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Is this forum still an Anti Trump Echo Chamber (Was: just a liberal echo chamber?) (2 Viewers)

Joe Bryant said:
This feels much different to me this time. I've never seen as much pre judging and generalizing as I have in the last couple of years. I'm glad you've had a different experience. 
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I have but I'm a veteran of old local blog & forum wars. Even when Trump / anti-Trump folks were throwing beer bottles at each other here I still viewed it as a relative safe space. I still do. I have to thank you for that, sincerely, overall it's a great group here. I've always felt the mix was great, though obviously it needs some more Trump counterbalance these days. It really to me always seemed like it was an extension of TSP where some mutual respect and demanding support for ideas was always required. Kudos to you and the FBGs team for that.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
This feels much different to me this time. I've never seen as much pre judging and generalizing as I have in the last couple of years. I'm glad you've had a different experience. 
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It's different, in my opinion, because you have one political party normalizing the actions of someone clearly unfit for office, who is damaging american institutions, and not standing up for the values of our country.

- Every day that goes by where the Russian sanctions, voted on by congress, are not enacted is a reason for patriotic outrage.

- Every day that goes by where POTUS is not instructing the heads of our institutions to prepare against Russian meddling in future elections is reason for patriotic outrage.

- Every situation where Trump seeks to undermine the free press in our nation, or the judiciary, and is not called on it by folks of both parties, is a reason for patriotic outrage.

...

The list of incredibly monumental and serious challenges Trump is posing to our system is long.  

If it feels different this time, it's because these are not just policy differences.  This isn't just a decision, or a debate, on what the best path to immigration reform is.  These are issues that run to the core of our democracy, of american values, our standing in the world, and what behavior we should expect from our President.

The folks on the right are largely silent about this, which is incredibly unfortunate, and if you want to know the honest truth here - THAT is what's different this time.

The silence of a single political party in the face of some of the most grave abuses of power in our nations history.

 
SinbadTheSailor said:
How about this: until those on the right stand up against Trump, his abuses, his sexual assault history, his contempt for the media, for american institutions, for his support of strongmen across the globe...until those on the right start speaking out against the many issues of Trump, the left will continue to hammer them on it.

And further - when this happens, it's not the fault of the liberals, or progressives.  It's the fault of those on the right who stay silent while this man runs roughshod over the institutions, values and country that we all love.





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Thanks. I agree in principle but I don't know how this actually plays out in reality.

Our Republican Tennessee Governor, Bill Haslam called for Trump to drop out of the race when the "grab them" video was released. But that was a while back. Few people know that about him and don't remember it. When Haslam visits the White House, he's lumped into the same bigot / racist / abuser as every other Republican.  

So yes, I'm not sure there's a good answer. 

I think the answer may be more what Maurile said about trying to understand our own biases and what I've said about trying not to pre judge and instead listen to opinions different than my own.

 
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Ditka Butkus said:
And there is another problem...Lumping everyone together.... From this thread the question is why will the conservatives not engage in conversation...Conversation has to go both directions and can't end in you are a troll, you are a bigot, you are a racist, you are a misogynist...That just turns the other side off...What you all fail to realize is that you have the ability to change minds or the way one may look at a particular subject but just when you get to that point...
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Ramblin Wreck said:
:lmao:   Trolling is not something you disagree with.  The guy asked a legit question and the responses in here pretty much told him his answer.  He even came back and said as much.
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The opening post was not a legit question, it seemed more of a joke. I believe the guy posted like 2 more times in the thread with no substantive comments. I don't honestly really care but that what it was.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I agree in principle but I don't know how this actually plays out in reality.

Our Republican Tennessee Governor, Bill Haslam called for Trump to drop out of the race when the "grab them" video was released. But that was a while back. Few people know that about him and don't remember it. When Haslam visits the White House, he's lumped into the same bigot / racist / abuser as every other Republican. 

It's sort of like when my Christian friends expect every Islamic leader in the US to apologize publicly anytime there is a terrorist event associated with someone of Islamic faith. It's tiring after a while. 

So yes, I'm not sure there's a good answer. 

I think the answer may be more what Maurile said about trying to understand our own biases and what I've said about trying not to pre judge and instead listen to opinions different than my own.
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For every 1 Bill Haslam, there are 100 GOP folks who refuse to cross Trump publicly.  So while the Bill Haslam's are admirable, they're non-representative.

