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Is this forum still an Anti Trump Echo Chamber (Was: just a liberal echo chamber?)

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22 hours ago, roadkill1292 said:

I think you're missing a huge piece of the puzzle by worrying over the lack of opposition in this particular instance (only re: Trump, we have plenty of more equitable debates about other issues). Trump supporters don't participate because they're outnumbered. They don't participate because the man himself leaves them precious little with which to successfully defend and debate.

 And I'll give you an example of that same weird phenomenon happening with another issue, only with the numbers reversed. In the debate about colleges eliminating the restrictions on athletes' incomes, there are about three of us (ok, a few more) who are really vocal about this issue (on the players' sides). The vast majority of your posters, if national polls are any indication, are on the other side of this issue. But they won't come out and debate us. There's plenty of them but they don't show up because they get killed by their lack of good arguments.

 [/rant]

:goodposting:

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3 hours ago, pantherclub said:

Could you talk about what gets a timeout on here because it seems like its a moving target?  I sent you a pm asking about my recent vacation and I got no response.  The post that was tagged was in no way against any rules. 

 

A little more clarity in this matter probably would help things overall.

I rarely respond to PMs about suspensions. Little to no upside.

Looking at your suspension, you were suspended for using an alternative spelling of the f word. That'll get you suspended 100% of the time. 

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

I rarely respond to PMs about suspensions. Little to no upside.

Looking at your suspension, you were suspended for using an alternative spelling of the f word. That'll get you suspended 100% of the time. 

thanks for the response.  Why not a warning first though? 

 

Why wouldnt you respond to pms if a poster was curious as to why they were banned?  Seems like a reasonable thing to do.

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6 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

thanks for the response.  Why not a warning first though? 

 

Why wouldnt you respond to pms if a poster was curious as to why they were banned?  Seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Because it was way over the line and I'm assuming you are not stupid and you knew what you were doing. 

I hate to sound like I'm too busy for something. But I definitely don't normally have time to explain to a guy he got suspended for that. Sorry. 

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Haven't posted here in a looooong time.

I think I remember why.

But seriously folks, are lefties looking around like what has happened to us?

And here I thought right-wingers got triggered when Obama was elected. Left-wingers are like "hold my beer." 

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29 minutes ago, Bishop said:

Haven't posted here in a looooong time.

I think I remember why.

But seriously folks, are lefties looking around like what has happened to us?

And here I thought right-wingers got triggered when Obama was elected. Left-wingers are like "hold my beer." 

With only 39 posts in 7 years you haven't posted much at all...

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“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”

Mark Twain

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I agree with Twain.  trump's landslide electoral victory and his immense popularity within the Republican party, especially Congress, has caused me to pause and reflect.

Edited by beef
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57 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”

Mark Twain

The majority of anti-trump sentiment is spread evenly among dems/libs/progressives, independents, libertarians, non-political folk and traditional conservatives.  So the majority isn't made up of any one group.

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Just now, eurotrashman said:

The majority of anti-trump sentiment is spread evenly among dems/libs/progressives, independents, libertarians, non-political folk and traditional conservatives.  So the majority isn't made up of any one group.

And until proven otherwise, we remain an electoral minority. 

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10 minutes ago, eurotrashman said:

The majority of anti-trump sentiment is spread evenly among dems/libs/progressives, independents, libertarians, non-political folk and traditional conservatives.  So the majority isn't made up of any one group.

That’s not accurate 

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20 hours ago, eurotrashman said:

The majority of anti-trump sentiment is spread evenly among dems/libs/progressives, independents, libertarians, non-political folk and traditional conservatives.  So the majority isn't made up of any one group.

Can you elaborate here on 1) what you mean exactly and 2) How you know this?

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Can you elaborate here on 1) what you mean exactly and 2) How you know this?

You didn't ask me (obviously) but its pretty clear that:

1) There have been lots of polls done on this site asking people if they lean liberal and conservative over the years. And they have been pretty evenly split between left and right leaning.

2) This site is overwhelmingly anti-Trump.

