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spider321

Is this forum still just a liberal echo chamber?

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3 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Calling supporters of our President these things.  

For the record, I do not think that all Republicans, Conservatives, Trump supporters are those things.  I do think that the majority of those types of people (Nazis, etc...) are Trump supporters though.  I think that's pretty telling of what type of President we have.

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11 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Calling supporters of our President these things.  

Not all Trump supporters are these things, but the majority of racists and Nazis are Trump supporters

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5 hours ago, James Daulton said:

Yes, this forum made up of middle aged, largely upper middle class white dudes is a liberal echo chamber.

I mean, we're the liberal's demographic dream. 

This forum is really made up of very high middle class dudes who hated Hillary and now they turned their hate to Trump.

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I think most rational folks dislike Trump.  It has nothing to do with being liberal, just takes being a person who keeps up with the news and has reasonable judgment.

if that’s what goes for “liberal” these days, man, conservatives are really in trouble.

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17 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Honestly @knowledge dropper I'm not trying to jam you, I'd really like to know what you think about Mona Charen's points? 

Supposedly she had to be escorted out of cpac. TBH it's when people are confronted with the choices they have made with Trump that they get very angry.

https://wonkette.com/630408/mona-charen-probably-would-have-gotten-a-better-reception-at-cpac-if-she-were-an-actual-nazi

Mona Charen Probably Would Have Gotten A Better Reception At CPAC If She Were An Actual Nazi

[...]

Charen was booed aggressively, by people who very likely would have considered it a horrible violation of the First Amendment if someone like Charles Murray or Milo Yiannopoulos were booed. By people attending a function where the far-right Marion Maréchal-Le Pen was speaking. As Charen points out…

Quote

Ms. Maréchal-Le Pen is a member of the National Front party, and far from distancing herself from her Holocaust-denying, anti-Semitic and racist grandfather, she has offered him a more full-throated endorsement than her aunt has. “I am the political heir of Jean-Marie Le Pen,” Maréchal-Le Pen told the Washington Post last year. “He was a visionary. He was right about a lot of things.”

It is also worth noting that Actual Nazi Sebastian Gorka got a very warm response at CPAC.

Charen also had to be escorted off the premises by security guards, for her safety.

[...]

 

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12 minutes ago, SinbadTheSailor said:

I think most rational folks dislike Trump.  It has nothing to do with being liberal, just takes being a person who keeps up with the news and has reasonable judgment.

if that’s what goes for “liberal” these days, man, conservatives are really in trouble.

And, they are in a lot of trouble.  If true conservatives--rational, cerebral, thoughtful conservatives--don't find their stones soon, the party will be permanently hijacked by this crew.

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Just now, squistion said:

Charen also had to be escorted off the premises by security guards, for her safety.

This is really what I was getting at. Mona Charen is a serious, undoubtable conservative. I deleted my post at KD, he obviously didn't want to engage the point and I don't want to be confrontational. I think this is just another example of where discussing when it reaches a crux like this is really hard to do for anyone supporting Trump. You can either flush out some very ugly ideas or simply defend the man because that's who you follow.

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54 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Calling supporters of our President these things.  

I agree with kd here (seriously).  I think it's important to distinguish between being a racist, bigot, misogynist and/or sexual predator and merely supporting a president who is all of those things. 

It is insult enough to accurately describe a Trump supporter as the latter, no reason to stretch the truth by describing them as the former.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I would say in many ways yes, it is becoming a liberal echo chamber. Here's why: about 80% of the conservatives in this forum have disappeared. They no longer post, perhaps because because they're disgusted with Trump and don't want to defend him. I don't know the reasons, that's just a guess on my part.

The ones who have left have largely been replaced by trolls. The trolls make "hit and run" posts or "hit and run" threads (like this one) in which they make some inflammatory statement and then refuse to engage in any discussion or debate. A few trolls DO engage in debate, but usually that's even worse, as they repeat falsehoods over and over and when confronted with the truth either change the subject or demand links which they never respond to.

The remaining conservatives from before are quiet and don't post all that often.

Actually Tim, it just isn't worth it to post in here very much.  Your response is part of the problem.  "They repeat falsehoods over and over and when confronted with the truth"  Please, that may be the case sometimes but it happens all the time with the lefty loons in here as well.  