And regarding similarities to Islam and terrorism, I can see how you'd think it was similar, however, a more apt comparison would be that if an Islamic leader were interviewed after a terrorist attack, and asked a question "Do you support killing innocent people in acts of terrorism" and they waffled on the answer, repeatedly, almost to a T across all Islamic leaders, you'd have a HUGE problem.

That's what's happening in the GOP.  To a person nearly, they're refusing to step up and call out bad behavior for what it is. 

So who is left to do it?  The left.  And who then is blamed for doing it? The left.  Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
This feels much different to me this time. I've never seen as much pre judging and generalizing as I have in the last couple of years. I'm glad you've had a different experience. 
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In past ideological battles on this board, both sides had substantive ammunition for stating their cases. And on some issues, like your tax reduction and immigration concerns, still may have. But the current leader of one side is a blithering mass of inarticulateness, leaving the supporters of his actual policies foundering to explain them. Those give up eventually and leave the battlefield for those most ill-equipped to continue the fight. The Trump supporters on this board desperately need a champion; lacking one is a big part of why they seem to be getting picked on.

Plus, the man is the motherlode of material for jokesters. And buffoonery has always been red meat for the left in particular. Put a flag waver or a Bible toter in the bulls-eye and comics, Hollywood lefties and cynical media people won't be able to deny their fundamental natures.

 
Joe Bryant said:
This feels much different to me this time. I've never seen as much pre judging and generalizing as I have in the last couple of years. I'm glad you've had a different experience. 
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I disagree.  We have more specific examples from this President in which to criticize.  Examples of things he says and does and the actions he takes.  It's concrete evidence in which to judge.  Unlike Obama, where most of the criticism and complaints were mostly about who he was and not anything specific related to his actions.  IMO.

 
Joe Bryant said:
If I wanted lower taxes or more strict immigration, I wouldn't discuss it on this forum. Which kind of sucks as it's my forum. But it's where we are.
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I don’t understand this. Why not? I have discussed both of these issues at length in this forum and I have learned much; it has been enjoyable and valuable. Sure there are trolls but so what? I usually ignore them. Sure there are insults- I think I’ve been attacked and insulted as much as anyone here- but again so what? It’s the internet, none of these people know me, and I don’t care if they insult me. There are enough smart people here on all sides of each issue to engage in a good informative debate and discussion- that’s why I’m here and that’s what J care about. 

BUT- if I can offer one piece of hopefully constructive criticism, Joe- IMO it was a big mistake to create this subforum. It’s created an insular environment here, in which we hear the same voices over and over again. I think having political debates as part of the wider free for all discussion allowed them to be less insular and more diverse. I urge you to end this experiment and move these topics back to the main forum where they belong. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
In past ideological battles on this board, both sides had substantive ammunition for stating their cases. And on some issues, like your tax reduction and immigration concerns, still may have. But the current leader of one side is a blithering mass of inarticulateness, leaving the supporters of his actual policies foundering to explain them. Those give up eventually and leave the battlefield for those most ill-equipped to continue the fight. The Trump supporters on this board desperately need a champion; lacking one is a big part of why they seem to be getting picked on.

Plus, the man is the motherlode of material for jokesters. And buffoonery has always been red meat for the left in particular. Put a flag waver or a Bible toter in the bulls-eye and comics, Hollywood lefties and cynical media people won't be able to deny their fundamental natures.
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Using your warfare analogy...Many in the Military may not agree with a particular commander but they believe in the mission...So they fight....The Right/GOP may not be happy with their commander but the overall mission is still in play so they fight...Do you think they are going to surrender to the Dems. because their commander is ####..

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Using your warfare analogy...Many in the Military may not agree with a particular commander but they believe in the mission...So they fight....The Right/GOP may not be happy with their commander but the overall mission is still in play so they fight...Do you think they are going to surrender to the Dems. because their commander is ####..
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But just to be clear on this forum with a few exceptions they have.

 
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dschuler said:
What do you think the answer is, or are you just trying to troll?  Almost every political FFA thread is another form of Trump bashing, just look where people took this thread.  It’s not constructive, it’s immature, unproductive, and mind numbing. If you can’t see that, maybe you aren’t as libertarian as you think.  
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I don't know what the answer is... the person I described in my post (not party affiliated/independent and voted Libertarian in the last two presidential elections) has been decried over and over as a lefty, a Liberal - lumped in with many others who see Trump for who and what he is.