Those two things together seem to indicate that (at least on this site) there is a wide spectrum of anti-Trump support.

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Can you elaborate here on 1) what you mean exactly and 2) How you know this?

First off, it's anecdotal...but there is a pattern. It's clear that there is a lack of support or even anti-Trump sentiment from several posters here which are well known (Ivan K, YankeeFan, Redmond) for being conservative and absolutely not liberal/democrat or progressive.  And then I can list off another 20 or 30 posters who still fall into that same category and some recent detractors in just this year (triman, Kal-El, godsbrother, mr. roboto, steve tasker, bagger)...I could go on and on.  Obviously the traditional liberal posters are going to already be anti-trump, but much of the posting in opposition of Trump is now spread out evenly across the different segments which I listed above. 

It's pretty obvious to me, but again, purely anecdotal.  It would be interesting to find out exactly how many posters here are anti-Trump, but don't identify with liberal/progressive ideology.  

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53 minutes ago, whoknew said:

You didn't ask me (obviously) but its pretty clear that:

1) There have been lots of polls done on this site asking people if they lean liberal and conservative over the years. And they have been pretty evenly split between left and right leaning.

2) This site The Political Forum is overwhelmingly anti-Trump.

Those two things together seem to indicate that (at least on this site) there is a wide spectrum of anti-Trump support.

Fixed.  The subset who post here is a far different political makeup than the FFA or the Shark Pool.  

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5 hours ago, jon_mx said:

Fixed.  The subset who post here is a far different political makeup than the FFA or the Shark Pool.  

Not saying you're wrong, but how do you know you're right?

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41 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Not saying you're wrong, but how do you know you're right?

Maurile did those surveys months back in the forum here, the FFA and the SP.  Jon is right according to those.

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9 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Maurile did those surveys months back in the forum here, the FFA and the SP.  Jon is right according to those.

Thanks....must have missed them.  Definitely in the SP....I only go in the Panthers thread in that mass of nonsense.

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4 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Thanks....must have missed them.  Definitely in the SP....I only go in the Panthers thread in that mass of nonsense.

Looking again, even the SP was anti-Trump on the 1 to 5 scale:

Donald Trump: 2.18 / 5 (higher = more favorable)

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2 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Looking again, even the SP was anti-Trump on the 1 to 5 scale:

Donald Trump: 2.18 / 5 (higher = more favorable)

41/60 = 1 in the SP
121/153 = 1 in the PSF
32/40 = 1 in the FFA

68%, 79%, 80%

Given the claim was "this site is overwhelmingly anti-trump", the FFA and PSF are damn near the same....the SP not so much, which is sort of what I'd expect.  I would be singling out the SP as the outlier, not one of the other two as jon did :oldunsure: 

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

41/60 = 1 in the SP
121/153 = 1 in the PSF
32/40 = 1 in the FFA

68%, 79%, 80%

Given the claim was "this site is overwhelmingly anti-trump", the FFA and PSF are damn near the same....the SP not so much, which is sort of what I'd expect.  I would be singling out the SP as the outlier, not one of the other two as jon did :oldunsure: 

Wow hopefully that was just a very poor turnout for numbers in those forums or things really have gotten slim around here. 

 

PSF numbers are a clear answer to the thread title. 

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13 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Wow hopefully that was just a very poor turnout for numbers in those forums or things really have gotten slim around here. 

 

PSF numbers are a clear answer to the thread title. 

Except it doesn't answer the thread title at all, which is what everyone else is trying to say.  Anti-Trump does not mean liberal, so the liberal echo chamber title isn't addressed at all.

You can like Trump's policies all you want, but how people can idolize and defend Trump the person and his behavior is a completely different question.

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13 minutes ago, KPD said:

Except it doesn't answer the thread title at all, which is what everyone else is trying to say.  Anti-Trump does not mean liberal, so the liberal echo chamber title isn't addressed at all.

You can like Trump's policies all you want, but how people can idolize and defend Trump the person and his behavior is a completely different question.

First part is alot like the Gary Johnson schtick, alot of those claims out there though.

