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Is this forum still an Anti Trump Echo Chamber (Was: just a liberal echo chamber?) (5 Viewers)

JohnnyU said:
One of many topics........  :unsure:   We both know that 85% of the posts in this forum favor liberals because 85% of the MSM vote democrat and at least 85% of the posters in this forum also vote democrat and watch said media.
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Even if your figures are right (I have no idea), that’s not the same as an echo chamber. An echo chamber doesn’t allow room for debate or opposing ideas. 

And yes Smolett is one of many topics. But it’s sucking away all the oxygen. In the past few hours I’ve started threads on the white nationalist arrested and on Mark Harris- both very important political topics, and they’re not getting very much attention because of Smollett. That’s fine, whatever people want to discuss, but let’s not pretend we’re an echo chamber for liberals. It’s silly. 

 
timschochet said:
If this forum was a true liberal echo chamber then I don’t think the Jussie Smolett story would be a prominent topic at this point. 
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It's been one of the top lead in stories in the national news in over a week, either first or second.   Not just Fox, all of them.  It's what people want to talk about right now and that doesn't have much relevance to the OP at all.   The OP isn't necessarily about what's talked about, it's about how it's talked about.

 
tonydead said:
It's been one of the top lead in stories in the national news in over a week, either first or second.   Not just Fox, all of them.  It's what people want to talk about right now and that doesn't have much relevance to the OP at all.   The OP isn't necessarily about what's talked about, it's about how it's talked about.
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It should be discussed. But if we were a liberal echo chamber it would fall off the first page. 

 
Pretty good list so far.  When the herd starts to move you could just respond by number as to not get trampled.  

1.”Liberals are clearly the most educated individual alive. Anyone that voted for Trump probably didn’t graduate Elementary School.”\

2- Blatant falsehood!!!

3- If I think POTUS is racist and you don’t agree with everything I say against the POTUS then that makes you racist. I will continue to infer this in subtle ways not to get in trouble

4- Portraying anyone who calls this place an Echo Chamber as a victim. 

5. Starting a sentence with “The fact is” then finishing it with an opinion. 

6. When the governor with the racist collage in his year book turns out to be a Democrat then avoid normal hysteria, suggest “what can I do” and be happy as it quiets down and is swept under the rug. 

7. When social activism goes wrong (a march turns into a mop, or an activist fakes a crime) claim that they don't represent the left and/or have mental illness.

8. gary johnson voter! 

9. What do you mean I can’t insult and talk down to others, what’s a political forum for? But Trump. 

10.   Completely misrepresent what another poster says in order to make them appear wrong.

11- when you get called out on claims that you've made that you can't support resort to name calling, especially "Troll!".

12 - Using the ignore list as an attempt to insult.

13 - If you don't spend every waking hour speaking out against trump, like a lot of the group think does as if they don't have a day job, then obviously you support him. 

 
timschochet said:
If this forum was a true liberal echo chamber then I don’t think the Jussie Smolett story would be a prominent topic at this point. 
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Did you see how it is titled.  The guy has been criminally charged and it reads there are just questions on if he was involved.   But to the point, the last few weeks has seen a return of several posters on the right and the mob mentality is far less pronounced than it had been.

 
Questioning how not burying a topic discussing a strikingly guilty liberal figure equals liberals having the proof that this place is not a liberal echo chamber.

 
JohnnyU said:
We all know, including liberals, that is bs
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No, it isn't. This is a story that doesn't present liberals or LGBT people in a favorable light, we are embarrassed by it and hope it goes away. The popularity of that thread is exhibit A that this forum is not a liberal echo chamber.

 
What’s so funny reading all this is how similar both sides pointing fingers at each other are.  The very definition of pot calling the kettle black.  

 
unckeyherb said:
Tim, your posts in that thread ALONE keep it on the first page. 
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But see I don’t want it to drop off the first page. I don’t like it, but it’s an important story that needs to be addressed. 

And that’s part of  my whole point. I am, in many ways a liberal. But I don’t echo other liberals. Like many of you who call yourself conservatives, I have my own thoughts; sometimes they match other liberals and sometimes they don’t. Sometimes I agree with conservatives. This whole notion of a “liberal echo chamber” is nonsense. It’s designed to help some of you whine about how poorly you’re treated. 

 
per usual for this place, some people are using words that don't accurately describe the situation.  An echo chamber does not allow for dissenting views or stories that make the echo chamber look bad.  that clearly is not the case here but people use the word anyway either because they don't know what it means or are using it disingenuously.  Much like a wall now means any physical barrier of some sort including a fence, echo chamber now means any time a large group of people agree.  

