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MIA put franchise tag on Jarvis Landry (1 Viewer)

Really didn't see that coming. 

Miami really shot themselves in the foot when they gave Stills that stupid extension. They tied up money on a guy who is the definition of one dimensional, and now because of that they have to tag Landry, because he wouldn't except the contract Stills got(might have before Stills got it) and might not be able to keep Parker past this year(inconsistent but much better than Stills) because they can't be paying 30 million for 3 WR's.

Landry is a great player, but not worth that much money. He did a good job this year, with a QB who basically plays to none of Landry' strengths. He was, and will likely continue to be, better with Tannehill.

 
travdogg said:
Really didn't see that coming. 
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Was going to say the same thing. Have even posted on this site in last week saying I think he was likely to leave.

Most of all I did not think a guy who does not scare defenses would command that kind of coin, from anyone.

 
It’s really early for the tag, sparking speculation that they want to trade him. I don’t think this is going to work out for them- no one wants to give him a big contract and also a draft pick. No one is coming knocking for this guy, and they’ll be paying top 3 wr money for him this year. No one is going to make an offer under the tag and lose a 1st (or more) and I doubt anyone does a sign and trade for what miami likely wants in return. 

 
travdogg said:
Really didn't see that coming. 

Miami really shot themselves in the foot when they gave Stills that stupid extension. They tied up money on a guy who is the definition of one dimensional, and now because of that they have to tag Landry, because he wouldn't except the contract Stills got(might have before Stills got it) and might not be able to keep Parker past this year(inconsistent but much better than Stills) because they can't be paying 30 million for 3 WR's.

Landry is a great player, but not worth that much money. He did a good job this year, with a QB who basically plays to none of Landry' strengths. He was, and will likely continue to be, better with Tannehill.
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Landry is pretty one dimensional himself. Has the guy ever broken 10 ypc? 

 
Snorkelson said:
It’s really early for the tag, sparking speculation that they want to trade him. I don’t think this is going to work out for them- no one wants to give him a big contract and also a draft pick. No one is coming knocking for this guy, and they’ll be paying top 3 wr money for him this year. No one is going to make an offer under the tag and lose a 1st (or more) and I doubt anyone does a sign and trade for what miami likely wants in return. 
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Not only that but haven't they been trying to trade him for about a year? Seems like the rumors about Landry getting traded started before the season started last year. 

Maybe they can tag-and-trade Landry for Cousins after WAS tag-and-trades him as well. These teams don't seem to REALLY want these players(enough to pay them market value long term anyway) but also seem pre-occupied that the player never hit true free agency. It kind of speaks to the quality of the FO of both franchises if they care more about saving face or punishing the player rather than using the $ to improve the mediocre team in so many areas.

 When you look at what the MIA team needs are(interior OL, depth at RB, LB's) those are all positions where $16mil can go a LONG way.

 
travdogg said:
Miami really shot themselves in the foot when they gave Stills that stupid extension. They tied up money on a guy who is the definition of one dimensional, and now because of that they have to tag Landry, because he wouldn't except the contract Stills got(might have before Stills got it) and might not be able to keep Parker past this year(inconsistent but much better than Stills) because they can't be paying 30 million for 3 WR's.
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I dunno, I think Parker has been pretty consistent. Consistently less productive than Stills.

Over the past two season in MIA:

Parker: 1414yd/5td

Stills: 1573yd/15td

Once the game starts then the slot you were drafted is forgotten. Stills was definitely on my "buy low" radar this season before MIA made this mind boggling move.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Landry is pretty one dimensional himself. Has the guy ever broken 10 ypc? 
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His career average is 10.1ypc. So yes? 

He also has the most receptions ever in the first four years. Over 50 more than Boldin or Fitz. So while he's not a game busting type, he's a key cog in Miami, one of their few core players.

Not to say he's worth $16 million, but free agents get overpaid every year.

 
-OZ- said:
His career average is 10.1ypc. So yes? 

