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Is this forum still just a liberal echo chamber?

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

My wife and I loved that show, so I bought the entire series.  RIP Leo. 

Loved him as an actor in that show.  Just so well written when Sorkin was there and a great cast.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

Loved him as an actor in that show.  Just so well written when Sorkin was there and a great cast.

My wife says it was great because of some of the quirks of the characters and I believe it was the first show where they do the walk and talk and that added to its uniqueness. 

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I got at least 10 comments directed today directed at me personally.  The cesspool is back.  

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3 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

I got at least 10 comments directed today directed at me personally.  The cesspool is back.  

I got more than that a few nights ago...I make one comment today and was called out by Joe.  Get over it Jon.

 

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2 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

:Smacksforehead:

I’ve seen worse than my “you go girl” aimed at me and others.   I’m sure you have as well. 

Point being you didn’t see me worsting a post claiming about how unfair it is and only mentioned it after yet another complaint.

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21 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

I got more than that a few nights ago...I make one comment today and was called out by Joe.  Get over it Jon.

 

The problem is that you think people calling you out for posting speculation as fact is a personal attack.  It’s not, it’s simply a requirement of having a logical discussion. 

But on a personal note, you play the victim pretty hard so calling Jon out for it is pretty rich. 

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47 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

3 minutes to reply.  lol 

He’s slipping. 

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Can the title be changed to reflect what this forum really is "Embarrassed Trump Is President Echo Chamber"

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23 hours ago, sho nuff said:

We get that it’s ridiculous that rightfully calling Trump a racist (based on his words and actions) makes people want to vote for him more...and then get mad when people say you are ok with supporting a racist.

I think Democrats have cheapened the word racist in this country to the point where most people don’t even blink an eye when the label is thrown at them.  It’s really absurd actually when you think about, but I’m sure you won’t.

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1 minute ago, Widbil83 said:

I think Democrats have cheapened the word racist in this country to the point where most people don’t even blink an eye when the label is thrown at them.  It’s really absurd actually when you think about, but I’m sure you won’t.

Thought about it and would love any example of what you are saying it being cheapened?

 

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6 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Thought about it and would love any example of what you are saying it being cheapened?

 

Racists are a dime a dozen now.

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Since I don’t ever hear it IRL, every time someone on this forum calls Trump a racist, I immediately skip to the next post. 

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22 hours ago, sho nuff said:

I got more than that a few nights ago...I make one comment today and was called out by Joe.  Get over it Jon.

 

Log shows you last got a warning on Jan 3 with no time off asking you not to use just the :lmao: emoji by itself.

Your last warning before that was in October of 2018.  

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1 minute ago, FBG Moderator said:

Log shows you last got a warning on Jan 3 with no time off asking you not to use just the :lmao: emoji by itself.

Your last warning before that was in October of 2018.  

Can I ask a question?  Why don't you ban obvious trolls?  Like when someone with 0 posts starts posting in the political forum of a fantasy football site and immediately starts in on the same nonsense that got their alias banned, why let them continue?

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1 hour ago, avoiding injuries said:

Since I don’t ever hear it IRL, every time someone on this forum calls Trump a racist, I immediately skip to the next post. 

so you're your own echo chamber?

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5 minutes ago, FBG Moderator said:

Log shows you last got a warning on Jan 3 with no time off asking you not to use just the :lmao: emoji by itself.

Your last warning before that was in October of 2018.  

I didn’t say a warning.  I said called out by Joe.  So not sure what you are saying here but ok.

Also that warning was comical...given my use of the emoji was to laugh at a joke someone had posted.

Edited by sho nuff

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11 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Can I ask a question?  Why don't you ban obvious trolls?  Like when someone with 0 posts starts posting in the political forum of a fantasy football site and immediately starts in on the same nonsense that got their alias banned, why let them continue?

McJose?

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2 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

McJose?

It's Reg Llama of Brixton this week.  What did the last alias do to get suspended?

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24 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

I didn’t say a warning.  I said called out by Joe.  So not sure what you are saying here but ok.

Also that warning was comical...given my use of the emoji was to laugh at a joke someone had posted.

Please whine less. 

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1 minute ago, FBG Moderator said:

Please whine less. 

I don’t believe I was whining about it actually, but thanks.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

I don’t believe I was whining about it actually, but thanks.

No one ever thinks they're whining. Thanks for stopping. 

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10 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

An argument for putting people you most strongly disagree with on ignore so that you don't end up in an echo chamber:

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/939568962555150336

Morning Edition had a segment in this same vain today.  First Link on Shankar's profile...his podcast is really good too.

Why Partisanship Changes How People React To Noncontroversial Statements

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10 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

An argument for putting people you most strongly disagree with on ignore so that you don't end up in an echo chamber:

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/939568962555150336

That's interesting @Maurile Tremblay  I'll have to think about that. 

