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Is this forum still an Anti Trump Echo Chamber (Was: just a liberal echo chamber?)

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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

I don't want to dismiss your observation out of hand either. It would help me understand what you're seeing better if you could give a link or two to examples of the unpleasantness you're describing - particularly in the tax thread. I realize you're a busy person, so I'm not expecting a response here soon, but whenever you could get around to it, I'd be interested to see what you're talking about.

Thanks. No specific links. Just the general, "when you lie with dogs and you'll get fleas" pre judging sentiment I see. I know if I held any views remotely supported by the White House, even on things like Tax or Immigration, I wouldn't post in this forum. Just not worth it. I see lots of my friends who feel the same. I think there are lots of people like courtjester. I would be if I were in their shoes.

Hoping it changes. Ok, out for sure now. 

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6 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Both parties put their party first that's why they exist.  The Republicans aren't choosing people to harm the country anymore than Democrats due.  Supporting a child molester is disgusting sure but that isn't really effecting policy.  I still don't see how the phrase isn't nonsense other than snarky way to say you disagree with their policies.

 

 

When you support child molesters I'd say you are choosing to harm the country more.

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7 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Well I don't want him anywhere but a jail cell.  That said, the stupid phrase has been thrown out dozens of times in reference to more than just one guy

He was being supported by the President. It was just one Trump’s numerous low points.

I don’t want to be dumping on Republicans, but where Trump is taking the party is really, really sad IMO. Maybe that comes across as condescending but it’s not meant to be. I think the country works the best with 2 opposing groups shaping policy. 

I say that knowing I’m an biased but I think many people who identify as Republicans feel the same. We’ll see what happens in the next batch of elections.

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59 minutes ago, Ignoratio Elenchi said:

Why are you willing to overlook Trump's many faults because the economy is trending up, but were critical of Obama despite the economy trending up during his Presidency?

:penalty:     At least finish his sentence, you completely changed the context.  

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1 hour ago, Bruce Dickinson said:
Quote

 

1 hour ago, dschuler said:

I don’t know if refuse is the right word, maybe avoidance.  @timschochet seems to think she has been upbeat about the market, he’s probably more in the know of all things Rachel Maddow so ask him.

 

I was trying to figure out what you meant when you said "Rachel Maddow putting a live ticker on the Dow when it drops 1,000 points but doesn’t when it goes up 10,000 points."  and what you were basing it on.  

I asked him about that as well earlier in the thread but he never responded. Rachel has never had a live ticker on the Dow or even on foreign markets when the Dow is closed (which is before her show is aired). She has mentioned overseas markets occasionally in passing but never much detail, outside of maybe giving a percentage drop to some news,.

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4 minutes ago, The General said:

He was being supported by the President. It was just one Trump’s numerous low points.

I don’t want to be dumping on Republicans, but where Trump is taking the party is really, really sad IMO. Maybe that comes across as condescending but it’s not meant to be. I think the country works the best with 2 opposing groups shaping policy. 

I say that knowing I’m an biased but I think many people who identify as Republicans feel the same. We’ll see what happens in the next batch of elections.

Both parties need to hold everyone elected to a higher standard.

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20 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks. No specific links. Just the general, "when you lie with dogs and you'll get fleas" pre judging sentiment I see. I know if I held any views remotely supported by the White House, even on things like Tax or Immigration, I wouldn't post in this forum. Just not worth it. I see lots of my friends who feel the same. I think there are lots of people like courtjester. I would be if I were in their shoes.

Hoping it changes. Ok, out for sure now. 

I know you're out for sure now, but I thought I'd check out this thread on taxes to see if what you're saying is happening there. I'm not seeing it. There's definitely some partisan back and forth, and ill speaking of Trump, but it seems like most of the posters are being pretty respectful of each other and there's a decent mix of various political viewpoints involved, including people defending parts of Trump's tax policy. Similarly with the ACA thread (which has been going on for years now) and other health care related threads. Similarly with the various gun control threads, etc.

I think a lot of it is dependent on the topic, but also who participates. Some topics just lend themselves to a higher degree of trolling than others. But for the most part, it seems to me that if you have something worth discussing, and can back up your opinions with facts, a lot of the crap gets cut out. I think you may be overstating things a bit.