Not sure who you know that idolizes Trump, personally I feel bad for anyone that looks to any politician as a behavioral or moral compass in any way. That's just my honest opinion though.

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

Lots of Catholics in the Shark pool and PSF.

 

Catholics should be voting Republican if they care about human life - abortion.  I am Catholic and it a major issue for me.

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2 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Catholics should be voting Republican if they care about human life - abortion.  I am Catholic and it a major issue for me.

I get that.  But how does it lead you to defend Trump against all accusations?  You'd get Pence if he was removed, who seems actually religious.

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37 minutes ago, KCitons said:

These were also done in March. My answers would be different today vs what they were then. 

I'll do the PSF census again next March to see how things have changed.

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8 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I'll do the PSF census again next March to see how things have changed.

Change Donald Trump question to Mike Pence? (or Nancy Pelosi?)

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26 minutes ago, KPD said:

I get that.  But how does it lead you to defend Trump against all accusations?  You'd get Pence if he was removed, who seems actually religious.

No one is being removed.

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1 hour ago, GoBirds said:

Wow hopefully that was just a very poor turnout for numbers in those forums or things really have gotten slim around here. 

 

PSF numbers are a clear answer to the thread title. 

I don't know that it does. Anti trump doesn't mean liberal. I was replying to the conversation that was going on not necessarily to the thread as a whole. 

And it stands to reason that things would be bleak for pro trump guys. Many of us can't get by his moral character problems to even get to policy analysis.  My primary problem has always been his moral compass and his blatant disregard for anyone not him or his base. With every other president i have ever witnessed you could see in their policy at least a glimpse of them trying to serve the country. I might not have liked the approach but i could see them trying. Not this guy.

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15 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I don't know that it does. Anti trump doesn't mean liberal. I was replying to the conversation that was going on not necessarily to the thread as a whole. 

And it stands to reason that things would be bleak for pro trump guys. Many of us can't get by his moral character problems to even get to policy analysis.  My primary problem has always been his moral compass and his blatant disregard for anyone not him or his base. With every other president i have ever witnessed you could see in their policy at least a glimpse of them trying to serve the country. I might not have liked the approach but i could see them trying. Not this guy.

That is just plain wrong.  Trump has already done a lot for this country (search, not repeating) and is by far the best President of my lifetime.

Edited by JohnnyU
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15 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I don't know that it does. Anti trump doesn't mean liberal. I was replying to the conversation that was going on not necessarily to the thread as a whole. 

And it stands to reason that things would be bleak for pro trump guys. Many of us can't get by his moral character problems to even get to policy analysis.  My primary problem has always been his moral compass and his blatant disregard for anyone not him or his base. With every other president i have ever witnessed you could see in their policy at least a glimpse of them trying to serve the country. I might not have liked the approach but i could see them trying. Not this guy.

Not clear on the bolded? Because of 60 votes in the SP or the 40 in FFA? I would place more value on info like this from the real world. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-reelection-odds-better-than-even-may-top-2016-despite-impeachment-eurasia-212100840.html

As mentioned above I’m not big on looking to politicians for my moral compass as I don’t think highly of any of them and hold myself to a much higher standard. Just me though and understand others may be different. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

 

That is just plain wrong.  Trump has already done a lot for this country (search, not repeating) and is by far the best President of my lifetime.

I'll take a list of policies he's passed into law that have been designed to address most of America and not simply him or his base.  I'll be glad to be proven wrong :shrug: 

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1 hour ago, KPD said:

I get that.  But how does it lead you to defend Trump against all accusations?  You'd get Pence if he was removed, who seems actually religious.

I don't defend him against all accusations.  I have stated here before I would be very upset if it was proven he is an adulterer.  I don't believe he is a racist.  What other accusations are you talking about?

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im Catholic and respect human life.  But realize the need for abortion and that abortion rates go down where abortion is made legal.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna858476

Catholics are also against the death penalty...which doesn’t match the Republican stance...so anyone saying who Catholics should vote for should probably not tell others such things.