When I do visit this forum it is for enjoyment of reading the crazyness this forum has become.  I do enjoy reading your posts though as you post your thoughts clearly and I don't see you attacking conservatives like many in here do.  

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

What did you think of Mona Charen's speech & article?

Sorry I didn’t respond immediately and triggered everyone.  A guy can’t even go to the dentist for a couple of hours?

Mona has always been tightly wound.  Bashing the President with man-Hater rhetoric on his home turf was not a good idea.  

The entire political realm is toxic these days.  

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Just now, knowledge dropper said:

Sorry I didn’t respond immediately and triggered everyone.  A guy can’t even go to the dentist for a couple of hours?

Mona has always been tightly wound.  Bashing the President with man-Hater rhetoric on his home turf was not a good idea.  

The entire political realm is toxic these days.  

It’s certainly toxic to those who support sexual assaulters who also have a dismal history with respect for women.

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

A rapist is a convicted felon so they can’t vote.  There are probably about 175 Nazi’s in America and racist is a subjective term. Many would consider Maxine Waters a racist.  BLM has been considered racist.  Anti-Trump people can therefore be called racist?

I'd really like to talk about this part, because I want to take you at your word that you truly believe this. I think we should also reach a common understanding of what people really mean when they call someone/something "Nazi" -- not that they are literally a National Socialist, but that they are among a group of white supremacists/white nationalists. I think this is a fair interpretation, given the popularity of Nazi imagery among said groups. 

I really think this is a blind spot in your view of the world, based on wanting to not associate yourself with this type of person. We are all guilty of these blindspots in various ways, so that isn't a knock on you specifically. The simple fact is that Trump's words and actions (and the words and actions of those he associates with) have emboldened this type of person, and combined with the power of the Internet, they are becoming more unified than than they have in quite some time.

A poll done shortly after Charlottesville showed that 9% of the population believes that "holding neo-Nazi or white supremacist views is acceptable" -- obviously that does not mean that 22 million people in America are Nazis, but it does show that there are a lot of people willing to abide Nazis (and frankly, I don't see how you can abide such a person without at least somewhat agreeing with their point of view).

Then there are groups like Atomwaffen, which was profiled by ProPublica recently after they were provided with the secret discord/chat logs of the group. That group has been implicated in 5 murders over the last few years, and has a social media presence that actively talks about genocide of non-whites. In their private conversations, they advocate for violent conflict with the government to bring about a white ethno-state. And these are not old men, the leader is in his mid 20's. 

You can also see the troubling emergence of young white men being drawn in to these groups in many other ways. 4chan is very influential among a certain demographic of young white males, and it is no secret that white supremacist language and imagery is common in that venue. Many claim it is "ironic" or not to be taken seriously, but there have been enough profiles of young  white men transforming into white supremacists for us to understand that this is part of a recruitment strategy by those among the very far right. They "normalize" the behavior, make personal connections, and then convince people to join the movement.

If you're a Reddit user, you've almost certainly encountered this as well. For example, several of the moderators of /r/The_Donald also moderate openly racist or extreme right wing subreddits, often existing with innocuous names like "/r/uncensorednews" and "/r/metacanada." These subreddits will contain mostly "normal" content, but will be sprinkled with occasional extreme right content. Their goal is to normalize the beliefs into acceptability. 

This is something that I've been watching warily for a few years now, and it not isolated to America. All across Europe, extreme right parties are gaining in power. Merkel is being challenged by a young white man from her own party that comes from the more radical right wing of it (Merkel's party is nominally conservative, though mostly considered "centrist"). Marine Le Pen in France and Nigel Farage in England both espouse views that could be classified as "white nationalist" at the very least. Openly identified fascists and clashing in the streets with anti-fascists in Italy before their election. And a common thread among all of this is behind the scenes support from Russia. Russia sees itself as a "last bastion" of Christianity, conservatism, and Western civilization, and actively assists groups in other nations that espouse similar views. 

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4 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Sorry I didn’t respond immediately and triggered everyone.  A guy can’t even go to the dentist for a couple of hours?

Mona has always been tightly wound.  Bashing the President with man-Hater rhetoric on his home turf was not a good idea.  

The entire political realm is toxic these days.  

Understood, thanks for the response. 

But do you see my point about a situation where a conservative called out Trump and his supporters and the response was let's say less than polite?