Edited by Gr00vus
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4 minutes ago, tonydead said:

:penalty:     At least finish his sentence, you completely changed the context.  

The remainder of the sentence has nothing to do with my question.  I'm genuinely curious why he criticized Obama throughout his Presidency, but apparently due solely to how he perceives the economy has benefited his family, he is "willing to let [Trump's] term play out and reevaluate my position at that time."  

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10 minutes ago, thayman said:

Both parties need to hold everyone elected to a higher standard.

I’m not trying to act like Dems are above politics but this administration isn’t like anything we have ever seen. Everything will be fine, the whole system is bigger than one guy but this guy’s act can’t become what is normal. 

Edited by The General

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17 minutes ago, The General said:

I’m not trying to act like Dems are above politics but this administration isn’t like anything we have ever seen. Everything will be fine, the whole system is bigger than one guy but this guy’s act can’t become what is normal. 

I think everything will be fine once we get through it.  I'm hoping the end result of this administration is that it gets more people involved.  No matter your party affiliation more of the population becoming engaged in politics is a good thing.

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2 hours ago, thayman said:

When you support child molesters I'd say you are choosing to harm the country more.

That's fine but I think the phrase gets used a hell of a lot more often than referencing child molester politicians.

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2 hours ago, Bruce Dickinson said:

How was Maddow acting like the world is going to end?  Did she use those exact words?  Are there clips from her show available where she demonstrates this behavior?

There he is!

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3 hours ago, Courtjester said:

I have been part of FBGs for longer than 90% of the people that post here. I voted for Trump—I own my vote. Am I disappointed in his childish tweets and behavior? You bet. But am I extremely happy in how the current economy has benefited my family? Yes. So I am willing to let his term play out and reevaluate my position at that time.

What has changed on this board is we had 8 years of Obama. I criticized many things he did, but I never once attacked posters on here because of their vote.  Unfortunately, that is exactly what happens every day on this board to anyone who strays from the “group-think” and why (whether trolling or not) the OPs original thesis is being proven as each page passes. 

There will be no champion for Trump supporters on here because I have tried and for every Tim or Tobias legit response, you then have to deal with a slew of insults and name calling. I have been called stupid, I have been called a racist you name it. Just look at this thread alone—there are the same usual suspects doing the same crap and it is tolerated. 

i can say that I have paid my subscription fees for years not because FBG is the end all be all for fantasy info. Let’s be honest,a lot of this football info is freely available, but I supported this place because I truly believed my $$ helped keep these forums free, when many boards went to a pay model.

I spent 9/11 on here. We watched the OJ verdict together. We experienced the horror of Columbine together as a group all on this board. Now I find myself just lurking and if I had a dollar for how many posts I started and just erased because the backlash and name calling just isn’t worth it, well you get the point. 

Where I do disagree with Tim is I thank Joe and David for creating this sub-forum. After the election, the FFA was unreadable. Any new non/political thread would quickly be moved off the front page because of the number of responses to these threads. I like the FFA as it is now because, there may not be the traffic it once had, but at least it is a place to exist where you can discuss the NBA, our kids, hugs, etc without someone acting like a jerk to you because of your political affiliation. 

Sorry for the length...I will bow out now...

With all due respect to both you and our generous benefactor Joehan, it takes courage, commitment and good arguments to be in a minority position in this board. The man you voted for puts you in an inherently difficult position because of his lack of character, empathy and devotion to the common welfare. He offers no solid foundation for anyone to champion.

But historically -- I've been around a long time, too -- we've seen consensus changed on numerous topics here and while those changes may have been parts of a societal shift in general, they also came about here as the results of good posters sticking it out through times when their stances were unpopular. If your arguments are good ones, you'll have plenty of listeners.

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4 hours ago, Courtjester said:

I voted for Trump—I own my vote.

Respect for that, at least.

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7 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Sorry I wasn't clear. I mean pre judging the people in the forums. Someone posts something in favor of limiting immigratin or lowering taxes and they're immediately in the "lie with dogs and you get fleas" group. So they opt out. 

yep.

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4 hours ago, Courtjester said:

I have been part of FBGs for longer than 90% of the people that post here. I voted for Trump—I own my vote. Am I disappointed in his childish tweets and behavior? You bet. But am I extremely happy in how the current economy has benefited my family? Yes. So I am willing to let his term play out and reevaluate my position at that time.