Edited by sho nuff

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4 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I'll take a list of policies he's passed into law that have been designed to address most of America and not simply him or his base.  I'll be glad to be proven wrong :shrug: 

This should make it easier to understand. Quite impressive. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/trumps-middle-class-economic-progress-11569786435

Results matter. 

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Shall we go over the number of people killed by death penalty versus people killed by abortion?  Nevermind the fact you are killing innocent babies and not violent criminals.  My goodness the hoops you have to go through to justify supporting Democrats is amazing.  Flat out wrong.

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1 minute ago, GoBirds said:

Not clear on the bolded? Because of 60 votes in the SP or the 40 in FFA? I would place more value on info like this from the real world. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-reelection-odds-better-than-even-may-top-2016-despite-impeachment-eurasia-212100840.html

As mentioned above I’m not big on looking to politicians for my moral compass as I don’t think highly of any of them and hold myself to a much higher standard. Just me though and understand others may be different. 

Right...and many of us come from the opposite direction.  Don't even talk to us about policy until you can demonstrate that you measure up morally.  It's definitely true that going this route leaves slim pickins in terms of voting options, no doubt.

To the bold I said before, I am referring to the slumping "base" numbers that have been happening from the very beginning of his presidency.  For whatever reason, people don't talk about it much but at the start, he was in the 36-38% range now he's down in the 33-35% range.  It's pretty clear that "strong approval" went down and has stayed that way.  Right or wrong, peoples' minds are made up about this guy and I'm not sure those minds change depending on who is running against him.

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16 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

This should make it easier to understand. Quite impressive. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/trumps-middle-class-economic-progress-11569786435

Results matter. 

Sorry....I am not a subscriber, but also not sure what you want me to glean from an opinion piece.  Is it too long to post here?  I'll give it a look.  The stock market is moving up and up that is not in dispute, but that's one aspect of the formula and doesn't apply to over half the country as they don't have money to be in the stock market.  The bottom 80% own like 5-7% of the stock wealth.  And if consumer confidence continues it's decline (though it's still pretty strong at the moment, it's been in decline for a few months now) the market is going to be removed as a talking point as well.  That remains to be seen.  Incomes have been rising slowly over his tenure...the problem of course is cost of living is rising faster, so I'm not exactly sure what the buys either.

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5 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Sorry....I am not a subscriber, but also not sure what you want me to glean from an opinion piece.  Is it too long to post here?  I'll give it a look.  The stock market is moving up and up that is not in dispute, but that's one aspect of the formula and doesn't apply to over half the country as they don't have money to be in the stock market.  The bottom 80% own like 5-7% of the stock wealth.  And if consumer confidence continues it's decline (though it's still pretty strong at the moment, it's been in decline for a few months now) the market is going to be removed as a talking point as well.  That remains to be seen.  Incomes have been rising slowly over his tenure...the problem of course is cost of living is rising faster, so I'm not exactly sure what the buys either.

Middle class is seeing income gains it hasn’t seen in decades. I know you are the claim to be Independent guy that ignores any good news and bashed Trump in here 24/7 but these are the type of results that matter to many Americans. 6.8% increase under Trump, 1.7% increase over Obama full term, .7% increase under Bush full term. 

Edited by GoBirds
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3 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Middle class is seeing income gains it hasn’t seen in decades. I know you are the claim to be Independent guy that ignores any good news and bashed Trump in here 24/7 but these are the type of results that matter to many Americans. 6.8% increase under Trump, 1.7% increase over Obama full term, .7% increase under Bush full term. 

nah...you can see the silver linings thread for the truth on the bold :shrug: 

And in the post you quoted, I said income was increasing finally.  That % is one I haven't seen in the economic reviews though.  I'd like to understand how he got there.   I know that from 17-18 average median income was up .8% and 2 or three years prior to that it was increasing between 1.8 and 3%.  I haven't seen any economic analysis from 2018 to 2019 though.  When I see numbers like what you posted without seeing the context, I am left wondering if this wasn't a "study" of the 10-15 largest population centers in the country or something like that.  So if you can link it here, I'd appreciate it :thumbup: 

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3 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

I missed these. I'm politically right of center but am so disgusted with republicans at the federal level I cannot reconcile anything about the party anymore. I suspect I'm not alone.