I'm generally opposed to the idea as I have a good number of people in my real life who I see surround themselves with mostly people just like them and I don't think it's good for them. So I'm against blocking out the people that think differently. But there's a scale. Blocking extremists is different than blocking reasonable people not like you. Does Noah have insight on how to draw the line?

Another thing I've seen on our board is posters that have a generally bad reputation as an extremist and be someone likely that others might want to block will sometimes post something very valuable. And I worry that I'd miss that or have an incomplete picture of the person. I suppose that has to be weighed against the negatives too. 

Good stuff to think about. 

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4 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's interesting @Maurile Tremblay  I'll have to think about that. 

I'm generally opposed to the idea as I have a good number of people in my real life who I see surround themselves with mostly people just like them and I don't think it's good for them. So I'm against blocking out the people that think differently. But there's a scale. Blocking extremists is different than blocking reasonable people not like you. Does Noah have insight on how to draw the line?

Another thing I've seen on our board is posters that have a generally bad reputation as an extremist and be someone likely that others might want to block will sometimes post something very valuable. And I worry that I'd miss that or have an incomplete picture of the person. I suppose that has to be weighed against the negatives too. 

Good stuff to think about. 

This is how I feel also. Trying to get an understanding of how the other side feels and why they feel that way is an important factor in trying to wrap my head around what's happening in this country. The 'line' you talk about is what I need to work on. I've always been against blocking people. Just seemed kind of like admitting they got under my skin and I'm bowing out. Always felt like I'm awarding the trolls a victory. Getting under peoples' skin is what they wake up every day trying to do. But I know I'd have about 75% less suspensions here if I'd just block the trolls. My responses to them is usually what makes me cross the line. But I'd really hate to start blocking anyone with a different opinion. All that does is serve to make myself totally closed minded.

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11 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

An argument for putting people you most strongly disagree with on ignore so that you don't end up in an echo chamber:

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/939568962555150336

"Tribalism is what creates a bubble". 

Yep which is why I've never cared for cliques even though I was considered to be "in crowd".  I'm a lone wolf, like McQuaid. 

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19 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

This is how I feel also. Trying to get an understanding of how the other side feels and why they feel that way is an important factor in trying to wrap my head around what's happening in this country. The 'line' you talk about is what I need to work on. I've always been against blocking people. Just seemed kind of like admitting they got under my skin and I'm bowing out. Always felt like I'm awarding the trolls a victory. Getting under peoples' skin is what they wake up every day trying to do. But I know I'd have about 75% less suspensions here if I'd just block the trolls. My responses to them is usually what makes me cross the line. But I'd really hate to start blocking anyone with a different opinion. All that does is serve to make myself totally closed minded.

Just an observation and I mean this sincerely and I hope it's not offensive. And it should be said my notebook is probably the worst of anyone's. But I've never had the impression you cared much about understanding the other side. That's good to do know you do. 

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Just now, Joe Bryant said:

Just an observation and I mean this sincerely and I hope it's not offensive. And it should be said my notebook is probably the worst of anyone's. But I've never had the impression you cared much about understanding the other side. That's good to do know you do. 

Full disclosure, this presidency has totally changed my political 'personality'. With both the Bush and Obama administrations, I had a very open mind. I even voted for Bush in 2000. And was very open to the other side's opinion. This president represents all the things I was taught to despise. Racism, hatred, division, lack of humanity, etc. I really struggle having respect for those who support those things. I still try to read their posts and understand how they feel about policies. There was a time when a world leader separating families and throwing children in cages, without even having a plan to reunite them, would cause outrage with 99% of Americans. Or mocking a cripple. These weren't partisan issues. The way bigotry and cruelty and dishonesty is normalized and acceptable now really turns my stomach. I'm still trying to come to grips with the fact that this is America in 2019. I struggle and I admit it.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

An argument for putting people you most strongly disagree with on ignore so that you don't end up in an echo chamber:

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/939568962555150336

Quote

 

In other words, blocking extremists doesn't CREATE an intellectual bubble. It PREVENTS intellectual bubbles. TRIBALISM is what creates bubbles.

Therefore, in order to keep an open mind, I urge you to either block or ignore all extremists from tribes you aren't part of. Doing so will allow the moderate, reasonable voices of that tribe to reach your ears. And you will gain a more balanced worldview.

- I think this guy was dealing with a different class of individuals to be fair ("Nazis") but the point holds.

I find some of the Trump viewpoints useful in that they are typically representative of exactly what the administration and the RW blogosphere are saying, and in fact sometimes they presage it.

And I think also that there is nothing that Trump and far right extremists would like than for some of one POV to stop talking to others of theirs. 

The problem IMO board wise and also nationally are those who are not being intellectually honest in their discussions. Prove a point and they claim ignorance or they stop replying rather than conceding the point. Then they come back and make the exact same claim.