What has changed on this board is we had 8 years of Obama. I criticized many things he did, but I never once attacked posters on here because of their vote.  Unfortunately, that is exactly what happens every day on this board to anyone who strays from the “group-think” and why (whether trolling or not) the OPs original thesis is being proven as each page passes. 

There will be no champion for Trump supporters on here because I have tried and for every Tim or Tobias legit response, you then have to deal with a slew of insults and name calling. I have been called stupid, I have been called a racist you name it. Just look at this thread alone—there are the same usual suspects doing the same crap and it is tolerated. 

i can say that I have paid my subscription fees for years not because FBG is the end all be all for fantasy info. Let’s be honest,a lot of this football info is freely available, but I supported this place because I truly believed my $$ helped keep these forums free, when many boards went to a pay model.

I spent 9/11 on here. We watched the OJ verdict together. We experienced the horror of Columbine together as a group all on this board. Now I find myself just lurking and if I had a dollar for how many posts I started and just erased because the backlash and name calling just isn’t worth it, well you get the point. 

Where I do disagree with Tim is I thank Joe and David for creating this sub-forum. After the election, the FFA was unreadable. Any new non/political thread would quickly be moved off the front page because of the number of responses to these threads. I like the FFA as it is now because, there may not be the traffic it once had, but at least it is a place to exist where you can discuss the NBA, our kids, hugs, etc without someone acting like a jerk to you because of your political affiliation. 

Sorry for the length...I will bow out now...

agree with everything & the sub forum on politics was much needed.

thanx

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5 hours ago, Courtjester said:

I have been part of FBGs for longer than 90% of the people that post here. I voted for Trump—I own my vote. Am I disappointed in his childish tweets and behavior? You bet. But am I extremely happy in how the current economy has benefited my family? Yes. So I am willing to let his term play out and reevaluate my position at that time.

What has changed on this board is we had 8 years of Obama. I criticized many things he did, but I never once attacked posters on here because of their vote.  Unfortunately, that is exactly what happens every day on this board to anyone who strays from the “group-think” and why (whether trolling or not) the OPs original thesis is being proven as each page passes. 

There will be no champion for Trump supporters on here because I have tried and for every Tim or Tobias legit response, you then have to deal with a slew of insults and name calling. I have been called stupid, I have been called a racist you name it. Just look at this thread alone—there are the same usual suspects doing the same crap and it is tolerated. 

i can say that I have paid my subscription fees for years not because FBG is the end all be all for fantasy info. Let’s be honest,a lot of this football info is freely available, but I supported this place because I truly believed my $$ helped keep these forums free, when many boards went to a pay model.

I spent 9/11 on here. We watched the OJ verdict together. We experienced the horror of Columbine together as a group all on this board. Now I find myself just lurking and if I had a dollar for how many posts I started and just erased because the backlash and name calling just isn’t worth it, well you get the point. 

Where I do disagree with Tim is I thank Joe and David for creating this sub-forum. After the election, the FFA was unreadable. Any new non/political thread would quickly be moved off the front page because of the number of responses to these threads. I like the FFA as it is now because, there may not be the traffic it once had, but at least it is a place to exist where you can discuss the NBA, our kids, hugs, etc without someone acting like a jerk to you because of your political affiliation. 

Sorry for the length...I will bow out now...

Great post, very well put. :thumbup:

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9 hours ago, Ignoratio Elenchi said:

Why are you willing to overlook Trump's many faults because the economy is trending up, but were critical of Obama despite the economy trending up during his Presidency?

 

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On 2/27/2018 at 4:57 AM, IvanKaramazov said:

The GOP nominated and successfully elected the worst president of at least the post-WWII era and probably all of American history.  He's a dangerously incompetent racist authoritarian.  So yeah, the forum probably seems like a left-wing echo chamber right now because who really wants to be that guy who defends Trump on whatever his atrocity of the day is?  

BRM, and other care to share?:popcorn:

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10 hours ago, Courtjester said:

I have been part of FBGs for longer than 90% of the people that post here. I voted for Trump—I own my vote. Am I disappointed in his childish tweets and behavior? You bet. But am I extremely happy in how the current economy has benefited my family? Yes. So I am willing to let his term play out and reevaluate my position at that time.