what people should be saying is that this place has a consensus that Trump is an....…..uh, not a very intelligent person and is also a racist/bigot, among a number of other poor qualities.  this consensus is made up of progressives and conservatives, although they are frequently grouped together as 'the left', again either because posters don't realize how many conservatives don't like Trump or are being disingenuous.  

a true echo chamber would be something like the Trump subreddit, although I don't visit there enough to know if they allow anti-Trump threads.  from my experiences, Trump supporters try to stay in echo chambers more than any group I've come across.  I've tried to pass along books or articles that, if they are even slightly critical of Trump or the current form of Republicans, are dismissed with something along the lines of 'I'm not reading that liberal garbage' even if its from a conservative or Bloomberg type source.  its fascinating to me that people don't want their views/beliefs challenged

 
timschochet said:
But see I don’t want it to drop off the first page. I don’t like it, but it’s an important story that needs to be addressed. 

And that’s part of  my whole point. I am, in many ways a liberal. But I don’t echo other liberals. Like many of you who call yourself conservatives, I have my own thoughts; sometimes they match other liberals and sometimes they don’t. Sometimes I agree with conservatives. This whole notion of a “liberal echo chamber” is nonsense. It’s designed to help some of you whine about how poorly you’re treated. 
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I think we're mixing words.

The board is without question hugely anti-Trump. That's not debatable. President Trump runs about 40% approval ratings overall. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

His approval rating here is consistently a tiny fraction of that.

That's fine. It is what it is. But to act like this board is somehow reflective of the mainstream is naive at best. 

Now if one wants to argue liberal vs conservative and how that differs from supporting or opposing President Trump, that can be an interesting discussion. And I realize the thread title says liberal. But I think it's important to accept the board is wildly out of line with the country as a whole with regard to support of the President. 

 
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timschochet said:
But see I don’t want it to drop off the first page. I don’t like it, but it’s an important story that needs to be addressed. 

And that’s part of  my whole point. I am, in many ways a liberal. But I don’t echo other liberals. Like many of you who call yourself conservatives, I have my own thoughts; sometimes they match other liberals and sometimes they don’t. Sometimes I agree with conservatives. This whole notion of a “liberal echo chamber” is nonsense. It’s designed to help some of you whine about how poorly you’re treated. 
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While the remaining 41+ pages of the sub forum is designed to help all of you whine about Clinton not winning the election years ago........don't get bent out of shape over 1 thread that is a small fraction of what the forum is. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
That's fine. It is what it is. But to act like this board is somehow reflective of the mainstream is naive at best. 

Now if one wants to argue liberal vs conservative and how that differs from supporting or opposing President Trump, that can be an interesting discussion. And I realize the thread title says liberal. But I think it's important to accept the board is wildly out of line with the country as a whole with regard to support of the President. 
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I don't believe that anyone here thinks that this board reflects the mainstream level of support for Trump.

The phrase "echo chamber" implies that the thoughts of one particular group bounce around from person to person without being challenged or changed.

By that definition, I think that in many ways this forum is an echo chamber. But it's not a liberal echo chamber. It's an anti-Trump echo chamber.

Because liberal ideas get challenged all the time in this forum. But the one subject that almost everyone in this forum tends to agree on....is Trump.

And that's a hard pill to swallow for the MAGA guys, the Gary Johnson voters, or the "I'm-not-really-a-Trump-supporter-but-you-liberals-are-all-hypocrites" guys.

 
[scooter] said:
I don't believe that anyone here thinks that this board reflects the mainstream level of support for Trump.

The phrase "echo chamber" implies that the thoughts of one particular group bounce around from person to person without being challenged or changed.

By that definition, I think that in many ways this forum is an echo chamber. But it's not a liberal echo chamber. It's an anti-Trump echo chamber.

Because liberal ideas get challenged all the time in this forum. But the one subject that almost everyone in this forum tends to agree on....is Trump.

And that's a hard pill to swallow for the MAGA guys, the Gary Johnson voters, or the "I'm-not-really-a-Trump-supporter-but-you-liberals-are-all-hypocrites" guys.
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Agreed. I think it would help to call it more an Anti Trump Echo Chamber. 

 
To add, it's likely good to call it an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber. But I'll amend that and say it's not a good thing. I think echo chambers of any flavor are mostly negative. 

There are limits, of course, we're not going to have an open-minded discussion on the merits of the KKK or child molesting. But for the most part, things go better when ideas different than the ones you hold can be discussed. I hope we can do more or that there. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
To add, it's likely good to call it an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber. But I'll amend that and say it's not a good thing. I think echo chambers of any flavor are mostly negative. 

There are limits, of course, we're not going to have an open-minded discussion on the merits of the KKK or child molesting. But for the most part, things go better when ideas different than the ones you hold can be discussed. I hope we can do more or that there. 
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Well, seems to me that this "echo chamber" has drawn a bit of new blood, if only to troll the anti Trumpers.