And the "TDS" and "NPC" usage is disturbing. It automatically classifies people as incapable of being rational - they are 'deranged' (TDS) or not real (NPC) - and if you think people are crazy or false/fake, then you can never listen to them. And there are extremist sites and voices, and a president, who push just this.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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36 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Full disclosure, this presidency has totally changed my political 'personality'. With both the Bush and Obama administrations, I had a very open mind. I even voted for Bush in 2000. And was very open to the other side's opinion. This president represents all the things I was taught to despise. Racism, hatred, division, lack of humanity, etc. I really struggle having respect for those who support those things. I still try to read their posts and understand how they feel about policies. There was a time when a world leader separating families and throwing children in cages, without even having a plan to reunite them, would cause outrage with 99% of Americans. Or mocking a cripple. These weren't partisan issues. The way bigotry and cruelty and dishonesty is normalized and acceptable now really turns my stomach. I'm still trying to come to grips with the fact that this is America in 2019. I struggle and I admit it.

I think you make a very fair point here and I understand your position.  Given that we came from a political climate where if you didn't support an Obama policy you were either a birther or a racist (not speaking to you specifically here), it has impact the authenticity of your position in many peoples minds.  There really is a fire in the crowded theater and you're right to proclaim that, but understand why there may be deaf ears to that. 

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7 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

 Given that we came from a political climate where if you didn't support an Obama policy you were either a birther or a racist 

 

We did?

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4 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

I think you make a very fair point here and I understand your position.  Given that we came from a political climate where if you didn't support an Obama policy you were either a birther or a racist (not speaking to you specifically here), it has impact the authenticity of your position in many peoples minds.  There really is a fire in the crowded theater and you're right to proclaim that, but understand why there may be deaf ears to that. 

I don't quite have that recollection of the Obama years. When their were certain opinions expressed (birtherism is a great example) of course the word racist got thrown around. A lot of the hatred for him stemmed from the fact that he was black. That is undeniable. That's not to say that disagreeing with his policies made you a racist. When he said that Travon could have been anyone's son, the right blew a gasket. And accused him of being racist because Travon was black. Well, it turns out his killer followed that up with a rash of more crimes and mental instability. Obama was called a racist a muslim and many other things that were totally based on bigotry. I agree that vhis presidency is what made things boil over to the point that a guy like Donald Trump could be elected president. But that's a sad reflection on a big part of this country.

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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I don't quite have that recollection of the Obama years. When their were certain opinions expressed (birtherism is a great example) of course the word racist got thrown around. A lot of the hatred for him stemmed from the fact that he was black. That is undeniable. That's not to say that disagreeing with his policies made you a racist. When he said that Travon could have been anyone's son, the right blew a gasket. And accused him of being racist because Travon was black. Well, it turns out his killer followed that up with a rash of more crimes and mental instability. Obama was called a racist a muslim and many other things that were totally based on bigotry. I agree that vhis presidency is what made things boil over to the point that a guy like Donald Trump could be elected president. But that's a sad reflection on a big part of this country.

Interesting that you bring this up.  I never understood why birtherism = racism.  I mean birthers could be racist, but they don't have to be.  I see this along the lines of saying Mulah is anti-semite because she doesn't support a pro-Isreali PAC.  Sure there are anti-semites that share her belief, but that doesn't make her one.

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12 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Interesting that you bring this up.  I never understood why birtherism = racism.  I mean birthers could be racist, but they don't have to be.  I see this along the lines of saying Mulah is anti-semite because she doesn't support a pro-Isreali PAC.  Sure there are anti-semites that share her belief, but that doesn't make her one.

I thought you bolded my sentence because of the misspelling of 'there/their'. lol 

Birtherism was definitely a racist belief. It was Donald Trump doing what Donald Trump does. He's black, I bet he was born in Kenya. To deny birtherism was racist is living with blinders on.

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27 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

We did?

No...we didn't.

 

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

Just an observation and I mean this sincerely and I hope it's not offensive. And it should be said my notebook is probably the worst of anyone's. But I've never had the impression you cared much about understanding the other side. That's good to do know you do. 

Something just clicked with me as my periodic curiosity brought me back to the thread.  I think we're in a time where notebooks could be the best of the best and it wouldn't matter because of the clearly obvious line and change of direction established by this administration.  It is significantly over the line for many of us who, up until now, have been relatively open minded.  People want to normalize what's going on with this administration for whatever selfish reason, but the reality is, there is nothing normal about it.  Normally, there is a spirited debate about policy that occurs.  People can agree to disagree, but not here.  I can state my case on what a joke I think the tax bill is and is proving to be while gobirds or don't noonan or whomever laudes it's successes.  That's subjective stuff that gets batted around 24x7x365. 