He also has the most receptions ever in the first four years. Over 50 more than Boldin or Fitz. So while he's not a game busting type, he's a key cog in Miami, one of their few core players.

Not to say he's worth $16 million, but free agents get overpaid every year.
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10.1 ypc is pretty terrible for a WR and that's the point. He's pretty one dimensional himself. Getting fed targets isn't all that impressive when the team has nothing else and a bad QB that locks onto one guy.

 
-OZ- said:
His career average is 10.1ypc. So yes? 

He also has the most receptions ever in the first four years. Over 50 more than Boldin or Fitz. So while he's not a game busting type, he's a key cog in Miami, one of their few core players.

Not to say he's worth $16 million, but free agents get overpaid every year.
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Maybe that's part of their problem. Slow slot guys with shallow route trees should be safety valves, not your leading receiver.

I can't pinpoint the problem in Miami. I feel like there are a lot of contributing factors. The run game needs to improve, the pass blocking needs to improve, the QB needs to throw downfield more, the coaches need to coach the QB to throw downfield some more, and last but not least, they need to give the QB a better WR1 than Parker.

 
FF Ninja said:
Maybe that's part of their problem. Slow slot guys with shallow route trees should be safety valves, not your leading receiver.

I can't pinpoint the problem in Miami. I feel like there are a lot of contributing factors. The run game needs to improve, the pass blocking needs to improve, the QB needs to throw downfield more, the coaches need to coach the QB to throw downfield some more, and last but not least, they need to give the QB a better WR1 than Parker.
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Not really disagreeing with your point, but the leading wide receiver in New England for four years was Julian Edelman, who is essentially the same guy but with Tom Brady.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
10.1 ypc is pretty terrible for a WR and that's the point. He's pretty one dimensional himself. Getting fed targets isn't all that impressive when the team has nothing else and a bad QB that locks onto one guy.
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I'm certainly not going to argue whether Landry is an elite receiver. But for what he's had to work with, he's done his job very well. 

 
-OZ- said:
Not really disagreeing with your point, but the leading wide receiver in New England for four years was Julian Edelman, who is essentially the same guy but with Tom Brady.
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But he wasn't the most dangerous weapon on the field or the focal point of the offense. They used him to open things up for other guys and he was integral to their system. Plus this may not be a popular opinion but he looks far more athletic to me than Landry does.

Tannehill doesn't see the field like Brady or take enough deep shots like Brady does. Frankly Brady isn't even that great throwing deep anymore but he still does it and he can still obviously be effective with it.

ETA: I know Cutler was pretty bad last season, but Landry averaged 8 ypc last season - that's RB territory.

 
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There maybe an x-factor here...Gase and the current management team are probably on thin ice...they probably don't feel secure enough in their jobs to let a quality player like Landry walk for nothing...therefore they are forced into short-term thinking of what helps them this season...never a great spot for a franchise to be in...

 
-OZ- said:
Not really disagreeing with your point, but the leading wide receiver in New England for four years was Julian Edelman, who is essentially the same guy but with Tom Brady.
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I feel like that's by design. NE had to adapt to that style of play due to Tom's age and to keep the pass rush off of him. To get by with the dink and dunk, you need a QB who can read the defenses and get the ball out quickly with precise timing. You also need an effective run game to keep the LBs close to the LoS. That doesn't seem to be what's going on in Miami. They call a normal play and whoever is behind center takes a normal drop and ends up throwing to Landry even if he wasn't supposed to be the first read.

 
I think it's possible they are able to trade him, but it wouldnt be for more than a 3rd or 4th at best.  There are quite a few teams with oodles of cap space, so like every year, some free agents are going to be grossly overpaid. Just the nature of the beast.

 
ghostguy123 said:
I think it's possible they are able to trade him, but it wouldnt be for more than a 3rd or 4th at best.  There are quite a few teams with oodles of cap space, so like every year, some free agents are going to be grossly overpaid. Just the nature of the beast.
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If they pull that off, I'll be very impressed. If they pay him $16MM, I'll be the opposite of impressed.