That said, if something is so repulsive, that 85+% of your users agree (that it is), what are you going to do?

 
Joe Bryant said:
Agreed. I think it would help to call it more an Anti Trump Echo Chamber. 
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I don’t agree with this either. Again, echo chambers do not allow for dissension, open discussion, debate. To your credit, this board does. 

Anyhow, what is the main gripe of those who have dominated this thread? It’s not that the majority around here are anti-Trump or anti-conservative; it’s that those who defend Trump and/or conservative views (or in Trump’s case, nationalist views) are subject to unfair harrassment. They are not simply disagreed with, they are hounded, mistreated, insulted, until they simply give up and leave the discussion. It is this complaint, which bears very  little resemblance to reality, that I regard as whining. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
To add, it's likely good to call it an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber. But I'll amend that and say it's not a good thing. I think echo chambers of any flavor are mostly negative. 

There are limits, of course, we're not going to have an open-minded discussion on the merits of the KKK or child molesting. But for the most part, things go better when ideas different than the ones you hold can be discussed. I hope we can do more or that there. 
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I believe a political echo chamber such as this one is mostly a place where people congregate to discuss political topics and have similar political beliefs and opinions, but do disregard differing opinions or beliefs most of the time.   Most posters here are democrats and have similar political beliefs and opinions and aren't very tolerant of differing opinions, or are very negative towards them.  I'm not saying every liberal / democrat poster here is like that all the time.  That is a fact IMO.

 
Joe Bryant said:
To add, it's likely good to call it an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber. But I'll amend that and say it's not a good thing. I think echo chambers of any flavor are mostly negative. 

There are limits, of course, we're not going to have an open-minded discussion on the merits of the KKK or child molesting. But for the most part, things go better when ideas different than the ones you hold can be discussed. I hope we can do more or that there. 
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Hmm... I think you really need to reassess your values if you think an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber isn't a good thing. I would hope most of the western world is an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber at this stage in the game.

 
sn0mm1s said:
Hmm... I think you really need to reassess your values if you think an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber isn't a good thing. I would hope most of the western world is an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber at this stage in the game.
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"Echo chamber" implies that dissent is being drowned out by numbers and volume rather than facts and logic and basic human decency.

 
sn0mm1s said:
Hmm... I think you really need to reassess your values if you think an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber isn't a good thing. I would hope most of the western world is an Anti-Trump Echo Chamber at this stage in the game.
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I dislike a lot of things about Trump, but I also like a lot of things about him and the job he has done as President up to this point.  I don't need to go into the details of it because I've already done that many times.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
I think we're mixing words.

The board is without question hugely anti-Trump. That's not debatable. President Trump runs about 40% approval ratings overall. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

His approval rating here is consistently a tiny fraction of that.

That's fine. It is what it is. But to act like this board is somehow reflective of the mainstream is naive at best. 

Now if one wants to argue liberal vs conservative and how that differs from supporting or opposing President Trump, that can be an interesting discussion. And I realize the thread title says liberal. But I think it's important to accept the board is wildly out of line with the country as a whole with regard to support of the President. 
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This bored is mainstream if you look at the demographics of the participants.  Upper middle class, educated, non-christian white males. 

 
sn0mm1s said:
When facts and logic are no longer agreed upon then what is left? 
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My point is that they are generally agreed upon in this forum, a weird little place where people demand facts supported by citations and there's a crew of bored lawyers waiting to poke holes in every flawed argument.

That's why this place feels like a "liberal echo chamber" now - because in the era of Trump, these things all cut the same way. That hasn't always been the case, and sure enough this place hasn't felt like a "liberal echo chamber" until recently. The timing isn't a coincidence.

 
TobiasFunke said:
My point is that they are generally agreed upon in this forum, a weird little place where people demand facts supported by citations and there's a crew of bored lawyers waiting to poke holes in every flawed argument.

That's why this place feels like a "liberal echo chamber" now - because in the era of Trump, these things all cut the same way. That hasn't always been the case, and sure enough this place hasn't felt like a "liberal echo chamber" until recently. The timing isn't a coincidence.
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I think there are differing opinions of the facts sometimes, or perceived opinions of the facts, whether right or wrong.

 
James Daulton said:
This bored is mainstream if you look at the demographics of the participants.  Upper middle class, educated, non-christian white males. 
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I suspect the primary distinguishing factor is education.  Anecdotal, but I don’t think it’s a reach that those who are interested in politics and debate have a reservoir of education to work with.  That’s why folks on this board tend to be anti-Trump.  Upper class white men are well represented here.  I think Christians are fairly well represented, too.  But, those with low education are robust in this country, especially rural areas, but are few and far between here.  Therein lies the difference.

 
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