As for Trump bashing, his actions call for it, imo - and that is NOT the opinion of a "Liberal" nor "lefty" - although again, neither of those terms are negatives in any way, and, in fact, I suppose I have more respect for many who associate with a Liberal point of view than whatever "ideology" you would call those who continue to support Trump (because it's certainly not conservatism, not of any sort I have known, respected, admired - and even disagreed with - over the years)

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Using your warfare analogy...Many in the Military may not agree with a particular commander but they believe in the mission...So they fight....The Right/GOP may not be happy with their commander but the overall mission is still in play so they fight...Do you think they are going to surrender to the Dems. because their commander is ####..
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Also to be fair, politics isn't like the army.  In politics, people have the ability to speak their minds without risking "insubordination". 

Also, the president is not their boss/commanding officer.  Congress is a co-equal branch of government.  They are supposed to be a check on the presidency.  They too, represent Americans.  

So while the POTUS may now be the boss of the GOP, he's not the boss of congressional republicans.  They seem to be mixing up party loyalty with American loyalty, to the detriment of our country.

 
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Ditka Butkus said:
Using your warfare analogy...Many in the Military may not agree with a particular commander but they believe in the mission...So they fight....The Right/GOP may not be happy with their commander but the overall mission is still in play so they fight...Do you think they are going to surrender to the Dems. because their commander is ####..
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It shouldn't be Party above all else.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
We're all Pro-America here.
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Sometimes I wonder....I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him but I like our country.  When the stock market fell those 2 days it seemed some people here were actually happy so they could have another reason to bash Trump.    Trump is the POTUS for at least 3 more years and I want the country to thrive in terms of economy, jobs,the market, stay out of a war, whatever.  

The laws, immigration and other stuff everybody argues about here is out of our hands and up to the members of  congress.

 
Da Guru said:
Sometimes I wonder....I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him but I like our country.  When the stock market fell those 2 days it seemed some people here were actually happy so they could have another reason to bash Trump.    Trump is the POTUS for at least 3 more years and I want the country to thrive in terms of economy, jobs,the market, stay out of a war, whatever.  

The laws, immigration and other stuff everybody argues about here is out of our hands and up to the members of  congress.
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Out of our hands?  Congress should be responsive to the will of the people...they're our representatives.  We should let them know what we care about, what we want, and they more or less should be responsive.  

I don't think we live in a country where we vote for someone, and then that's it....they just do their thing for years, regardless of what their constituents want.  That's not America.  

Folks are motivated now because they feel like the country is not going in the direction they want it to be.  Some are laid back because they may be OK with the way the country is going.  Which side do you expect to hear more from?  Which side will be louder?  Which side will be more persistent?

It's the nature of our country, and the system, and is actually a relatively healthy (when done respectfully, peacefully, etc) sign that our country is working as intended.

 
Da Guru said:
Sometimes I wonder....I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him but I like our country.  When the stock market fell those 2 days it seemed some people here were actually happy so they could have another reason to bash Trump.    Trump is the POTUS for at least 3 more years and I want the country to thrive in terms of economy, jobs,the market, stay out of a war, whatever.  
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I agree with this sentiment. I made the exact same argument when some conservatives around here were rooting for Obamacare to fail. Once it was the law of the land, a failure of Obamacare meant that millions of Americans would suffer, yet some people took glee in that prospect, Trump among them. 

 
Da Guru said:
Sometimes I wonder....I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him but I like our country.  When the stock market fell those 2 days it seemed some people here were actually happy so they could have another reason to bash Trump.    Trump is the POTUS for at least 3 more years and I want the country to thrive in terms of economy, jobs,the market, stay out of a war, whatever.  

The laws, immigration and other stuff everybody argues about here is out of our hands and up to the members of  congress.
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Rachel Maddow putting a live ticker on the Dow when it drops 1,000 points but doesn’t when it goes up 10,000 points.

 
urbanhack said:
I disagree.  We have more specific examples from this President in which to criticize.  Examples of things he says and does and the actions he takes.  It's concrete evidence in which to judge.  Unlike Obama, where most of the criticism and complaints were mostly about who he was and not anything specific related to his actions.  IMO.
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Sorry I wasn't clear. I mean pre judging the people in the forums. Someone posts something in favor of limiting immigratin or lowering taxes and they're immediately in the "lie with dogs and you get fleas" group. So they opt out. 