 
FF Ninja said:
I feel like that's by design. NE had to adapt to that style of play due to Tom's age and to keep the pass rush off of him. To get by with the dink and dunk, you need a QB who can read the defenses and get the ball out quickly with precise timing. You also need an effective run game to keep the LBs close to the LoS. That doesn't seem to be what's going on in Miami. They call a normal play and whoever is behind center takes a normal drop and ends up throwing to Landry even if he wasn't supposed to be the first read.
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Was Brady old when he played with Troy Brown and Welker?

 
Boston said:
Was Brady old when he played with Troy Brown and Welker?
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No, but that was only half the equation. The other half was to minimize the effects of the pass rush. Brady is not infallible if you can get pressure on him. But you can't get pressure on him if he's releasing the ball about 2 seconds after the snap.

 
FF Ninja said:
No, but that was only half the equation. The other half was to minimize the effects of the pass rush. Brady is not infallible if you can get pressure on him. But you can't get pressure on him if he's releasing the ball about 2 seconds after the snap.
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I know that which is why I only asked about the age comment...

 
FF Ninja said:
I feel like that's by design. NE had to adapt to that style of play due to Tom's age and to keep the pass rush off of him. To get by with the dink and dunk, you need a QB who can read the defenses and get the ball out quickly with precise timing. You also need an effective run game to keep the LBs close to the LoS. That doesn't seem to be what's going on in Miami. They call a normal play and whoever is behind center takes a normal drop and ends up throwing to Landry even if he wasn't supposed to be the first read.
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Right. So the staff wants to keep the only player they have confidence in. 

Hankmoody said:
And from 2014-2019 Edelman will earn right around $21M from the Patriots.  Not per year, for all 6 combined.
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Sure, nobody here is arguing that he deserves $16 million. 

 
-OZ- said:
Right. So the staff wants to keep the only player they have confidence in. 
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I'm beginning to think people might be right that this is just an attempt to trade him. They straight up can't afford to tag him: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

I mean, I know they could rework contracts and whatnot, but they also will need to create some room for rookies. This has to be a ruse. Might be a good time to buy low on Stills and Parker if anyone wants those guys. 

 
FF Ninja said:
I'm beginning to think people might be right that this is just an attempt to trade him. They straight up can't afford to tag him: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

I mean, I know they could rework contracts and whatnot, but they also will need to create some room for rookies. This has to be a ruse. Might be a good time to buy low on Stills and Parker if anyone wants those guys. 
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Maybe. But the same logic would apply to other teams, he's not worth that much salary. 

Perhaps they'll work a long term deal.

 
-OZ- said:
Maybe. But the same logic would apply to other teams, he's not worth that much salary. 

Perhaps they'll work a long term deal.
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Yeah, I'm guessing it would be like the Matt Cassel trade. NE franchised him, but let KC agree to terms on multi-year deal with him and then traded him. I can't imagine anyone paying him $16M for one year.

 
FF Ninja said:
Yeah, I'm guessing it would be like the Matt Cassel trade. NE franchised him, but let KC agree to terms on multi-year deal with him and then traded him. I can't imagine anyone paying him $16M for one year.
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Any guesses? 

The obvious imo is San Fran. 

 
-OZ- said:
Any guesses? 

The obvious imo is San Fran. 
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They are playing fast and loose with their draft picks and money. But I don't know if Shanahan is that slot-heavy. They've also already got Trent Taylor. 

The Jets and Bears could use the WR help. The Bills could use the help, but not sure if they want Zay in the slot or not. They had him play outside after they got Matthews, but they might prefer him inside. If Oakland cuts ties with Crabtree, Landry wouldn't be a bad replacement although I still like Crabtree better. The Panthers could use another WR, but CMC and Olsen have Landry's route tree covered. Maybe Baltimore?

 
-OZ- said:
Any guesses? 

The obvious imo is San Fran. 
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It will be tough to trade him now that they've set the bar at $16MM for year one. If a new team wants to negotiate with him that would need to be the starting point since he could always just sign, take the money and be back on the market next season. I guess teams like Cleveland and the Jets could have interest since they have enough cap space to front load the contracts - Cleveland also has a ton of picks.