However, for a lot of us, there are certain objective things that Trump and his supporters are attempting to make subjective and a great many of us have zero tolerance for those things.  Unfortunately, those things are the things that are talked about the most and with the most passion because of the potential consequences.  The struggle you see around here most is around the attempt to make those objective truths into something subjective.  There is no "other side" in terms of that lens.  It's right/wrong.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Something just clicked with me as my periodic curiosity brought me back to the thread.  I think we're in a time where notebooks could be the best of the best and it wouldn't matter because of the clearly obvious line and change of direction established by this administration.  It is significantly over the line for many of us who, up until now, have been relatively open minded.  People want to normalize what's going on with this administration for whatever selfish reason, but the reality is, there is nothing normal about it.  Normally, there is a spirited debate about policy that occurs.  People can agree to disagree, but not here.  I can state my case on what a joke I think the tax bill is and is proving to be while gobirds or don't noonan or whomever laudes it's successes.  That's subjective stuff that gets batted around 24x7x365. 

However, for a lot of us, there are certain objective things that Trump and his supporters are attempting to make subjective and a great many of us have zero tolerance for those things.  Unfortunately, those things are the things that are talked about the most and with the most passion because of the potential consequences.  The struggle you see around here most is around the attempt to make those objective truths into something subjective.  There is no "other side" in terms of that lens.  It's right/wrong.

This has echos of what @TobiasFunke and @Henry Ford have said at times.  There is an attack on objective truth by the Trump administration and those actively supporting it.  Where is the room for reasonable discourse there?

Edited by Slapdash
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21 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I thought you bolded my sentence because of the misspelling of 'there/their'. lol 

Birtherism was definitely a racist belief. It was Donald Trump doing what Donald Trump does. He's black, I bet he was born in Kenya. To deny birtherism was racist is living with blinders on.

I just wouldn't go that far.  While it has a strong correlation to racism, it also has a strong correlation to partyism and to being white.

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1 minute ago, Slapdash said:

This has echos of what @TobiasFunke and @Henry Ford have said at times.  There is an attack of objective truth by the Trump administration and those actively supporting it.  Where is the room for reasonable discourse there?

There's nothing unreasonable about being unwavering.

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1 minute ago, Slapdash said:

This has echos of what @TobiasFunke and @Henry Ford have said at times.  There is an attack of objective truth by the Trump administration and those actively supporting it.  Where is the room for reasonable discourse there?

I wouldn't go that far.

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Just now, BassNBrew said:

I wouldn't go that far.

I would...they have denied basic facts many times.

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10 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

 

11 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

I wouldn't go that far.

I would...they have denied basic facts many times.

 

There is an attack of objective truth by the Trump administration

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1 minute ago, BassNBrew said:

There is an attack of objective truth by the Trump administration

Yes...and whats the rebuttal?  I think those saying that can very easily show where the administration has attacked objective truth.

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1 minute ago, BassNBrew said:

There is an attack of objective truth by the Trump administration

Thanks for pointing it out...eventually

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21 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Something just clicked with me as my periodic curiosity brought me back to the thread.  I think we're in a time where notebooks could be the best of the best and it wouldn't matter because of the clearly obvious line and change of direction established by this administration.  It is significantly over the line for many of us who, up until now, have been relatively open minded.  People want to normalize what's going on with this administration for whatever selfish reason, but the reality is, there is nothing normal about it.  Normally, there is a spirited debate about policy that occurs.  People can agree to disagree, but not here.  I can state my case on what a joke I think the tax bill is and is proving to be while gobirds or don't noonan or whomever laudes it's successes.  That's subjective stuff that gets batted around 24x7x365. 

However, for a lot of us, there are certain objective things that Trump and his supporters are attempting to make subjective and a great many of us have zero tolerance for those things.  Unfortunately, those things are the things that are talked about the most and with the most passion because of the potential consequences.  The struggle you see around here most is around the attempt to make those objective truths into something subjective.  There is no "other side" in terms of that lens.  It's right/wrong.

The knife cuts both ways and from your side you are only seeing one sharp end.  The tax bill thread is a perfect example of something that isn't debatable here that should be.  You just repeated the echo by saying it's "proving to be" while the other side just "laudes it's success".  You just can't help yourself.

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13 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

I wouldn't go that far.

I would.

You can start with crowd size from the very first days.  It has been unending since then.  Numbers just blatantly made up.  As clear as calling the sky brown and trying to defend it.  How can anyone be expected to have a discussion when basic and undeniable facts are pushed aside for complete untruths?  And, more importantly, those lies are then ignored by supporters as if it's not a big deal.

You'll see questions asked here "how do you disputes this?" when something like the above comes up and then it's nothing but crickets even though the posters are still around spouting off other thoughts and replies to something unrelated.

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