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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10 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

The entire political realm is toxic these days.  

There's zero reason - I mean reason as in like actual thinking logic - for people who consider themselves conservative to get angry to the point of needing security at a political conference because another conservative criticizes the president. 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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1 hour ago, Gopher State said:

This forum is really made up of very high middle class dudes who hated Hillary and now they turned their hate to Trump.

If you look at elections there has not been 3 different people of the same party elected in a row since the 1920's. It shows that neither party is well liked enough to sustain a dynasty.

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1 hour ago, Tom Skerritt said:

Don't forget "Jews will not replace us!!!"

Eh, let's be real, who among us hasn't chanted "blood and soil" and "jews will not replace us" while carrying torches with our fellow brothers of European ancestry on a few occasions?

Harmless right? 

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5 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The GOP nominated and successfully elected the worst president of at least the post-WWII era and probably all of American history.  He's a dangerously incompetent racist authoritarian.  So yeah, the forum probably seems like a left-wing echo chamber right now because who really wants to be that guy who defends Trump on whatever his atrocity of the day is?  

Here’s the answer @spider321

You’ll see a lot of words and impassioned posts, but here’s the answer I think you, and all Trump supporters still left, should see. Ivan is not on the left, btw. Neither are a lot of the people bashing Trump for being a rotten President, and a truly awful person. 

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3 hours ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Officer, are posters only allowed to start threads if they are going to respond to every troll question that gets thrown at them?  Where is that in the rules?  Joe even said himself last week that people should know when to stop engaging (something I should consider with you immediately) which seems to be a problem for you and those of your ilk.

You should have considered that a long time ago. I will never take you seriously because you are a troll and a whiner. 90% of your replies are a laughing smilie. Because you know you don't have a serious response or because someone has backed you into a corner. I engage thoughtful Trump supporters every day. You don't even make an attempt at sounding thoughtful;. Not sure if it's because you lack the intelligence or that you are seriously only here to troll. My guess it's a combination of the two. So you're right, you should probably stop engaging me. Until you actually attempt to have a thoughtful discussion, I will just mock you for trolling. 

:lmao:  (I saved you the time of posting your only response)

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3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Are we grouping KKK members in with Nazis because they seem to be pretty similar.  There are still around 8,000 KKK members and, I may be going out on a limb here, but I bet almost all of them are Trump supporters.  Trump doesn't seem to denounce them either which is mind blowing.

When you won an election by losing the popular vote by 3 million, you aren't going to push away a single person who will vote for you. 

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3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Are we grouping KKK members in with Nazis because they seem to be pretty similar.  There are still around 8,000 KKK members and, I may be going out on a limb here, but I bet almost all of them are Trump supporters.  Trump doesn't seem to denounce them either which is mind blowing.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/14/543477490/racism-is-evil-trump-denounces-the-kkk-neo-nazis-and-white-supremacists

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3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

 I will never take you seriously because you are a troll and a whiner. 90% of your replies are a laughing smilie.

:lmao: Yet you respond to 90% of my posts.  What does that say about you?

3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I engage thoughtful Trump supporters every day.  

Congratulations.  What does that have to do with me?  

3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

 Not sure if it's because you lack the intelligence or that you are seriously only here to troll.

:lmao::lmao: You of all people questioning someone's intelligence.  Good lord that's hilarious.  

5 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Until you actually attempt to have a thoughtful discussion, I will just mock you for trolling. 

At least you admit you're here to troll, genius.  You aren't the brightest bulb around.  There's plenty of conversations I'll attempt to discuss seriously but as soon as the trolling name calling nonsense starts I'm out.  You and your ilk can claim that's whatever you want it to be if you want but I'm not sure you have the brain cells to determine what a thoughtful discussion is in the first place.  90% of your replies here are to me, HT, KD, or others you disagree with.  

For example, you still don't understand the irrelevancy of the popular vote.  When the election is based on the electoral college, many people sit out and vote because their state is predetermined already.  If it were a popular vote election that might not be the case.  So no one knows what the result would be if the rules were different.  But keep chanting 3 million votes in your wife beater and telling everyone how intelligent you are.

You did get a thoughtful "I wonder what the Easter Bunny thinks about it." post in a few days ago.  That took a ton of brain cells I'm sure.  Well done.