SF could work as well as they still have a bunch of cap space and Garropolo could put him to good use - although they already have a cheap version of Landry in Trent Taylor.

 
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If I were trying to develop a rookie QB and had a ton of cap space available to me it would make a lot of sense to have Landry around as a security blanket to build his confidence. Sounds like CLE would be a good fit to me. CLE also has a tough time getting FA's to sign there as well, so they may be willing to pay a little above market value and get a deal in place before FA begins. I'm pretty sure the Britt/Coleman duo didn't work out quite as planned and Gordon is a smoke ring away from effectively retiring. 

 
BoltBacker said:
If I were trying to develop a rookie QB and had a ton of cap space available to me it would make a lot of sense to have Landry around as a security blanket to build his confidence. Sounds like CLE would be a good fit to me. CLE also has a tough time getting FA's to sign there as well, so they may be willing to pay a little above market value and get a deal in place before FA begins. I'm pretty sure the Britt/Coleman duo didn't work out quite as planned and Gordon is a smoke ring away from effectively retiring. 
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I could see Cleveland ponying up, they literally HAVE to spend money and have a crazy amount of picks at their disposal. He would help their passing game and there he wouldn't need to be the focal point of an offense.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
It will be tough to trade him now that they've set the bar at $16MM for year one. If a new team wants to negotiate with him that would need to be the starting point since he could always just sign, take the money and be back on the market next season. I guess teams like Cleveland and the Jets could have interest since they have enough cap space to front load the contracts - Cleveland also has a ton of picks.

SF could work as well as they still have a bunch of cap space and Garropolo could put him to good use - although they already have a cheap version of Landry in Trent Taylor.
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Agree...the front-load part for those teams would be the way to go...for the Jets it would be another recruiting tool to get Cousins as well...Taylor showed enough last year that San Fran might want to pay him the pennies he costs compared to Landry and use that $ elsewhere...

 
Dr. Octopus said:
10.1 ypc is pretty terrible for a WR and that's the point. He's pretty one dimensional himself. Getting fed targets isn't all that impressive when the team has nothing else and a bad QB that locks onto one guy.
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Exactly. No defensive coordinator has ever woken in a cold sweat thinking, man we really need to contain Jarvis Landry. 

 
FF Ninja said:
I'm beginning to think people might be right that this is just an attempt to trade him. They straight up can't afford to tag him: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

I mean, I know they could rework contracts and whatnot, but they also will need to create some room for rookies. This has to be a ruse. Might be a good time to buy low on Stills and Parker if anyone wants those guys. 
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It's a big gamble if so.  Once he signs the FT tender that money is guaranteed.  He could ride the Kirk Cousins express if they aren't careful.

Even if he doesn't sign it just yet, the team can't back out of it now.  The only thing they can do now is rescind it which makes Landry an Unrestricted Free Agent immediately.  The Dolphins lose exclusive negotating rights  get no matching rights, and get no compensation if he signs elsewhere.  It's the same as if they released him.

Their only choice now is to reach a long-term agreement.  I didn't read the link, do we know if they extended him the Exclusive- or Non-Exclusive- tag?  That's probably the biggest indicator signal.  If they gave him the Non-Exclusive tag he's allowed to negotiate with other teams.  While it's unlikely anyone would make a formal offer, they can probably go back to MIA and say "hey, we've agreed in principle with Landry, what do you want for him?".

If it's the Exclusive tag then they are just morons.