 
SinbadTheSailor said:
For every 1 Bill Haslam, there are 100 GOP folks who refuse to cross Trump publicly.  So while the Bill Haslam's are admirable, they're non-representative.





 
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Understood. What I'm saying is Haslam winds up being lumped in with the 100. As people forget the news from last week. Much less 18 months ago. 

So while it sounds good in theory, I'm not sure that type of thing ever works in reality. 

 
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dschuler said:
Rachel Maddow putting a live ticker on the Dow when it drops 1,000 points but doesn’t when it goes up 10,000 points.
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I watched an episode of Maddow  in the last year when the stock market went up and she did celebrate it. I’m afraid you suffer from confirmation bias. Your comment reminds me of the people who complain that no prominent Muslim cleric ever criticizes an act of terrorism even though every time dozens do. 

 
Da Guru said:
Sometimes I wonder....I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him but I like our country.  When the stock market fell those 2 days it seemed some people here were actually happy so they could have another reason to bash Trump.    Trump is the POTUS for at least 3 more years and I want the country to thrive in terms of economy, jobs,the market, stay out of a war, whatever.  

The laws, immigration and other stuff everybody argues about here is out of our hands and up to the members of  congress.
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Yes.  If America has to fail for Trump to fail, they seem to be okay with that.  The hate is so strong.  Is it because the left is so salty about the perceived treatment of President Obama.  

 
Hawkeye21 said:
For the record, I do not think that all Republicans, Conservatives, Trump supporters are those things.  I do think that the majority of those types of people (Nazis, etc...) are Trump supporters though.  I think that's pretty telling of what type of President we have.
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It is mind blowing that the Board's Trump supporters cannot grasp what you are saying.  But, based on their repeated replies, they clearly do not.  Crazy.

 
timschochet said:
I don’t understand this. Why not? I have discussed both of these issues at length in this forum and I have learned much; it has been enjoyable and valuable. Sure there are trolls but so what? I usually ignore them. Sure there are insults- I think I’ve been attacked and insulted as much as anyone here- but again so what? It’s the internet, none of these people know me, and I don’t care if they insult me. There are enough smart people here on all sides of each issue to engage in a good informative debate and discussion- that’s why I’m here and that’s what J care about. 

BUT- if I can offer one piece of hopefully constructive criticism, Joe- IMO it was a big mistake to create this subforum. It’s created an insular environment here, in which we hear the same voices over and over again. I think having political debates as part of the wider free for all discussion allowed them to be less insular and more diverse. I urge you to end this experiment and move these topics back to the main forum where they belong. 
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Sure. There are certainly exceptions.

I'm sure you know this about yourself, but you have WAY thicker skin than most. The average person will disengage way way way before you would. Including me. People say some pretty mean things to you and you keep coming back. Few people are like that. 

 
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Da Guru said:
Sometimes I wonder....I do not like Trump and I did not vote for him but I like our country.  When the stock market fell those 2 days it seemed some people here were actually happy so they could have another reason to bash Trump.    Trump is the POTUS for at least 3 more years and I want the country to thrive in terms of economy, jobs,the market, stay out of a war, whatever.  

The laws, immigration and other stuff everybody argues about here is out of our hands and up to the members of  congress.
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Everyone in here wants to see American do well. Hating on Trump and is completely separate issue.

 
dschuler said:
Rachel Maddow putting a live ticker on the Dow when it drops 1,000 points but doesn’t when it goes up 10,000 points.
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I'm not sure about what she did or didn't have on her show but dropping 1,000+ points in a day is the news for the day.

Going up for the last 8 years is probably going to be covered differently, no?

 
Joe Bryant said:
Understood. What I'm saying is Haslam winds up being lumped in with the 100. As people forget the news from last week. Much less 18 months ago. 
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What he did 18 months ago wasn't enough then. Trump's still here, and apparently this governor is no longer doing much (anything?) to constrain or at least criticize the problems being created by this administration. Being inactive certainly isn't the same as working to move Trump's agendas forward, but not continuing to speak out against it is still problematic. If you're a Republican and not actively working to correct the problem, you're rightfully considered a part of the problem. If Republicans would reclaim our respect, they need to start standing up for what's right, instead it seems most are just rolling over and hoping things will magically improve on their own. Those of us not in the Republican party can't fix it, only Republicans can. For the rest of us at this time, all we can do is criticize until someone who can do something takes action. Hopefully that changes in November.

 
knowledge dropper said:
Yes.  If America has to fail for Trump to fail, they seem to be okay with that.  The hate is so strong.  Is it because the left is so salty about the perceived treatment of President Obama.  
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Its easy to understand why they are salty...When the Presidency is in your grasp and your candidate should be an absolute shoo- in, and then you get beat, but not just beat....beat by the one individual who represents everything you find fault with...That has to be tough...I still can't believe it happened...We just finished up with the first black president two terms at that...The country is finally heading in the right direction the pickings are ripe for the first woman president...and bam!