What has changed on this board is we had 8 years of Obama. I criticized many things he did, but I never once attacked posters on here because of their vote.  Unfortunately, that is exactly what happens every day on this board to anyone who strays from the “group-think” and why (whether trolling or not) the OPs original thesis is being proven as each page passes. 

There will be no champion for Trump supporters on here because I have tried and for every Tim or Tobias legit response, you then have to deal with a slew of insults and name calling. I have been called stupid, I have been called a racist you name it. Just look at this thread alone—there are the same usual suspects doing the same crap and it is tolerated. 

[constructive criticism]
The amount of static you get from other users would go way down if you dropped your habit of making blanket statements about liberals/Democrats/"the left" without supporting evidence.  A good example of this is in the thread where we discussed the unfortunate incident where Hawaii mistakenly sent out a missile attack alert.  You repeatedly claimed all the liberals on the board blamed Trump for the incident, but when asked to produce a single quote from a liberal on this board stating so, you were unable to.  You were too busy lashing out at users for being insufficiently critical of Obama, and therefore unqualified to criticize Trump. 
If you tried a little harder to engage other users based on what they actually say instead of some pre-conceived notion of what you think is the worst possible response a liberal could give and assuming all liberals here believe that...   you would get a lot less heat.  Guaranteed.
[/constructive criticism]

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very liberal forum

I'd say 75% at least liberal, maybe more

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8 hours ago, Bruce Dickinson said:

[constructive criticism]
The amount of static you get from other users would go way down if you dropped your habit of making blanket statements about liberals/Democrats/"the left" without supporting evidence.  A good example of this is in the thread where we discussed the unfortunate incident where Hawaii mistakenly sent out a missile attack alert.  You repeatedly claimed all the liberals on the board blamed Trump for the incident, but when asked to produce a single quote from a liberal on this board stating so, you were unable to.  You were too busy lashing out at users for being insufficiently critical of Obama, and therefore unqualified to criticize Trump. 
If you tried a little harder to engage other users based on what they actually say instead of some pre-conceived notion of what you think is the worst possible response a liberal could give and assuming all liberals here believe that...   you would get a lot less heat.  Guaranteed.
[/constructive criticism]

Also, while I personally try to avoid unfairly labeling people as "racist" or whatever based on their support for Trump and often correct people when they do so ... do Trump supporters really have grounds to complain about unfair or even mildly insulting labels in political discussions?  You voted for a man who made insults and unfair treatment a central theme of his presidential campaign. This is the America you wanted. How can anyone possibly justify setting a higher bar for anonymous message board discourse than they do for the Oval Office?

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22 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

very liberal forum

I'd say 75% at least liberal, maybe more

25% of people like Trump and 75% hate him.  Sounds like a very accurate ratio of how the country feels

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19 hours ago, Courtjester said:

What has changed on this board is we had 8 years of Obama. I criticized many things he did, but I never once attacked posters on here because of their vote.  Unfortunately, that is exactly what happens every day on this board to anyone who strays from the “group-think” and why (whether trolling or not) the OPs original thesis is being proven as each page passes. 

I still don't know what this paragraph means. Is the Obama presidency the reason we're discourteous to one another now? A bunch of people liked CJ's post, feel free to chip in with an explanation for us liberal dummies here.

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I swear if we could figure out a way to bottle, "I'm offended" and sell it somehow we could make so much money in this country that we could cure homelessness, poverty, stupidity and Mets fans.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Also, while I personally try to avoid unfairly labeling people as "racist" or whatever based on their support for Trump and often correct people when they do so ... do Trump supporters really have grounds to complain about unfair or even mildly insulting labels in political discussions?  You voted for a man who made insults and unfair treatment a central theme of his presidential campaign. This is the America you wanted. How can anyone possibly justify setting a higher bar for anonymous message board discourse than they do for the Oval Office?

dogs/fleas

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Stir of Echos is one of my favorite movies.

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31 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

very liberal forum

I'd say 75% at least liberal, maybe more

Not liking Trump does not equate to being Liberal.  Are you too dense to understand this?  I don't like being impolite on here but I fear it's come to that.

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8 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Not liking Trump does not equate to being Liberal.  

THEY DON'T GET IT.

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22 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I swear if we could figure out a way to bottle, "I'm offended" and sell it somehow we could make so much money in this country that we could cure homelessness, poverty, stupidity and Mets fans.