I'm praying for rain, I'm praying for tidal waves, I want to see the ground give way, I want to watch it all go down. 

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9 minutes ago, The Commish said:

nah...you can see the silver linings thread for the truth on the bold :shrug: 

And in the post you quoted, I said income was increasing finally.  That % is one I haven't seen in the economic reviews though.  I'd like to understand how he got there.   I know that from 17-18 average median income was up .8% and 2 or three years prior to that it was increasing between 1.8 and 3%.  I haven't seen any economic analysis from 2018 to 2019 though.  When I see numbers like what you posted without seeing the context, I am left wondering if this wasn't a "study" of the 10-15 largest population centers in the country or something like that.  So if you can link it here, I'd appreciate it :thumbup: 

If you can’t open WSJ I would search from a different browser, had no problem on my phone. This appears to be similar, not sure if exact same. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/opinion/steve-moore-democrats-are-wrong-middle-class-incomes-surging-thanks-to-trump-policies.amp

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11 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

If you can’t open WSJ I would search from a different browser, had no problem on my phone. This appears to be similar, not sure if exact same. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/opinion/steve-moore-democrats-are-wrong-middle-class-incomes-surging-thanks-to-trump-policies.amp

Don't know what the deal is then :shrug: It won't let me in...only have IE and Chrome....incognito isn't working either.  The link above, despite my policy of not using fox news opinion pieces for anything of meaning says on a monthly basis the average paycheck has gone up $161 pre tax.  That's in comparison to $4 a month and $11 a month for Bush and Obama.  Keeping that in mind and also remembering that I was asking about policy that has been designed to benefit most of America rather than him and his base, is this what you consider proof or evidence of doing so?  While it's true that wages are increasing faster now, it's also true that the cost of living is increasing and at a greater clip.  Take everything in this article at face value and assume it's correct (huge assumption given the source)...at best we are at "well, I'm not losing as much as I was losing under the other guy, but I'm still losing".  

I'd really like to see the WSJ opinion piece....I can't find a single reputable economist  saying the things in this fox news article.

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5 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Don't know what the deal is then :shrug: It won't let me in...only have IE and Chrome....incognito isn't working either.  The link above, despite my policy of not using fox news opinion pieces for anything of meaning says on a monthly basis the average paycheck has gone up $161 pre tax.  That's in comparison to $4 a month and $11 a month for Bush and Obama.  Keeping that in mind and also remembering that I was asking about policy that has been designed to benefit most of America rather than him and his base, is this what you consider proof or evidence of doing so?  While it's true that wages are increasing faster now, it's also true that the cost of living is increasing and at a greater clip.  Take everything in this article at face value and assume it's correct (huge assumption given the source)...at best we are at "well, I'm not losing as much as I was losing under the other guy, but I'm still losing".  

I'd really like to see the WSJ opinion piece....I can't find a single reputable economist  saying the things in this fox news article.

1 - Joe voter cares more about highest ever income for Middle Class than any policies you are looking for is my position.

2 - Article said it adjusted for inflation?

3 - It's the same article, but I saw this coming a mile away. 

Have a good one. 

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10 hours ago, GoBirds said:

1 - Joe voter cares more about highest ever income for Middle Class than any policies you are looking for is my position.

2 - Article said it adjusted for inflation?

3 - It's the same article, but I saw this coming a mile away. 

Have a good one. 

1. I can't speak for the entire country. I don't know one way or the other. It's puzzling to me that you'd jump into a conversation with this opinion knowing it doesn't have anything to do with what i am asking. Probably more productive just to make a stand alone comment. 

2. Sure. I was talking about the cost ofc living. Inflation is but one component of that

3. Don't know what this means. I read the article you provided and repeatedwhat it said while adding practical perspective as someone in that group.  Do you believe people are really getting a significant benefit from an extra 160 a month pretax?

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