 

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2 minutes ago, jonessed said:

:shrug:

Just pointing out Hawkeye was wrong.

Only if you read "ever" into his statement instead of "currently" or "genuinely," i.e "Trump doesn't ever seem to denounce those groups" vs "Trump doesn't currently/genuinely denounce those groups."

In other words, only if you were looking to start a pedantic argument instead of acknowledging the larger truth that Trump doesn't seem to mind the fact that bigoted, violent hate groups love him.

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

Only if you read "ever" into his statement instead of "currently" or "genuinely," i.e "Trump doesn't ever seem to denounce those groups" vs "Trump doesn't currently/genuinely denounce those groups."

In other words, only if you were looking to start a pedantic argument instead of acknowledging the larger truth that Trump doesn't seem to mind the fact that bigoted, violent hate groups love him.

I don’t see why there is a need to read anything into Hawkeye’s statement.  It’s pretty clear as it is.

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1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That's good.  He should denounce them all the time, especially when addressing the nation.

Why?  If you didn’t believe him last summer I don’t see why you would believe him now.

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1 minute ago, jonessed said:

Why?  If you didn’t believe him last summer I don’t see why you would believe him now.

The link you posted was the first I had seen him say that.

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15 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

:lmao: Yet you respond to 90% of my posts.  What does that say about you?

Congratulations.  What does that have to do with me?  

:lmao::lmao: You of all people questioning someone's intelligence.  Good lord that's hilarious.  

At least you admit you're here to troll, genius.  You aren't the brightest bulb around.  There's plenty of conversations I'll attempt to discuss seriously but as soon as the trolling name calling nonsense starts I'm out.  You and your ilk can claim that's whatever you want it to be if you want but I'm not sure you have the brain cells to determine what a thoughtful discussion is in the first place.  90% of your replies here are to me, HT, KD, or others you disagree with.  

For example, you still don't understand the irrelevancy of the popular vote.  When the election is based on the electoral college, many people sit out and vote because their state is predetermined already.  If it were a popular vote election that might not be the case.  So no one knows what the result would be if the rules were different.  But keep chanting 3 million votes in your wife beater and telling everyone how intelligent you are.

You did get a thoughtful "I wonder what the Easter Bunny thinks about it." post in a few days ago.  That took a ton of brain cells I'm sure.  Well done.

 

I'll question your intelligence day in and day out. Unless you're holding back, you've never shown an ounce of it around here.  But at least I encouraged you to engage. So this conversation was a positive. I hope you decide to learn from it. You're on the right path.  :thumbup:

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Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

The link you posted was the first I had seen him say that.

It was the first link I found searching under, “Trump denounce KKK”.  It wasn’t exactly hard to find.

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4 minutes ago, jonessed said:

It was the first link I found searching under, “Trump denounce KKK”.  It wasn’t exactly hard to find.

I'm sure it wasn't but I haven't been looking for examples of him denouncing it.  It's hard for me to not think of him addressing people and saying there are fine people on both sides.  Very poorly done on his part.

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37 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I'll question your intelligence day in and day out. Unless you're holding back, you've never shown an ounce of it around here.  But at least I encouraged you to engage. So this conversation was a positive. I hope you decide to learn from it. You're on the right path.  :thumbup:

:lmao:

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42 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

This is good news - Riversco’s civil war will end pretty quick

I think he meant 175 on this forum.

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5 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

No, but name 1 Nazi supporter.  

I don't know your real name. I mean, their real names. 

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4 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Don’t be so intimidated by someone that is Pro-Trump/Pro-America.   

Intimidated. LOL LOL. You could support Trump and still speak out when he does things that are racist or nazi-like. Yet I've never once seen you do it. Or anyone else here who is a trump supporter. When I see that, I will stop lumping you in with the racists and the Nazis.

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10 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

It took me 5 seconds on google to find this. The site is blocked for me at work, but I'm sure you have access and will be able to find some names there. On the likelihood that you can't (or won't) figure it out for yourself, start with Rocky Suhayda.

All joking aside, your intimation that there are no Nazis in the U.S. is beyond trolling. Its offensive. If forwarded in true ignorance, your ignorance is dangerous. If not forwarded in true ignorance, I find your posts here disgusting.

"Nazi supporters on this forum"  HTH

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

"Nazi supporters on this forum"  HTH

There are.  What's the controversy?

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