 
Ditka Butkus said:
thayman said:
It shouldn't be Party above all else.
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it shouldn't but it always has been..both sides
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Not always. There are a whole lot of people who identified as Republicans a few years ago but have either left the Party or at least refuse to support the Party's current leadership precisely because they do elevate certain other things (rule of law, national security, integrity, etc.) above loyalty to Party. Prominent examples include: George Will, David Frum, David Brooks, Evan McMullin, Ross Douthat, Charles Krauthammer, Bill Weld, Ben Shapiro, Max Boot, David French, Bret Stephens, Dan Drezner, Mike Lee, Joe Scarborough, Greg Mankiw, Colin Powell, Bill Bennett, John Kasich, John McCain, Jeb Bush, George W. Bush, George H. W. Bush, Condi Rice, Ben Sasse, Charles Fried, Bill Kristol, Michael Steele, Ana Navarro, Charles Murray, Meg Whitman, Charlie Sykes, Richard Epstein, Jonah Goldberg, George Pataki, Jennifer Rubin, Christine Todd Whitman.

They get a lot of credit in my book.

I have no idea what fraction of Democrats would act similarly if the tables were turned. Maybe about the same? In any case, putting Party over country is a disturbingly common practice, but not a universal one.

 
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knowledge dropper said:
Yes.  If America has to fail for Trump to fail, they seem to be okay with that.  The hate is so strong.  Is it because the left is so salty about the perceived treatment of President Obama.  
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The hate in Trump is strong because he shows pretty much daily that he's a miserable person. Maybe it's his plan or whatever but people are going to react. People react to president.

 
Also, are there really an overwhelming amount of blanket racism/bigotry accusations in the tax related threads? I haven't gone into those much. It'd be a shame if that's going on there.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Not always. There are a whole lot of people who identified as Republicans a few years ago but have either left the Party or at least refuse to support the Party's current leadership precisely because they do elevate certain other things (rule of law, national security, integrity, etc.) above loyalty to Party. Prominent examples include: George Will, David Frum, David Brooks, Evan McMullin, Ross Douthat, Charles Krauthammer, Bill Weld, Ben Shapiro, Max Boot, David French, Bret Stephens, Dan Drezner, Mike Lee, Joe Scarborough, Greg Mankiw, Colin Powell, Bill Bennett, John Kasich, Lindsay Graham, John McCain, Jeb Bush, George W. Bush, George H. W. Bush, Condi Rice, Ben Sasse, Charles Fried, Bill Kristol, Michael Steele, Ana Navarro, Charles Murray, Meg Whitman, Charlie Sykes, Richard Epstein, Jonah Goldberg, George Pataki, Jennifer Rubin, Christine Todd Whitman.

They get a lot of credit in my book.

I have no idea what fraction of Democrats would act similarly if the tables were turned. Maybe about the same? In any case, putting Party over country is a disturbingly common practice, but not a universal one.
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What does Party over Country even mean?  I know people that voted Trump solely because of the SCOTUS nomination.  Had they voted Clinton that's a lost seat they cannot get back in 4 years when the Republicans hopefully put a better candidate up.  Most of the people I see using that phrase are the hard core lefties who have never, and probably will never, vote anyone but the D on every single ballot which also makes it quite hilarious.

Political party system sucks.  I would love to see John Kasich run as a third party.  I would love to see Bernie Sanders do the same.  I think Gary Johnson should be allowed to join the national debates.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Not always. There are a whole lot of people who identified as Republicans a few years ago but have either left the Party or at least refuse to support the Party's current leadership precisely because they do elevate certain other things (rule of law, national security, integrity, etc.) above loyalty to Party. Examples include: George Will, David Frum, David Brooks, Mitt Romney, Evan McMullin, Ross Douthat, Charles Krauthammer, Bill Weld, Ben Shapiro, Max Boot, David French, Bret Stephens, Dan Drezner, Mike Lee, Joe Scarborough, Greg Mankiw, Colin Powell, Bill Bennett, John Kasich, Lindsay Graham, John McCain, Jeb Bush, George W. Bush, George H. W. Bush, Condi Rice, Ben Sasse, Charles Fried, Bill Kristol, Michael Steele, Ana Navarro, Charles Murray, Meg Whitman, Charlie Sykes, Richard Epstein, Jonah Goldberg, George Pataki, Jennifer Rubin, Christine Todd Whitman.