Check out the $$$ generated by the political consulting industry.

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20 hours ago, Courtjester said:

What has changed on this board is we had 8 years of Obama. I criticized many things he did, but I never once attacked posters on here because of their vote.

I just want to say total respect for your post and what you say about your family. Your values are great.

And I'm sure you're not coming back to discuss, which is fine, I just want to highlight this snip to make a point: sorry, but what has changed? I take things weren't any different under Bush and Clinton too? And Joe himself said he thinks things are different this time.

Ok, if so, why? I guess it's just mysterious, this mystery of why good people who used to show deference and respect in debate just now suddenly act differently? 

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31 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Not liking Trump does not equate to being Liberal.  Are you too dense to understand this?  I don't like being impolite on here but I fear it's come to that.

I didn't say it did mean that, you did.

name calling again, tsk tsk    being hateful and mean, c'mon now !!

2/3 of the ban AR15 poll suggests about 2/3 anti-gun .... couple that with hate Trump posts and such, yes I think 75% liberal is a good number

I challenge you to create a new username, post something ultra conservative that liberals stand for and see how it goes.

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19 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I didn't say it did mean that, you did.

name calling again, tsk tsk    being hateful and mean, c'mon now !!

2/3 of the ban AR15 poll suggests about 2/3 anti-gun .... couple that with hate Trump posts and such, yes I think 75% liberal is a good number

I challenge you to create a new username, post something ultra conservative that liberals stand for and see how it goes.

Why would I do that?  I'm not a troll who creates multiple accounts on forums.  I am also not a Liberal although I do lean more that way than Conservative.  Also, I have not yet to call people names here.  You are failing to comprehend that not everyone who disagrees with ultra conservative posts are Liberal, probably not even 75%.

I challenge you to find out if your 75% Liberal statement is remotely accurate or not.

Edited by Hawkeye21

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18 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I didn't say it did mean that, you did.

name calling again, tsk tsk    being hateful and mean, c'mon now !!

2/3 of the ban AR15 poll suggests about 2/3 anti-gun .... couple that with hate Trump posts and such, yes I think 75% liberal is a good number

I challenge you to create a new username, post something ultra conservative that liberals stand for and see how it goes.

Trump coming after your guns, stealthycat. Going to take guns from Americans and figure out due process later. 

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23 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I still don't know what this paragraph means. Is the Obama presidency the reason we're discourteous to one another now? A bunch of people liked CJ's post, feel free to chip in with an explanation for us liberal dummies here.

“Just when I  thought I was out, they pull me back in.”

The point I was making was there were people who didn’t  like Obama on FBGs but they crtitcized OBAMA and his policies NOT the people who voted for him.

Typical Trump thread progression on here:

Post one—Trump sucks!! 

Post two—-(quoting post one) And he is stupid!!!

Post three—(quoting post two) And he is a racist and a Nazi 

Post Four—(will usually start with either) Well so are most Trump voters (or the ever popular) How can Trump voters.....insert whatever...

Almost every single Trump thread progresse to attack the people that voted for him and not Trump himself. If you hate the guy—which many, many do, then attack THE GUY—not a person who exercised their right to vote. No wonder there aren’t many Trump posters on here. 

Maybe at 48 years old I am becoming senile, but you never saw that on FBGs when Obama was president. We had fun (some times heated) debates and meaningful discourse over some of his policies—which some of us didn’t like, but we didn’t use our disagreement as a basis for an indictment/name calling of the FBG Obama voters at every turn.

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On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:57 AM, IvanKaramazov said:

The GOP nominated and successfully elected the worst president of at least the post-WWII era and probably all of American history.  He's a dangerously incompetent racist authoritarian.  So yeah, the forum probably seems like a left-wing echo chamber right now because who really wants to be that guy who defends Trump on whatever his atrocity of the day is?  

National Breakdown of voters..42% Independents, 29% Democrats 26% Republicans...How was the minority party able to elect the president?....If the democrats would have turned out like they did for Obama we wouldn't be having any of these discussions..

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On 2/28/2018 at 10:05 AM, Joe Bryant said:

This feels much different to me this time. I've never seen as much pre judging and generalizing as I have in the last couple of years.