 
Non-exlusive tag.  Not as big an indicator as I thought, there have been a lot more Non-exclusive tags given than I realized, with none of them recently resulting in a guy changing teams that year.  It saves the team a teeny bit of money (average of the top 5 over the last five years vs. the top 5 from current year only).

 
petekrum said:
Exactly. No defensive coordinator has ever woken in a cold sweat thinking, man we really need to contain Jarvis Landry. 
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I don't think anybody is arguing he's an elite game changer like Julio Jones, but he's a legit #1 WR, albeit on the lower end, like Doug Baldwin. I would have no problem giving him 10 million a year, and he's light years ahead of Trent Taylor, who I agree showed some talent. 

 
travdogg said:
I don't think anybody is arguing he's an elite game changer like Julio Jones, but he's a legit #1 WR, albeit on the lower end, like Doug Baldwin. I would have no problem giving him 10 million a year, and he's light years ahead of Trent Taylor, who I agree showed some talent. 
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He's totally miscast as a #1 WR. He's a solid slot guy, no doubt about that but paying him even $10MM would be a mistake. He's a better player than Taylor but we're talking about an UDFA making peanuts that could do the same job, albeit not quite as well at this point (and to be fair likely never).

 
petekrum said:
Exactly. No defensive coordinator has ever woken in a cold sweat thinking, man we really need to contain Jarvis Landry. 
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Not every WR has to do that, though. Same for players at other positions. Not everyone is Jerry Rice or Reggie White, etc. Most are not that elite regardless of position.

 
I’m a huge fan of Landry, and was hoping to see how he would do on another team.  I think he could put up top 5 numbers in another offense, plus he plays to the whistle every down.  

 
Dr. Octopus said:
He's totally miscast as a #1 WR. He's a solid slot guy, no doubt about that but paying him even $10MM would be a mistake. He's a better player than Taylor but we're talking about an UDFA making peanuts that could do the same job, albeit not quite as well at this point (and to be fair likely never).
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Do we know for sure Landry is just a slot guy? I don't think he's had much in the way of smart coaches in Miami.

 
travdogg said:
Do we know for sure Landry is just a slot guy? I don't think he's had much in the way of smart coaches in Miami.
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Well, he's slow, un-athletic and that's all he's been used as on a team that wasn't exactly loaded with outside talent so I'll say "yes" but I'm willing to be open-minded about it if he ever shows otherwise.

What makes you sure that he's not just a slot guy?

 
Just to be fair, Landry is very good at what he does and I do think he's a valuable player in this league - I just don't think he's not worth even close to franchise tag money but I'm glad a team like the Dolphins think he is.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Well, he's slow, un-athletic and that's all he's been used as on a team that wasn't exactly loaded with outside talent so I'll say "yes" but I'm willing to be open-minded about it if he ever shows otherwise.

What makes you sure that he's not just a slot guy?
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I'm not sure he isn't, I just think there is a decent chance he isn't. He's had no problems beating top slot corners, and teams have moved their bet guys into the slot and still had trouble with Landry. 

The slow, unathletic thing isn't true at all. He had a bad combine 4 years ago, but he's very quick on the field. He was a great returner in addition to his receiving skills. 

 
travdogg said:
I'm not sure he isn't, I just think there is a decent chance he isn't. He's had no problems beating top slot corners, and teams have moved their bet guys into the slot and still had trouble with Landry. 

The slow, unathletic thing isn't true at all. He had a bad combine 4 years ago, but he's very quick on the field. He was a great returner in addition to his receiving skills. 
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quick =/ fast (or not slow)

 
Dr. Octopus said:
He's totally miscast as a #1 WR. He's a solid slot guy, no doubt about that but paying him even $10MM would be a mistake. He's a better player than Taylor but we're talking about an UDFA making peanuts that could do the same job, albeit not quite as well at this point (and to be fair likely never).
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Are we using the "#1 wr" the same way?  Landry is the primary receiver most of the time. But not an outside, deep threat. Not the X. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Well, he's slow, un-athletic and that's all he's been used as on a team that wasn't exactly loaded with outside talent so I'll say "yes" but I'm willing to be open-minded about it if he ever shows otherwise.

What makes you sure that he's not just a slot guy?
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Because he was more than just a slot WR in college.

Because he only ran 47% of his routes from the slot in 2017 according to this

In 2016 Landry ran 72% of his routes from the slot. Not saying he isn't primarily a slot WR. Just saying he wins in more ways than that, and he isn't just a slot WR.

 
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