They get a lot of credit in my book.

I have no idea what fraction of Democrats would act similarly if the tables were turned. Maybe about the same? In any case, putting Party over country is a disturbingly common practice, but not a universal one.
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Most active politicians who want their career to continue have no choice but to follow the party line...The party is what got them elected...You can look at any small city council, county commission, state house or senate ...It's all the same, toe the line or risk losing your seat...Politics is a dirty..dirty.. game.

 
timschochet said:
I watched an episode of Maddow  in the last year when the stock market went up and she did celebrate it. I’m afraid you suffer from confirmation bias. Your comment reminds me of the people who complain that no prominent Muslim cleric ever criticizes an act of terrorism even though every time dozens do. 
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Fair enough, although based on your own example about Muslims it would be people like yourself holding Maddow accountable or Trump supporters holding Hannity accountable for running his jibberish, so your argument is flawed in that regard. 

The General said:
I'm not sure about what she did or didn't have on her show but dropping 1,000+ points in a day is the news for the day.

Going up for the last 8 years is probably going to be covered differently, no?
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Yeah I agree, when the economy recovered with Obama as president, Dems touted it and Republicans notes fundamentals.  When the economy explodes under Trump, Republicans tout it and Dems notes previous fundamentals. Pretty much like that on every issue.  

 
Gr00vus said:
If you're a Republican and not actively working to correct the problem, you're rightfully considered a part of the problem. 




 
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Thanks. I'm not a Republican, but I'm interested in this.

What specifically and practically does "actively working to correct the problem" look like in your opinion? 

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Its easy to understand why they are salty...When the Presidency is in your grasp and your candidate should be an absolute shoo- in, and then you get beat, but not just beat....beat by the one individual who represents everything you find fault with...That has to be tough...I still can't believe it happened...We just finished up with the first black president two terms at that...The country is finally heading in the right direction the pickings are ripe for the first woman president...and bam!
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So they must hate this video?  I play it whenever I need some inspiration 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UecianS561w

 
dschuler said:
Yeah I agree, when the economy recovered with Obama as president, Dems touted it and Republicans notes fundamentals.  When the economy explodes under Trump, Republicans tout it and Dems notes previous fundamentals. Pretty much like that on every issue.  
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That is just politics that will always be there.

The point about "liberals" wanting to see America fail that was being repeated is pretty insulting and annoying.

 
The General said:
That is just politics that will always be there.

The point about "liberals" wanting to see America fail that was being repeated is pretty insulting and annoying.
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Yes, and how many people that accuse liberals of wanting the country to fail now wanted to see Obama fail in 2009?  Probably a lot of them.  Their emotions are on a roller coaster.  

 
SinbadTheSailor said:
For every 1 Bill Haslam, there are 100 GOP folks who refuse to cross Trump publicly.  So while the Bill Haslam's are admirable, they're non-representative.

And regarding similarities to Islam and terrorism, I can see how you'd think it was similar, however, a more apt comparison would be that if an Islamic leader were interviewed after a terrorist attack, and asked a question "Do you support killing innocent people in acts of terrorism" and they waffled on the answer, repeatedly, almost to a T across all Islamic leaders, you'd have a HUGE problem.

That's what's happening in the GOP.  To a person nearly, they're refusing to step up and call out bad behavior for what it is. 

So who is left to do it?  The left.  And who then is blamed for doing it? The left.  Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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I'd add to that that those same people in the GOP had no qualms about calling Obama out for any transgression; no matter how trivial.  

 
Joe Bryant said:
Sure. There are certainly exceptions.

I'm sure you know this about yourself, but you have WAY thicker skin than most. The average person will disengage way way way before you would. Including me. People say some pretty mean things to you and you keep coming back. Few people are like that. 
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Thanks, but I don’t have thick skin, and I don’t deserve any credit. It’s a discussion board on the Internet!!! I don’t know any of you. It amazes me that anyone would bother to whine about what goes on on a discussion board. 

 
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