Just a follow up to this because Jester's point is a good one: the point is that for years people have shared personal stories, lives, observations, while also discussing politics in a respectful manner. I take it that was true when discussing Obama and Bush and even Clinton.

The point seems to be: hey people I have liked and respected and shared with for years now suddenly act differently and seem to think there is some personal element to supporting this politician. This really proves too much. Hey people you have respected and shared with for years think this is a serious problem and reflects on you personally. And what is the response? And what is so different about this politician? There seems to be a crux here IMO.

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10 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

“Just when I  thought I was out, they pull me back in.”

The point I was making was there were people who didn’t  like Obama on FBGs but they crtitcized OBAMA and his policies NOT the people who voted for him.

Typical Trump thread progression on here:

Post one—Trump sucks!! 

Post two—-(quoting post one) And he is stupid!!!

Post three—(quoting post two) And he is a racist and a Nazi 

Post Four—(will usually start with either) Well so are most Trump voters (or the ever popular) How can Trump voters.....insert whatever...

Almost every single Trump thread progresse to attack the people that voted for him and not Trump himself. If you hate the guy—which many, many do, then attack THE GUY—not a person who exercised their right to vote. No wonder there aren’t many Trump posters on here. 

Maybe at 48 years old I am becoming senile, but you never saw that on FBGs when Obama was president. We had fun (some times heated) debates and meaningful discourse over some of his policies—which some of us didn’t like, but we didn’t use our disagreement as a basis for an indictment/name calling of the FBG Obama voters at every turn.

Iibitards and liberal snowflakes seemed to be thrown around quite a bit.

I haven’t really spent too much time looking at who calls who whatever but I my recollection is specific posters get crap because they put someone on tilt. 

That Trump himself serves as an internet troll a few times a week with his crazy tweets and his bizzarre beliefs also doesn’t help.

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10 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

“Just when I  thought I was out, they pull me back in.”

The point I was making was there were people who didn’t  like Obama on FBGs but they crtitcized OBAMA and his policies NOT the people who voted for him.

Typical Trump thread progression on here:

Post one—Trump sucks!! 

Post two—-(quoting post one) And he is stupid!!!

Post three—(quoting post two) And he is a racist and a Nazi 

Post Four—(will usually start with either) Well so are most Trump voters (or the ever popular) How can Trump voters.....insert whatever...

Almost every single Trump thread progresse to attack the people that voted for him and not Trump himself. If you hate the guy—which many, many do, then attack THE GUY—not a person who exercised their right to vote. No wonder there aren’t many Trump posters on here. 

Maybe at 48 years old I am becoming senile, but you never saw that on FBGs when Obama was president. We had fun (some times heated) debates and meaningful discourse over some of his policies—which some of us didn’t like, but we didn’t use our disagreement as a basis for an indictment/name calling of the FBG Obama voters at every turn.

Maybe a bunch of 'em go like that. Joe Bryant certainly believes they do, too. Our president doesn't leave much gray area for discussion, though. He routinely says things of an inflammatory or racist nature, things that routinely just gets shouts of "MAGA!" everywhere you look on social media. I honestly don't know how you're gonna work in policy debates when the right really doesn't appear to have any policies these days. We've always got people here ready to discuss immigration or health care or guns or voting rights/systems. I keep being told that stuff I believe is part of the "liberal agenda" and I'd love to know what that means to conservatives and why so many of us are in favor of it, for example.

I guess I'm sorry that we keep calling Trump supporters dopes. And we should probably tone it down.

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

I didn't say it did mean that, you did.

name calling again, tsk tsk    being hateful and mean, c'mon now !!

2/3 of the ban AR15 poll suggests about 2/3 anti-gun .... couple that with hate Trump posts and such, yes I think 75% liberal is a good number

I challenge you to create a new username, post something ultra conservative that liberals stand for and see how it goes.

We’ve done polls here over the years. The site leans conservative. What you are noticing is that opinions are not monolithic within political ideologies, and that they  don’t need to comport with your own views in order to be conservative. 

Edited by The Football Freak

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

How can anyone possibly justify setting a higher bar for anonymous message board discourse than they do for the Oval Office?

