with fifth overall picks.

ETA: “gain” was probably not the correct word to use there 😄

Yeah, it's two separate things. The value they received as a player for the 5th overall in the draft was pretty bad. Not the dominant player you would expect to draft that high, but it wasn't Gholston either. He had some value as an ok run-defender if you just ignore where he was drafted.

They got great value in the trade for a half of a season of a player. He was arguably replaced by undrafted league minimum players on the d-line and not missed at all. Hell, his replacements actually made some big plays something that Williams never seemed to make.

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No shock, but Trumaine Johnson to be cut. A lot of dead money, but saves $3m. Good riddance thief!

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