I'm all over the map in terms of what I consume. On my morning drive I will flip back and forth between sports, NPR and a local tea party radio station on AM. There is a guy who is a self advertised conservative talk show host and he was going off on the WaPo report about Trump calling Sessions "Mr. Magoo" and Rosenstein "Mr. Peepers." In response, what sounded like an elderly, but very lucid lady called up, and she expressed her conservative Republican and even pro-Trump credentials. And she pointed out how much she didn't like Trump calling people names, and she made the explicit point to the host that it hurts his agenda and that he, the host, was wrong for tolerating that. Basically this sweet, smart older lady from the burbs shamed him all over the am band. Then when she/he hung up, he proceeded to say how right Trump is to eviscerate Sessions because he just won't do what Trump tells him. That was the response. But the elderly lady was right, that really is exactly what Trump does, he constantly insults enemies or even friends he perceives to be enemies. Honestly, yeah, that kind of thing should not be tolerated at all but it starts with his supporters who should reject it before criticizing others.

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24 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

“Just when I  thought I was out, they pull me back in.”

The point I was making was there were people who didn’t  like Obama on FBGs but they crtitcized OBAMA and his policies NOT the people who voted for him.

Typical Trump thread progression on here:

Post one—Trump sucks!! 

Post two—-(quoting post one) And he is stupid!!!

Post three—(quoting post two) And he is a racist and a Nazi 

Post Four—(will usually start with either) Well so are most Trump voters (or the ever popular) How can Trump voters.....insert whatever...

Almost every single Trump thread progresse to attack the people that voted for him and not Trump himself. If you hate the guy—which many, many do, then attack THE GUY—not a person who exercised their right to vote. No wonder there aren’t many Trump posters on here. 

Maybe at 48 years old I am becoming senile, but you never saw that on FBGs when Obama was president. We had fun (some times heated) debates and meaningful discourse over some of his policies—which some of us didn’t like, but we didn’t use our disagreement as a basis for an indictment/name calling of the FBG Obama voters at every turn.

I don't see any posts that do the bolded here. And the reason nobody ever called Obama stupid or a racist (at least not regularly) is because, whatever you might think of his politics or the job he did, it is very difficult to argue that he was dumb or a racist.  Trump is clearly, demonstrably both. He may not always have been dumb but unfortunately his obviously is lacking at this point in his life, in this context, and shows it every time he speaks extemporaneously. And the racist case has been made over and over, and if it wasn't iron clad before "####hole countries" it clearly is now.

Anyway, as to your larger point: I try to be fair and attack the substance of posts instead of posters.  I hope you'd agree with that. But I do think it's fair to call out what I see as hypocrisy on this subject. One of the many, many things that people criticized Trump for repeatedly during the campaign was that his rhetoric was mostly unfair, misleading statements if not outright lies and that he threw around petty, juvenile insults all the time.  In both cases the argument was made that he was ignoring the unwritten rules of civil discourse and that doing so publicly and repeatedly during a presidential campaign (or God forbid from the White House) would end up doing lasting if not permanent damage to it. So yeah, suddenly getting upset about unfair, misleading statements, petty juvenile insults, and a broader breakdown of the unwritten rules of civil discourse seems a little hypocritical to me. Especially since there were repeated warnings during the campaign about this exact thing happening if Trump won. Make sense?

And yeah, the same goes for the people who criticized Trump but are now sinking to his level.  Same charge of hypocrisy works there. But they're just doing what they claimed to oppose on an anonymous message board.  As I said before, Trump supporters who now complain about it are demanding more from anonymous message board posters than they are from the Oval Office.

 

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18 minutes ago, The Football Freak said:

We’ve done polls here over the years. The site leans conservative. What you are noticing is that opinions are not monolithic within political ideologies, and that they  don’t need to comport with your own views in order to be conservative

if that's what you think okie dokie

I disagree

just for giggles ... what you think the % is that voted Democrat in 2016 here?

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

if that's what you think okie dokie

I disagree

just for giggles ... what you think the % is that voted Democrat in 2016 here?

Straight ticket?  I bet it's less than 25%.

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

if that's what you think okie dokie

I disagree

just for giggles ... what you think the % is that voted Democrat in 2016 here?

You misunderstood. That’s not what I think, that’s what was established. The board has been polled. It leans conservative. People don’t need to think like yourself, or hold your views, in order to be conservative. Just a clarification. 

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There's not many of us who are genuine libs here but we are noisy and rude way out of proportion to our actual numbers. I'm not particularly ashamed of that.

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